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Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

L-2

IS THIS WHAT I COME BACK TO? It's a real shame this was not posted one post later, because then it'd have been post #666... time to read what happened for me to get L-2'd

AND DON'T TURBOLYNCH ME YOU MONSTERS

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

scumreads

Marshmallow Marshall
for so many reasons. just today they voted to lynch Gandhi with the only reason being that Gandhi disappeared at the end of D2? which is totally unfair to Gandhi imo because they have been nothing but active and helpful and then swooped in at the last second to help hammer Shadow. Marshmallow is also going back and forth on their reads of 2b, and also is avoiding giving any kind of scumreads. i hate wishy washy players. it was the same with Shadow. our job is to lynch mafia, so scumreads are one of the most helpful things you can offer as town. if you're wrong then you're wrong but at least try to give us something. ANYWAY all this plus elijah pushing Marshmallow on D2 leads me to believe elijah might've gotten a red check on Marsh.

Oliwaz144
i don't have much to go off from their predecessor either i just need to see more before i come to a better conclusion. but jovi seemed scummy to me so that is carrying over to my opinion of oliwaz. as i mentioned before i appreciate them catching up on everything but other than their first post everything else hasn't been much of a contribution

townreads

Pqwerty
i really have no reason to not believe their miller claim. #1 on my town list for sure

2b55b5g
she helped hammer Shadow, made this very townie post, and was already sus of Marshmallow since D2. i don't have a lot of hard evidence for my townread on 2b, but i feel like it's mostly the way i interpret the tone of their posts. mostly calm, logical, and helpful. never defensive. 2b just wants to solve the game which is the most town thing you can do lol

Minimania
mini was immediately skeptical of shadow's claim, was townread by elijah HARD which leads me to believe if elijah didnt get a red check on Marshmallow n1, he definitely got a green check on mini n1, and mini has been skeptical of Marsh since D2

Grilyon2
honestly i thought grilyon died already lmao i just realized they're still alive. i don't see their inactivity as scummy at all though. i mean just take a look at their most recent post from D2. they hit the nail on the head with all of their reads and ultimately ended up voting for Shadow. i hope Grilyon comes back and gives us more insight on D3.

Nuclear Gandhi
no longer my top townread, but definitely still a townread. i talked about this a bit in my read for Marshmallow, but Gandhi has been nothing but helpful and helped hammer Shadow. this last post where they said they didn't feel like catching up was weird but the still voted correctly regardless so i can forgive it. hoping to see more from them today tho

neutral

Gikkle
i townread gikkle until their weird claim on D2. i do believe their explanation for the claim though but now that i see Gikkle is a very brilliant player, i wouldn't put it past them to do some kind of meta reverse psychology thing lol. this is all just conspiracy tho i definitely lean town for Gikkle but i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up winning the game as mafia and baffled us all

You seem to forget Mafia does not know who the Traitor is, only the Traitor knows who the Mafia is. About Gandhi, he appeared helpful at first, and then disappeared with his townread without saying anything more; as for his vote on Shadow, it means nothing, because if he is mafia, he did not know Shadow was a teammate and thus could have been going for a mislynch. Thus, at this point, I am not "voting to lynch Gandhi", but rather pressuring him and waiting for the reaction (I haven't read the last page yet so I haven't seen his reaction if there was one). And not only is this completely fair, but it also is an attempt to get a read on, i.e. to solve, Gandhi's slot.
As for "being wishy washy" and not having strong scumreads for now, well hey, my most not sincere apologies for not literally making up scumreads I don't believe in from thin air XD. At risk of sounding like I'm OMGUSing you, I have a hard time seeing this coming from town: you're blaming me for both not having scumreads and for trying to get some (if there is basis to do so). Cognitive dissonance detected?

Oliwaz's contribution is really low, but he just replaced in, and what I've seen from him isn't out of his meta. That absolutely doesn't mean he's town, but I wouldn't straight up accuse him of being scum, at least for now; that being said, if by tomorrow, he hasn't contributed more, he should absolutely be on the chopping block.

