Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-03-26 05:41:28

This post is in response to the thread "Why this game has a small community" - http://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewtopic.php?id=26958. However, I go into a lot of detail about the various issues that I see as being a problem for EE, so I thought I would post it as its own thread so it would hopefully get more exposure. With the new owners, I think there is a large opportunity to correct some of the basic problems with the game, so they can avoid the community and playerbase collapses that have always plagued the game. And that starts with understanding what EE is.

This is very long, so a TLDR:

TL;DR: EE is not a game, its a platform that lives or dies on people making interesting and enjoyable maps. And the people who make maps know: making good maps ain't nearly as easy or fun as it used to be.

5upertrinity wrote:

We all get addicted to games, and we eventually stop playing.
This game has not gotten worse (as I've heard from friends and seen myself), it's actually gotten better.
This game does not need updates to grow it's community, you're only updating it to keep these current players addicted.
You don't need to improve the game right now, you need to focus on advertising.

As one of the longest-tenured members of the community, having been creating maps since well before they could even be saved, please allow me to offer a counterargument.

Everybody Edits is not a game. Everybody Edits is a platform for user-generated content. Like any user-generated content platform, the people will only remain if there is new and interesting content, and ways of generating that content.

This seems like a trivial distinction; its not. Its very fundamental to the problems EE has, why the community collapsed over the past couple years, and why it has started to grow again in the past few months.

EE users take two roles; map creators and map players. These are somewhat analogous to posters and lurkers on a message board community, such as Reddit.

Reddit of course has a huge variety of sub-communities. There are subs like world news, with huge numbers of active posters, and subs like https://www.reddit.com/r/enlightenedbirdmen, which averages maybe 1 post a day. If they wanted to, the people from world news could migrate to plenty of smaller subs. But they stay on world news, because they are interested in the content, and there is always something interesting to talk about. Meanwhile, enlightenedbirdmen, however funny it may be, is extremely narrow in the content that appears on it, and its difficult to generate new content. Once you have seen what the sub has to offer, there isn't much further to go with it.

How does this apply to EE? For EE, the content is the maps that people create, the range of content is determined by the things a mapmaker can put in the map, and the difficulty in generating new content depends on 4 issues:

1. The interface and manipulation tools a mapmaker has for map creation
2. Knowing what other people have already made
3. Understanding what could potentially be made, given the different types of blocks a player can place in the map
4. Having or finding people who both can and want to help

If we look deeper at the implications of these 4 issues, there are seriously bad implications for the health of the community.

1. The interface and manipulation tools a mapmaker has for map creation.

These have only had minor updates for the past few years, and not because they already function at a high level. Higher level tools, like copy/pasting, filling, replacing, and so forth remain accessible only to those who have or create the bots to do so, and those bots tend to break whenever the game is updated. Even the most basic tools are not very functional: there is a single hotbar with 10 slots, but there are 12 types of keys/keyblocks alone! Using an array of different blocks to make interesting levels remains a tedious process.

2. Knowing what other people have already made

Knowing at a high level what people have already made requires getting involved in the community at a high level and seeing levels of a type you would like to make. Both of these can be very difficult, due to the lack of easy access to interesting maps (few high-quality maps get created in general, and finding old great maps requires a lot of knowledge on its own). A highly active community of experienced builders would help, but that community died hard for a long period of time. The reason for that, in my opinion, is in large part due to issue 3:

3. Understanding what could potentially be made, given the different types of blocks a player can place in the map

Here is the real problem. People really don't want to consume the same old thing over and over. They want something new. If a subreddit like enlightenedbirdmen doesn't have a supply of content that offers something new and interesting, the sub will remain small. If a sub covers a topic with a wide variety of potential content that can be created, new content will be easy to create, and there will always be something to consume, and good reason to come back for more.

Whether or not you consider it bragging, I've made or been part of making some of the most popular and influential maps the game has ever had, especially among the more experienced players who can be a huge pain in the **** to impress or please. So consider that when I say this: the well of new gameplay to be made keeps getting lower and lower, and digging deeper for something new gets harder and harder, with only updates that affect the gameplay slowing or reducing that trend. The bar for making new and interesting gameplay, if you're familiar with what has already been made, is **** high, and keeps rising. There are still interesting concepts out there that nobody has touched, but actually figuring out the concept, then putting in the work to bring that concept to reality? At the game's start, EX Crew used to put out a new map in few days of throwing around fun ideas and then a mass rush of stuffing those ideas into a map. Now a new map can take months, if not longer; Forgotten Veil (which is itself already a couple years behind the evolution of EE gameplay) took us about 2 and a half years from start to finish. Thats an extreme example, but our map output slowed down every year, with the amount of time needed to make a map getting longer and longer.

