Is EE! cooked?

TowerOfDustAndDecay · 2024-03-14 20:26:36

It's been a while. I've seen lots of people say the same thing. I'm not going to try to say that I agree and try explaining why just yet, but this community is growing less hopeful by the second.

I may or may not be saying this just so every other topic isn't the same blabber about EE! being canned without our knowledge, but yeah. It's also kinda funny how that one insanely edgy topic I made a few years back was actually eerily prophetic, because now way more other people think EE! is done for as well.

I repeat, I don't mean to argue for myself that EE! is over. I'm just trying to make some kind of discussion thread for all of these statements. But I guess I can also be informed if doing that's not really necessary anyway.

N1KF · 2024-03-15 00:07:07

We don't know.

Unless there is some insider leak, we have no definitive proof whether or not development is continuing.

I do not believe the conspiracy theory that the Staff are lying is plausible. To recap why:

If the game ceases development, it will be announced as well:
mutantdevle wrote:
We do not anticipate giving any updates sooner than this for any reason other than the worst-case scenario of cancelling the game.
The Staff team includes long-time trusted community members such as Minimania and mutantdevle. They are not receiving funding from us, so there is no incentive to keep people waiting for nothing.

The most plausible explanations are:

They have set the standards very high, so they can make a high-quality, great first impression. This means it will take a long time to reach those standards.
Real life issues are interfering.
There are management issues slowing development.

1 and 2 are the official statements. 2 was the explanation regarding the war and pandemic, which may have less of an impact now.

Regarding 3, former owner Xenonetix made a very critical post of Satanya in February 2021, which is the closest thing to proof of mismanagement. Still, Xeno has a much more public record of callouts from, and feuds with other Staff, so I'm a bit skeptical of his statements.

GravityDonut

Zumza · 2024-03-19 14:24:52

The only 2 staff members that know whats going on are Satanya and Mutant.
The developers have been fired and they refuse to say if they are looking or they found replacements for them.

N1KF · 2024-03-19 21:47:45

Zumza wrote:

The only 2 staff members that know whats going on are Satanya and Mutant.
The developers have been fired and they refuse to say if they are looking or they found replacements for them.

Here is mutantdevle's actual statement:

mutantdevle wrote:

To clarify the confusion around Zoey's statement, I do not believe she has been told the reason that the Ukranian developers are no longer part of the team. The only people that know that are myself, Satanya, Fixel and Vice-T. Minimania might know too but I cannot remember if he was present when Fixel and Satanya shared the news with us.
Let me be clear, the only people 'active' in the community that are informed about what is going on behind the scenes is myself and Satanya. Any comments from anyone else are at most speculation.

He said they are "no longer part of the team", not that they were fired. There are many reasons somebody would be unable or unwilling to work during a war.

I don't like the lack of transparency, but I get the reasoning. Like in the thread I linked, you are making hasty assumptions about we do actually know. It gives the impression that you're acting in bad faith, and if you lack the self-awareness to stop, nobody will be able to trust what you write here.

mutantdevle, GravityDonut

Abiqi · 2024-03-19 23:02:42

The problem with those assumptions and accusations is that they're mostly spreading word by word, which often leads to some thoughts getting changed slightly to exaggerate or just poor wording which changes the whole idea and perspective.
"I was talking to Satanya and she said blank" suddenly turns into a pile of garbage such as this.

With how community was treating the staff members, them not willing to share anything was working for the most part. Sadly, these kind of things going around players not only makes them (the players) leave, but also forces staff (mainly mutant really) to keep defending his side, which causes even more disruption on both parts.
Give them a break already..

N1KF, mutantdevle, GravityDonut, Snowester

Tomahawk · 2024-03-19 23:48:28

Zumza wrote:

The developers have been fired and they refuse to say if they are looking or they found replacements for them.

N1KF wrote:

He said they are "no longer part of the team", not that they were fired.

Either I'm missing something or "the devs have been fired" is news from over a year ago which is getting rehashed for some reason.

N1KF · 2024-03-20 00:28:06

Tomahawk wrote:

Zumza wrote:
The developers have been fired and they refuse to say if they are looking or they found replacements for them.
N1KF wrote:
He said they are "no longer part of the team", not that they were fired.
Either I'm missing something or "the devs have been fired" is news from over a year ago which is getting rehashed for some reason.

Firing means the employer terminated the employment, when we don't know who made the decision. In the past, Satanya has argued to keep the Ukrainian developers, even when they were unavailable to work on the game.

