Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

Adolytsi · 2015-07-31 01:30:19

I think people who still want to edit their worlds after they've been added to a campaign aren't considering what could potentially happen if that were allowable. Basically, a world should be as close to perfect as it can be before it's added to a campaign, meaning there should be no exploits or bugs possible (or as few as can be managed), so that a world can be added to a campaign and not need to be edited afterwards. At all. If a world in a campaign can be edited by its owner, what's to stop owners from editing the level to add bypasses or to help out people having trouble, which as nice as that is, is basically cheating now that there will be tangible rewards on the line for these people to beat the worlds legitimately. And to those that want to watch people playing the level, there's still spectate mode.

With that said, I'm in agreement with Calicara and, to some extent, Buzzerbee; campaign worlds should be copies of the original world at the time they are accepted into the campaign, and in that copy, nobody can edit. If people want to edit their worlds after they're in a campaign, they can: the non-campaign copy is still a regular world in the lobby list, and can be updated and spectated and god-moded like any other world. But the campaign version of the world will remain unchanged from when it was made a campaign world. That's the only way to do it that gives no leeway to people potentially exploiting the system to get them or others the rewards when they or the others have not actually earned them.

EDIT: I'd also be for having a separate tab in the lobby for the campaign copies of worlds, and have those copies not show up in any of the other tabs so as to not cause confusion.

Nou · 2015-07-31 01:31:38

some man wrote:

This whole "you can't be the owner of your world anymore if you want it to be popular" thing seems ridiculous, as with "you can only play campaign levels by yourself". I think the world and the creator's ownership should be left completely intact, even when playing in Campaign mode (add an option to get rid of the chat and other players if you think it will bother the player so much). EE is multiplayer and you should deserve the rights to modify your own world.

You understand why though I hope? The whole cheating thing? If there were no rewards then it wouldn't be an issue.

eeisold · 2015-07-31 01:39:39

I'm in favor of the copy idea for its simplicity. You take the level as it should be for campaign quality and lock it there. No cheating for anyone. World keeps the owner's name, but doesn't go on the profile in duplicate, doesn't show up in "Mine" lobby as duplicate, etc.

If they choose to do something entirely different with the level, they can.

BEE · 2015-07-31 02:38:20

some man wrote:

This whole "you can't be the owner of your world anymore if you want it to be popular" thing seems ridiculous,

If you like to edit released worlds that much after releasing them, then just don't agree when asked. If your world is so innovative that it would be considered for a campaign, then it should have no problems gaining popularity on its own.

@All wanting retain edit rights: Honestly, I see no way for the owners to maintain their edit rights in any way shape or form, if only because if the account got "hacked" then a malicious person would/could ruin the world.

Tbh, that would be a positive reason for allowing your world to be campaigned: Immortalizing it.

eeisold wrote:

World keeps the owner's name, but doesn't go on the profile in duplicate, doesn't show up in "Mine" lobby as duplicate, etc.
If they choose to do something entirely different with the level, they can.

I'm a bit confused by this so let me ask clarifying questions: let's say I make World A and it gets campaigned. World A gets copied, I keep the copy and original(which is now locked). Which one would show up in my profile? What if I erase the copy and want to use it as a new world for myself since the campaign has already immortalized my world? It wouldn't show up in my profile then? Or would the campaign one not show up? If the campaign one wouldn't show up, what would the point of copying it be instead of simply taking it from me?

iPwner · 2015-07-31 02:44:45

Nou wrote:

1. /godon /godoff for world owners after beating in campaign.
2. Edits requestable if really really needed for exploit fixes.

This is my exact opinion. Basically just make "G" still toggle godmode on/off in campaign worlds if you're the owner once you've beaten it, but remove the editing features. This should probably be really easy to code. Basically just deleting code. :>

Xfrogman43, Minimania, Nou, BEE

Krosis · 2015-07-31 03:03:36

Why not every people who enter on the campaing get to the normal world but if other people enter at the same time on this same level of the campaing the 2º people will enter on ''another'' (same things the normal campaing world have but can't interact/join players when this user is on the world) world and can't interage with no one, because people can't enter on this world, if a 3º guy enter on the same campaing world, he will be on another campaing with no one

and make a copy of the world on the player's profile, so he can freely give edit, kick, and have all his command/edit powers to this world, but not affect the campaing world

Vasum01 · 2015-07-31 03:41:43

I am in favor of the way this was originally proposed. If a lot of level creators could deal with not having edit, which they probability don't need anyway (god ability after beating it is not a bad idea) then that'd be really good.

eeisold · 2015-07-31 03:53:33

BEE.
The copy would have nothing to do with you.
Except your name.
The copy would be locked. The source material is still yours to modify, personify, delete.

