Official Everybody Edits Forums

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

"Shadows TMI'd someone town" could also easily be "Shadows defended a scummate", so I won't comment on this further.

There's ways to distinguish that. Why dismiss the point so quickly?

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Everyone kills Lumi xD. That being said, I don't think Grilyon is scum.

If you have no experience with Lumi (which I understand neither Grilyon nor Bon have), and instead see that Lumi's reads are totally off base (Lumi was clearing Grilyon), you have no reason to fear them, especially since they claimed vanilla town.

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Mmmm, I didn't see Gandhi try hard to lynch Jovi at all - and right now, my scum world would be Oli/Gandhi.

It was completely unnecessary for Gandhi to apply any pressure *at all*. Gandhi was the top town that day phase. He can easily lead the lynch anywhere he wants. Leaving a vote on his team mate for half the day is not the play there.

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

2b and BB: I townread both of them, but I don't think Shadows putting his actual scummates in a pool of suspects is impossible at all. It wouldn't be as if he had selected 2 scums on 2 players, after all.

It's not impossible, and I didn't suggest it was impossible (for any of these, actually.). I said it was unlikely. Unless Shadow was preparing to get lynched (and thus was in anti-spew), I don't think it's like he goes out of his way to make 2/3 of his scum pool his scum buddies. It puts him in a uncomfortable position if he lives, because he has to go back on his word for whatever reason, or help push out 2 of his scum buddies. And I don't think Shadow would be keen to bus here because A) he has no way to make sure that it's okay with his scum buddies, and B) he may get night killed by his partners for being TOO correct.

Maybe It's because I'm hungry, but I really don't like this post lol. (And not because you disagree with my points )

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Why is that so?

Because this is a majority only game. Meaning if you're town, being off wagon means that a lynch can't really happen without mafia wanting it to happen (well it CAN, but it'd be way harder). By not voting the main wagon, you just make it harder for town to get a town led wagon.

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Also, are you seriously asking me to engage in a serious, fruitful discussion with... Oliverz? xD nah, if it does happen, it looks like you'll be the chosen one here

What did you think about my argument about Oliver?

Pretty sure Oliver is just town here?

I feel very confident pqwerty/Mini are town at this point (though godfather is still technically possible for mini, which should be remembered if we get to lylo)

And considering every possible partner, I just can't see a world with scum oliver

I don't think a Grilyon/Jovi team kills Lumi (Grilyon was viewed as town slipped by Lumi, Jovi was inactive so I doubt they really were part of the calculation for who to kill. Neither of them have real reason to be scared of Lumi, because even if people *say* they're good, Lumi's reads are totally off base at this point if this is indeed the team)
I don't think Jovi/Gandhi is likely considering how Gandhi was trying to bus Jovi day 2, and I don't think that's a play Gandhi makes with how he was already in a strong thread position.
I don't think it's both 2b and Jovi bc Shadow was pushing that as his agenda towards the latter part of day 2, and I find it unlikely he does that if they were actually both his partners
I don't think it's Buzzer and Jovi for the same reason. Shadow said it was 2 of BB/Jovi/2b. I don't think he actually puts both his partners in there.
Based on the latest by Marshmallow and Oliver, I don't think it's those two slots either. That doesn't feel like an S/S interaction.

And, if you think I'M potentially scum with Oliver, that means you think BOTH scum were inactive for the first chunk of the game! (I'm also TMIed town by Shadows bc he hard defended my slot and put me at the top of his town reads but since I'm the one saying this it won't be taken as seriously )

So honestly if Oliver's scum it means we're wrong about one of Pqwerty and Mini

So, just looking through Gandhi's ISO, I feel like I probably gave him a lot more credit than he actually deserves. Some of his posts ARE good. But there's one crucial problem with him that I'm noticing. And that is...