Abiqi · 2024-03-20 01:52:58

Just a quick google search, USERRA (assuming the company is located in US which it likely is) prohibits employer laying off an employee on a military duty/leave basis, although I'm struggling to find any information regarding a foreign employee and employer who's based in US. Even if it isn't, I doubt the devs were fired

Zumza · 2024-03-20 09:06:53

N1KF wrote:

Like in the thread I linked, you are making hasty assumptions about we do actually know. It gives the impression that you're acting in bad faith, and if you lack the self-awareness to stop, nobody will be able to trust what you write here.

I made no hasty assumption in that thread. Whereas here, indeed, I made an unimportant semantic mistake.
I don't care what you think I am doing.
The only bad faith there is, is from the staff, who lead us to this. And if you think otherwise, then you should realize that your statements apply to you more than they apply to me.

N1KF · 2024-03-20 09:33:43

It's a fairly important distinction, as firing people during wartime is much different than the alternatives. That said, it's good to know that your phrasing wasn't intentional.

I'm working on the assumption that people are innocent until proven guilty. I have already explained in this very thread, why the "malicious Staff" narrative is unlikely. If you have found proof the Staff are guilty of something, you are free to post it.

Regarding the last point, mutantdevle has already explained why your posts are coming across as bad faith.

Zumza · 2024-03-20 10:14:53

You can't always retract your statements saying "she didn't know", "i didn't remembered right", etc. You can't always say that you haven't been lying but misinformed, so often.

Not even the extended staff team knows about the game currently. Why is that?
Why mutantdevle knows more about who is working on the game than the owner of the game?
It is perfectly clear that they refuse to clear up the truth, and this I call lying.

Abiqi · 2024-03-20 11:34:53

Zumza wrote:

Why mutantdevle knows more about who is working on the game than the owner of the game?
It is perfectly clear that they refuse to clear up the truth, and this I call lying.

You're forgetting the fact mutant is not only head of moderation, but also responsible for community interactions. Even more - mutant was the one to convince Satanya to cut the ties with the community, so I don't see anything strange about her not responding to yet another cry for attention

mutantdevle

Edilights · 2024-03-20 13:45:40

Abiqi wrote:

You're forgetting the fact mutant is not only head of moderation, but also responsible for community interactions. Even more - mutant was the one to convince Satanya to cut the ties with the community, so I don't see anything strange about her not responding to yet another cry for attention

What could it happen if mutant is no longer responsible for community interactions ? For real . Why in the world for any kind of fact is going to be if the GGRID would hide the answers from our community?

Abiqi · 2024-03-20 21:26:27

Edilights wrote:

What could it happen if mutant is no longer responsible for community interactions ? For real . Why in the world for any kind of fact is going to be if the GGRID would hide the answers from our community?

Deal with the silence? Idk
It's not worth answering the questions when you seriously risk your mental health dropping to the lowest point, especially when every single answer you provide is followed up with trashtalking and harassment towards you

Edilights · 2024-03-20 22:52:03

Abiqi wrote:

It's not worth answering the questions when you seriously risk your mental health dropping to the lowest point, especially when every single answer you provide is followed up with trashtalking and harassment towards you

Your point of argument is nullified by the next question ... If I have consumed my resources(my shiny mind) , why are there still community members questioning about the EE! progress ? You rather hide instead of revealing the thing .
I know the GGRID have the whole responsibility to cover up any content of the new game but really to contradict someone that asked a thing ...
There's a limit and take your balance.

Abiqi · 2024-03-20 23:51:10

Edilights wrote:

Your point of argument is nullified by the next question ... If I have consumed my resources(my shiny mind) , why are there still community members questioning about the EE! progress ?

Wasn't this answered many times before? The whole reason they went silent was threats and harassment due to the state of the game.

- People ask questions - GGRiD answers them.
- People ask more questions - GGRiD is hesitant, but still tries answering it following nda
- People start heavily criticizing and only say negative stuff, only a small portion can be considered actual feedback.
- People demand to know more - GGRiD decides not to answer
- People start harassing - GGRiD goes silent

Although some players were genuinely interested in the state of the game, it wasn't enough to continue sharing the progress when there's barely anything positive to receive in return.