BEE · 2015-07-31 03:56:36

Ah, I see, that makes sense, but I think I still would want it on my profile because I have no use for the "source" world and would likely clear it for another use. Your way could work, but then my source world would definitely not gain any plays considering how they would rather play the campaign world.

eeisold

Onjit · 2015-07-31 04:10:32

How about: The owner of the campaign mode would be able to enter and exit god mode whenever they want, but THEY CAN'T WIN. They get no rewards for winning the level, and they can't edit the level either. The same would apply to mods/guardians.

Kirby · 2015-07-31 04:22:45

Onjit wrote:

How about: The owner of the campaign mode would be able to enter and exit god mode whenever they want, but THEY CAN'T WIN. They get no rewards for winning the level, and they can't edit the level either. The same would apply to mods/guardians.

but then how do they win the campaign

iPwner

Onjit · 2015-07-31 04:37:40

Kirby wrote:

Onjit wrote:
How about: The owner of the campaign mode would be able to enter and exit god mode whenever they want, but THEY CAN'T WIN. They get no rewards for winning the level, and they can't edit the level either. The same would apply to mods/guardians.
but then how do they win the campaign

They get the win for their level instantly when their world is added.

Kirby · 2015-07-31 04:49:34

Onjit wrote:

Kirby wrote:
Onjit wrote:
How about: The owner of the campaign mode would be able to enter and exit god mode whenever they want, but THEY CAN'T WIN. They get no rewards for winning the level, and they can't edit the level either. The same would apply to mods/guardians.
but then how do they win the campaign
They get the win for their level instantly when their world is added.

Not fair for people who made the extreme type levels.

If forgotten veil gets added, do you realize how many hours that would save mustang (were he to still be playing rip)

Aoitenshi · 2015-07-31 05:24:50

How about: We get to choose whether the world we are compensated are either a copy of that world, or an empty world. That should please both sides.

Anch, Minimania, BEE

mrjawapa · 2015-07-31 05:54:09

I really don't see why not having edit would be a huge deal. Sure, with it you could help people. You could also give direct routes to trophies for insta-rewards.

Copying worlds is a mess, because then the person owns 2 worlds and plays are not counted correctly.

We're not going to make it a single player campaign. That's absurd.

We're not compensating you on anything. You're either going to let us use your world or not.

BEE · 2015-07-31 07:00:17

Aoitenshi wrote:

How about: We get to choose whether the world we are compensated are either a copy of that world, or an empty world. That should please both sides.

As long as the person made sure that the copy of the world had a sign in the beginning saying that it was a copy of the campaign version and to go to the campaign to play and get rewards, I think this idea is the best scenario and if the mods won't copy it, I can see people using a bot to copy it themselves.

eeisold, Minimania

BuzzerBee · 2015-07-31 08:18:48

Honestly, I don't see why how complicated it is should be a factor. Obviously, something more simple would be preferable, but with a big update like this, it's kind of hard to come up with a simple solution.

Here's another idea:

Take away edit rights, command access, stuff like that, but allow the owner to enter god mode from the beginning. When the owner uses god mode, however, they will be ineligible to receive the rewards from that campaign unless they rejoin the world.

JaWapa wrote:

We're not going to make it a single player campaign. That's absurd.

The only problem with this is you eliminate having any worlds with keys or other player interaction features. Unless it truly doesn't affect the gameplay at all. Even worlds like EX Crew Ice Level could not be considered because of the key minigames. It would make it unfair for other users because the playing environments would be different.

This would probably be way too complicated, but maybe players could still be able to chat and see each other play, but keys would be client-sided, not global for all players.

eeisold, Minimania, Xfrogman43

Nou · 2015-07-31 11:40:14

eeisold wrote:

BEE.
The copy would have nothing to do with you.
Except your name.
The copy would be locked. The source material is still yours to modify, personify, delete.

I had a similar to proposal before I read this; in addition to the aforementioned two points, we could make a copy of the world only accessible to the world owner and a handful of people the owner chooses for experimenting/editing in case there are exploits. That way the change can be made to the campaign quickly as well.

JaWapa wrote:

I really don't see why not having edit would be a huge deal. Sure, with it you could help people. You could also give direct routes to trophies for insta-rewards.
Copying worlds is a mess, because then the person owns 2 worlds and plays are not counted correctly.
We're not going to make it a single player campaign. That's absurd.
We're not compensating you on anything. You're either going to let us use your world or not.

Except for the free world of equal size of course

Aoitenshi wrote:

How about: We get to choose whether the world we are compensated are either a copy of that world, or an empty world. That should please both sides.

Why not both? But the copy of the world with the restrictions I mention above.

Creature · 2015-07-31 14:33:09

What about copying someone's world to yours and make it campaign? You can credit the original creator somewhere.

