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Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

We were absolutely sinking D2 and mafia just had to sit there and watch, but Gikkle picked up the reigns, activated the town, and lead to a scum chop.

hey give me and elijah some credit here

Gikkle just seemed to kind of follow along on D2? not really sure how you see that as "picked up the reigns" and "activated the town"

Ah yeah, sorry. I just reread and you guys did suspect ShadowsEdge before Gikkle.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Pqwerty can you tell something about 2b55 from your neighbor chat?

I mean, she appears to be giving good opinions in there. Also Neighborizers are usually a town role, so I just gave 2B a pass.

Is there anything specifically I should be looking for? The only offputting thing imo is that 2B wanted more info about my role at the time when the info would only help the mafia, but 2B's opinions are relatively in-depth so idk. I've been running my theories by her and getting good feedback so it's hard to tell; also i recently got my confidence in my ability to read shattered so I'm not super confident in any of my reads anymore.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

If I'm not the fruit vendor, and 2B isn't the fruit vendor, and Gandhi isn't the fruit vendor, and you're not the fruit vendor, and Gikkle and Oliver's slots were too afk to be the fruit vendor, does that mean BB is the fruit vendor?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I think there's a mafia fruit vendor. MM said they got a fruit N1 and Shadow allegedly watched someone target MM. If the fruit vendor was town aligned, then why didn't ShadowsEdge just claim watcher and say who visited MM? I think they might've been protecting a partner. But also Shadow immediately said that the person who visited MM was mafia. Most importantly, though, is that nobody wants to claim vendor when it's basically a named townie. You'd think with a miller, neighborizer, and cop-clear already outed that a fruit vendor would just be one more extra town that has no fear of being killed because there's potentially 3 people ahead of them and only 3 days maximum left in the game.

So, BB and 2B are not vendors because they received fruit. I'm town and so is Mini. That leaves Gikkle, Gandhi, and Oliver as the potential mafia fruit vendor. The only person who was active all 3 nights was Gandhi, but maybe the fruit was given randomly if no person was selected.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

If the fruit vendor was town aligned, then why didn't ShadowsEdge just claim watcher and say who visited MM? I think they might've been protecting a partner.

There is absolutely no good reason for Shadows to actually tell the truth about mafia visiting MM *at all*. Two big reasons:

1. I think he was using that claim to signal to his partners (if he was telling the truth mafia might think he was actually town)
2. The possibility of a tracker, however slim, would disincentivize being truthful about this at all.

Most importantly, though, is that nobody wants to claim vendor when it's basically a named townie. You'd think with a miller, neighborizer, and cop-clear already outed that a fruit vendor would just be one more extra town that has no fear of being killed because there's potentially 3 people ahead of them and only 3 days maximum left in the game.

I- what
Not trying to be rude, but I'd like you to think about what you're saying here for a couple of seconds. Read it out to yourself or something.

So, BB and 2B are not vendors because they received fruit. I'm town and so is Mini. That leaves Gikkle, Gandhi, and Oliver as the potential mafia fruit vendor. The only person who was active all 3 nights was Gandhi, but maybe the fruit was given randomly if no person was selected.

If the fruit vendor was determined to lie there's no reason to not sell the lie even further by not giving out a fruit and just claiming to have received one themselves.

Dumb question, but how does claiming an obvious fake role signal to the mafia that you're the traitor? Also I don't understand your point as to why the fruit vendor wouldn't claim if they were town. Finally, isn't it a general rule of thumb that if you want to balance a setup you have majority VTs (in this case 7) before putting in any PRs? That leaves 3 mafia and 3 town PRs. We already have Miller, Neighborizer, and Cop as most likely town PRs, so idk if there's room for a 4th town PR. Unless 2B is a mafia Neighborizer or I'm somehow a mafia miller who shows up as mafia when inspected.

Pqwerty

Member

From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

If we're theorizing why Grilyon was killed, maybe it was because the mafia liked the reads of the town and didn't want to kill the people that townread them?

Like what if this is a sign that our reads so far are all wrong up to the point where the mafia would rather kill an inactive to have us stay wrong and mischop Gandhi (the other vote candidate from yesterday) the same way we mischopped MM?

Or maybe I'm reading too far into it and the mafia just knew Grilyon wasn't going to get mischopped, but they could still make the case that Mini wasn't the cop's invest.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

But if all my reads are wrong then 2b and Gikkle would be mafia instead of town.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

From today.

1. I think he was using that claim to signal to his partners (if he was telling the truth mafia might think he was actually town)

From D2

After sleeping, I sort of feel like Shadows is just being confusing instead of necessarily scum aligned. I've seen too many players like him and rarely do I get the satisfaction of them flipping scum.

Assuming he *is* town, that means mafia visited MM n1. My guess is Roleblocker, Neopolitan, Motion Detector, or some other kind of PR Hunting/Manipulating role. I can’t think of many roles in a lower power role list like this that would visit a fellow mafia? If town had a lot of KP they could have a rolestopper or bus driver. If town had a lot of invests it could be a tailor. I don't think either of those are true though.

Thus MM is likely not mafia (could be the traitor)? If shadows is town. Which I'm beginning to view as the case.

!vote minimania

When did you start believing that Shadow was signaling to his mafia teammates?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

So, does anyone have any clue who the mafia are?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

or a Gikkle lynch. i'm still not fully convinced Gikkle is town

Gandhi or Gikkle would be solid choices

i made my case for Gikkle in multiple posts throughout my ISO if y'all want to look back

I can't find your Gikkle case in your ISO. Can you summarize it?

