I am thankful

LukeM · 2017-11-25 00:39:45

As someone who stopped playing EE for a while, and came back, but have kept up to date with most of the recent (post Nou) changes, I would agree that I don't really have much of an idea what you (Atilla) do. I know about the discussion with possible new owner thing, as that was made quite clear, but have no real idea of what else you do...

Saying that, I don't really think this is a bad thing, as you seem to want the best for the game, it's more of a 'they seem to be involved in loads for no apparent reason... I wonder why...' thing rather than having an actual reason for needing to know.

Xenonetix

Minimania · 2017-11-25 02:37:00

One of the major points that I made in my first post is that the staff aren't doing anything. I'm thankful for all they have done, but now nothing is happening. The other main issue is the transparency, and that's the main issue I have with Atilla. I have absolutely no idea who he is or what he does.

N1KF, Harmonious, Xenonetix, Different55, MartenM

Abelysk · 2017-11-25 10:33:25

Im thankful for all this drama we have in a kids game

<snip>, Offensive Ray, Dencc, skullz17, Kikikan

N1KF · 2017-11-25 19:33:00

Abelysk wrote:

Im thankful for all this drama we have in a kids game

Personally, I'm thankful that we had the chance to talk out the problems we have in the administration here. It's better than having the whole thing be hidden, in my opinion.

Minimania, Xenonetix, Kikikan

Xenonetix · 2017-11-26 08:14:46

XxAtillaxX wrote:

First off. You don't need to make the illusion that you're speaking by youself. You didn't even take the effort to mention that you're speaking on behalf of MegaLamb.

He's not speaking on "behalf" of me. The dev team refused to allow non-disclosure agreements to occur, so as far as I am concerned, if anyone asked me questions about the game, I was entirely open and honest in my answers. I didn't ask Mini to post here, and Mini decided to post here of my own accord. I did not plan on making a thread on the forums to represent staff drama in any fashion, but I also don't see the point in hiding anything any more.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He took those screenshots and sent them to us prior. It's very clear that he's using you for a mouth piece, apparently he's too much of a coward to speak for himself - and it's incredibly irresponsible for you to pretend as though this extremely one-sided and private matter is merely an opinion of yours, and not directly sourced from him.

Yes, I'm the source. No, I didn't post it on the forums. How is it cowardly to tell the truth? I spoke for myself just fine, but I wasn't intending to fuel the drama on the forums. Don't blame me when you like the drama to such an extent that you wish to post this ridiculous over-sized post, and still pretend you don't care about the issue.

Also, it just shows how much lack of respect you have for your fellow staff members that you would call one of them a coward when the staff team is supposed to be supportive of one another.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I would like to clarify that it's wholly untrue that MegaLamb was demodded

Oh really? Would you? You would like to clarify that? And yet, the screenshot of my conversation with NVD clearly proves you did it once, and the entire staff know you did it again on Wednesday, because you know I wouldn't have quit if you hadn't, so feel free to continue telling yourself and others the outright lie that you didn't demod me, especially as there's no chance I would have resigned if it weren't for that decision.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He certainly isn't threatening to the community nor to "my authority"

No one but you has said I could be threatening in any fashion. Mini just alluded to that fact. Fairly sure the action of the demodding was some sort of vague threat from yourself. Why are you pushing the idea of being a threat on to me when you're clearly the threat here?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Is it always necessary to have a villain behind everything?

No, but the anonymous hacker that refuses to out himself to the community as staff because he likes to have all the power behind the scenes and wants to continue being unpleasant to the community for his own dramatic amusement is a relatively good indication.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

We'd like him to stay and continue to help out. I don't get along with him as much as others, but I played no part in his resignation - it was completely of his own accord, and wasn't pressured in any way shape nor form.

Do you forget the conversations you have from day to day? You played no part in my resignation by demodding me? Following your decision to demod me, I stated: "If I haven't had my modship reinstated by the time I wake up (on Wednesday), I'm leaving. Jesse, Showpath, and you were online at the time I woke up, and any one of you could have reinstated the modship, and yet, I went into the world Phinarose was in, and couldn't go into mod mode. I couldn't do anything, and considering I'm relatively sure NVD wasn't on during that day, that means that all 3 of the admins (Jesse, Showpath and Atilla) that were online had made the decision I was no longer welcome.

To suggest you'd now like me to stay and continue to help out is a bit of the kick in the teeth when none of the admin team had any desire for me to stay around. If you want me to stick around because I'm the only one on the team trying to do anything, then find someone else, because it was too stressful for me to continue any longer, and I really don't have to put up with that in my life.

You won, Atilla. Why are you continuing to produce drama as if you somehow lost?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I didn't negotiate between NVD and Nou. I had created a topic concerning the previous administration and I've been very vocal about the reasons as to why the game was/is declining.

Possibly a misunderstanding then, this is the reason NVD gave me for bringing you on to the team in the first place, and it was to assist him in the transfer of the game to NVD from Nou. Nou has said he hasn't communicated with you over it, but I don't know enough of the details to comment further on this issue. I only mentioned what I'd been told.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I like to be clear.

Who are you? How old are you? What is your job? Do you have a family or social life? What are your hobbies?

Please, I would love for the truth and clarity you so conveniently purposely skirt around to finally come out. Why not tell us more about yourself as an official developer of Everybody Edits for 8 months?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I don't have "so much power"

As the anonymous secret developer who should have power to the tune of none, and as you have the ability to access the backend of EE, update the game, change people's account details and statuses, and issue gems and in-game content at will, as well as making a few changes to the game without consulting any of the official staff, I would argue to my grave that you have "so much power" for someone whom the community expected to have no power at all.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I don't understand the contradiction either, earlier you stated that they "do next to nothing" and now they "put a lot of work into the updates."

You know me well enough to know that wasn't a contradiction I would have made personally, so to suggest earlier that Mini is speaking on behalf of me is therefore somewhat of an insult, considering you know I wouldn't have worded any of this like this. I didn't say the staff do next to nothing.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I'm not a member of the staff beyond helping with development. I was given access to the backend in that regard. I don't need nor particularly desire to play a role in anything else beyond helping out.
It'd be helpful to include some context, at the time nobody was online besides Phinarose and he was extremely upset towards Phinarose for a disagreement they had. To quote:
Slack wrote:
megalamb [3:17 PM]
**** it
[3:18]
If Phina is going to be an ungrateful ***** when she was supposed to be RUNNING this contest, I'm resigning
**** you all

Not sure of the point you're making here. This was on November 5th-6th. As is shown in one of the images Minimania posted, the logic is flawless. At that time, she was ungrateful, and *****ing. At no point did she run to Mr Big-Man Atilla and say "Remove his modship now". Phina has stated "No one said you should leave." Incidentally, I maintain that all of the staff have been immensely ungrateful to each other within the team, apart from NVD, who has at least shown his appreciation to various members of staff for being there. NVD was also online at the same time when you claimed nobody was online besides Phinarose and yourself, as he admitted to being, and said you should have asked NVD, Jesse, or Showpath, before making the decision to demod me. Phina is not in charge of staff power matters, and neither are you, so to suggest you have no power when you took it into your own hands to demod me was your decision, not Phina's.

Similarly, on Wednesday, you claimed you went to Phina and claimed she approached you to talk to you about the bans and me, but she admitted that you reversed the bans, and THEN went to Phina to seek her approval of YOUR decision, when you claim to have "nothing to do with moderation", and yet make moderation decisions of your own anyway.

While we're at it, didn't you say just a paragraph ago that you didn't demod me, and now you've admitted that you did? Interesting.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If you are referring to his recent resignation:
I had mentioned that IPBans do not include a message and are fairly ineffective, as the actual account remains unbanned; IPBans only apply to IPs, intended for raiding or used in conjunction with account bans.
MegaLamb took offense at that and proceeded to be inflammatory towards me, so I proved it to him, sending him a screenshot of the database showing no message field existing, including calling him a rude name since he was being inflammatory towards me as well.
He got extremely upset at that point and being full of rage, he went ahead and banned my community account atilla for 99+ days. Jesse told him that in-game rules do not apply in the Slack chat, and MegaLamb ignored that, and replied telling him to ban me from Slack. He didn't remove my account ban, so it was there until I had to remove it myself the following day.

If you're going to misconstrue the situation as if I'm the bad guy, at least do it in such a way where the timeline makes sense. I did not take offence in any fashion to the idea that you were right or wrong about IP bans. I took the action to place a ban on thegame following the fact the IPban seemingly hadn't worked. Atilla informed me that IPbans do not have messages, and so my shorter message in the ban to Thegame didn't make sense, because I'd done a longer ban message with the IPban. After Phina then confirmed the idea that Ogotu DID see the IPban message, this also brought up all sorts of contradictions and conflicts in Atilla's story, but Atilla had no intention of arguing with Phina. I believe his reaction to Phina's comment was "Oh." rather than "That wouldn't be possible. Phina must be an idiot for believing it's possible" (which she's not), and then proceeded to post the screenshot, which didn't even make any sense to me out of context anyway, with "**** you n*****".