Agreed on pqwerty at this point, it gets less and less likely they're scum

Minimania is very very very probably Elijah's check, so he's my top town without question

2b: again, helping hammer Shadow means absolutely nothing. As for having stated suspicion on me, that sucks, but I guess from town!you's point of view it makes sense if you scumread me. The only big thing in here (and I hadn't picked up on it before) is the "super townie post" about the amount of mafia in response to Shadow; it does indeed look like a real question sparked by the circumstances, so that looks good for her. I'm a little surprised you haven't mentioned the great list of reads she made on very early D1, because that was my main reason to townread her - and yes, I ended up townreading her after ISOing her, which is just after I said she was a ??? to me earlier today.
TL;DR: 2b is probably town, I just don't necessarily agree with all the reasons you stated

Grilyon is fine enough, although AGAIN, hammering shadow means nothing; the "nail on the head" post does look pretty good

Gandhi: already explained my thoughts in this post, he's "awaiting a read" at the moment to me

Gikkle is skilled, and I believe a detailed analysis with further flips and all will be needed to correctly read him later - pretty much in agreement with what you said.

Okay, so my conclusion on you is the following: despite the fact I have a hard time seeing how you could think the way you do about me, I recognize I might be biased in this lol, and considering the rest of the post is a very fine analysis with detailed thought progression that overall makes sense (despite the flaw I pointed out about Mafia not knowing Shadow was the traitor), my early townread on you is reaffirmed and pretty high.

Which leads me to this list of reads (the explanations were pretty much given above):

TOWN

Minimania
Pqwerty

Buzzerbee
2b

Grilyon

NULL --- Gikkle, Oliverz (this one will decay to scumreads if no significant contribution soon) --- NULL (also note that considering the amount of townreads above and the fact I am quite confident in the first four, the nulls have high scum equity)

Gandhi (highly subject to change)

SCUM

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

▼Hidden text

scumreads

Marshmallow Marshall
for so many reasons. just today they voted to lynch Gandhi with the only reason being that Gandhi disappeared at the end of D2? which is totally unfair to Gandhi imo because they have been nothing but active and helpful and then swooped in at the last second to help hammer Shadow. Marshmallow is also going back and forth on their reads of 2b, and also is avoiding giving any kind of scumreads. i hate wishy washy players. it was the same with Shadow. our job is to lynch mafia, so scumreads are one of the most helpful things you can offer as town. if you're wrong then you're wrong but at least try to give us something. ANYWAY all this plus elijah pushing Marshmallow on D2 leads me to believe elijah might've gotten a red check on Marsh.

Oliwaz144
i don't have much to go off from their predecessor either i just need to see more before i come to a better conclusion. but jovi seemed scummy to me so that is carrying over to my opinion of oliwaz. as i mentioned before i appreciate them catching up on everything but other than their first post everything else hasn't been much of a contribution

townreads

Pqwerty
i really have no reason to not believe their miller claim. #1 on my town list for sure

2b55b5g
she helped hammer Shadow, made this very townie post, and was already sus of Marshmallow since D2. i don't have a lot of hard evidence for my townread on 2b, but i feel like it's mostly the way i interpret the tone of their posts. mostly calm, logical, and helpful. never defensive. 2b just wants to solve the game which is the most town thing you can do lol

Minimania
mini was immediately skeptical of shadow's claim, was townread by elijah HARD which leads me to believe if elijah didnt get a red check on Marshmallow n1, he definitely got a green check on mini n1, and mini has been skeptical of Marsh since D2

Grilyon2
honestly i thought grilyon died already lmao i just realized they're still alive. i don't see their inactivity as scummy at all though. i mean just take a look at their most recent post from D2. they hit the nail on the head with all of their reads and ultimately ended up voting for Shadow. i hope Grilyon comes back and gives us more insight on D3.

