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Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

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Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

MM who are your top two town and scum rn?

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Buzzer and Jovi aren't S/S for what it's worth.

probably being dumb right now but why aren’t they S/S?

If Jovi is scum, Buzzer would know I'm lying. If they know I'm lying, they would know that it's a reaction fish. If they know it's a reaction fish, they are likely not going to give me an obvious reaction I could use against them. Thus, them being the most vocally suspicious of my claim probably indicates they are not aligned with Jovi, because S!Buzzer would be worried I'd interpret it as them having TMI.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

or somehow figured out via logic that I wasn't being truthful about the mason claim (dunno how likely this is for anyone except MM, who has played with me before in a game where I've done a reaction fish).

i mean you did put Gandhi above Jovi in your reads even though you claimed that Jovi was your mason partner

No I didn't?
Unless you think my reads were ordered within the brackets themselves. Which they weren't.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Buzzer and Jovi aren't S/S for what it's worth.

probably being dumb right now but why aren’t they S/S?

If Jovi is scum, Buzzer would know I'm lying. If they know I'm lying, they would know that it's a reaction fish. If they know it's a reaction fish, they are likely not going to give me an obvious reaction I could use against them. Thus, them being the most vocally suspicious of my claim probably indicates they are not aligned with Jovi, because S!Buzzer would be worried I'd interpret it as them having TMI.

(also that's not dumb at all, it's not an obvious conclusion)

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I apologize in advance but I won’t be super active tomorrow or Friday. My schedule is really busy those days. My gut still says MM/Gandhi are the final pair but that’s not enough to go on. But I think it’s suspicious that Lumi and Elijah both scumread MM and now they’re dead. I’d really like some more opinions on this cuz it doesn’t feel right. It seems like a red herring but idk if my thoughts hold any weight.

Idk if it's both of them. I feel like if they were paired they would have tried to dominate day 2 more. Instead they both ended up just resting their votes on inactive players. Though, that's not a super strong argument, so I won't say the pairing is impossible.

It could be Grilyon and MM? Maaaybe 2b? My TR on them has kind of wavered bc Elijah was pushing 2b near the end.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

but now that i see Gikkle is a very brilliant player,

I'd call myself a lot of things, but a "very brilliant player" is not one of em

I think BB was the only person who doubted your claim Gikkle. Idk if this is WIFOM territory, but the fact that you're still alive could mean that the mafia believed you and didn't kill you. Hence BB couldn't be mafia since he didn't believe your claim. Is this too speculative?

It means wolves didn't believe me and saw me as a potential mislynch (or just otherwise not worth killing), or they did but had a kill in mind that took priority over a mason (maybe they rolecopped Elijah, or maybe they had a non-mechanical reason for it).

For the first case - it means wolves are either aligned with Jovi, know Jovi's role somehow as town, or somehow figured out via logic that I wasn't being truthful about the mason claim (dunno how likely this is for anyone except MM, who has played with me before in a game where I've done a reaction fish).

For the second case - It means they either had a good reason to kill Elijah for a non-mechanical reason (I'll have to think for a while about what this could mean), or they found elijah was cop bc of a role cop or vanilla cop (totally plausible in a role list like this).

You need to think for a while?
Wifom kill, reads kill, keeping poe open for mislim kill
Consensus town kill

Think for a while about what people it could implicate.

B. Lumi would have been only killed by n1 by somebody who knows her. Thats either Gikkle or MM.

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I wasn't even in the game when Lumi died lol
Also I think I saw somewhere that Gandhi is apparently OzyWho?

Also also, based on how people talked about Lumi day 1 (that they were a champs player and stuff) and how Lumi was a generally loud and strong town day 1, I don't think people that didn't know Lumi wouldn't kill them.

This doesn't matter too much though since I do generally agree with MM being scum

Mmmm, okay. If you will agree to make this thought experiment: adopt town!MM's point of view here. How does Oliverz's push look like here? Asking both to get a grasp on you and to try to escape potential bias lol.

And damn, I just wrote a novel XD. I guess the summary is: don't vote me ya dinguses, also pressure Oli and answer my questions

It looks like typical Oliver behavior.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I sincerely doubt an Oliver/Gandhi team. I don't think scum Gandhi essentially vanishes day 2 while at the same time trying to get his inactive partner lynched. If he's going to bus, he would at least stick around so he gets more credit from it. And busing doesn't really seem like the greatest play in Gandhi's position anyways considering he was already pretty consensus town.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

MM, if you're genuinely town, I'm gonna need you to show me something REALLY townie, bc as it stands, it looks like you're going to be the lynch.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Pretty sure Oliver is just town here?