New gameplay tools can make it suddenly very easy to make a map; "LightSpeed" took us only a few days of testing how portals work before we put it out. But portals, which are years old, and boosts, which are also pretty old at this point, are the only new gameplay tools we've gotten in a long time that make a big difference. Coin doors let you make nonlinear levels, but the gameplay itself, the running and jumping, hasn't changed. Switches, same thing. Spikes and fire just fill the same purpose people already could usually do with arrows. Timed doors can help make time-dependent gameplay, but they are so poorly implemented that most of the potential is lost. More keys can be useful in different ways, but the single biggest gameplay changer that could be made with keys (IMO), a reliable "key timer" that hits keys in rotation with any timing the creator chooses and isn't affected by players putting the tab in the background, remains out of reach, and I have put in a LOT of hours trying to solve that problem. Water and mud and lava are nice enough, but don't truly move the needle in terms of gameplay designs. Low gravity worlds were so stupidly implemented that its an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Even while the number of gameplay tools increases at a slow rate and with diminishing utility, the number of colors and blocks keeps shooting up. I understand why; they're easy to make and put into the game. But while great gameplay is harder to make the fewer tools there are, great art suffers the opposite problem: more blocks and more colors increase the difficulty level and the time involvement. Art that uses 30 blocks takes longer to make than art that uses 10 blocks, and though it definitely looks better, the amount of time needed to reach the "peak" in EE art keeps increasing the more blocks that are added.

So, to put all this into context: those creators who get involved with the community and actually see the variety of worlds and gameplay that are made, can find it much, much harder and require much more time and effort to make something "new" than those players who don't have the slightest idea what can be made. The productivity level of established creators dies off as a result, and fewer new creators rise to replace them, because its just as hard for them. The result is what you typically see in the lobby: a bunch of maps by new players who don't have any idea what can be made or don't care to make anything interesting, and the occasional unique and interesting map by a creator or creators that finally managed to finish it. In the original thread, Pyromaniac complains about how all the pros only care about making incredibly difficult maps. Speaking as a guy who has made several of those maps, that ain't my experience at all. The truth is that hard minigames are complex, and the more complex the minigame, the less likely somebody has already made something exactly like it. Simple minigames have already been explored in every shape and fashion 10,000 times over.

So, the requirements of generating content are getting higher, higher, higher, higher, higher. Its no surprise at all that a huge percentage of experienced creators have chosen to abandon ship rather than face another 3-month slog to put together a quality map. Nor is it any surprise that some of them come back when new gameplay tools are introduced, which makes it easier to come up with and implement new gameplay ideas. This brings us to issue 4:

4. Having or finding people who both can and want to help

Getting together a few people to work on a map over a day or two, where the map can go from nothing to done in that time? Easy, and a lot of fun. Getting together a few people to work on a map off and on for several months? Difficult and tedious. As a platform for making games, EE is not nearly as fun for me or most of my friends as it was in the beginning, despite the game being far more advanced and having far more tools, and that ain't because I'm bored of the idea of making new maps. Back at the start, making something new was a matter of throwing together the existing tools and finding some new idea almost instantly. The original EX Crew members would hang out in a map and everybody would work on their own rooms, and every half hour or so somebody would have a new minigame idea to look at, to toy with and explore, and so forth. Now, making a new minigame requires a high understanding of all the tools involved, and often hours polishing the design and fixing exploits. I always have like 5 or 6 ideas for maps I would like to make. But I can see the path to actually making them, and each one involves huge amounts of effort. Getting together a bunch of other skilled designers, who all experience the same issues, and building a map over the course of weeks or months? When many of them have already left EE because of that difficulty in making things? A tall order.