Nuclear Gandhi
no longer my top townread, but definitely still a townread. i talked about this a bit in my read for Marshmallow, but Gandhi has been nothing but helpful and helped hammer Shadow. this last post where they said they didn't feel like catching up was weird but the still voted correctly regardless so i can forgive it. hoping to see more from them today tho

neutral

Gikkle
i townread gikkle until their weird claim on D2. i do believe their explanation for the claim though but now that i see Gikkle is a very brilliant player, i wouldn't put it past them to do some kind of meta reverse psychology thing lol. this is all just conspiracy tho i definitely lean town for Gikkle but i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up winning the game as mafia and baffled us all

Whahahat?! Im scum for arriving late?
And you townread a person who was so low in activity you thougth they are  .. dead?!
Oh..  wasnt grilyon your scumread ? (https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 46#p795446)
And now hes your townread?!I
By the end of d2, bon jovi made a whopping 4 (Four) posts. You pointed that out yourself. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 72#p795872
So... maybe you wanna finally explain your read on me? And/or bj??
Because we are into d3 and you still didnt. But are happy to attack lhf like me.
!VOTE BUZZERBEEB

That... isn't what BB said. Lol. Now this is basically just OMGUS - and while this is far from being out of your meta (as town or scum), the fact you added that he scumreads you for "coming in late", which appears nowhere in his post, is weird. It's not like the explanations weren't given here, so this feels dishonest.

Edit to my list of reads of one post ago: Oliverz get lumped into the scumreads, below Gandhi. And since Gandhi pressure isn't exactly happening right now because y'all seem to be out for my own blood (...), there's no reason not to vote Oliverz

!vote Oliwaz144

(for the record, Oliverz = Oliwaz, I just usually know him under that name)

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

My first read: MM is scum.
Im sad Gikkle dropped the Mason claim. Either he thinks im stupid or hes scum

do you mind explaining your scumread on MM?

A. Listen to the death. BOTH night kills scumread MM. If it would have been just one of em, you could say "coincidence." Both? Thats a system.
B. Lumi would have been only killed by n1 by somebody who knows her. Thats either Gikkle or MM.
C. He is playing different from his Town meta.

Thats it for now, but im sure there is more.

A. Elijah did not scumread me anymore after I posted my conclusion on him close-ish to EoD2. See spoiler here for the conclusion:

▼Hidden text

Also, I am not big into worldbuilding right now because there's little to work with, but if I had to give scummates to Elijah, it'd be among the inactives: it somewhat feels like he's distracting from their inactivity by calling Buzzerbee out for "being busy" (despite it being completely legitimate and despite Buzzer being honestly contributive). As for Pqwerty, I am debating whether or not he'd sheep Elijah THAT openly if he were scum with him. I think it's not impossible (especially knowing Elijah). And if you're going to say "b-but Pqwerty claimed anti-town town role!", that legit means nothing at all. Scum can do that, and may even have interest in doing so to 1) get towncred and 2) excuse their survival on the long run. Of course, it's not scummy in itself, but it's also not towny, and I feel like people are giving him a free pass for it.

when have you ever done that as Mafia. I have literally never done anything like you suggest, and I have never witnessed anyone else doing it (except in the mod)

I actually think Marshmallow Marshall is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense. Normally he's the one defending me from a lynch, now he's pushing for mine. I think Marshmallow is 100% Mafia.

You know what? PLOT TWIST

I do not think Elijah is scum anymore: he actually believes in his defense and thinks he's being pushed for bad reasons. This reasoning holds quite a lot of meta water, considering that is indeed what usually has happened; he believes I would not genuinely push him for being the way he is with his reads or lack thereof because... see next part

I think I know why I am being voted, and will briefly explain myself:

1. I believe people are voting me for not having "any reads". To some degree this is true, but this unfortunate situation is not due to lack of trying, believe me. It's just that nearly every post this game looks wholly NAI, they're "logical" posts which could come from any alignment. I am used to people being more emotional in games, getting angry over getting scum read, insanely toxic TvT fights wherein both of the two townies are trying to kill each other, etc. None of this happened this game except for when I pushed Minimania. I've legit skimmed (I haven't read in depth, I may do that at some later point), pretty much through every post in the game and nearly all of them have a scummish-null vibe to them.

2. I am very defensive. Yes, I am very defensive especially towards MM and Gandhi, because as stated above, they are calling my play **** and saying I don't have intent to scum hunt, which is patently false. I absolutely do have intent and even attempted to scum hunt, you just don't see me flooding the thread with nonsense over my MANY attempts.