Nuclear Gandhi wrote:

what said about shadow still stands though, they're super clear imho*

Nuclear Gandhi wrote:

AllenCaspe9510, I just find their reads list extremely based lol. I love it. I can see others wouldn't, but to me it's just so pure if that makes any sense? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

...they have now voted TWO people they have town read, without ANY progression to indicate why. I talked about this earlier - 2b and Gandhi were the people I had flagged for being notably "weird" around the day 1 wagon. 2b gave a somewhat acceptable reason, and it's not like they really *TRed* Allen like Gandhi did. Gandhi did not explain, and he made known that he was willing to vote EITHER of the counterwagons (mini and Elijah). And yet he landed on Allen, who he townread.

hot take but i'm starting to second guess Nuclear Gandhi. being busy and becoming less active is one thing but to straight up say you lost interest in the game sounds like mafia burnout, especially with such a strong town & after losing a mafia teammate

Oliwaz144 wrote:

Nah Marshall

aight Im convinced, MM is the scum 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Gikkle wrote:

Gikkle wrote:

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

It looks like typical Oliver behavior.

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Gikkle wrote:

Gikkle wrote:

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

It looks like typical Oliver behavior.

I lost interest and dropped this game out of my mind something like 30h into Day2 or so; so I've some amount of catching up to do. Probably best if I start from SoD2 with the 2 flips in mind, I'll write my thoughts along the way.

- Dead cop had only night1 to do investigations, and the first thing he did was [quote https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 88#p795588 ]
Assuming no further indications of Elijah having checked someone else, like a sudden heavy townread for example, then this should be a good vote.

Given that 284+291+295+320 show that he could state reasons to sus BB but not the same for MM, while voting MM first and foremost (the BB sus looks like more of a afterthought), says to me that he had a red check on MM while the BB read is only there to not make it too obvious he's a Cop.

https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewtopic.php?pid=795609#p795609+307 could indicate Elijah having a green check on minimania. But the "almost" and "99%" parts make it less likely to me.

With this in mind, this might be conf biasing but 302 looks a bit dishonest. I mean the Lumi part. Lumi's main/only real meta tell is level of confidence, so Lumi being so in their town range while being a potentially strong asset - Idk why would someone who's so familiar with Lumi as MM is be happy that Lumi's dead.

On the flip side though, 305 makes little sense if he knew MM to be wolf? Not sure. Either way, Elijah's check was either MM wolf or Minimania town. 50/50 imho

311+312+331 could indicate Elijah having checked Lumi or BB instead? I wish he was more obvious, but at the very least he was obvious enough for the wolves to know he's a cop for whatever reason - so I don't think it's one of these.

MM is someone who knows better than almost anyone else that I sometimes stir up the pot for reactions and content. This this end, 327 is a bit weird reaction because I'd assume my intent there should've been obvious to him.

334 - Imagine a dead cop having in his ISO a post where he calls you 100% Mafia, in caps.

ngl, upon seeing 336+knowing that there's multiple new and very active slots to read later, kinda makes me want to procrastinate a bit more. Maybe a bit later, maybe tommorow, we'll see.

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

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BuzzerBee wrote:

scumreads

Marshmallow Marshall
for so many reasons. just today they voted to lynch Gandhi with the only reason being that Gandhi disappeared at the end of D2? which is totally unfair to Gandhi imo because they have been nothing but active and helpful and then swooped in at the last second to help hammer Shadow. Marshmallow is also going back and forth on their reads of 2b, and also is avoiding giving any kind of scumreads. i hate wishy washy players. it was the same with Shadow. our job is to lynch mafia, so scumreads are one of the most helpful things you can offer as town. if you're wrong then you're wrong but at least try to give us something. ANYWAY all this plus elijah pushing Marshmallow on D2 leads me to believe elijah might've gotten a red check on Marsh.