Now, going back to your original thought, you think advertising is the way to go. Did Facebook advertise? Does Reddit do or ever done substantial advertising? Twitter? Instagram? **** 4chan, or any bulletin board community? Sure, they do some brand and image building, but at the end of the day they live or die based on people telling their friends to go check out the platform. And people do that because the content they find is good. Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and so forth make money by selling advertising space to other companies, not by charging the users to create the content! The very fact that EE mapmakers have to pay money to have easy access to all the building tools is completely back-asswards; they're charging the people who create the content that draws in the players. Good lord, if you're going to do that, it had better be damn easy to make something fun, and as I've just spent a lot of words explaining, it ain't easy, its **** hard.

EE used to have 1500 people on the site at peak hours, playing levels or creating their own. It died because the content wasn't good enough. And the content wasn't good enough because it was too hard to make. So long as that remains the case, no amount of advertising will change the basic problem. The current influx of new content (more keys, lava, invisible arrows) has given the community new vitality, but the community will die out just as quickly as soon as the content well runs dry again.

ILoveBaconYUM, Anch, Mylo, some woman, skullz17, Xfrogman43, Bobithan, AsurcH, tak4n, xen90, MikeK, Muftwin, Nou, Minimania, mrjawapa

Dazz · 2015-03-26 12:05:18

I agree with you to a certain point, but imo these ideas apply only for certain users, at a certain age, after all this is the way a teen in their 16-18-20 would think, don't tell me 7-9 years old think like that and left the game because of that.

The true problem with this game is:

-Old users are simply LAZY I've seen a ton of users saying ''I'm too lazy now'' and it's true, they are lazy to think, lazy to come up with something new, lazy to build anything, all they are doing is chatting everyday, going from a room to another or criticising someone else work. They are so bored of life that they could boile an egg every five minute just by sitting arround.

- Hysteria: Once a huge group of known, appreciated people starts a riot against the system or is leaving because of certain reasons while provoking the others around, everyone is with them, more and more people join, not to mention and this is important,,,since 2010 many grew up from this game, some that are still here are like 20-25 or more....

-New users: they are tired of ''us'' the so called veterans, that have nothing better to do except making fun of their work or simply ignoring them or acting superior. They are thinking like we used to think, they want some attention and some appreciation for their creation and sometimes they get it but not from us but from other users like them, new users. The old generation would NEVER give them a woot, a nice word or some appreciation, BUT we all expect them to be experts, we all expect them to come with impressive maps, maybe even better than ours. They build stairs we laugh, they build bosses we complain, they build hotels we cry. Rest assured they know to have more fun than all of us put together, why? simple, they are not here to impress a ton of ''fans'' with high pretentions, they are here to play a game and that's all.

- The biggest dissapointment with this game for new users, for a new generation is super simple, there is no way to compete with bots, guestbombers, skilled ''artists'' or minigamers. There is simply noooooo way, it ruins the game, it makes a new user realise in few weeks that they have no chance. There are few exceptions, there are others insane/courageous enough to stay at least few months.

Just make an experiment, you'll see right away what's going on. Make an alt, make a copy of your BEST world, open the world and wait, when you get 100 woots, 25 players on without help from bots, friends, guests, ect, let me know. It will never happen!
No one give a **** about anyones work. New users have no chance in this jungle, no time to adapt, no interest to stay.

And as I said, old users are way out of this game, they are here because they are addicted/bored/tochat/to complain.

MikeK, Minimania, ILoveBaconYUM, rgl32, skullz17, Pyromaniac

mrjawapa · 2015-03-26 12:11:25

I feel like there is a bigger reason why EE lost most of its community; MrShoe not updating for an entire year. It's not that making maps were harder, people were just bored because there wasn't any new content being released. I agree, some new tools could be added (any ideas will be taken). Unfortunately, some of the issues can not be changed by the staff. Making good worlds is a task for you guys to do, all we can do it provide you content. That's not as easy as you may think... but while typing this I got some ideas for some stuff

xen90, Dazz, some woman

5upertrinity · 2015-03-26 12:19:42

JaWapa wrote:

I feel like there is a bigger reason why EE lost most of its community; MrShoe not updating for an entire year. It's not that making maps were harder, people were just bored because there wasn't any new content being released. I agree, some new tools could be added (any ideas will be taken). Unfortunately, some of the issues can not be changed by the staff. Making good worlds is a task for you guys to do, all we can do it provide you content. That's not as easy as you may think... but while typing this I got some ideas for some stuff

I guess I forgot to mention that. Though there was a decrease in the EE population, it's understandable that it is what is today.
EE wasn't really getting advertised at the same time MrShoe stopped updating it, so nothing fought back.