Kira · 2015-07-31 14:36:57

Kirby wrote:

Onjit wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Onjit wrote:
How about: The owner of the campaign mode would be able to enter and exit god mode whenever they want, but THEY CAN'T WIN. They get no rewards for winning the level, and they can't edit the level either. The same would apply to mods/guardians.
but then how do they win the campaign
They get the win for their level instantly when their world is added.
Not fair for people who made the extreme type levels.
If forgotten veil gets added, do you realize how many hours that would save mustang (were he to still be playing rip)

Mustang barely plays, also there's no hard levels in everybodyedits if you practise with Wasd

eeisold · 2015-07-31 14:38:24

Edit: ninja'd x2 (@Nou)
I like where you're going, but I feel it's necessary to emphasize how different you're going from the "copy the world" idea.

With the restrictions, the two are in essence the same world, only where a set group of people can edit when the players aren't around.

Minimania · 2015-07-31 15:10:47

If anyone remembers Platform Racing 2, you'll know what I'm about to say.

I agree with Calicara. Campaign maps should be single player to prevent cheating. If you so desperately want to cheat and look ahead into the map, you should just go play the map in Multiplayer Mode.

HOWEVER, I can see where nlmdejonge is coming from. Some people would like to complete the campaign with their friends. I suppose that is something many players would probably enjoy being added.

I propose that for campaign worlds, there should be two "Play" buttons; one for playing SinglePlayer Campaign, and one for being MultiPlayer Campaign. I ALSO think that the owners and the mods should have an option to remove either of the "Play" buttons if a map has gimmicks that don't work well with multiple people, or in multiplayer worlds.

As for emergency edits, I believe that the owner should also get a copy of the Campaign World to edit without touching the campaign mode version. If there is a physics change, or something else needs to be done, an owner should be able to report the level giving a reason why the campaign world needs to be changed (such as if something becomes impossible, or minimap colors change)

Aoitenshi, eeisold

SmittyW · 2015-07-31 15:35:01

All these complaints about "cheating."

I didn't know these campaigns were a competition...

rgl32, Shadowkirby, TiKen

Anch · 2015-07-31 15:48:07

Why do you care so much if you loose edit rights to your world (and stuff)?
I'd be more happy knowing me world was featured in a campaign than editing it. If you finished creating the world, why would you edit it more?

Shadowkirby

Kira · 2015-07-31 15:49:59

minimania wrote:

If anyone remembers Platform Racing 2, you'll know what I'm about to say.
I agree with Calicara. Campaign maps should be single player to prevent cheating. If you so desperately want to cheat and look ahead into the map, you should just go play the map in Multiplayer Mode.
HOWEVER, I can see where nlmdejonge is coming from. Some people would like to complete the campaign with their friends. I suppose that is something many players would probably enjoy being added.
I propose that for campaign worlds, there should be two "Play" buttons; one for playing SinglePlayer Campaign, and one for being MultiPlayer Campaign. I ALSO think that the owners and the mods should have an option to remove either of the "Play" buttons if a map has gimmicks that don't work well with multiple people, or in multiplayer worlds.
As for emergency edits, I believe that the owner should also get a copy of the Campaign World to edit without touching the campaign mode version. If there is a physics change, or something else needs to be done, an owner should be able to report the level giving a reason why the campaign world needs to be changed (such as if something becomes impossible, or minimap colors change)

I played Platform racing 2 for about 8 years, and Campaign mode isn't single player, it's multiplayer.

Single player mode is source of boringness which is perferably something to avoid.

I think having your level in campaign is much more rewarding than having it in profile, considering you'll never touch the finished level again. I honestly don't mind if i lose edit in my own world.

That's why they suggested the email verification, which is the best and simpliest way to deal with this all this stuff

Shadowkirby

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#51 2015-07-31 01:30:19, last edited by Adolytsi (2015-07-31 01:34:23)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#52 2015-07-31 01:31:38

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#53 2015-07-31 01:39:39

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#54 2015-07-31 02:38:20, last edited by BEE (2015-07-31 02:44:55)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#55 2015-07-31 02:44:45, last edited by iPwner (2015-07-31 02:46:38)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#56 2015-07-31 03:03:36

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#57 2015-07-31 03:41:43

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#58 2015-07-31 03:53:33

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#59 2015-07-31 03:56:36

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#60 2015-07-31 04:10:32

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#61 2015-07-31 04:22:45

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#62 2015-07-31 04:37:40

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#63 2015-07-31 04:49:34

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#64 2015-07-31 05:24:50

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#65 2015-07-31 05:54:09

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#66 2015-07-31 07:00:17

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#67 2015-07-31 08:18:48

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#68 2015-07-31 11:40:14

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#69 2015-07-31 14:33:09

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#70 2015-07-31 14:36:57

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#71 2015-07-31 14:38:24, last edited by eeisold (2015-07-31 14:39:17)

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#72 2015-07-31 15:10:47

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#73 2015-07-31 15:35:01

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#74 2015-07-31 15:48:07

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

#75 2015-07-31 15:49:59, last edited by Kira (2015-07-31 15:54:27)

Re: Campaign mode - alternative solutions discussion

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