Please reply to this post, it is imperative that if you vote me 1) and you are town 2) (but even if you are Mafia, then you can get outed and lynched) that you reply so I can convince you of my towniness.

He reads emotions and "intent" under a very specific meaning, because that is how he learnt the game, basically (we started playing more or less at the same time, and were around very flamboyant players, such as Distorted for those who may know him). On the contrary, he seems to think (in general, not just in this game) that behavior in itself is 99 % NAI because "both sides can do X". I did not really pay attention to this early on, considering there was nothing to make me think of it (everyone was pretty tame) and considering I thought he could RVS and you know, play more or less normally and hop on people for slight behavioral tells, considering he did in the past iirc? But with Minimania being the only one giving a reaction that really had emotion "pierce through the posts", so to speak, he immediatly got a solid read on him (right or wrong, it's still a read with reasons that somewhat make sense, and it's definetly the kind of reasons Elijah would believe in as town).

No no, just that you didn't intend to scum hunt we never called your play ****; besides, understand that without the new perspective given by your read on Minimania (see above paragraph), it's hard to see the intent to scumhunt when you 1) don't give scumreads that don't just look like pure OMGUS (which, for people such as @shadowsedge, is this) and 2) don't really question people, i.e. don't even appear to be trying to get reads. It took me the specific intent to reevaulate the case on you by including your recent replies in the equation to come to this conclusion; thus, I really don't think either myself or Gandhi are to blame lol.

!Vote Onjit

It is time to get some juice out of here. Funposting on D1 is fine, especially in the relaxed meta this site has, but we're far beyond that stage now. @onjit, we require your reads.

Also, how do you link to a specific post here? I swear I did it before, but I forgot. I would have just put a link to it lol, since I want the context. Here are Elijah's posts that come right after what I put in the spoiler above:

▼Hidden text

!vote 2b255gb

by the way, can everyone agree to these:

a) we should all follow some kind of majority vote. for example, follow my vote
b) we must always be prepared to hammer, else we cannot get proper information out of someone.
c) get 2b255gb to L-1. if someone hammers, well, we'll have the info that they hammered.

I actually think it's ShadowsEdge. Like, we can start with any of these null-marks and push them. ShadowsEdge, 2b, they're all good pushes.

...by the way - just to make sure - I hope I am not coming across as some kind of **** or something right now. You see me attacking MM for "calling my play ****", but literally at more or less the same time we're playing SC2 together and having fun with no ill will/tension between us (mafia is such a strange game), so if I'm being too personal or something - it is NOT personal, it's just the game lmao, outside of the game I can be quite a chill dude

His scumread on me is gone lol. I would have had absolutely no reason to kill him if I had been scum; if anything, I could have pocketed him from that point.

B. Lumi is famous lmao, also I think they looked solvy enough? That being said, I can see you actually believing this, so I won't call you scum for this specifically.

C. uh... no - and this is a very easy attack that is hard to disprove (just as it is to prove), which is really meh lol

D. His reaction to me scumreading him.

Asking you to explain your unexplained read is not scummy, it's my job lmao (and everyone's in the town). Plus, you are AGAIN not explaining how my reaction was scummy. Scumpoints to you - if you believed in it, why not just... give the arguments right away? I know you like to GIVE THEM IN CAPITAL, BOLDED LETTERS when you actually have them.

!Vote MM
Lets poke, pile and pause to see what happens.
Maybe a cfd or some theatre?
I advise everyone to follow.

Erm, I might be biased again, but this legit reads as "Mmmmmmmm, a mislynch, yummy. All aboard the lynch train!" lmao.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I lost interest and dropped this game out of my mind something like 30h into Day2 or so; so I've some amount of catching up to do. Probably best if I start from SoD2 with the 2 flips in mind, I'll write my thoughts along the way.

- Dead cop had only night1 to do investigations, and the first thing he did was [quote https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 88#p795588 ]
Assuming no further indications of Elijah having checked someone else, like a sudden heavy townread for example, then this should be a good vote.