I feel very confident pqwerty/Mini are town at this point (though godfather is still technically possible for mini, which should be remembered if we get to lylo)

And considering every possible partner, I just can't see a world with scum oliver

I don't think a Grilyon/Jovi team kills Lumi (Grilyon was viewed as town slipped by Lumi, Jovi was inactive so I doubt they really were part of the calculation for who to kill. Neither of them have real reason to be scared of Lumi, because even if people *say* they're good, Lumi's reads are totally off base at this point if this is indeed the team)
I don't think Jovi/Gandhi is likely considering how Gandhi was trying to bus Jovi day 2, and I don't think that's a play Gandhi makes with how he was already in a strong thread position.
I don't think it's both 2b and Jovi bc Shadow was pushing that as his agenda towards the latter part of day 2, and I find it unlikely he does that if they were actually both his partners
I don't think it's Buzzer and Jovi for the same reason. Shadow said it was 2 of BB/Jovi/2b. I don't think he actually puts both his partners in there.
Based on the latest by Marshmallow and Oliver, I don't think it's those two slots either. That doesn't feel like an S/S interaction.

And, if you think I'M potentially scum with Oliver, that means you think BOTH scum were inactive for the first chunk of the game! (I'm also TMIed town by Shadows bc he hard defended my slot and put me at the top of his town reads but since I'm the one saying this it won't be taken as seriously )

So honestly if Oliver's scum it means we're wrong about one of Pqwerty and Mini

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

If we accept Oliver/Pqwerty/Mini as town

Mm/Grilyon/Gandhi/BB/2b

Every possible team:

MM/Grilyon
MM/Gandhi
MM/BB
MM/2b
Grilyon/Gandhi
Grilyon/BB
Grilyon/2b
Gandhi/BB
Gandhi/2b
Bb/2b

Every team if MM is town:

Grilyon/Gandhi
Grilyon/BB
Grilyon/2b
Gandhi/BB
Gandhi/2b
Bb/2b

I find BB/2b to be unlikely for the same reason oliver/2b or oliver/bb were unlikely. Shadows had a 3 person PoE which included those three - I doubt he put all of his partners in there. Not as a traitor without a way to communicate, anyways. I'm a bit more skeptical of these two than the ones with oliver bc of some Shadow interactions. But I think it’s still unlikely they are both scum.

I find Gandhi/BB to be unlikely bc of Buzzer putting them as their top town in their first reads list and really hyping them up (calling them a "very high iq mafia member" if they were mafia, which is sort of weird for a wolf to say about another wolf). Usually wolves don't get too close that early.

That leaves us with the following if MM is town:

Grilyon/Gandhi
BB/Grilyon (I'm skeptical of this as a team. BB threw some unnecessary pressure Grilyon's way)
2b/Grilyon (Also sort of skeptical of this as a team for the same reason. Less so than BB/Grilyon bc 2b didn't really throw *as* much pressure Grilyon's way)
Gandhi/2b

Which means it's most likely just 2 of Grilyon/Gandhi/2b at that point. IF mm is town. Which I don't really believe he is. But if he is town then I'd look in that pool.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

hot take but i'm starting to second guess Nuclear Gandhi. being busy and becoming less active is one thing but to straight up say you lost interest in the game sounds like mafia burnout, especially with such a strong town & after losing a mafia teammate

He's saying he lost interest 30 hours into day 2? Which correlates with when he lost activity. And that's well before we got a cop check on Mini and a mafia member flipped.

Gikkle

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Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

2B is my Neighbor.

i can confirm that this is true

Oh god, maybe it's just anxiety but theoretically 2B and Pqwerty could be deepwolfing here

Claiming neighbors if it's not true is sort of pointless. Neighbor doesn't confirm that either one is town, which means town can still lynch either one of them, and if they are lying, they'd both get caught and will have gained nothing from the fake claim.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'll be honest: if, to you, the walls that come just before your posts and that EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE IGNORING (apart from Minimania, who at least acknowledged their existence, but even then...) are chopped liver, you might as well lynch me right now, because that would mean you thoroughly refuse to listen to what I have to say lol. And to be very clear: this is not my giving up at all, but rather me asking you (all) to actually address my important posts, which I feel like... noone is doing this game? Like, I expected several significant reactions to my post where I said PLOT TWIST and townread Elijah on D2, but noone felt like addressing it significantly, which is really weird. And then, I make the walls with my reads and my thoughts on basically everyone in the game, and NOONE EVEN REFERS TO IT? There's something very fishy with this, and it just feels like you've put the rope around my neck before my trial.