It was the N-word I took offence to, as many people know I have a serious problem with people using anywhere in society. In EE, I banned people in-game for it. I made the argument months ago that I thought forum and in-game bans should go hand in hand, because the forums were directly related to the game.
But Atilla insisted that they are fan forums, and the staff should have no team contact directly with the forums administrators and moderators, nor the administrations of the EE Discord server. I disagreed with this as an approach, but I let it go at the time. But in the same manner, I believe that the Everybody Edtis Staff Slack is directly related to EE itself, so it's justifiable to ban someone in EE for offensive language in Slack.

Atilla's retort to this was the fact that I was abusing my moderation power, and, in an unnecessary show of power of his own, he removed my modship (as someone who claims to have no power and is not staff).

My reaction was that: If I wasn't allowed to punish the offensive comments in-game, then he should be punished in the Slack by the administrators of Slack, who I believe are EEJesse and NVD.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Moderators should not and cannot ban people for reasons outside of the game (think about how it'd be like if your EE account was banned for something you said on the forums or discord).
Kira did that to someone, and he was demodded for doing so. I removed his moderator privileges for doing so and for precautions since that was completely uncalled for and unexpected and he was clearly full of rage.

So, just to clarify once again, you stated you have no care over anything related to moderation, and you didn't have any power to do anything, yet you were given developer privileges on 3rd April 2017. I was present in the Slack at that point, and there was absolutely no discussion amongst staff over the demoderation of Kira, or when or why it happened, and now you're just admitting that you, once again of your own accord, without asking NVD, Jesse or Showpath, just went ahead and demodded him too?

You can't have it both ways here. If your logic is that bans within Everybody Edits should only happen based on events occurring in Everybody Edits, and not based on anything happening in the Slack... Why are you justified in removing the moderator privileges of people in Everybody Edits over actions that occurred in Slack then? Surely any sane person would seek some form of punishment in Slack alone and not in Everybody Edits, unless they only had the power to do something about it in Everybody Edits, and, say, abuse their power...

Oh wait...

Less hypocrisy if you wouldn't mind, please?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

To further explain my reasoning behind taking precautionary measures:
In addition, a month prior to Nou giving the game to NVD, an in-game administrator CJMaeder was about to quit, he had planned on publicly releasing the shared secrets and fraudulently blaming me for it.
Thanks to Showpath, I had contacted Nou through Kaslai, Proc and I believe Zoey before he had a chance to do so, and he was promptly removed from the staff and the shared secrets were changed.
This set up a precedent where I don't trust people who are raging towards the rest of the staff to be in a rational state of mind upon their resignation.

So what happens to you when you are irrational? Who controls your actions?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It's an extremely common business practice for employers to revoke privileged access to their systems after they had fired an employee, or after their employee had resigned.
It certainly isn't anything to be personally offended by or consider an abuse of power.

Agreed, and thank you for announcing me as your employee, and you as my employer. It's so nice of you to pay me the monthly wage I deserved, as my employer. Thank you Boss Man Atilla, who has employed everyone on this staff, and thus has the right to revoke their employee's privileges.

I agree with you whole-heartedly in your statement. IF you were my employer, I would not consider it an abuse of power for you to revoke my privileges. NVD, as the closest thing to an employer we have, stated explicitly that you should have at least asked him permission before taking the action you took. So, in taking the action, and not being the employer, you did abuse your power. Thank you for finally providing your own logic as to why you were abusing the power you shouldn't have had.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I didn't reverse any bans without Phinarose's permission. You can ask Phinarose that, which you apparently didn't bother to prior to making that claim.

I did ask Phinarose. She said that you reversed the bans first, and spoke to her after you'd done so. Feel free to take that up with Phina if you don't believe it to be true.
She didn't disagree with your choice to do it, but that's not the same as asking permission. There's that dark saying that "It's easier to seek forgiveness than permission." I believe that is very much what occurred in this situation.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It came to a surprise to all of the staff that MegaLamb went ahead and banned TheGame and Ogotu without asking anyone about it, not even telling Phinarose.

As can be seen in the screenshot detailing the results of the contest investigation, which was posted to ALL staff in the same chat, I clearly stated that I thought TheGame should be banned for "a VERY long time". It's hardly my fault that, even though I did ask for people's opinions in that chat multiple times following that, everyone declines that I sought feedback from anyone. Jesse admitted he didn't care, and Atilla claimed it was none of his concern, which QUICKLY changed after I made the ban, to suddenly become "his concern", for some still indeterminate reason.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He banned TheGame for 40 days and I asked Phinarose whether he should be doing so, and she said no, and so I asked if I should remove them, and she said yes. I did so.

This is not the story Phina gave - Phina said you had already made the bans, and asked if it was fine that you DID remove them. She said yes to that, and that is not the same.

If you decided to rape a girl, and then ask her afterwards saying "That was good wasn't it?" If she says, "Yeah, it was fun", that's not suddenly giving consent when she never gave consent before it happened.

I can't speak for Phina entirely, and no one knows whether Phina would have said yes before Atilla took action, but Showpath and Jesse at least agreed that the reason unbanning was meant to be discussed before going ahead with unbanning someone is to discuss it with the person who made the ban.

This staff team is supposed to be supportive of one another, but I don't know every ban Phina, LRussell, and Benje00 has made, and they probably don't know every ban I've made. For Atilla, (who I keep feeling it's necessary to remind people is not a moderator, and considers matters of moderation "none of [his]
concern") to approach, for example, LRussell, and ask him if he should reverse a ban that Phina made 2 days ago, and LRussell just goes, "Sure, if you think that's best", that's NOT a DISCUSSION about unbanning someone. That's seeking approval from someone else as a workaround because you didn't want to speak to the original person who banned them.

I was in a rational state of mind when I banned TheGame. I felt I had done the investigation, and given a justifiable unbiased ban for TheGame for his actions. Atilla and Phina disagreed with me over my reasoning, so Atilla's version of "discussing unbanning him" was to go to the one person he knew agreed with him?

...and you call me the coward?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He is currently banned at the very moment, as Phinarose made the final decision about the duration in his abscence, the very same applies to Abysmal.

I don't know whether this is true or not, or when this would have occurred, but on Thursday, I saw TheGame and Abysmal online. I would ask how long you ended up banning them for, but knowing your personality, I would guess you would say it's now "None of my business", when this stupid investigation took up a month of my life, which I would argue definitely makes it my business.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I was asked to help with development from the very start. I don't know where he was told that, very likely interpreted by himself rather than anyone else.

You told me that. You said you considered your position to be "Negotiator" and nothing more, because you insisted on arguing against me when I kept saying you're a developer, and you kept denying it. If you had accepted and said you were a developer from the start, we would never have had the argument in the first place over what your position on the team was.

It's so nice you like to be so clear.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Nope. He didn't ask permission for anything and MegaLamb has been speaking to community members behind our backs about plenty of internal matters, including Minimania.

What proof do you have of that? The ONLY person I have been speaking to about internal matters "behind your backs" is Nou, primarily because I felt he deserved to know the truth whenever he asked.

If you're considering "Internal Matters" as "getting feedback from the community in the transparent matter the staff team claimed it to be when NVD took over", then I agree. I asked for feedback from people over various things, such as campaigns, and what they wanted from certain POTENTIAL (never confirmed) features. I regularly went to the staff first over every single thing I went to the community for feedback over later, and I was regularly met with replies such as "I don't care", "Do whatever", or no response at all.

I believe Phina believes I kept "approaching" an individual member of the community when I wasn't. That member of the community ALWAYS came to me (and never did I approach him, which he likes to remind me of regularly, as he believes his help is unappreciated as a result), and if the staff refused to help me with something, I didn't see why it was a problem to attempt to play to the strength of the individual in question. I never said he would become a member of staff. I did say he would be given credit if we used anything he made, just as other members of the community have been given credit for their work in the past.

Other than that, I guess I went to a couple of people helping me with campaigns over campaign-related matters alone. I certainly never "went to Minimania". He was in the room when I was answering questions people were asking me after I'd left the team, as he can confirm himself if he wishes.

I said it when I joined the team, and I'll say it again now. Non-disclosure agreements would help to prevent this sort of thing happening, as I have no inclination nor loyalty to the team to keep any secrets. I respect privacy, but in matters that are directly related to the community as a whole, I don't see why most of this information should be kept from them, and I am not at liberty to keep any secrets.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

You are going to act like you had no knowledge of my involvement when I've been extremely clear about it?
I've stated that I helped out with development and was negotiating an acquisition for quite a while now.
I'm entirely certain I've disclosed my fairly limited role on these forums, as well as in the fan Discord server.

The statements I believe you have made were that you were brought on by NVD to negotiate with a potential owner, and you have occasionally been asked to help the developers. At no point have you "made clear" that you are an official Everybody Edits developer, or the community would not have the natural reaction of genuinely not knowing that you are.

----------------------

So yes, this reply took a total of 3 days to craft. Yes, I am in a rational state of mind. Yes, I have gone through this post multiple times to make sure that all the information is accurate, and can be verified. If it can't be verified, it is only because Slack history is too far back to quote, and I no longer have access to Slack to take the screenshots anyway.