Given that 284+291+295+320 show that he could state reasons to sus BB but not the same for MM, while voting MM first and foremost (the BB sus looks like more of a afterthought), says to me that he had a red check on MM while the BB read is only there to not make it too obvious he's a Cop.

https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewtopic.php?pid=795609#p795609+307 could indicate Elijah having a green check on minimania. But the "almost" and "99%" parts make it less likely to me.

With this in mind, this might be conf biasing but 302 looks a bit dishonest. I mean the Lumi part. Lumi's main/only real meta tell is level of confidence, so Lumi being so in their town range while being a potentially strong asset - Idk why would someone who's so familiar with Lumi as MM is be happy that Lumi's dead.

On the flip side though, 305 makes little sense if he knew MM to be wolf? Not sure. Either way, Elijah's check was either MM wolf or Minimania town. 50/50 imho

311+312+331 could indicate Elijah having checked Lumi or BB instead? I wish he was more obvious, but at the very least he was obvious enough for the wolves to know he's a cop for whatever reason - so I don't think it's one of these.

MM is someone who knows better than almost anyone else that I sometimes stir up the pot for reactions and content. This this end, 327 is a bit weird reaction because I'd assume my intent there should've been obvious to him.

334 - Imagine a dead cop having in his ISO a post where he calls you 100% Mafia, in caps.

ngl, upon seeing 336+knowing that there's multiple new and very active slots to read later, kinda makes me want to procrastinate a bit more. Maybe a bit later, maybe tommorow, we'll see.

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

I think the 99 % town on Minimania is to avoid being a terribly obvious cop. He insisted on it way too much - and the only real alternative would be that he would have checked Lumi on N1, which... is not entirely impossible, but also just less likely considering the posts about Mini and the insistance he had. As for your supposition of Elijah red checking me, do you SERIOUSLY see him not push me with the might of a thousand suns, and even worse, ENTIRELY LET ME GO ONCE I STOP PUSHING HIM? If you answer "yes" to this, you are absolutely not being honest, because you too know him lol.

Context: Lumi completely fooled me two games in a row as scum. I absolutely have a hard time reading them because... they're good lmao. I was not really glad to see them die though, since we rarely get to play together anymore

With that in mind, do you actually have reasons to scumread me (by this, I mean aside from your (wrong) interpretation of Elijah's posts) anymore? Also, I'd like to see your general reads once you're caught up (but I don't necessarily expect it to be instant anyway).

Still on the fence about you. I do buy the "no more motivation" excuse, though - let's call it a metaread/just knowing you lol.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

It looks like typical Oliver behavior.

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

It looks like typical Oliver behavior.

At this point though, I'm wondering what scum Oliver's behavior would look like if not like this. I can understand being wrong or illogical, but here, it feels like he's opportunistic, and considering his posts are wrong/bad/anything you want basically, there's NOTHING to bring an actual counterpoint to the natural conclusion that he's just evil. I guess he can defend himself and he needs to come back to do so, but for now, I have a hard time seeing it otherwise.

And I am going off for a while now.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

MM, if you're genuinely town, I'm gonna need you to show me something REALLY townie, bc as it stands, it looks like you're going to be the lynch.

I'll be honest: if, to you, the walls that come just before your posts and that EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE IGNORING (apart from Minimania, who at least acknowledged their existence, but even then...) are chopped liver, you might as well lynch me right now, because that would mean you thoroughly refuse to listen to what I have to say lol. And to be very clear: this is not my giving up at all, but rather me asking you (all) to actually address my important posts, which I feel like... noone is doing this game? Like, I expected several significant reactions to my post where I said PLOT TWIST and townread Elijah on D2, but noone felt like addressing it significantly, which is really weird. And then, I make the walls with my reads and my thoughts on basically everyone in the game, and NOONE EVEN REFERS TO IT? There's something very fishy with this, and it just feels like you've put the rope around my neck before my trial.

I attribute a lot of this to culture clash; however, Gikkle, you are not from here and have a playstyle that is very compatible with my vision of the game and with my playstyle, as far as I know. Therefore, the fact you just acted like my earlier posts don't even exist makes me suspect you

To those who want to actually read me and not just get rid of me, the posts I am talking about are at the end of page 27.

MM can we get a claim before sending you on your way?