New players join, other players leave. In this case, the players mainly left. Though new players were still joining, it was at a time
where the decrease in population was very high. Not to mention there were very few new players joining compared to the amount of
players leaving.

tak4n · 2015-03-26 12:20:09

Don't forget age. The community grew up with the game and with age comes responsibility and goals that exist outside the game. I know a lot of people who quit due to university or other life related factors.
Although this is one of the many reasons I feel that it should still be considered.

Minimania, Dazz, Onjit, mrjawapa, MikeK

Pyromaniac · 2015-03-26 12:21:50

Dazz wrote:

-New users: they are tired of ''us'' the so called veterans, that have nothing better to do except making fun of their work or simply ignoring them or acting superior. They are thinking like we used to think, they want some attention and some appreciation for their creation and sometimes they get it but not from us but from other users like them, new users. The old generation would NEVER give them a woot, a nice word or some appreciation, BUT we all expect them to be experts, we all expect them to come with impressive maps, maybe even better than ours. They build stairs we laugh, they build bosses we complain, they build hotels we cry. Rest assured they know to have more fun than all of us put together, why? simple, they are not here to impress a ton of ''fans'' with high pretentions, they are here to play a game and that's all.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you once again. People largely ignore me when I say it because I may have become too outspoken recently. I completely agree to this, and can't really add anything as you took the words right out of my mouth. Except that in reading OP's comments on the other thread, this point was proven even more.

Miasmic, Dazz, Nou

5upertrinity · 2015-03-26 12:23:25

tak4n wrote:

Don't forget age. The community grew up with the game and with age comes responsibility and goals that exist outside the game. I know a lot of people who quit due to university or other life related factors.
Although this is one of the many reasons I feel that it should still be considered.

Indeed, there are actually many reasons behind the decrease of the population of EE that people, including myself haven't pointed out yet.

This is why I'm saying something needs to be done, I hope the community + devs don't just sit around and
wait until the game eventually dies out. Remember, updating the game just keeps them hooked, it doesn't reel them in.

Cola1 · 2015-03-26 12:45:47

JaWapa wrote:

MrShoe not updating for an entire year.
not updating for an entire year.

This was one of the biggest causes of the downfall I'd say. (Let's hope it doesn't happen again )

Mylo · 2015-03-26 15:39:01

At first -
Tl;Dr: I may update this later when i read all of it. I just want to answer following:

Dazz: I agree with you to a certain point, but imo these ideas apply only for certain users, at a certain age, after all this is the way a teen in their 16-18-20 would think, don't tell me 7-9 years old think like that and left the game because of that.

I think one of EEs biggest fails at the moment is: The failure of accepting this game has a way more potential with older users. By that i mean users from the age of 14-25. You can do so much there, and learn to pixel and code. They would just need to highlight these example values, and remove the whole "this is a kids game" factor - i would even say they would need to remove the "it's a shame if you play it when ur older" feeling, I feel too.

You learn so much by playing this game and getting really into it for your whole life. For example I learned how to code, How to lead groups, How to decide what users might like and what not.. How to nake websites etc etc.

Other players might learn how to design, and make pixel art.

Don't just turn this game down to a game only 5 year olds play.

Dazz, skullz17

Creature · 2015-03-26 15:55:58

Can't you just post this at one topic?

Minimania, Dazz

Dazz · 2015-03-26 16:15:37

Mylo wrote:

At first -
Tl;Dr: I may update this later when i read all of it. I just want to answer following:
Dazz: I agree with you to a certain point, but imo these ideas apply only for certain users, at a certain age, after all this is the way a teen in their 16-18-20 would think, don't tell me 7-9 years old think like that and left the game because of that.
I think one of EEs biggest fails at the moment is: The failure of accepting this game has a way more potential with older users. By that i mean users from the age of 14-25. You can do so much there, and learn to pixel and code. They would just need to highlight these example values, and remove the whole "this is a kids game" factor - i would even say they would need to remove the "it's a shame if you play it when ur older" feeling, I feel too.
You learn so much by playing this game and getting really into it for your whole life. For example I learned how to code, How to lead groups, How to decide what users might like and what not.. How to nake websites etc etc.
Other players might learn how to design, and make pixel art.
Don't just turn this game down to a game only 5 year olds play.