Oliwaz144
i don't have much to go off from their predecessor either i just need to see more before i come to a better conclusion. but jovi seemed scummy to me so that is carrying over to my opinion of oliwaz. as i mentioned before i appreciate them catching up on everything but other than their first post everything else hasn't been much of a contribution

townreads

Pqwerty
i really have no reason to not believe their miller claim. #1 on my town list for sure

2b55b5g
she helped hammer Shadow, made this very townie post, and was already sus of Marshmallow since D2. i don't have a lot of hard evidence for my townread on 2b, but i feel like it's mostly the way i interpret the tone of their posts. mostly calm, logical, and helpful. never defensive. 2b just wants to solve the game which is the most town thing you can do lol

Minimania
mini was immediately skeptical of shadow's claim, was townread by elijah HARD which leads me to believe if elijah didnt get a red check on Marshmallow n1, he definitely got a green check on mini n1, and mini has been skeptical of Marsh since D2

Grilyon2
honestly i thought grilyon died already lmao i just realized they're still alive. i don't see their inactivity as scummy at all though. i mean just take a look at their most recent post from D2. they hit the nail on the head with all of their reads and ultimately ended up voting for Shadow. i hope Grilyon comes back and gives us more insight on D3.

Nuclear Gandhi
no longer my top townread, but definitely still a townread. i talked about this a bit in my read for Marshmallow, but Gandhi has been nothing but helpful and helped hammer Shadow. this last post where they said they didn't feel like catching up was weird but the still voted correctly regardless so i can forgive it. hoping to see more from them today tho

neutral

Gikkle
i townread gikkle until their weird claim on D2. i do believe their explanation for the claim though but now that i see Gikkle is a very brilliant player, i wouldn't put it past them to do some kind of meta reverse psychology thing lol. this is all just conspiracy tho i definitely lean town for Gikkle but i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up winning the game as mafia and baffled us all

Whahahat?! Im scum for arriving late?
And you townread a person who was so low in activity you thougth they are  .. dead?!
Oh..  wasnt grilyon your scumread ? (https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 46#p795446)
And now hes your townread?!I
By the end of d2, bon jovi made a whopping 4 (Four) posts. You pointed that out yourself. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 72#p795872
So... maybe you wanna finally explain your read on me? And/or bj??
Because we are into d3 and you still didnt. But are happy to attack lhf like me.
!VOTE BUZZERBEEB

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

L-2

My first read: MM is scum.
Im sad Gikkle dropped the Mason claim. Either he thinks im stupid or hes scum

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ElijahBaley wrote:

it does not have to be present in more than that - I don't try to force reads like you guys do. if something feels scummy to me I call it out as scummy. I don't try to make up some weird complicated story as to why someone is scum, I only call someone scum (or town) if I'm sure they are. numbers don't mean anything.

So, this is one of Elijah's earlier posts. Elijah says here that he only calls someone scum if he is sure that they are. This is pretty important because of some of his later statements during Day 2.

ElijahBaley wrote:

by the way, I knew Lumi would flip town.
!vote BuzzerBee

ElijahBaley wrote:

anyway BuzzerBee is mafia I do not buy the "he is busy" story one bit just get him

Here, it looks like he is putting all of his eggs into the Buzzerbee basket. Did he investigate Buzzerbee and get a scum result? Well, let's take a look at a post of his that gives us more insight into his read here.

ElijahBaley wrote:

because he is sus
and who cares he is an inactive?

ElijahBaley wrote:

we NEED to random someone. frankly outside of you guys focusing on me and what I regard as basically no-u's are that mostly attacking my play for being different, there have not been any major pushes this game. might as well start with BuzzerBee because he keeps dropping reads, promising to come back and then leaving

are you gonna put your vote on him to get some info or are you just gonna continue and **** about how I'm not "acting townie" or how everyone else isn't doing ****?

These two posts paint what sort of looks like a pretty clear picture. Buzzerbee must have gotten a scum result. But I'll get back to this later.

ElijahBaley wrote:

MM IS MAFIA, HE IS NOT BEING USEFUL THIS GAME. THAT IS HIS SCUM META 100%. GET BUZZER BEE AND THEN MARSHMALLOW MARSHALL.
MM and BuzzerBee = team

In this post, a few posts later in his ISO, Elijah then claims that MM is Mafia. Pretty hard on it, too. There's no leadup to this claim, he just says it in all caps. So, perhaps he got a scum result on Buzzerbee and is presuming MM to be his teammate.