I townread a lot of people, and so my upcoming vote on you is process of elimination.
Gikkle is leading the town. Mini is basically confirmed by mechanics. Oli was suspicious but Gikkle made a good case as to why BBJ probably wouldn't be mafia. Grilyon seems like they're hunting, especially given their first game. 2B is my Neighbor. So that leaves you/Gandhi/BB and honestly I think Gandhi/BB are townier.

Unless Gikkle and 2B are deepwolves, I think the final 2 mafia live among the three of you.

Sure, that won't be too hard and I don't think I am ever getting nightkilled lol so might as well say it, I'm just a vanilla townie. This probably won't help my case tremendously lol but I have nothing else to say.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

hot take but i'm starting to second guess Nuclear Gandhi. being busy and becoming less active is one thing but to straight up say you lost interest in the game sounds like mafia burnout, especially with such a strong town & after losing a mafia teammate

Since it really looks like I won't be alive to tell you that tomorrow: Gandhi is prone to getting burnt out as any alignment, this is NAI and should not be considered in your read on him. However, the manner in which he comes back and contributes (or doesn't) is meaningful, and that is what he should be read on (and from what I've seen, I'm not convinced he's town at all, even though it is still perfectly possible, so that'd be a light scum lean that will evolve). Please keep this in mind.

Also, I have to go for a few hours.

Nah Marshall

aight Im convinced, MM is the scum 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt

I sincerely hope that's a joke XD.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'll be honest: if, to you, the walls that come just before your posts and that EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE IGNORING (apart from Minimania, who at least acknowledged their existence, but even then...) are chopped liver, you might as well lynch me right now, because that would mean you thoroughly refuse to listen to what I have to say lol. And to be very clear: this is not my giving up at all, but rather me asking you (all) to actually address my important posts, which I feel like... noone is doing this game? Like, I expected several significant reactions to my post where I said PLOT TWIST and townread Elijah on D2, but noone felt like addressing it significantly, which is really weird. And then, I make the walls with my reads and my thoughts on basically everyone in the game, and NOONE EVEN REFERS TO IT? There's something very fishy with this, and it just feels like you've put the rope around my neck before my trial.

I attribute a lot of this to culture clash; however, Gikkle, you are not from here and have a playstyle that is very compatible with my vision of the game and with my playstyle, as far as I know. Therefore, the fact you just acted like my earlier posts don't even exist makes me suspect you

Wrt to the posts that were not the reads list - I commented on the Oliver push, didn't comment on the other ones bc I didn't think they were noteable/alignment indicative.

The reads list I didn't really comment on because I don't generally comment on reads lists unless something sticks out to me. I didn't see anything scummy or townie with your reads list, so I didn't feel the need to comment on it. Nor did it really add anything new to the conversation. Maybe if you had ended up actually scumreading Buzzer, but you didn't, so

What I want you to do - and what I ask a lot of people to do when I scumread them - is to show me your heart. It's harder to read people when they only post in wall posts every so often. If you made a lot more rapid fire posts that showed your thoughts as a conversation is happening, that would help me see how your brain is working more than a wall post which you had time to think about would (though I understand this is tough to do when you don't have a lot of time to be on). And, if you could do that by engaging in a discussion with your top scum read, that would be even better.

Iirc, you sort of did this with Elijah, and I remember hating that whole entire argument between you and him when I was reading up. I thought it definitely contained one wolf bc it looked like you were pushing an agenda and Elijah was just being pretty weird in his defense, which is why I scumread you pretty early on. But then you stopped pushing Elijah and my SR lessened a little bit. I still think the whole interaction was off but I *am* willing to give you an opportunity to prove yourself.

I love posting streams of consciousness. However, that requires a thread that has a lot of content and a reasonable amount of activity (which Elijah provided), whereas the thread now is as lively as a Martian cemetery - like, there's nothing that allows me to get into a real retroactive back-and-forth debate. Well, I guess I perhaps could if I happened to be online when another active player is online as well, but that requires stars aligning considering my time management lol.

Also, are you seriously asking me to engage in a serious, fruitful discussion with... Oliverz? xD nah, if it does happen, it looks like you'll be the chosen one here

also MM your vote history stinks
being off wagon both times is not a good look lol

Why is that so?