Ok, sure, no problem, I agree, it could have a great potential, I always tought this, no doubt about it also there is no harm for older users to play this, no harm to learn stuff too but regarding age it's not like that, the majority of users are quite young anyway, that doesn't mean there isn't enough place for everyone to enjoy the game.

Xfrogman43 · 2015-03-26 22:19:16

Mylo wrote:

You learn so much by playing this game and getting really into it for your whole life. For example I learned how to code, How to lead groups, How to decide what users might like and what not.. How to nake websites etc etc.

You said nake.

skullz17 · 2015-03-26 22:52:18

Cola1 wrote:

JaWapa wrote:
MrShoe not updating for an entire year.
not updating for an entire year.
This was one of the biggest causes of the downfall I'd say. (Let's hope it doesn't happen again )

I think it was probably the worst state EE has ever been in. At least that's how I remember it. EE had been dying since Mrshoe came along, but in the year without updates, EE was wrinkly and crippled on the ground, trying to pick itself up.

Different55

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-03-27 00:15:12

5upertrinity wrote:

Remember, updating the game just keeps them hooked, it doesn't reel them in.

No amount of saying this will make it true.

Abelysk · 2015-03-27 00:18:51

EE survived with 1,000+ users with two block types: Classic blocks (basics, bricks, specials) and beta blocks. Then we had gravity, key doors, coins, and a crown. It felt so simplistic. The ease of creating a world with those limited blocks made gameplay simple to create. Now, the amount of block types is absurd. Everybody Edits has morphed into a dress-up game. That's my take. Perhaps there is a way around that...

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-03-27 00:33:52

Itsmeandersonlol wrote:

EE survived with 1,000+ users with two block types: Classic blocks (basics, bricks, specials) and beta blocks. Then we had gravity, key doors, coins, and a crown. It felt so simplistic. The ease of creating a world with those limited blocks made gameplay simple to create. Now, the amount of block types is absurd. Everybody Edits has morphed into a dress-up game. That's my take. Perhaps there is a way around that...

It was simplistic. It was fresh and new and interesting. Simplicity doesn't matter if its new and interesting.

One of my points is that none of the tools that have been implemented in a long time capture that kind of "freshness", that newness, where it was easy to make something new and fun just by throwing a few arrows in the air. I don't know that I would call it a dress-up game, but I agree with your point: we have a hundred weak tools and very few strong tools. As creators, we end up putting together all these weak tools in complex combinations, because we don't have a single tool anymore that we can easily just toss in the air and find new and exciting gameplay.

Jawapa wrote:

I feel like there is a bigger reason why EE lost most of its community; MrShoe not updating for an entire year. It's not that making maps were harder, people were just bored because there wasn't any new content being released.

I'm somewhat puzzled: how is a lack of updates and a resulting boredom different from my point that the creators weren't getting any new tools and so had a lot of difficulty making things that felt new and fun, which results in boring maps and gameplay?

FDOOU · 2015-03-27 03:35:53

Dazz wrote:

Just make an experiment, you'll see right away what's going on. Make an alt, make a copy of your BEST world, open the world and wait, when you get 100 woots, 25 players on without help from bots, friends, guests, ect, let me know. It will never happen!
No one give a **** about anyones work. New users have no chance in this jungle, no time to adapt, no interest to stay.
And as I said, old users are way out of this game, they are here because they are addicted/bored/tochat/to complain.

I think a month or two ago you are wrong and this could easily happen. The user Russianspy is the example.

People on the forum have acted as a guest bomb, and made the world high in the lobby. Once it's high in the lobby, the working class scum will eat it up.

Source: several worlds I made where that happened a few months ago (Life, Afterlife)

Minimania · 2015-03-27 07:22:31

I agree with y'all, but is it too hard to keep this on one topic?

mrjawapa · 2015-03-27 12:10:53

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote:

I'm somewhat puzzled: how is a lack of updates and a resulting boredom different from my point that the creators weren't getting any new tools and so had a lot of difficulty making things that felt new and fun, which results in boring maps and gameplay?