I'll get into why this doesn't make a lot of sense in a little bit.

ElijahBaley wrote:

he's not inactive, every time he leaves he says "I will be back", which is scummy. why is that scummy? I do not know, but I know that as scum I've done that before + I've seen scum doing that before. being inactive or not has no bearing tbh

This is the last vote Elijah makes before making his first vote on Day 2. This is pretty clearly about Buzzerbee.

ElijahBaley wrote:

!vote Marshmallow Marshall

If more people vote for Marshmallow Marshall, I'll unvote so I can keep hammer power.

His vote is placed on Marshmallow Marshall instead of Buzzerbee. This is kind of a weird move to make, considering up to this point he had been implying that Buzzerbee is someone he got a scum result for. It would've been better if he had kept pushing for Buzzerbee, because he would have absolutely no reason to trust him. This is all assuming Buzz showed up negative, and that Elijah checked him. Why settle for MM if you can't be as sure of his innocence?

ElijahBaley wrote:

I am also down to vote 2b. but please vote someone for God's sake. we can't just keep making up reads, we need to make real pushes.

This post makes it look like he's not confident in either of his pushes, which makes me question the validity of either push. But I'll get into that in a bit.

ElijahBaley wrote:

I am not frustrated for being pushed, I am frustrated because MM and Gandhi are effectively calling my play **** and saying I'm scum because of it. This game is actually hard... btw, none of your reads strike me as you being particularly confident in. Why not sheep me and vote BuzzerBee and MM, since I have a much stronger scum lean on these two than anyone else does on me?

After condorcet starts picking up steam, Elijah's wagon starts to pick up some amount of steam. Here, he is talking to ShadowsEdge, saying that none of his reads strike Elijah as being confident reads. Considering Shadow ended up being the Traitor, seems like he was onto something.

ElijahBaley wrote:

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Also, I am not big into worldbuilding right now because there's little to work with, but if I had to give scummates to Elijah, it'd be among the inactives: it somewhat feels like he's distracting from their inactivity by calling Buzzerbee out for "being busy" (despite it being completely legitimate and despite Buzzer being honestly contributive). As for Pqwerty, I am debating whether or not he'd sheep Elijah THAT openly if he were scum with him. I think it's not impossible (especially knowing Elijah). And if you're going to say "b-but Pqwerty claimed anti-town town role!", that legit means nothing at all. Scum can do that, and may even have interest in doing so to 1) get towncred and 2) excuse their survival on the long run. Of course, it's not scummy in itself, but it's also not towny, and I feel like people are giving him a free pass for it.

when have you ever done that as Mafia. I have literally never done anything like you suggest, and I have never witnessed anyone else doing it (except in the mod)

I actually think Marshmallow Marshall is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense. Normally he's the one defending me from a lynch, now he's pushing for mine. I think Marshmallow is 100% Mafia.

Every post afterwards lays off of Buzzerbee, and he starts digging hard into MM and eventually ShadowsEdge.

ElijahBaley wrote:

also, I won't even belabour how anti-town it is to focus on one guy pretty much all game. I am town, what are you guys doing to do when I get lynched? as it stands, town is royally f u c k e d when I'm dead, because nobody here is genuinely scummy, with the possible exception of Marshmallow Marshall (I am no longer as certain of BuzzerBee being scum as I once was, I reread one of the posts that pinged me and it doesn't look as bad as I thought). I actually wonder if one of the people driving my train isn't specifically trying to get me lynched because 1) they are Mafia and 2) they don't want people to get CFD'd.

He says he's no longer certain of BuzzerBee. I'll get back to this later.