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So, just looking through Gandhi's ISO, I feel like I probably gave him a lot more credit than he actually deserves. Some of his posts ARE good. But there's one crucial problem with him that I'm noticing. And that is...

what said about shadow still stands though, they're super clear imho*

AllenCaspe9510, I just find their reads list extremely based lol. I love it. I can see others wouldn't, but to me it's just so pure if that makes any sense? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

...they have now voted TWO people they have town read, without ANY progression to indicate why. I talked about this earlier - 2b and Gandhi were the people I had flagged for being notably "weird" around the day 1 wagon. 2b gave a somewhat acceptable reason, and it's not like they really *TRed* Allen like Gandhi did. Gandhi did not explain, and he made known that he was willing to vote EITHER of the counterwagons (mini and Elijah). And yet he landed on Allen, who he townread.

^^^^^^^^ none of what he did is insanely hard to fake as scum, and busy/burnt out or not, he still hasn't posted a ton of stuff that could actually clear him - at this point, it's not even just scumhunting, it's also PoE because townhunting was also done in the meantime (especially since actively scummy people have been lacking).

I also hadn't noticed the votes, gonna read his ISO myself

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So, reading Gandhi's ISO, there still are posts like the one in which he blames the non-voters for not voting, and Casper is part of them - besides, he did not have a super solid townread on him beforehand. That being said, I do find it a little (a lot) weird to see stuff like this:

I wouldn't be surprised if Elijah and MM were both wolves together; because their interactions remind me of that 2020 December game where we all 3 were wolves together.
Who'd be their partner here? Anyone, just not me obviously.

when I was being called super towny before - no progression was shown. Besides, he suspected Elijah but ended up... idk, changing with the wind? There is nothing explicit about his read on Elijah, it seems to just go with the flow. And then today, his contribution is the wall in which he basically only accuses me of all the sins in the world. Wut? This definetly isn't an ISO that screams "natural progression"...

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Why is that so?

Because this is a majority only game. Meaning if you're town, being off wagon means that a lynch can't really happen without mafia wanting it to happen (well it CAN, but it'd be way harder). By not voting the main wagon, you just make it harder for town to get a town led wagon.

Mmmmmmm, but I don't think this means I should hop on wagons I don't believe in (that being said, I would have agreed to lynch Casper if I had been here, because I actually scumread him, even though I honestly don't remember why). I guess your point is somewhat fair, but it's really not something I heard so /shrug.

Also, are you seriously asking me to engage in a serious, fruitful discussion with... Oliverz? xD nah, if it does happen, it looks like you'll be the chosen one here

What did you think about my argument about Oliver?

Alright here we go:

Pretty sure Oliver is just town here?

I feel very confident pqwerty/Mini are town at this point (though godfather is still technically possible for mini, which should be remembered if we get to lylo)

And considering every possible partner, I just can't see a world with scum oliver

I don't think a Grilyon/Jovi team kills Lumi (Grilyon was viewed as town slipped by Lumi, Jovi was inactive so I doubt they really were part of the calculation for who to kill. Neither of them have real reason to be scared of Lumi, because even if people *say* they're good, Lumi's reads are totally off base at this point if this is indeed the team)
I don't think Jovi/Gandhi is likely considering how Gandhi was trying to bus Jovi day 2, and I don't think that's a play Gandhi makes with how he was already in a strong thread position.
I don't think it's both 2b and Jovi bc Shadow was pushing that as his agenda towards the latter part of day 2, and I find it unlikely he does that if they were actually both his partners
I don't think it's Buzzer and Jovi for the same reason. Shadow said it was 2 of BB/Jovi/2b. I don't think he actually puts both his partners in there.
Based on the latest by Marshmallow and Oliver, I don't think it's those two slots either. That doesn't feel like an S/S interaction.