Pqwerty

Member

From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Oh wait nvm it's #64 in your ISO

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

scumreads

Marshmallow Marshall
for so many reasons. just today they voted to lynch Gandhi with the only reason being that Gandhi disappeared at the end of D2? which is totally unfair to Gandhi imo because they have been nothing but active and helpful and then swooped in at the last second to help hammer Shadow. Marshmallow is also going back and forth on their reads of 2b, and also is avoiding giving any kind of scumreads. i hate wishy washy players. it was the same with Shadow. our job is to lynch mafia, so scumreads are one of the most helpful things you can offer as town. if you're wrong then you're wrong but at least try to give us something. ANYWAY all this plus elijah pushing Marshmallow on D2 leads me to believe elijah might've gotten a red check on Marsh.

Oliwaz144
i don't have much to go off from their predecessor either i just need to see more before i come to a better conclusion. but jovi seemed scummy to me so that is carrying over to my opinion of oliwaz. as i mentioned before i appreciate them catching up on everything but other than their first post everything else hasn't been much of a contribution

townreads

Pqwerty
i really have no reason to not believe their miller claim. #1 on my town list for sure

2b55b5g
she helped hammer Shadow, made this very townie post, and was already sus of Marshmallow since D2. i don't have a lot of hard evidence for my townread on 2b, but i feel like it's mostly the way i interpret the tone of their posts. mostly calm, logical, and helpful. never defensive. 2b just wants to solve the game which is the most town thing you can do lol

Minimania
mini was immediately skeptical of shadow's claim, was townread by elijah HARD which leads me to believe if elijah didnt get a red check on Marshmallow n1, he definitely got a green check on mini n1, and mini has been skeptical of Marsh since D2

Grilyon2
honestly i thought grilyon died already lmao i just realized they're still alive. i don't see their inactivity as scummy at all though. i mean just take a look at their most recent post from D2. they hit the nail on the head with all of their reads and ultimately ended up voting for Shadow. i hope Grilyon comes back and gives us more insight on D3.

Nuclear Gandhi
no longer my top townread, but definitely still a townread. i talked about this a bit in my read for Marshmallow, but Gandhi has been nothing but helpful and helped hammer Shadow. this last post where they said they didn't feel like catching up was weird but the still voted correctly regardless so i can forgive it. hoping to see more from them today tho

neutral

Gikkle
i townread gikkle until their weird claim on D2. i do believe their explanation for the claim though but now that i see Gikkle is a very brilliant player, i wouldn't put it past them to do some kind of meta reverse psychology thing lol. this is all just conspiracy tho i definitely lean town for Gikkle but i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up winning the game as mafia and baffled us all

I just realized BB thought MM was the check and Mini was the check at the same time.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Hey Gikkle where’s that NKA you’ve been promising?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Sorry BB I can’t read

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I’ve been thinking about it today and I think Gikkle’s belief that Shadow was signaling comes from a place of TMI. Here’s why:

The whole point of a mafia signal is to tell a lie or something that only the mafia could figure out. Shadow said “MM is town because the mafia visited them N1”. We know MM was town and we know that the fruit vendor gave them fruit N1, so if this is a signal, the only lie Shadow can make is about the alignment of the fruit vendor. So, the truth should be that the fruit vendor is town.

In this case, it does work as a signal because the mafia know who they are and they know who they visited, so if they didn’t visit MM on N1 then they’d know Shadow is lying for no reason, which signals that they’re the traitor.

The problem is that there’s only 2 kinds of players that would know Shadow was lying in the first place to even know that it was a signal, and those people are the mafia and the fruit vendor. If Gikkle is the town fruit vendor, then he would absolutely have known that Shadow was lying when he said that the mafia visited MM, and as town he could’ve called Shadow out for lying. But instead he suddenly townreads Shadow. It reads to me more like a mafia who realized Shadow was the traitor and made a last ditch effort to save a partner.

I mean, did anyone else think Shadow was using their potentially fake night result to signal the mafia? Was anyone considering that or saw it in the realm of possibility before Gikkle pointed it out?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Ok uh, where does the logic fall apart here?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Gikkle

I'm leaving this here for now

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Idk I thought Shadow was just frantically trying to cover up their slip, so I don't think it's obvious or noticeable that Shadow was signaling. Also I think it's odd that you changed your read after being so suspicious of Shadow, and how Shadow had a firm townread on the person you subbed in for even though they were completely MIA.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!unvote

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Isn't neighborizer usually supposed to be a town role? Or was the game hoping that the mafia would recruit the traitor or cop or something?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I was targeted N1 and the two reasons 2B gave were to get more information about my role and because they thought I was trustworthy. I was really suspicious that they wanted to learn more about my role because I didn't want the mafia to find out about the existence of a cop. But then we started bouncing theories off each other and eventually both got burned out. I've been trying to throw mud at the wall to see if anything sticks because if I'm being honest I have no clue anymore. Mini and BB feel like my top townreads so everyone else is sort of process of elimination.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Honestly voting 2b or Gandhi isn't the worst thing because it puts someone out of their misery and we'll (hopefully) have better chances tomorrow after the mafia kills someone, but policy votes seem way too mediocre at this stage in the game.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I already claimed Miller, 2B is Neighborizer, and Mini is VT

If you want a mass claim, what role are you?

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

We'll have to see. But rn it's majority and if we don't vote someone then it's 4v2 lylo. Even if 2B flips town, 3v2 lylo is better than 4v2.

Also we don't have the votes for anyone else since only 3 people are online.

Pqwerty

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From: 'Murica

Joined: 2015-10-09

Posts: 2,078

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Honestly I want to see the Gandhi/Gikkle thunderdome tomorrow

I'm pretty sus of Gikkle tho