I attribute a lot of this to culture clash; however, Gikkle, you are not from here and have a playstyle that is very compatible with my vision of the game and with my playstyle, as far as I know. Therefore, the fact you just acted like my earlier posts don't even exist makes me suspect you

Wrt to the posts that were not the reads list - I commented on the Oliver push, didn't comment on the other ones bc I didn't think they were noteable/alignment indicative.

The reads list I didn't really comment on because I don't generally comment on reads lists unless something sticks out to me. I didn't see anything scummy or townie with your reads list, so I didn't feel the need to comment on it. Nor did it really add anything new to the conversation. Maybe if you had ended up actually scumreading Buzzer, but you didn't, so

What I want you to do - and what I ask a lot of people to do when I scumread them - is to show me your heart. It's harder to read people when they only post in wall posts every so often. If you made a lot more rapid fire posts that showed your thoughts as a conversation is happening, that would help me see how your brain is working more than a wall post which you had time to think about would (though I understand this is tough to do when you don't have a lot of time to be on). And, if you could do that by engaging in a discussion with your top scum read, that would be even better.

Iirc, you sort of did this with Elijah, and I remember hating that whole entire argument between you and him when I was reading up. I thought it definitely contained one wolf bc it looked like you were pushing an agenda and Elijah was just being pretty weird in his defense, which is why I scumread you pretty early on. But then you stopped pushing Elijah and my SR lessened a little bit. I still think the whole interaction was off but I *am* willing to give you an opportunity to prove yourself.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So, just looking through Gandhi's ISO, I feel like I probably gave him a lot more credit than he actually deserves. Some of his posts ARE good. But there's one crucial problem with him that I'm noticing. And that is...

what said about shadow still stands though, they're super clear imho*

AllenCaspe9510, I just find their reads list extremely based lol. I love it. I can see others wouldn't, but to me it's just so pure if that makes any sense? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

...they have now voted TWO people they have town read, without ANY progression to indicate why. I talked about this earlier - 2b and Gandhi were the people I had flagged for being notably "weird" around the day 1 wagon. 2b gave a somewhat acceptable reason, and it's not like they really *TRed* Allen like Gandhi did. Gandhi did not explain, and he made known that he was willing to vote EITHER of the counterwagons (mini and Elijah). And yet he landed on Allen, who he townread.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'll be honest: if, to you, the walls that come just before your posts and that EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE IGNORING (apart from Minimania, who at least acknowledged their existence, but even then...) are chopped liver, you might as well lynch me right now, because that would mean you thoroughly refuse to listen to what I have to say lol. And to be very clear: this is not my giving up at all, but rather me asking you (all) to actually address my important posts, which I feel like... noone is doing this game? Like, I expected several significant reactions to my post where I said PLOT TWIST and townread Elijah on D2, but noone felt like addressing it significantly, which is really weird. And then, I make the walls with my reads and my thoughts on basically everyone in the game, and NOONE EVEN REFERS TO IT? There's something very fishy with this, and it just feels like you've put the rope around my neck before my trial.

I attribute a lot of this to culture clash; however, Gikkle, you are not from here and have a playstyle that is very compatible with my vision of the game and with my playstyle, as far as I know. Therefore, the fact you just acted like my earlier posts don't even exist makes me suspect you

Wrt to the posts that were not the reads list - I commented on the Oliver push, didn't comment on the other ones bc I didn't think they were noteable/alignment indicative.

The reads list I didn't really comment on because I don't generally comment on reads lists unless something sticks out to me. I didn't see anything scummy or townie with your reads list, so I didn't feel the need to comment on it. Nor did it really add anything new to the conversation. Maybe if you had ended up actually scumreading Buzzer, but you didn't, so

What I want you to do - and what I ask a lot of people to do when I scumread them - is to show me your heart. It's harder to read people when they only post in wall posts every so often. If you made a lot more rapid fire posts that showed your thoughts as a conversation is happening, that would help me see how your brain is working more than a wall post which you had time to think about would (though I understand this is tough to do when you don't have a lot of time to be on). And, if you could do that by engaging in a discussion with your top scum read, that would be even better.