I have no intention of returning to staff as a moderator, as the moderation disagreements were definitely a contributing factor towards the stress my position involved.

If the staff (excluding Atilla) are interested, I would be interested in rejoining the team purely as Campaign Manager, and nothing more. I would be content with the same powers Cola1 has, which would not involve moderation at all, in addition to re-accessibility to the Campaign Management Tool. Preferably, I would like communication with only NVD, Jesse, and Showpath in regards to campaign matters alone. If not, I understand, and we can part ways, but I am never rejoining the Staff Slack.

Offensive Ray, Kirby, Zoey2070, Harmonious, Slabdrill, mrjawapa, Kikikan, Minimania, Pig, mutantdevle, MartenM, liammatey

N1KF · 2017-11-26 08:34:28

Mega Lamb, can you please try to avoid the rape analogies and aggressive sarcasm? I think taking a step back would be healthier for both you and Atilla.

Offensive Ray · 2017-11-26 13:21:40

I'll just shorten megalamb's aims:

1.Atilla shouldn't have demoted him for no reason.
2.Atilla shouldn't have demoted him without asking the official admins.
3.Atilla isn't a part of the team to decide whatever he should do, he was just given development to develop stuff not to demote any of the staff.
4.Megalamb went to a world to use his moderation stuff in general but it didn't work because atilla demoted him.
5.Megalamb asked phinarose about the moderation thing she told him that he got demoted by some admin.
6.Atilla already was arguing about demoting megalamb.
7.None of the admins were online at the time that megalamb was demoted at except atilla and phinarose (from staff)

I don't really understand phinarose and minimania's story.. So I didn't explain it.
But I think if I was in megalamb's situation I'd feel the same thing..
I mean getting demoted suddenly without discussing it with the staff? Really atilla?

In the end megalamb said that he doesn't mind joining staff again but only as a "campaign maker" role without moderation, just to make campaigns in case he talked to the admins, if not, he will never return to the EE staff.

Xenonetix · 2017-11-26 21:09:16

N1KF wrote:

I think taking a step back would be healthier for both you and Atilla.

Why do you think I purposely did take a step back by quitting the team? Atilla says he played no part in my resignation, and yet, if he weren't part of the team at all, I wouldn't have resigned. That's also why I've explicitly stated that, if the staff would like me to continue to help, I would like no communication with Atilla in any fashion in regards to the content.

N1KF wrote:

aggressive sarcasm

I reply in the fashion I was spoken to.

Latif · 2017-11-26 22:20:19

Unity is finished? Where is it then? Is EE going to revive?

Xenonetix · 2017-11-26 22:46:45

Latif wrote:

Unity is finished? Where is it then? Is EE going to revive?

As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.

Latif, Minimania, mutantdevle

Evilbunny · 2017-11-26 22:48:02

Mega Lamb wrote:

Latif wrote:
Unity is finished? Where is it then? Is EE going to revive?
As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.

Do you know why the community was never told this?

Latif, mutantdevle

Xenonetix · 2017-11-26 22:59:58

Evilbunny wrote:

Mega Lamb wrote:
Latif wrote:
Unity is finished? Where is it then? Is EE going to revive?
As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.
Do you know why the community was never told this?

Not really. There have been numerous threads from the community about Unity, most specifically in regards to the Alpha Testers that were testing it over a year ago. The Alpha Testers tested it, gave feedback, and the build was fixed. Nou teased the latest version of Unity, and after Nou left the staff, Unity was abandoned (or at least suspended) as a project in favour of discussions with the potential new owner, who, if they were to take over, would then make the decision over whether to go with the Unity build or not. As the potential owner has been unable to confirm either way whether they will be taking over the game or not, it was considered something to be kept from the community over whether Unity was considered "dead" or not, because in reality, it's more like a Schrodinger's Cat situation:

As we don't know whether the potential new owner will be taking over or not, the staff does not know for certain whether the Unity version of Everybody Edits is dead or not.

It was nicer for the community to keep the hope alive that the Unity version of EE could still come at some point in future, but as time goes on, it seems less and less likely. If there's one thing I can at least say, it's that, long-term, when Flash does die in 2020, the Unity version of EE is at least a backup option that's ready to go, even if it costs more to do so.

Kikikan, Latif, Minimania, mutantdevle, liammatey

John · 2017-11-26 23:15:57

Mega Lamb wrote:

As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago

It wasn't 100% finished, the lobby was dead and there was no shop. In regards to gameplay it was flawless. It worked really well, I was a tester.

Is there another UnitEE that I'm unaware of? I tested Thanel's version.

mutantdevle

Xenonetix · 2017-11-26 23:46:59

Emalton wrote:

It wasn't 100% finished, the lobby was dead and there was no shop. In regards to gameplay it was flawless. It worked really well, I was a tester.
Is there another UnitEE that I'm unaware of? I tested Thanel's version.

The version you tested was indeed an Alpha version of the Unity version, and feedback from it was taken to make the necessary alterations. I believe a Beta version was ready for launch, but it couldn't be classified as "100% finished" as it was only planned for Beta and not for full release.

mutantdevle

John · 2017-11-26 23:47:44

Oh that makes sense

N1KF · 2017-11-27 03:18:39

Mega Lamb wrote:

N1KF wrote:
I think taking a step back would be healthier for both you and Atilla.
Why do you think I purposely did take a step back by quitting the team? Atilla says he played no part in my resignation, and yet, if he weren't part of the team at all, I wouldn't have resigned. That's also why I've explicitly stated that, if the staff would like me to continue to help, I would like no communication with Atilla in any fashion in regards to the content.

You may be taking a step back in authority but you didn't seem to be taking a step back emotionally in the post you made. That said, your later posts seem to be less aggressive and I hope the topic continues in that direction.

I reply in the fashion I was spoken to.

Why would you willingly choose to stoop down to that level?

As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.

What about the HTML5 version?

XxAtillaxX · 2017-11-27 05:39:48

Mega Lamb wrote:

Also, it just shows how much lack of respect you have for your fellow staff members that you would call one of them a coward when the staff team is supposed to be supportive of one another.

I'm speaking to you as an individual. I don't need (nor does anyone) to respect you merely for being a fellow staff member.
If that represents a lack of respect for fellow staff members, then by the very same standards you have a lack of respect as well, since you lashed out at Phinarose calling her an ungrateful ****.

Mega Lamb wrote:

Oh really? Would you? You would like to clarify that? And yet, the screenshot of my conversation with NVD clearly proves you did it once, and the entire staff know you did it again on Wednesday, because you know I wouldn't have quit if you hadn't, so feel free to continue telling yourself and others the outright lie that you didn't demod me, especially as there's no chance I would have resigned if it weren't for that decision.

If you had, you likely would've had your moderator privileges restored within a day if you had spoken to NVD, which I had insisted upon.
If you ban others for arbitrary reasons outside of the game, that's grounds for firing let alone temporarily taking away your abilities as to prevent you from doing any other harm in wake of your tantrum(s).
I go on to further state that while I did temporarily remove your moderator privileges, I however didn't force you to quit, you left on your own accord.

Mega Lamb wrote:

. NVD was also online at the same time when you claimed nobody was online besides Phinarose and yourself, as he admitted to being, and said you should have asked NVD, Jesse, or Showpath, before making the decision to demod me.

He wasn't. I looked at Slack and seen nobody online aside from yourself. Is there any evidence to suggest that he was? I didn't see any interaction from him nor anyone in the remaining hours.

Mega Lamb wrote:

Fairly sure the action of the demodding was some sort of vague threat from yourself. Why are you pushing the idea of being a threat on to me when you're clearly the threat here?

No it isn't. In both instances I provided the exact reasons for doing so, and any reasonable person would have acted the same if they had an angry staff member lashing out at them and everyone else for that matter, in the first instance.

Mega Lamb wrote:

No, but the anonymous hacker that refuses to out himself to the community as staff because he likes to have all the power behind the scenes and wants to continue being unpleasant to the community for his own dramatic amusement is a relatively good indication.

I think it's unfair to outright claim and rationalize anything I do as nefarious merely on the basis of anonymity.
I'm not seeking any power. I was asked by the current administration if I'd like to help out, and I accepted on the pretense that I wouldn't have to disclose myself, in knowing that I'd receive negative attention from some particular individuals including yourself.

Mega Lamb wrote:

Do you forget the conversations you have from day to day? You played no part in my resignation by demodding me? Following your decision to demod me, I stated: "If I haven't had my modship reinstated by the time I wake up (on Wednesday), I'm leaving. Jesse, Showpath, and you were online at the time I woke up, and any one of you could have reinstated the modship, and yet, I went into the world Phinarose was in, and couldn't go into mod mode. I couldn't do anything, and considering I'm relatively sure NVD wasn't on during that day, that means that all 3 of the admins (Jesse, Showpath and Atilla) that were online had made the decision I was no longer welcome.
To suggest you'd now like me to stay and continue to help out is a bit of the kick in the teeth when none of the admin team had any desire for me to stay around. If you want me to stick around because I'm the only one on the team trying to do anything, then find someone else, because it was too stressful for me to continue any longer, and I really don't have to put up with that in my life.
You won, Atilla. Why are you continuing to produce drama as if you somehow lost?