Zumza · 2024-03-21 17:54:07

Abiqi wrote:

Zumza wrote:
Why mutantdevle knows more about who is working on the game than the owner of the game?
It is perfectly clear that they refuse to clear up the truth, and this I call lying.
You're forgetting the fact mutant is not only head of moderation, but also responsible for community interactions. Even more - mutant was the one to convince Satanya to cut the ties with the community, so I don't see anything strange about her not responding to yet another cry for attention

I don't know to which corner of this planet you refer to in which is normal for anyone but the business owner that allegedly spent $35K and over-assured us of their competence to know who is actually working on the project. (1 2 3 4 5)
If such a place exists I am entirely guilty of forgetting about it.

Abiqi wrote:

Edilights wrote:
What could it happen if mutant is no longer responsible for community interactions ? For real . Why in the world for any kind of fact is going to be if the GGRID would hide the answers from our community?
Deal with the silence? Idk
It's not worth answering the questions when you seriously risk your mental health dropping to the lowest point, especially when every single answer you provide is followed up with trashtalking and harassment towards you

The topmost questions that are being asked on a quick glance over the first page of this forum category are:
1. Is this game at the moment being worked on?
2. How many developers are working on the game?
3. What is their ETA?

Do you believe it is reasonable to have an emotional breakdown from such simple questions?

Looking that Satanya commissioned **** done for her, from the same Twitter account that she used for community interactions with EE, I can agree with you that she might have mental health issues, but entirely different to those that you're alluding.

N1KF · 2024-03-21 21:42:03

Zumza wrote:

Abiqi wrote:
You're forgetting the fact mutant is not only head of moderation, but also responsible for community interactions. Even more - mutant was the one to convince Satanya to cut the ties with the community, so I don't see anything strange about her not responding to yet another cry for attention
I don't know to which corner of this planet you refer to in which is normal for anyone but the business owner that allegedly spent $35K and over-assured us of their competence to know who is actually working on the project. (1 2 3 4 5)

Or maybe the Staff are just assigning roles based on who is best at what, and Satanya is listening to the suggestions of other Staff members... Managing a game AND a community is not easy. There's a reason Chris Benjaminsen refused to read the forums at some point.

Regarding the miscommunication of dev experience, that was a pretty big oopsie so I won't try to excuse that.

Zumza wrote:

Do you believe it is reasonable to have an emotional breakdown from such simple questions?

Please read the Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us. topic. I already went into this line of thinking and had it answered extensively over a year ago.

Regarding the last paragraph, I've never heard of that before, and I'm just gonna dismiss it as gossip until I see actual evidence. If you don't have evidence, you should probably remove it from your post.

Zumza · 2024-03-21 22:18:53

It very hard to believe that Satanya whom often stated about the morality of laying off the Ukrainian developers, and how concerned she was about them, didn't knew as little as to how old they are and what they were working on, don't you agree?

Regarding Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us, I believe I was very familiar with it at its time considering the second most wooted post in that topic is one that I authored, and which probably had a small amount of influence when it was decided that mutant should be the bridge.

As for the evidence regarding the statement made in the last paragraph of my previous post, it is clear from its nature I can't post it on the forums without moderators consent. And even with, I would dislike posting something like that.
But I hope they could, as Tomahawk once said it is in their responsibility to "guide people towards truth, and truth towards people".

Either way, if you go to Musearys Twitter's account and scroll there under the Likes tab, you will see it on July 3rd.
You can also DM me here or on Discord if you need further assistance in finding it.

Edilights

N1KF · 2024-03-22 00:59:32

Zumza wrote:

It very hard to believe that Satanya whom often stated about the morality of laying off the Ukrainian developers, and how concerned she was about them, didn't knew as little as to how old they are and what they were working on, don't you agree?

It's easy to be concerned from somebody, even if you aren't actively following who they are or what they're doing.

For me, the most confusing part is where the 20+ years of experience came from.

Here is mutantdevle's statement:

mutantdevle wrote:

As far as I know, my statement in 'chat 1' is correct. That is my understanding from the things that Satanya has told me (in a conversation more recent than her statements in those screenshots). It is possible that I am the one who is incorrect, but I do believe that Satanya was mistaken when you she made those comments in 'ex1' and 'ex2'. Neither of us dealt directly with the team of developers as that has always been Fixel's responsibility.

It's suggested Satanya became aware of the mistake at some point. This error should have been corrected when it was discovered, but it wasn't.

Zumza wrote:

Either way, if you go to [...] Twitter's account and scroll there under the Likes tab, you will see it on July 3rd.
You can also DM me here or on Discord if you need further assistance in finding it.

Oh, I thought you meant the official Everybody Edits account. The account you mentioned hasn't even posted anything about EE in around two years, and I didn't see any community interactions. I also can't seem to view the account's likes without an account, so I can't confirm or deny what you saw.