ElijahBaley wrote:

1. I've known MM personally for years. I probably am the player who knows him the best. I am confident because of my meta with him. Specifically, MM almost always defends me from pushes coming from "everyone else" when he is town, but right now not only is he 1) pushing me, he is doing it on totally flimsy grounds 2). It is almost as if he wants me to be Mafia. That, or he wants to lynch me because I'm an easy target. In any event, he is probably Mafia. Am I 100% down to lynch him right now? Yes, as of right now, I am.

Very confident about MM here.

ElijahBaley wrote:

Ok so say MM is mafia. Any idea who their partners are?

Also, just to entertain the idea, if MM flipped town then who do you think the mafia would be?

1) Someone he has not interacted much with. ShadowsEdge is good on that front, I don't recall any interactions between them. MM is a paranoid scum so he wouldn't be talking to his partners in the thread. Possibly also Grilyon, I don't recall him ever drawing attention to that inactive in comparison to say me or Bon Jovi.

2) I have no idea

When asked who he things MM's partners are, he mentions Shadow, Grilyon, and Jovi. He doesn't seem particularly confident, but it's clear from his progression that at this point he's considering Shadow. Also he didn't mention Buzzerbee in this post at all.

ElijahBaley wrote:

I don't buy Shadow's role now. It would appear Shadows made a legit scum slip.

From one of his posts, he's starting to scumread Shadow for what we now know to be an actual scum slip.

ElijahBaley wrote:

Minimania wrote:

ElijahBaley wrote:

Minimania wrote:

Why would you not hide being a Miller from the Mafia?

If I was a Miller, I would claim that immediately so the cop knows if he checks me I will come up as Mafia. much better than claiming it after the fact

Yes but that's basic, why not hang back and claim negative utility instead in case there's a Mafia Cop? The Mafia Cop will believe a Miller to be the Traitor if found and thus they'll be kept pretty safe

Fair enough

As an aside, Miller was my actual guess so let's goooooo

So anyway, yeah. Right now it sort of looks like I've got a green check for being town, and that looks the most likely to me, but I've got a theory about something, and it's all because of Shadow's claim and his flip.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I didn't learn that there was 2 mafia at the start of the game, so I couldn't have said D1 that there were 2 mafia.

I'll just openly state my role. My role is Informer, I can check one person to see if they were visited by the mafia for that night, I went on MM, who was visited by Mafia, given that Lumi was also definitely visited (due to it being the only kill and the fact that Mafia would not want to miss a kill in a game like this), that means that there are 2 mafia. As mentioned previously, Norwee did say there were up to a maximum of 3 mafia (including the traitor), hence, the issue was trying to find if there were 1 or 2 mafia (discluding the traitor).

Also important to note that I dont see these for the Traitor (explicitly stated in my rolecard).

I didn't want to claim because while most often the role could be pretty useless, it can help to clear some people of at least not being a part of the mafia team (such as MM). Though this doesn't clear them of being the Traitor as the Mafia can still visit the Traitor. My information is also why i've been more trusting of MM in D2 because I knew that they weren't part of a team despite everyone being convinced that they were.

Knowing that ShadowsEdge flipped as a Traitor Watcher, I think it's kind of important that we pay attention to what information Shadow is comfortable with pushing here. Obviously he wasn't a Town Informer, but it's likely he felt comfortable claiming it because he had a role that could pretty much do the same thing, and he could lie about the details as he wants. He says that he checked MM and found that someone had visited him. It could've been any player in the game, and yet I get the feeling that it might've been Elijah.

The biggest problem with my theory is that, when pushing Buzzer and MM, Elijah decided to push Buzzerbee's slot first. Why go on and tell people to vote Buzz first, and then MM if it was a more certain thing for MM to be Mafia? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

However, Elijah never relented on his scumread of MM, not even once. So I admit, I'm really suspicious of MM right now. I realize that it's probably pretty risky trying to read too far into Shadow's post, but it sounds plausible that someone visited MM Night 1, and I think it might help disambiguate who Elijah checked if someone that visited MM Night 1 could step forward.