I stated that I had no power in the context of firing people, which I don't. I took a precautionary action and I'm fully responsible for doing so - it's entirely up to Niels whether I've done anything wrong, or if anyone has.
It isn't my decision to reinstate your privileges. I told you directly after to speak with Niels. If you had, you likely would've had them returned. My intention was for you to speak to him about the actions you took directly before I revoked your privileges.

Mega Lamb wrote:

Who are you? How old are you? What is your job? Do you have a family or social life? What are your hobbies?
Please, I would love for the truth and clarity you so conveniently purposely skirt around to finally come out. Why not tell us more about yourself as an official developer of Everybody Edits for 8 months?

I don't see the relevance, but I'll attempt to satisfy your inquiry with one of my own.

"Who are you?" - Hi. I'm Atilla Lonny, which is obviously an alias - in person, I'm known as Allie.
"How old are you? - I'm currently 19 years of age, soon to be 20.
"What is your job" - I currently work as a contractor for various security firms and corporations.
"Do you have a family or social life" - I do have a family, although I don't speak with them incredibly often. I don't have many friends here, but there's a few I interact with semi-regularly.
"What are your hobbies" - I enjoy recreational programming and graphics designing, and occasionally discussing politics and philosophy.

Now, your turn.
Who are you? How old are you? If a logician falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, do they make a sound? Why haven't we had sex yet?

Mega Lamb wrote:

It was the N-word I took offence to, as many people know I have a serious problem with people using anywhere in society. In EE, I banned people in-game for it. I made the argument months ago that I thought forum and in-game bans should go hand in hand, because the forums were directly related to the game.
But Atilla insisted that they are fan forums, and the staff should have no team contact directly with the forums administrators and moderators, nor the administrations of the EE Discord server. I disagreed with this as an approach, but I let it go at the time. But in the same manner, I believe that the Everybody Edtis Staff Slack is directly related to EE itself, so it's justifiable to ban someone in EE for offensive language in Slack.
Atilla's retort to this was the fact that I was abusing my moderation power, and, in an unnecessary show of power of his own, he removed my modship (as someone who claims to have no power and is not staff).
My reaction was that: If I wasn't allowed to punish the offensive comments in-game, then he should be punished in the Slack by the administrators of Slack, who I believe are EEJesse and NVD.

You heard it here, and at least you admit it.

- I believe that the Everybody Edtis Staff Slack is directly related to EE itself, so it's justifiable to ban someone in EE for offensive language in Slack.
- I made the argument months ago that I thought forum and in-game bans should go hand in hand, because the forums were directly related to the game.

I can think of many people here who would love to be banned in-game for things they said on the forums!

You went ahead and banned my community account for calling you a rude name on a forum outside of the game. You disagreed with the consensus but yet you went ahead and did so anyway out of pure rage and immaturity.
By that standard, you should've been banned by Phinarose and have had your moderator abilities taken away as to not skirt the ban, after having called her an ungrateful ****.

I removed your moderator privileges because you went out of your way to do thing incredibly spiteful and uncalled for action. I interpreted it as a direct threat to cause damage as it's entirely uncalled for and unnecessary.
Kira banned a player for their actions outside of the game and was removed by the staff. I didn't make that decision, the staff including Niels did. If the same standard were to apply to you, you would have also been removed from the staff.

Mega Lamb wrote:

Agreed, and thank you for announcing me as your employee, and you as my employer. It's so nice of you to pay me the monthly wage I deserved, as my employer. Thank you Boss Man Atilla, who has employed everyone on this staff, and thus has the right to revoke their employee's privileges.
I agree with you whole-heartedly in your statement. IF you were my employer, I would not consider it an abuse of power for you to revoke my privileges. NVD, as the closest thing to an employer we have, stated explicitly that you should have at least asked him permission before taking the action you took. So, in taking the action, and not being the employer, you did abuse your power. Thank you for finally providing your own logic as to why you were abusing the power you shouldn't have had.

I didn't state that you were. You are taking it out of context. I was referring to the standards and procedures that many businesses have.

If an employee were to lash out on another employee (regardless of position) kicking them out of the business, would it not be acceptable to temporarily prevent that employee from interacting with customers as though they're representative of the company until the CEO gets involved? I spoke with Niels after doing so, and he agreed that I wasn't in the wrong for taking precautionary measures. He stated that I should have consulted with him, and I would've, but that isn't possible when he isn't online.

Mega Lamb wrote:

So what happens to you when you are irrational? Who controls your actions?

I'm just as responsible as you are, or anyone else for that matter, for any actions I take.

Mega Lamb wrote:

This is not the story Phina gave - Phina said you had already made the bans, and asked if it was fine that you DID remove them. She said yes to that, and that is not the same.

I asked her prior to removing them and she agreed. I asked her and quoted you, and she replied acknowledging that I did ask her first. I would assume that it was likely a misapprehension on her part, likely swayed by the false narratives you like to set up.
I think it's especially immature to analogize anything of that sort to rape in any instance, are you serious?

Mega Lamb wrote:

"Sure, if you think that's best", that's NOT a DISCUSSION about unbanning someone. That's seeking approval from someone else as a workaround because you didn't want to speak to the original person who banned them.
I was in a rational state of mind when I banned TheGame. I felt I had done the investigation, and given a justifiable unbiased ban for TheGame for his actions. Atilla and Phina disagreed with me over my reasoning, so Atilla's version of "discussing unbanning him" was to go to the one person he knew agreed with him?
...and you call me the coward?

I didn't do any workaround. You banned them, left for around a day, came back for a few minutes, saw that they were banned, and left for another day.
The reason you provided for banning them in the ban message was "Do not attempt to hurt others" or something vague to that effect.

Jesse said he didn't care, and Showpath said that Phinarose is running the contest so it's her decision. I went to Phinarose on that basis, and not that she agreed with me.
I disagreed with Phinarose personally with the duration, but I accepted that it was her decision to make as she had approval from both administrators.

They contacted me along with other staff members asking what it had meant. You weren't active, so I nor anyone else had means of contacting you through Slack.
If you make an arbitrary decision on specific discussed subjects without the consent or knowledge of anyone with an incredibly vague and cryptic message, why should any fellow moderator be expected to uphold your sentence?

Mega Lamb wrote:

You told me that. You said you considered your position to be "Negotiator" and nothing more, because you insisted on arguing against me when I kept saying you're a developer, and you kept denying it. If you had accepted and said you were a developer from the start, we would never have had the argument in the first place over what your position on the team was.
It's so nice you like to be so clear.

No I didn't.

Mega Lamb wrote:

I said it when I joined the team, and I'll say it again now. Non-disclosure agreements would help to prevent this sort of thing happening, as I have no inclination nor loyalty to the team to keep any secrets. I respect privacy, but in matters that are directly related to the community as a whole, I don't see why most of this information should be kept from them, and I am not at liberty to keep any secrets.

You just stated that you gave information about updates unrelated to the community as the whole, things like contests and campaigns. I didn't sign a NDA either, and yet you constantly **** towards me for speaking about acquisition matters.

Mega Lamb wrote:

XxAtillaxX wrote:
You are going to act like you had no knowledge of my involvement when I've been extremely clear about it?
I've stated that I helped out with development and was negotiating an acquisition for quite a while now.
I'm entirely certain I've disclosed my fairly limited role on these forums, as well as in the fan Discord server.
The statements I believe you have made were that you were brought on by NVD to negotiate with a potential owner, and you have occasionally been asked to help the developers. At no point have you "made clear" that you are an official Everybody Edits developer, or the community would not have the natural reaction of genuinely not knowing that you are.

When did I make the statement that I'm an "official Everybody Edits developer"?

Mega Lamb wrote:

Why do you think I purposely did take a step back by quitting the team? Atilla says he played no part in my resignation, and yet, if he weren't part of the team at all, I wouldn't have resigned. That's also why I've explicitly stated that, if the staff would like me to continue to help, I would like no communication with Atilla in any fashion in regards to the content.

You made that decision yourself. I didn't say I didn't play any part in your resignation, I said I'm not at fault for you deciding to leave because you're upset towards me. It isn't a requirement for you to like everyone on the staff to be a part of the staff.

Mega Lamb wrote:

As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.

It isn't, and it doesn't cost any more to run and serve. I don't know where you're getting that from, because that hasn't been stated at all by any of the staff.
I don't know whether you are intentionally misinterpreting everything to make your point, but it definitely seems that way. I'm unsure if this behaviour is the "Logician" you incessantly label yourself as.

Phinarose · 2017-11-27 05:43:08

I thought it would be beneficial for me to clear some things up regarding what has been said in this thread. First off, Megalamb was demoted by Atilla, and this was done as a precaution because Megalamb was upset at that point in time and could have potentially abused his power, but let me clarify, I am not indicating that he would do such a thing. However, Megalamb's moderator status was eventually given back to him after the incident and at no point during that time frame did anyone tell Megalamb that he must leave the team. Megalamb chose to resign from the team, no one forced him to go and I personally did not want him to leave the staff. There is no question that Megalamb and I have gotten into disagreements regarding certain matters, one of those being the contest leaks.