Iirc, you sort of did this with Elijah, and I remember hating that whole entire argument between you and him when I was reading up. I thought it definitely contained one wolf bc it looked like you were pushing an agenda and Elijah was just being pretty weird in his defense, which is why I scumread you pretty early on. But then you stopped pushing Elijah and my SR lessened a little bit. I still think the whole interaction was off but I *am* willing to give you an opportunity to prove yourself.

also MM your vote history stinks
being off wagon both times is not a good look lol

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So, just looking through Gandhi's ISO, I feel like I probably gave him a lot more credit than he actually deserves. Some of his posts ARE good. But there's one crucial problem with him that I'm noticing. And that is...

what said about shadow still stands though, they're super clear imho*

AllenCaspe9510, I just find their reads list extremely based lol. I love it. I can see others wouldn't, but to me it's just so pure if that makes any sense? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

...they have now voted TWO people they have town read, without ANY progression to indicate why. I talked about this earlier - 2b and Gandhi were the people I had flagged for being notably "weird" around the day 1 wagon. 2b gave a somewhat acceptable reason, and it's not like they really *TRed* Allen like Gandhi did. Gandhi did not explain, and he made known that he was willing to vote EITHER of the counterwagons (mini and Elijah). And yet he landed on Allen, who he townread.

I'll be honest: if, to you, the walls that come just before your posts and that EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE IGNORING (apart from Minimania, who at least acknowledged their existence, but even then...) are chopped liver, you might as well lynch me right now, because that would mean you thoroughly refuse to listen to what I have to say lol. And to be very clear: this is not my giving up at all, but rather me asking you (all) to actually address my important posts, which I feel like... noone is doing this game? Like, I expected several significant reactions to my post where I said PLOT TWIST and townread Elijah on D2, but noone felt like addressing it significantly, which is really weird. And then, I make the walls with my reads and my thoughts on basically everyone in the game, and NOONE EVEN REFERS TO IT? There's something very fishy with this, and it just feels like you've put the rope around my neck before my trial.

I attribute a lot of this to culture clash; however, Gikkle, you are not from here and have a playstyle that is very compatible with my vision of the game and with my playstyle, as far as I know. Therefore, the fact you just acted like my earlier posts don't even exist makes me suspect you

Wrt to the posts that were not the reads list - I commented on the Oliver push, didn't comment on the other ones bc I didn't think they were noteable/alignment indicative.

The reads list I didn't really comment on because I don't generally comment on reads lists unless something sticks out to me. I didn't see anything scummy or townie with your reads list, so I didn't feel the need to comment on it. Nor did it really add anything new to the conversation. Maybe if you had ended up actually scumreading Buzzer, but you didn't, so

What I want you to do - and what I ask a lot of people to do when I scumread them - is to show me your heart. It's harder to read people when they only post in wall posts every so often. If you made a lot more rapid fire posts that showed your thoughts as a conversation is happening, that would help me see how your brain is working more than a wall post which you had time to think about would (though I understand this is tough to do when you don't have a lot of time to be on). And, if you could do that by engaging in a discussion with your top scum read, that would be even better.

Iirc, you sort of did this with Elijah, and I remember hating that whole entire argument between you and him when I was reading up. I thought it definitely contained one wolf bc it looked like you were pushing an agenda and Elijah was just being pretty weird in his defense, which is why I scumread you pretty early on. But then you stopped pushing Elijah and my SR lessened a little bit. I still think the whole interaction was off but I *am* willing to give you an opportunity to prove yourself.

also MM your vote history stinks
being off wagon both times is not a good look lol

Despite this, I still don't think MM/Gandhi is likely to be S/S

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Why is that so?

Because this is a majority only game. Meaning if you're town, being off wagon means that a lynch can't really happen without mafia wanting it to happen (well it CAN, but it'd be way harder). By not voting the main wagon, you just make it harder for town to get a town led wagon.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Also, are you seriously asking me to engage in a serious, fruitful discussion with... Oliverz? xD nah, if it does happen, it looks like you'll be the chosen one here

What did you think about my argument about Oliver?

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Nuclear Gandhi

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

"Shadows TMI'd someone town" could also easily be "Shadows defended a scummate", so I won't comment on this further.

There's ways to distinguish that. Why dismiss the point so quickly?

Everyone kills Lumi xD. That being said, I don't think Grilyon is scum.

If you have no experience with Lumi (which I understand neither Grilyon nor Bon have), and instead see that Lumi's reads are totally off base (Lumi was clearing Grilyon), you have no reason to fear them, especially since they claimed vanilla town.

Mmmm, I didn't see Gandhi try hard to lynch Jovi at all - and right now, my scum world would be Oli/Gandhi.

It was completely unnecessary for Gandhi to apply any pressure *at all*. Gandhi was the top town that day phase. He can easily lead the lynch anywhere he wants. Leaving a vote on his team mate for half the day is not the play there.

2b and BB: I townread both of them, but I don't think Shadows putting his actual scummates in a pool of suspects is impossible at all. It wouldn't be as if he had selected 2 scums on 2 players, after all.