You answered your own question. If there are no updates: people wont get new tools, people will not have new blocks to build with, people will quickly run out of ideas to build on.

Nonetheless, we've listened. We have some really cool stuff coming, that should help come up with a lot of new things.

BEE · 2015-03-27 12:16:53

I still am of the mindset that the levels in the lobby are not enticing enough to keep new players here.

I know I'm a nub, but when *I* can't even start a level, how would someone just getting used to the game mechanics be able to enjoy themselves?

-Old users are simply LAZY I've seen a ton of users saying ''I'm too lazy now''

Personally, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I'm bored. I'm not going to spend hours upon hours upon days when it isn't fun for me.

When bg blocks were added, my style of art was no longer a challenge. Anyone can make beautiful art now, which is fabulous for EE, but now it's not as fun for me. Need a grey? It's available in twenty different shades. No, 30! I'm not saying this is bad for EE, i is probably good overall. But it's bad for me.

Dazz · 2015-03-28 00:55:17

Bee wrote:

I still am of the mindset that the levels in the lobby are not enticing enough to keep new players here.
I know I'm a nub, but when *I* can't even start a level, how would someone just getting used to the game mechanics be able to enjoy themselves?
-Old users are simply LAZY I've seen a ton of users saying ''I'm too lazy now''
Personally, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I'm bored. I'm not going to spend hours upon hours upon days when it isn't fun for me.
When bg blocks were added, my style of art was no longer a challenge. Anyone can make beautiful art now, which is fabulous for EE, but now it's not as fun for me. Need a grey? It's available in twenty different shades. No, 30! I'm not saying this is bad for EE, i is probably good overall. But it's bad for me.

You don't have to use them all, if you really like to draw you can draw with just 2 colors or just one or you can use just the original 5 classic bricks.

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer · 2015-03-28 01:17:57

JaWapa wrote:

You answered your own question. If there are no updates: people wont get new tools, people will not have new blocks to build with, people will quickly run out of ideas to build on.

Seriously JaWapa, I'm not following. You originally said that you saw the lack of updates as a "bigger issue". I said, isn't that what I said? And you're saying, I answered my own question?

Also, I'll say straight up: I'm glad there is new stuff coming, but I'm concerned about the quality of the stuff. Like itsmeandersonlol said, we have so many tools now, and the problem is that each next tool that comes along adds almost no value (lava) or has serious design problems (invis arrows/dots and the "trail" that follows players). You get diminishing returns with each next tool that is introduced, and at some point there will just be too many tools, and not enough tools that are actually really useful.

BEE · 2015-03-28 04:07:34

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote:

and at some point there will just be too many tools, and not enough tools that are actually really useful.

Like with the blocks that were added. Do we really need 6 colors of cowboy fences?

nlmdejonge · 2015-03-28 13:37:37

This is an interesting thread. I'm one of the people who has been playing EE since it was "Multiplayer Platformworld" on Newgrounds, and here are my thoughts on the subject.

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote:

Everybody Edits is not a game. Everybody Edits is a platform for user-generated content.

I understand your point, but EE is both a game and a platform for user-generated content.

MIHB_casts_confuseplayer wrote:

[...], are the only new gameplay tools we've gotten in a long time that make a big difference.

I agree that the expansion of gameplay tools - those that impact gameplay variation and not (just) other aspects of the game - are crucial for the game's popularity. Roughly speaking we currently have the general platforms/arrows, the gates/doors, portals, and hazards with checkpoints. In my opinion the hazards with checkpoints update, during the turn of the year 2012/2013, was a good update. Coin doors and portals were added in 2011 (January and May, respectively). Contests, new smilies and general block packs, guardians... none of those change gameplay. In 2015 we got liquid lava and death doors, both nice attempts to revitalize EE and its community. I have already seen several levels where liquid lava and water were combined to create new kinds of gameplay.

JaWapa wrote:

reason why EE lost most of its community; [...] not updating for an entire year.

Lack of updates in general is a problem, but lack of updates that impact gameplay variation is especially problematic. Even very simple updates (like those in 2015 or this) can have a big impact. Not just gameplay-wise but also psychologically, that fans know the owners/devs haven't abandoned the game. Also, forum problems and moves (ee.forumify.com -> eeforumify.com -> forums.everybodyedits.com) might negatively impact a community.