Most people know the story by now, and to keep it short, Megalamb and I disagreed on which of the two persons involved should be banned the longest. Due to this disagreement, I decided that we should get the other opinions from the staff regarding the issue so that we could finally come to an agreement. However, this did not happen due to arguments that ensued between both Megalamb and Atilla, which really disappointed me because I just wanted to finally put an end to the case. Megalamb tries to make himself seem to be the one who did nothing wrong, but he has said some things that shouldn't have been said, but I am not solely placing the blame on Megalamb. There is no doubt that there was tension between both Atilla and Megalamb, and this often would spark arguments between the two, but like I said Megalamb participated in these arguments just as much as Atilla did.

After a couple of days of trying to resolve the issue, I finally asked Megalamb again if we could just finally come to a compromise, but he told me that he was "no longer working there", and to which I was surprised to hear, and asked "What?" but received no reply from him. In a way, this did not surprise me because once before he has threatened to resign from the staff, and this again was because he was angry over a disagreement that had happened. He even told me that he went as far as writing a draft for a post on the forums about his resignation, but after he was no longer angry he said that he did not plant to resign. This time I thought the same thing would likely happen, after he blew some steam he would be fine and be ready to talk about a compromise to the punishments, however, he left with no sign of returning.

Another thing I wanted to mention. I did tell Megalamb that Atilla did remove the ban of one of the people who was involved in the contest leaks before approaching me about it. Not long after making the statement, I realized that Atilla did, in fact, ask me before removing it but I got confused with something else which led me to make the false statement. This is essentially what happened: I got a message saying that this said person was no longer banned on EE, which made no sense because they were still banned. It then occurred to me that the account was only ip banned, which meant that this person must have been using a VPN to bypass the ban. In response, I did tell Atilla about what happened and asked him to check whether the account was still banned and he told me it was and that Megalamb had put an actual ban on the account, to which I was not happy about. The reason why I was not happy about it was that at that point in time we were still discussing which of the two people involved would be banned the longest, and Megalamb knew this and still decided to ban the account. This is when Atilla asked me if he should remove the ban and I told him to do it because when Megalamb was online, I would make another attempt to come to an agreement on the ban lengths. I did not have Atilla remove the ban just to spite Megalamb or anything, I just thought that it should have been properly discussed before implementing the ban again that way there would be less hassle in changing the ban length.

The last thing I wanted to bring up is when Megalamb called me an "ungrateful *****". He thought I was being ungrateful because I brought up a recurrent issue that was going on with Megalamb and I asked him why it happened again when he had told me previously that it would no longer be an issue. This led to him lashing out at me and calling me ungrateful because he did a lot of the work for the contest and that I didn't seem to care about anything he did for it. At no point in time did I ever say that I was ungrateful for what he had done for the contest, and I even told Megalamb that he did do a lot for the contest because he did, really did do a lot for it. However, this seems to be taken out of context to make it seem like I was the bad guy in that I didn't care for anything that he has done.

To be truthful, I wish this drama would be put to rest because the only thing I see is that it will be drawn out for a long time. I am not someone who wants to be in the middle of an argument which is why I decided to create the post. I want to make clear that even though there have been times that Megaamb has lashed out at me, I still do not think he should have left the team. I really did not think he meant it when he told me that he no longer worked for EE, but he did and it's unfortunate that he decided to leave. In regards to Atilla, I was told that once he joined the team that he was there because he helped out as a dev and at the time he did not want people to know that he was a dev. However, it then eventually came out that Atilla was apart of the staff when he discussed that we were talking to a potential new owner, which is still showing some progression. Megalamb has even asked me what Atilla's role was on the staff and I told him that Atilla was a dev from what I could recall, after all that was what Atilla was doing. I am not sure if Megalamb did not believe me or what, but he still had confusion about Atilla's role.

Like I said, I do not want to be in the middle of this argument and do not hold any hard feelings against Megalamb, and I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.

N1KF

N1KF · 2017-11-27 06:08:18

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I don't need (nor does anyone) to respect you merely for being a fellow staff member.

That's a harmful attitude.

XxAtillaxX · 2017-11-27 06:26:25

N1KF wrote:

XxAtillaxX wrote:
I don't need (nor does anyone) to respect you merely for being a fellow staff member.
That's a harmful attitude.

It's harmful to worship people merely on the basis of their status or position. I think human decency is a given, but I don't think respect is a right. I think it should be earned.
I respect people enough to consider what they have to say, and I care enough to give my opinions as I wish for them to improve their reasoning and to consider the similar bare minimum of respect equally.

Different55 · 2017-11-27 06:42:55

XxAtillaxX wrote:

N1KF wrote:
XxAtillaxX wrote:
I don't need (nor does anyone) to respect you merely for being a fellow staff member.
That's a harmful attitude.
It's harmful to worship people merely on the basis of their status or position. I think human decency is a given, but I don't think respect is a right. I think it should be earned.
I respect people enough to consider what they have to say, and I care enough to give my opinions as I wish for them to improve their reasoning and to consider the similar bare minimum of respect equally.

That's what most people mean by respect. For most people respect = not actively being disrespectful. A reasonable amount of respect is given by default, even if you don't respect the person quite yet. And the default respect can be lost if they earn that. But if you tell someone you don't respect them what you're saying is that you're denying them even that default respect and that just makes it sound like you're being a giant jerk even if you aren't. No idea if that makes sense but hey.

tl;dr: there's a difference between respecting someone and giving them respect.

N1KF, Xenonetix, BuzzerBee, MartenM, Harmonious, mrjawapa, Slabdrill, liammatey

Xenonetix · 2017-11-27 10:42:02

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If that represents a lack of respect for fellow staff members, then by the very same standards you have a lack of respect as well, since you lashed out at Phinarose calling her an ungrateful ****.

I have apologized for it multiple times, and explained my reasoning publicly. Yes, I lashed out in a moment of madness. What more would you like me to say on the matter?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If you had, you likely would've had your moderator privileges restored within a day if you had spoken to NVD, which I had insisted upon.

I don't recall any instance of you telling me to speak to NVD, who was not on at any point within the 22 hours (approximately) between you removing my privileges, and my resignation. You removed them before I went to work, and then I woke up the following day just before I went to work to find none of the staff has reinstated them, so I don't know why you seem to believe they would have been restored within a day when they weren't.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

That's grounds for firing let alone temporarily taking away your abilities as to prevent you from doing any other harm in wake of your tantrum(s).

...in your 'professional' opinion. It would have been up to NVD whether to "fire" me. You still had no right to make that decision on his behalf. Also, "other harm" in what sense? What harm was I doing to anyone but yourself? Even that wasn't harmful to you, as you well know, so I wasn't doing harm to anyone at all.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I go on to further state that while I did temporarily remove your moderator privileges, I however didn't force you to quit, you left on your own accord.

I don't know why you keep cycling back around to this weak counterpoint. If you hadn't have removed the privileges, I wouldn't have taken any further moderator actions related to the situation, and I wouldn't have left. I said before I went to bed that: "If I haven't had my modship reinstated by the time I wake up, I will have no choice but to quit." How was I supposed to do anything in this voluntary 'job' if I had no tools to do it? It was a 9 hour period in which any one of you, Jesse, or Showpath could have reinstated my modship, and chose not to.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I stated that I had no power in the context of firing people, which I don't. I took a precautionary action and I'm fully responsible for doing so - it's entirely up to Niels whether I've done anything wrong, or if anyone has.

As you've used the term "firing" in what you consider to be an employment analogy, then the closest I could term your actions (based on your logic) would be "Putting me on suspension". If this is true, you still have no authoritative right to do so, as you well know, because the only person with "hiring and firing" duties would be NVD. If NVD were considered the 'manager', and Jesse and Showpath were considered the 'supervisors', then the supervisors would report the incident to the manager, and the manager would make the decision whether to suspend or fire the employee based on their actions. Please tell me what you consider your position to be in this analogy? No matter what it is, unless you're actually the co-owner of Everybody Edits, I can't see how you had the right to remove my modship.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

He wasn't. I looked at Slack and seen nobody online aside from yourself. Is there any evidence to suggest that he was?

NVD said he was, so please feel free to take that up with him.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

No it isn't. In both instances I provided the exact reasons for doing so, and any reasonable person would have acted the same if they had an angry staff member lashing out at them and everyone else for that matter, in the first instance.

If any reasonable person would have acted the same way removing powers from within Everybody Edits over an incident that occurred outside of Everybody Edits (in Slack in this case), then any reasonable person would also have taken the action to punish someone within Everybody Edits over an incident that occurred outside of Everybody Edits (in Slack in this case).

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Mega Lamb wrote:
No, but the anonymous hacker that refuses to out himself to the community as staff because he likes to have all the power behind the scenes and wants to continue being unpleasant to the community for his own dramatic amusement is a relatively good indication.
I think it's unfair to outright claim and rationalize anything I do as nefarious merely on the basis of anonymity.