It's not impossible, and I didn't suggest it was impossible (for any of these, actually.). I said it was unlikely. Unless Shadow was preparing to get lynched (and thus was in anti-spew), I don't think it's like he goes out of his way to make 2/3 of his scum pool his scum buddies. It puts him in a uncomfortable position if he lives, because he has to go back on his word for whatever reason, or help push out 2 of his scum buddies. And I don't think Shadow would be keen to bus here because A) he has no way to make sure that it's okay with his scum buddies, and B) he may get night killed by his partners for being TOO correct.

Maybe It's because I'm hungry, but I really don't like this post lol. (And not because you disagree with my points )

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Maybe It's because I'm hungry, but I really don't like this post lol. (And not because you disagree with my points //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue)

Well, we'll see if I still don't like it after I eat something.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'm sort of internally flip flopping on MM/Gandhi rn

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

This is more of a point for the sake of game theory than for actual reads in this game, but generally, feared and townread players tend to get nightkilled no matter who exactly is scum, because the reactions of other players indicate there is a threat (and make the player a threat).

Scum kill those who advance their agenda. A fear kill that comes from people who have never played with Lumi just seems INCREDIBLY unlikely to me. Idc how much Lumi talked themselves up in thread. People who don't have firsthand experience, and instead are being cleared by Lumi, aren't going to be so afraid.

Something I've experienced is that people that try and dismiss NKA solely because "they were a strong town player" are often scum themselves trying to prevent actual thought into the subject. Lumi themselves did it in the game on SC2 in which they were scum recently (I think that was politico?). Like, yeah, feared and town read players *do* get killed simply because they are feared and town read. But, if their reads are completely wrong, and there are acceptable alternatives (Like Gandhi, 2b, or you), then there is more to analyze there than the obvious "they are a strong town player"

The more you try and brush off night kill analysis simply because Lumi is a "good player", the more I suspect you.

Gandhi's vote was barely noticeable, though, and so was the pressure. It's the kind of thing I could do to prepare anti-spew for later. As for directing the lynch, he absolutely did not need to do that: town seems to have managed to create the mislynches by itself, so why get your hands dirty when you can have a nice vote on your scummate instead? (Note that I'm not saying this proves anything, just that it doesn't make Gandhi and Oliverz not SvS.)

I fully believe that Gandhi wanted a Bon Jovi lynch. He had been implying it since the end of day 1, advocated for jovi to die day 2, continued to advocate for it in conversations with other people, and eventually rested their vote on Bon Jovi for basically the remainder of the day phase

Like, yeah, this certainly isn't the most high pressure push out there. But it still had a legitimate chance of catching on because of Gandhi's influence.
As for why a wolf Gandhi would want to direct the lynch - he would want to do so because he doesn't know who the traitor is, so he would want to make sure it goes towards people he is fairly certain are town. Judging by the fact that Gandhi popped in to vote Shadows (when he very easily could have remained silent), I'm *guessing* Gandhi didn't know Shadow was the traitor if he is scum. Which means there is little reason for Gandhi to just plop his vote on his scum mate and not try and lead a lynch somewhere.

Oops, that's on me for being unclear. I didn't mean you said it was impossible, but rather meant that it was not even unlikely in a vacuum: it's a typical scum maneuver, actually, and it's far from uncommon to see scums put their scummates in null/scumreads while throwing townies into the mix so that it's hard to tell anything from their reads afterwards. Considering your experience with Mafia, I am pretty sure you have already seen this several times. As for Shadows not wanting to bus, he didn't need to have the intent to bus to put scummates in his scumreads. It depends on who actually gets the pressure; it's relatively easy to say "I suspect X, Y and Z, but want to lynch X" and then basically make everyone forget you even included Y and Z in there.

I'm very aware of that fact. I've heard it referred to as the "rule of three", the idea being that if a wolf mentions three individuals, there's a good chance one is probably scum.

I'm actually sort of basing my logic off of that "rule", because commonly, wolves only include ONE wolf in any group of three scum they have. This is to prevent spew while also simultaneously giving the wolf wiggle room to get a couple mislynches.

So, it's important to note that Bon Jovi was a replacement for Allen in this rule of three. On day 1, Shadows specified that he suspected one of Allen, BB, and 2b of trying to pocket him. He then says day 2 he thinks it's between Oliver, BB, 2b (if Elijah/Mini are town)

I feel like with that context in mind, it makes it even more unlikely Oliver is aligned with either BB or 2b. I would just find it weird for Shadows to just casually replace Allen in that pool of three with another actual wolf. Though, this context is the reason I specified later that I was a bit more skeptical about clearing BB/2b off of the same logic.