Zumza · 2024-03-22 07:42:05

N1KF wrote:

The account you mentioned hasn't even posted anything about EE in around two years, and I didn't see any community interactions. I also can't seem to view the account's likes without an account, so I can't confirm or deny what you saw.

When you make up all sort of excuses for staff in lack of evidence, but at the same time you still prefer to dismiss the existence of that Tweet after I specifically tell you where to find it, as much as you want to appear nice, you aren't, you appear and are biased.

Abiqi · 2024-03-22 08:08:27

Collect all the evidence you want, it still wouldn’t help the case as staff will continue to be silent.
The only thing I got out of this discussion is people still think they’re entitled, in the right to demand answers and only seek out for truth they want to hear. Satanya’s company bought the game, tried doing something with it, went silent. At the end of the day it’s GGRiD’s game and their decisions - don’t share anything or discontinue the game completely.

N1KF · 2024-03-22 08:30:07

Zumza wrote:

N1KF wrote:
The account you mentioned hasn't even posted anything about EE in around two years, and I didn't see any community interactions. I also can't seem to view the account's likes without an account, so I can't confirm or deny what you saw.
When you make up all sort of excuses for staff in lack of evidence, but at the same time you still prefer to dismiss the existence of that Tweet after I specifically tell you where to find it, as much as you want to appear nice, you aren't, you appear and are biased.

While I dismissed your offhand mention of it in post #17, I didn't dismiss your next post because you gave the citation I was looking for. I wanted to make the points:

The account is not heavily linked to Everybody Edits
I was unable to check the likes because Twitter
I don't think a personal Twitter account is our business

I deleted text clarifying #3, assuming #1 made up for it, and trying to keep my messages brief. #2 was just to clarify whether I could verify it myself. Doing that, my message came across as dismissive, which was a mistake on my part. Hopefully that clears it up.

Abiqi wrote:

Collect all the evidence you want, it still wouldn’t help the case as staff will continue to be silent.
The only thing I got out of this discussion is people still think they’re entitled, in the right to demand answers and only seek out for truth they want to hear. Satanya’s company bought the game, tried doing something with it, went silent. At the end of the day it’s GGRiD’s game and their decisions - don’t share anything or discontinue the game completely.

It's hard to gather evidence, which is why I think it's best just to wait and see what happens. If we want our own EE in the meantime, we can make it. Everybody Build Exists is already doing that. EEmulator lets you run your own server. EEO is open-source. Also maybe I'll do some big new EE variant for 2025 but we'll see if my long chain of abandoned projects finally ends.

Edilights · 2024-03-22 10:06:21

Abiqi wrote:

... it still wouldn’t help the case as staff will continue to be silent.
...

How about the whole staff being sued by vast majority of the players ? Is even allowed the freedom of reliable information over this ?

Abiqi · 2024-03-22 10:13:22

Edilights wrote:

How about the whole staff being sued by vast majority of the players ? Is even allowed the freedom of reliable information over this ?

:skull:

Joeyjoey65, Snowester

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2024-03-14 20:26:36

Is EE! cooked?

#2 2024-03-15 00:07:07

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#3 2024-03-19 14:24:52

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#4 2024-03-19 21:47:45

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#5 2024-03-19 23:02:42

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#6 2024-03-19 23:48:28

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#7 2024-03-20 00:28:06

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#8 2024-03-20 01:52:58, last edited by Abiqi (2024-03-20 01:54:28)

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#9 2024-03-20 09:06:53

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#10 2024-03-20 09:33:43

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#11 2024-03-20 10:14:53

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#12 2024-03-20 11:34:53

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#13 2024-03-20 13:45:40

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#14 2024-03-20 21:26:27, last edited by Abiqi (2024-03-20 21:27:15)

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#15 2024-03-20 22:52:03

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#16 2024-03-20 23:51:10

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#17 2024-03-21 17:54:07, last edited by Zumza (2024-03-21 18:03:26)

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#18 2024-03-21 21:42:03

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#19 2024-03-21 22:18:53

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#20 2024-03-22 00:59:32, last edited by N1KF (2024-03-22 01:12:12)

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#21 2024-03-22 07:42:05

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#22 2024-03-22 08:08:27, last edited by Abiqi (2024-03-22 08:13:39)

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#23 2024-03-22 08:30:07

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#24 2024-03-22 10:06:21

Re: Is EE! cooked?

#25 2024-03-22 10:13:22

Re: Is EE! cooked?

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