Fine, remove the word "anonymous". The point still stands.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I'm not seeking any power.

Of course you're not, because you've already been given all the power you could possibly be given. Why would anyone who has all the power seek "any power"?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It isn't my decision to reinstate your privileges.

If it isn't your decision (or 'right') to reinstate them, then it couldn't have been your rightful decision to have removed them in the first place.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

My intention was for you to speak to him about the actions you took directly before I revoked your privileges.

You claimed that any reasonable person would have removed my privileges to achieve that aim. I would argue that any reasonable person would have simply said: "I think you should speak to NVD about this, and we can discuss it further after that happens." and then refused to reply until I had spoken to NVD. As it was, I believe you removed my modship as an abuse of your own power, a demonstration that you have more power, and a way to increase the drama to entertain yourself.

---------------------------------

XxAtillaxX wrote:

"Who are you?" - Hi. I'm Atilla Lonny, which is obviously an alias - in person, I'm known as Allie.
"How old are you? - I'm currently 19 years of age, soon to be 20.
"What is your job" - I currently work as a contractor for various security firms and corporations.
"Do you have a family or social life" - I do have a family, although I don't speak with them incredibly often. I don't have many friends here, but there's a few I interact with semi-regularly.
"What are your hobbies" - I enjoy recreational programming and graphics designing, and occasionally discussing politics and philosophy.
Now, your turn.
Who are you? How old are you? If a logician falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, do they make a sound? Why haven't we had sex yet?

"Who are you?" - I'm Chris Lamb, which is obviously not an alias. People call me Chris in person.
"How old are you? - I've just turned 31 years of age, with my birthday in November.
"If a logician falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, do they make a sound?" Of course - They're heard by the logician themselves, unless they're deaf. Nevertheless, even the tree question, whilst it's meant to be philosophical and a metaphor, is somewhat ridiculous, because sound waves are produced by the tree falling in the forest, whether anyone is around to receive them or not.
"Why haven't we had sex yet?" The two of us together? Presumably a multitude of reasons, including that we live in different countries and we've never met in person to my knowledge. If you mean "we" as in each of us individually, I couldn't speak on behalf of yourself, but I have.

Although you may not see the relevance, it makes you a more amenable and relatable as an individual, making it easier to communicate with you in general. It makes you seem less like a robot.

---------------------------------

XxAtillaxX wrote:

You heard it here, and at least you admit it.
- I believe that the Everybody Edits Staff Slack is directly related to EE itself, so it's justifiable to ban someone in EE for offensive language in Slack.
- I made the argument months ago that I thought forum and in-game bans should go hand in hand, because the forums were directly related to the game.
I can think of many people here who would love to be banned in-game for things they said on the forums!

You say this as if it's a bad thing. Thousands of online communities have official forums that are directly linked to actions on both the forums and in their games. People are regularly banned in the games and the forums at the same time for the same period of time. The Everybody Edits community is an anomaly from a forum-to-game connection point of view.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

You went ahead and banned my community account for calling you a rude name on a forum outside of the game. You disagreed with the consensus but yet you went ahead and did so anyway out of pure rage and immaturity.
By that standard, you should've been banned by Phinarose and have had your moderator abilities taken away as to not skirt the ban, after having called her an ungrateful ****.

I agree that, if Phina wished to do so, she had every right to ban me, but having my mod abilities taken away makes no sense. If I'm banned, I can't take actions from outside the game, and, while banned, I can access the external tools, including the moderation tool and the campaign manager tool, so there would be no reason to take away my abilities, because the ban does that job for a determined amount of time. I would not have circumvented the ban if I were banned.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I removed your moderator privileges because you went out of your way to do thing incredibly spiteful and uncalled for action.

Calling me the N-word was called for? Sounds like an incredibly spiteful and uncalled for action to me to have called me it. As such, I would like to remove your developer privileges, because you went out of your way to do things incredibly spiteful and uncalled for.

The very nature of "abusing your power" is having it to abuse. You have far more power than I do, and they say "With great power comes great responsibility", and yet your actions have been immensely irresponsible, including your behaviour towards other members of the community in-game and on the forums. The reason you didn't want to be revealed as a member of staff was so that you could have the excuse to continue being callous and irresponsible in your nature towards the community for your own amusement. You mention elsewhere in this post that you knew that you'd receive negative attention from some particular individuals, but if you take responsibility for your own actions, you should be taking responsibility for your personality as well, because the only reason people have negative thoughts towards you is because of how you have acted and behaved in the past, as that's all the community has to go on.

For all I know, you're simply a misunderstood individual, but the way you have come across on these forums for years has been as a villainous figure, who simply hacks things to get what they want (because they can) when they disagree with someone else's opinion or point of view. You're a very opinionated person who doesn't like being told they're wrong, and rarely seeks feedback. When you do seek feedback, you seem to do it for approval you were right rather than genuinely asking for help to improve on something. You are seemingly oblivious of your own power, as you do things most people don't have the ability to do without a moment's thought, as an instant reaction to something that happens, because you believe it to be the right thing to do in your mind, and try to justify it later on. If people disagree with your justification, you take the shortcut of setting out to punish the people who disagree with you instead of discussing the issues with an open mind as adults should do.

To simplify this a little, although I know you don't need it simplified - Before you were given developer powers: Let's say a user called '69AtillaSucks69' is roaming Everybody Edits spamming "Atilla Sucks" everywhere (or, obviously, much worse). Any regular community member would "Report Abuse" as an inappropriate username or for spamming, and a moderator would probably ban the account. If a moderator were to see it, they would ban them anyway. If you see it, I feel like you're far more likely to hack their account, find out their IP address, find out alternative accounts they have, track down email accounts, hack into their email accounts, delete many of their emails, possibly send a bunch of inappropriate emails out for a laugh, and if they'd really **** you off, you'd find a way to hack into their bank accounts and steal money from them anonymously, but probably not given to yourself, but by spending it on something lavish that ends up being delivered to an offshore island somewhere for you to pick up in 7 years' time.

That is the sort of person you come across as, whether you intend for you to be that sort of person or not. Kids and teens are terrified of you as an individual, and don't want to stand up to you as a result. If they say one negative thing towards you, they're worried you will somehow ruin their life forever, because it would be so simple for you to do so. You have the power of intimidation that no one else in this community, staff or otherwise, has, and your actions against me are just further proof that you can do such things within seconds because you believe that's the best way to deal with something in the immediate short-term. As such, you come across as a dictator.

If you said to NVD, "if you don't start paying me such-and-such an amount on a weekly basis, I'll DDoS the game, and prevent all players from purchasing any more gems," I believe NVD would do it, because he wouldn't have any way to stop you. If you suddenly have a disagreement with NVD one day, I dread to think what the consequences would be on the game as a whole, and there would be no one who could stop you.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I interpreted it as a direct threat to cause damage as it's entirely uncalled for and unnecessary.

That was your interpretation, but if you claim to be so rational yourself, your mind wouldn't immediately go to the idea of "retaliation". Such things are to be discussed, and it wasn't a threat, so much as a veiled attempt to show there are consequences to your actions. You make so many staff decisions yourself that you claim don't concern you. Well, if they don't concern you, quite frankly, shut up and stop interfering then.

Would you like to know why I banned you? I did it to prove my point. The point was that, no matter what action were taken against you for your actions, you would use your power to instantly reverse and/or negate it because you disagreed with it. If anything, you then took that point a step further by not only using that power, but abusing it as well.

Having proved the point, it showed me you were unwilling to ever change your personality, and that proved I could no longer work with or alongside you ever. Regardless of what you said earlier about your role (or lack thereof) in my resignation, if you were never part of the team, it's likely I would never have resigned, even at any point in the future.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Kira banned a player for their actions outside of the game and was removed by the staff. I didn't make that decision, the staff including Niels did.

Kira wasn't only removed for that one incident. Kira's removal was discussed amongst the staff (apparently, although I still have no recollection of that discussion). Your decision to demod me was not discussed. You also admitted earlier that you were the one to demod Kira, and without discussion until after you did so, so I'm not sure how you expect this to be a reasonable argument on your side, because I agree with you. The staff should make the decision as a whole, not you.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If an employee were to lash out on another employee (regardless of position) kicking them out of the business, would it not be acceptable to temporarily prevent that employee from interacting with customers as though they're representative of the company until the CEO gets involved?

Correct. It would not be acceptable. If you ever work for a company where you're not freelance, good luck in passing your probation period with that attitude.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

[NVD] stated that I should have consulted with him, and I would've, but that isn't possible when he isn't online.

So you should have waited until he was online, and consulted with him, as he asked you to do. You're fully aware there was nothing I could do as a moderator, no matter how terrible, that you couldn't have reversed yourself, including clearing worlds and saving them (which I would never have done anyway however irrational I seemed), because of your World Backup, so it was in no way a 'pressing matter' where you HAD to remove my privileges there and then.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Mega Lamb wrote:
So what happens to you when you are irrational? Who controls your actions?
I'm just as responsible as you are, or anyone else for that matter, for any actions I take.