And, if you think I'M potentially scum with Oliver, that means you think BOTH scum were inactive for the first chunk of the game! (I'm also TMIed town by Shadows bc he hard defended my slot and put me at the top of his town reads but since I'm the one saying this it won't be taken as seriously )

So honestly if Oliver's scum it means we're wrong about one of Pqwerty and Mini

I have absolutely no issue saying both scum were inactive for the first chunk of the game: it legit happened in one of my games. Besides, there's no rule saying such a thing would never happen, since inactivity is rarely related to alignment; it's just less likely to happen with scum than with town because there are more townies. You're under evaluation right now plus "Shadows TMI'd someone town" could also easily be "Shadows defended a scummate", so I won't comment on this further.

Everyone kills Lumi xD. That being said, I don't think Grilyon is scum.
Mmmm, I didn't see Gandhi try hard to lynch Jovi at all - and right now, my scum world would be Oli/Gandhi.
2b and BB: I townread both of them, but I don't think Shadows putting his actual scummates in a pool of suspects is impossible at all. It wouldn't be as if he had selected 2 scums on 2 players, after all.
I aM nOt SvS wItH oLiVeRz

Overall... I don't agree with your reasons at all. Like, zero. XD

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Mmmm, this post was longer than I wanted it to be. O well.

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

"Shadows TMI'd someone town" could also easily be "Shadows defended a scummate", so I won't comment on this further.

There's ways to distinguish that. Why dismiss the point so quickly?

Everyone kills Lumi xD. That being said, I don't think Grilyon is scum.

If you have no experience with Lumi (which I understand neither Grilyon nor Bon have), and instead see that Lumi's reads are totally off base (Lumi was clearing Grilyon), you have no reason to fear them, especially since they claimed vanilla town.

Mmmm, I didn't see Gandhi try hard to lynch Jovi at all - and right now, my scum world would be Oli/Gandhi.

It was completely unnecessary for Gandhi to apply any pressure *at all*. Gandhi was the top town that day phase. He can easily lead the lynch anywhere he wants. Leaving a vote on his team mate for half the day is not the play there.

2b and BB: I townread both of them, but I don't think Shadows putting his actual scummates in a pool of suspects is impossible at all. It wouldn't be as if he had selected 2 scums on 2 players, after all.

It's not impossible, and I didn't suggest it was impossible (for any of these, actually.). I said it was unlikely. Unless Shadow was preparing to get lynched (and thus was in anti-spew), I don't think it's like he goes out of his way to make 2/3 of his scum pool his scum buddies. It puts him in a uncomfortable position if he lives, because he has to go back on his word for whatever reason, or help push out 2 of his scum buddies. And I don't think Shadow would be keen to bus here because A) he has no way to make sure that it's okay with his scum buddies, and B) he may get night killed by his partners for being TOO correct.

Maybe It's because I'm hungry, but I really don't like this post lol. (And not because you disagree with my points )

Ehh, sure, I guess there are. That would require me to go read back again, and I honestly don't feel like it XD, but I guess you're right on this.

This is more of a point for the sake of game theory than for actual reads in this game, but generally, feared and townread players tend to get nightkilled no matter who exactly is scum, because the reactions of other players indicate there is a threat (and make the player a threat).

Gandhi's vote was barely noticeable, though, and so was the pressure. It's the kind of thing I could do to prepare anti-spew for later. As for directing the lynch, he absolutely did not need to do that: town seems to have managed to create the mislynches by itself, so why get your hands dirty when you can have a nice vote on your scummate instead? (Note that I'm not saying this proves anything, just that it doesn't make Gandhi and Oliverz not SvS.)

Oops, that's on me for being unclear. I didn't mean you said it was impossible, but rather meant that it was not even unlikely in a vacuum: it's a typical scum maneuver, actually, and it's far from uncommon to see scums put their scummates in null/scumreads while throwing townies into the mix so that it's hard to tell anything from their reads afterwards. Considering your experience with Mafia, I am pretty sure you have already seen this several times. As for Shadows not wanting to bus, he didn't need to have the intent to bus to put scummates in his scumreads. It depends on who actually gets the pressure; it's relatively easy to say "I suspect X, Y and Z, but want to lynch X" and then basically make everyone forget you even included Y and Z in there.

Go eat: make food, not war!

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Marshmallow Marshall

Member

Joined: 2022-07-06

Posts: 101

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

...fail
https://tenor.com/view/window-****-step … if-5220402