JaWapa wrote:

We have some really cool stuff coming, that should help come up with a lot of new things.

This is great news, assuming you're not talking about new smilies and general block packs.

Maybe the lobby should include one featured room at the top of the active levels list that changes daily. This could be a way to assure that first-time players get to play at least one good room, and it might be an incentive for old-timers to return (more often).

I think that certain room creators feel their levels must have good minimap art to match or surpass the quality of rooms they've created in the past. This may be a problem, because creating good art takes a lot of time. If creators with an eye for details make good rooms but also take weeks to finish minimap art, that art decreases the number of good levels being released. Maybe an option to disable viewing the minimap altogether (except by level owners/gods) would solve certain problems and allow for new gameplay types, although this could also introduce new problems.

I'm currently working on a level and it's literally - not exaggerating - taking me 3-4 months just to collect enough coin doors and hazards to create the level. Every day I return to add some energy to the blocks I need more of. Paying for Builders' Club just to get one or several months of unlimited blocks is something I will never do. It's too expensive and even if it were not I'd still only be willing to pay once to get access forever. I'm writing down this anecdote to point to another problem of EE: on the one hand it's build in such a way that its popularity depends on the amount and coolness of levels being created, and on the other hand it severely (and artificially) limits the access users have to important blocks. See my stats: "If you wanted to buy every item with energy, you would need 369 315 energy and you had to wait 1 year 9 months 4 hours 7 minutes 30 seconds." And: "If you wanted to buy every item this account owns with gems, you'd need 673.73 USD" And I still only have 880 portals and 380 coin doors. I want to one day build a cool 2000 coin door level, and until I've collected 2000 coin doors the game itself is preventing me from creating such a level. I'm not going to pay for temporary access. What I have now is better: I have 380 coin doors today, tomorrow, and a year from now. The game itself does not help new players who want to transition to level creation. It limits gameplay variation. You have a good idea which requires 2000 coin doors? Too bad.

Nou, SPT, Different55

mrjawapa · 2015-03-28 14:30:06

nlmdejonge wrote:

This is great news, assuming you're not talking about new smilies and general block packs.

You assume right.

nlmdejonge wrote:

I'd still only be willing to pay once to get access forever.

We have something in progress for this too. Hint: we got the idea from the coin glitch

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#1 2015-03-26 05:41:28, last edited by MIHB_casts_confuseplayer (2015-03-26 06:10:22)

Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#2 2015-03-26 12:05:18, last edited by Dazz (2015-03-26 13:25:00)

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#3 2015-03-26 12:11:25

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#4 2015-03-26 12:19:42, last edited by 5upertrinity (2015-03-26 12:20:39)

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#5 2015-03-26 12:20:09

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#6 2015-03-26 12:21:50, last edited by Pyromaniac (2015-03-26 12:26:30)

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#7 2015-03-26 12:23:25, last edited by 5upertrinity (2015-03-26 12:24:44)

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#8 2015-03-26 12:45:47

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#9 2015-03-26 15:39:01

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#10 2015-03-26 15:55:58

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#11 2015-03-26 16:15:37, last edited by Dazz (2015-03-26 16:57:09)

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#12 2015-03-26 22:19:16

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#13 2015-03-26 22:52:18

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#14 2015-03-27 00:15:12

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#15 2015-03-27 00:18:51, last edited by Abelysk (2015-03-27 00:19:10)

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#16 2015-03-27 00:33:52, last edited by MIHB_casts_confuseplayer (2015-03-27 00:46:54)

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#17 2015-03-27 03:35:53

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#18 2015-03-27 07:22:31

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#19 2015-03-27 12:10:53

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#20 2015-03-27 12:16:53, last edited by BEE (2015-03-27 12:17:27)

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#21 2015-03-28 00:55:17, last edited by Dazz (2015-03-28 17:36:14)

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#22 2015-03-28 01:17:57

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#23 2015-03-28 04:07:34

Re: Why this game has a small community - a counterargument

#24 2015-03-28 13:37:37, last edited by nlmdejonge (2015-03-28 14:53:43)

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#25 2015-03-28 14:30:06

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