So you're the only one who controls your actions, and you control everyone else's actions, but I'm not allowed to control my actions because you control my actions for me, and you want me to take responsibility for the actions you're making me do?

As NVD put it on November 6th:

This still hasn't been decided, and, as a result, you seem to think that gives you free reign to do whatever the hell you want. It's unacceptable.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Mega Lamb wrote:
This is not the story Phina gave - Phina said you had already made the bans, and asked if it was fine that you DID remove them. She said yes to that, and that is not the same.
I asked her prior to removing them and she agreed. I asked her and quoted you, and she replied acknowledging that I did ask her first. I would assume that it was likely a misapprehension on her part, likely swayed by the false narratives you like to set up.

And you were doing so well up until this point in the post in not directly insulting me. I take great offence to the idea that I EVER set up false narratives, because I never do. If anyone from the #staff section of the Slack could provide a screenshot of Phina's comments from the past week before I left the team, it would be appreciated, to show I am basing everything I say on exactly what was said.

You have regularly contradicted yourself in your narratives. I have never altered the timeline or contradicted myself at any point within the last week. Please feel free to try to prove me otherwise, and if you do, I will clarify my position, because I like to be clear.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I think it's especially immature to analogize anything of that sort to rape in any instance, are you serious?

I'm deadly serious, and it's immature not to take rape seriously. You've regularly ignored my analogies, so I took one to the extreme to get my point across, because no matter how I put it, you don't seem to listen.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I didn't do any workaround. You banned them, left for around a day, came back for a few minutes, saw that they were banned, and left for another day.
The reason you provided for banning them in the ban message was "Do not attempt to hurt others" or something vague to that effect.

Let me stop you right there. As I established in the staff chat, this was due to a lack of communication over moderator training, because, as I said, I was unaware ban messages for IPbans do not show to the person banned. I was also unaware that an IPban does not also temporarily ban the account for the same period of time, but just the IP address.

The original reason (with the IP ban) I gave to TheGame was along the lines of "Please refrain from attempting to seek revenge by trying to hurt people mentally or emotionally. Do not hurt people." Having reasonably presumed TheGame would have seen that message, when I found out he was not banned, I attempted to correct the ban by giving the same ban length as a temporary ban with the message "Do not attempt to hurt people." as the message, BELIEVING he had already seen the first message, so it was unnecessary to put the full ban message in again.

This then appeared to be misconstrued by Atilla as an "unreasonable ban reason", when I was completely unaware that TheGame had not seen the original message in the first place. Atilla's reaction to this was to suggest I was abusing my power, and, rather than discussing it with the person who made the ban rationally, he took it upon himself to reverse the ban.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

They contacted me along with other staff members asking what it had meant. You weren't active, so I nor anyone else had means of contacting you through Slack.

So why the hell did they contact you of all people? Why would you have known what it meant? You said yourself you don't get involved in matters of moderation, so why the crapballs would the rest of the staff go to you instead of wait for me to come online to explain? Once again, it wasn't a pressing matter that had to be dealt with there and then, so why did you take action based on your own assumptions of what had happened?

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If you make an arbitrary decision on specific discussed subjects without the consent or knowledge of anyone with an incredibly vague and cryptic message [see above], why should any fellow moderator be expected to uphold your sentence?

You're not a fellow moderator. Other moderators do not have the ability to reverse other moderators' actions, exactly for the reason that they're supposed to be discussed with the moderators who made the action. If you had discussed it with me, it could have been cleared up.

You keep saying no one had the knowledge that I planned to ban TheGame, and yet the screenshot in Minimania's original post shows that I said exactly that, and I said it to everyone. Please stop accusing me of not talking to anyone about it when I actively tried to talk to people about it, and everyone ignored me. Stop putting me in your shoes as someone who has regularly taken actions without discussing them, when I keep trying not to take any action without discussing it AT LENGTH first.

Mega Lamb wrote:

You said you considered your position to be "Negotiator" and nothing more.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

No I didn't.

You did. I never brought up the word "negotiator" or called you a "negotiator". That is the term you decided to explain yourself as being when I asked what we should be telling the community you are if they were to ask, and believe me, they've asked a LOT since you said it, and I've always answered the answer you wanted me to give them (although usually worded as "He considers himself a negotiator"). Once again, you got your way, and now you're denying it, presumably to produce more yet unnecessary drama.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

You just stated that you gave information about updates unrelated to the community as the whole, things like contests and campaigns.

Firstly, how are they unrelated to the community as the whole? If anything, contests and campaigns couldn't possibly be more related to the community as a whole...

Secondly, if all of us had signed NDAs, then it would have been legally binding for any discussions within the staff chat to have permanently stayed private, whether people left the team or not, and forever after a person leaves the team. As none of us signed NDAs, there was nothing stopping us from going to the community over anything staff-related, and yet:

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I didn't sign a NDA either, and yet you constantly **** towards me for speaking about acquisition matters.

I constantly did that simply because it was a double standard. You and Phina seemed to be having a huge go at me over discussing anything with the community at all, while you were discussing stuff with the community all the time. Why did you get the luxury of discussing it when I couldn't? I was doing it for the greater good of trying to give the community what they wanted, and you were doing it to produce more drama, and stagnate the forum community.

You always seem to be of the opinion that you don't have to explain yourself, and people should just trust you, but trust is earned by people explaining themselves. I accept I may over-explain myself at times, but I think that's far better than under-explaining myself, and those explanations can build up a level of trust, because people can understand your intentions better as a person. If you just say "I'm dealing with negotiations. Trust me." - That's a demand, forcing people to "trust" you because they have no choice, and that's a terrible way to build any level of trust, because that's yet another move of a dictator, and there's nothing anyone can say to sway you to change what you're doing to achieve your own aims.

While we're at it, I didn't even go on at you that much over that specifically. I did say that the less you speak on the subject, the less drama there would be, and your reaction to that immediately appeared to be to speak more on the subject, and more drama was produced, so interpret that as you wish.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

When did I make the statement that I'm an "official Everybody Edits developer"?

Exactly. You didn't. That wasn't particularly clear of you, was it? Y'know, considering you are an' all.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I said I'm not at fault for you deciding to leave because you're upset towards me.

Never said you were at fault for that. I 'decided' to leave because of your action to remove my modship, and it not be re-instated. The staff had plenty of time to re-instate it, but chose not to, so what choice do I have but to interpret that as a vote in favour of me not being responsible enough to have moderator powers? It was your action that I blame you for (as you so insisted actions should be the only thing considered in such instances, and not intentions), and the action was what led to my resignation, because if the action hadn't happened, the resignation would never have happened.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

It isn't a requirement for you to like everyone on the staff to be a part of the staff.

You finally agree you're part of the staff now?

As you know, I've disagreed and disliked you for months, and that hasn't made me want to resign. I'm fully aware it's not a requirement to like everyone you work with, as is the case in my paid workplace, where I get on with about 95% of the staff, but 5% of the staff make my life hell. I'm not going to quit my job because I don't get along with 5% of the people working there. I know it would never be a 100% hit rate on working with people in a team of any more than about 6 people.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

Mega Lamb wrote:
As far as I am aware, Unity was finished a long time ago, ready for launch, but Unity costs a lot more to run and serve than Flash does, so unless there is any investor funding, Unity is an unreasonable option as a business decision in the current state of the game.
It isn't, and it doesn't cost any more to run and serve. I don't know where you're getting that from, because that hasn't been stated at all by any of the staff.

It was stated by Nou, and possibly NVD, or possibly both. I can't remember, it was quite awhile ago. Either way, I've just double-checked, and Unity is a subscription service no matter how it's looked at, which means the subscription cost to use Unity will be in addition to the server running costs, making it more expensive to run.

If I am mistaken, thank you for announcing the launch of Everybody Edits Unity! Naturally, there's no reason not to release it now if it costs the same! This is amazingly good news!

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I don't know whether you are intentionally misinterpreting everything to make your point.

I never intentionally misinterpret anything. It's possible I interpret things incorrectly, but never by choice.

liammatey

Xenonetix · 2017-11-27 12:18:10

phinarose wrote:

Megalamb's moderator status was eventually given back to him after the incident and at no point during that time frame did anyone tell Megalamb that he must leave the team.

Presuming "the incident" in question was the one from November 5th-6th, then yes, I was given the powers back by Showpath after I had to ask him to give them back to me, because they would not have been given back to me otherwise.

If you mean the more recent incident, I was never given the moderator "status" back. My name stayed purple, but that was it. For all intents and purposes, I was nothing more than a regular player with a purple name. Having asked the staff to reinstate the 'moderator status', I was hoping at least one of them would, but they didn't. As such, I resigned, and I didn't claim that anyone said I must leave, but as I stated in my resignation post, I left for personal reasons, and those reasons were stress-related.

phinarose wrote:

Megalamb chose to resign from the team, no one forced him to go

I did choose to the resign from the team, but I would still argue that it was Atilla who forced me to go. If he hadn't removed the modship, I wouldn't have resigned. Simple as that.

phinarose wrote:

I personally did not want him to leave the staff.

I appreciate that, thank you.

phinarose wrote:

Megalamb tries to make himself seem to be the one who did nothing wrong, but he has said some things that shouldn't have been said.

I accept I sometimes make mistakes, and I don't profess to doing nothing wrong, but I can usually reasonably and justifiably argue that Atilla does more wrong than I do, which makes me seem worse by comparison.

phinarose wrote:

I am not solely placing the blame on Megalamb.

Again, I appreciate that, thanks.

phinarose wrote:

once before he has threatened to resign from the staff

I never considered it a "threat". I fully intended on resigning that first time, and it was only when NVD spoke to me at length that he convinced me my work was appreciated, and I should stay, so I stayed on his behalf.

phinarose wrote:

After a couple of days of trying to resolve the issue, I finally asked Megalamb again if we could just finally come to a compromise, but he told me that he was "no longer working there", and to which I was surprised to hear, and asked "What?" but received no reply from him.

This is where communication falls down so spectacularly amongst the staff. I very explicitly said that I would resign if my modship wasn't reinstated in the "general" section of the Staff Slack. 9 hours later, it wasn't reinstated, so I resigned. There was no conundrum, nothing fancy, no puzzle to solve. It was a simple instruction (not even a demand), and, as the staff did not reinstate my modship, I quit, exactly as I said I would.

I would have hoped people know me well enough by now to know that if I make a promise, I deliver on it to the best of my abilities, no matter what. As a lot of people know by now, I word things in a very specific manner, so if I say something as simply outright as the fact I'll resign if my modship isn't reinstated by the time I wake up, and I go to bed, and wake up, and find out Atilla, Jesse, and Showpath were all online at the very moment I came back online, only to find none of them had reinstated it, then you can bet your sweet nelly that I'm resigning. I shouldn't have to go through the stress of asking around to get back the modship that should never have been taken away from me in the first place.

phinarose wrote:

He even told me that he went as far as writing a draft for a post on the forums about his resignation, but after he was no longer angry he said that he did not plant to resign.

Yes and no. I still planned on resigning when I was no longer angry, because I didn't want to go through that stress and anger again, and it was only after the long conversation with NVD that I no longer planned to resign.

phinarose wrote:

This time I thought the same thing would likely happen, after he blew some steam he would be fine and be ready to talk about a compromise to the punishments, however, he left with no sign of returning.

It could have been so simply avoided if Atilla wasn't selfishly throwing his power around with no regard for anyone's feelings. I even gave the other staff the option, but they also did nothing.

In regards to compromising, I TRIED to compromise. I said we should just ban them for the same length of time (as we disagreed on who should be banned longer), but apparently, that wasn't good enough for Atilla, even though he claimed to want nothing to do with moderation matters. I believe Phina's reaction was refusal to engage in anything I had to say, naturally making the situation worse because no resolution could be arrived at.

I thrive on resolution and closure.

phinarose wrote:

Another thing I wanted to mention. I did tell Megalamb that Atilla did remove the ban of one of the people who was involved in the contest leaks before approaching me about it. Not long after making the statement, I realized that Atilla did, in fact, ask me before removing it but I got confused with something else which led me to make the false statement.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

I don't know whether you are intentionally misinterpreting everything

Well, thank goodness for closure here I guess. I didn't intentionally misinterpret anything, and thanks Atilla for jumping to conclusion I must have done rather than ever entertaining the possibility that Phina made a mistake herself. People make mistakes.

phinarose wrote:

Megalamb had put an actual ban on the account, to which I was not happy about. The reason why I was not happy about it was that at that point in time we were still discussing which of the two people involved would be banned the longest, and Megalamb knew this and still decided to ban the account.

I was only banning the account for the same length of time as the ban was intended in the first place. It was purely an action to correct the mistake that we both thought the IP ban would also ban the individual accounts. I did the same for both Abysmal and TheGame, banning them for the same length as the IP bans already given. I even didn't ban Ogotu, and just left him be, but got no credit for that. Logically, I should have just gone ahead with banning all 3 of them for the times of their respective IP bans, but I knew Phina and Atilla were unapproving of my ban of Ogotu, and it wasn't major enough to raise conflict over that, so I left Ogotu be.

phinarose wrote:

This is when Atilla asked me if he should remove the ban and I told him to do it because when Megalamb was online, I would make another attempt to come to an agreement on the ban lengths. I did not have Atilla remove the ban just to spite Megalamb or anything, I just thought that it should have been properly discussed before implementing the ban again that way there would be less hassle in changing the ban length.

For future reference, if we all agreed they should be banned for at least a few days, then it didn't matter whether the bans were in place or not, and they shouldn't have been reversed until the new length of time had been established, so the ban could have lasted, for example, 6 days, and if we agreed 10 days was the right amount, we'd all agree and co-ordinate it so that the bans were reversed by an admin, and a moderator would be ready to ban again immediately for the remaining 4 days.

There isn't much reasoning behind the idea of: "This person has been put in prison for a sentence of 6 months. After 7 days in prison, we think this turns out to have been too long a term, so we'll just let them free for a few days until we decide how long they should be re-imprisoned for (even though we all agree there's a minimum of 3 months for this crime). Congratulations! Have no punishment whatsoever until we get our acts together and decide that you should actually have been imprisoned for 4 months instead of 6. The criminal would still be kept in holding during the time of the renewed debating over the sentence.

So, based on that, why was there any reason at all for Atilla to reverse any of the bans, or even bring up the question of whether the bans should be reversed at all, unless he's either biased because he's good friends with the accused, or he just wants to show off his power and make an example of a moderator who may have made a mistake?

phinarose wrote:

At no point in time did I ever say that I was ungrateful for what he had done for the contest, and I even told Megalamb that he did do a lot for the contest because he did, really did do a lot for it. However, this seems to be taken out of context to make it seem like I was the bad guy in that I didn't care for anything that he has done.

Although I appreciate the sentiment here, I think we have very different opinions over the nature of gratitude. Generally, I consider someone saying "Thank you for what you've done," as a form of gratitude. I don't believe I should be naturally presuming everyone is constantly grateful of work I am doing until someone says "I am ungrateful" (which I'm relatively sure isn't a thing people ever actually say anyway). Even a simple "Thanks" or "I appreciate that" would not go amiss from time to time, and that goes to everyone amongst the staff, because no one thanks anyone else for anything amongst this staff team, at least in the group areas, apart from myself that I've seen. If I haven't thanked people in the group areas, I usually try to go out of my way to thank them in private message, simply because it's the decent human thing to do.

Prior to me claiming any of the staff were ungrateful, I had not been thanked or shown appreciation by any of the staff since I joined the team. I apologise if I'm mis-remembering that to be the case, but after I said that about Phina, it was NVD's gracious appreciation that led me to staying on the team in the first place, because a switch in my brain immediately flicked when he gave me praise, because it showed my work hadn't gone unrecognised and unappreciated, and that I was actually making some sort of a positive difference that at least one member of staff (thankfully the owner in this case) had noticed. It's possible that other members of staff had noticed as well, but none of them were giving me any indication of that.

I rarely ask for credit, and I do a lot of things without expecting credit in many situations, but credit isn't the same as thanks. Credit is just showing (or noticing) the name of someone for something they did, whether positive or negative, but appreciation takes it a step further than that, as it's usually a sign of gratitude for something positive.

With that in mind, I would like to thank the following individuals (in no particular order) for showing me gratitude and support in the Everybody Edits community over long periods of time:

NVD, Kirby, Showpath, Toop, Nou, Supermouk, JeffBurtonFan, Zoey2070, AK712, Cercul1, RavaTroll, TheGame, Sensei1, Bee, MIHB, Master1, MFL, Mustang, BuzzerBee, Different55, JaWapa, Hanhan, CommanderKitten, MrShoe, Kankurou, Cola1, Capasha/Doh, TakoMan02, Thanel, Koya, RayofLight, Thwinkt, Spiderman, Aslai, KingoftheOzone, Treejoe4, Tork, Ephrayam, Cyclone, Rurigok, Alesmile, Jaa, AbysmalAxeofSilence, Lictor, LickAGoat, Oray, Latif, Whirl, DanielCool1, Dazz, XJeex. DKLevels, Muffin, Tiralmo, Xfrogman43, Well, Daniel1234, Tifennie, Wambo, Matt, MacandCheese, Krazyman50, SmittyW, RPGMaster2000, TheCoolGuy, Cyph1e, Theditor, Jak, Bobithan, DCLevels, Kaleb, Starblinky, CJMaeder, Eleizibeth, Oranj, SquadFS, AzurePudding, Unau, Musicman, Emalton,
&
Benjaminsen

phinarose wrote:

I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors.

Thank you. You too.

#closure

Latif, mutantdevle, Pig, MartenM, Slabdrill, Different55, liammatey

Zumza · 2017-11-27 13:05:49

Most of you are not worthy of any respect on how you literally f****d this community in doggy style.

Vinyl Melody

TaskManager · 2017-11-27 14:04:53

wow im not on the list this is rigged

Harmonious, Pig, Slabdrill, Vinyl Melody

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