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N1KF

Wiki Mod

From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 11,114

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Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

there is an entire community behind you that are ready to help at any time given the opportunity, help that will drastically enhance the quality of the game in a record time.

The choice is yours. Choose wisely.

I'm wondering what makes you so confident this would make such an improvement to the development. From what little we've seen or read, the quality of the game is already equal to or better than EE Flash's—technical performance (much better handling for giant worlds), the graphics (more original and better focus on color palettes), the music (which EE Flash doesn't have), and the physics (designed to be the same as EE Flash).

The game already has a lengthy design document and a team of paid professionals, and it could be tricky to get a team of volunteers to keep working on the same standards of quality. Some EEO mods are very impressive, but still would assume it's easier than designing an entire game. EEO already has hundreds of blocks, is entirely offline, and understandably it doesn't have the high standards for polished graphics, bug testing, or user experience a fresh new game would.

That said, I'm not against getting help wherever it would help, or opening up a bit more about the development. I hope something positive comes from this thread being bumped.

Luridmetal35

Member

Joined: 2020-06-04

Posts: 41

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

I'm hyped about EE!, the game has passed in the right hands. From what I have seen I think we are very lucky that Satanya bought the game and this is probably the best outcome EE could ever had (In my opinion). But I would like the staff to keep us up to date (Even if it will be 1 post in 3 month) or just a small post explaining that everything is fine. When I see that the last update from Satanya was posted almost a year ago I'm getting skeptical and a little bit disappointed.

About the community, I think beside active members there are a lot of people who do not show any activity but still follow the progress of the game and have positive opinion (Like me).

Anyway, keep up the good work and I hope over time everything will fall into place!

Edilights

Member

From: In your dreams.

Joined: 2019-01-27

Posts: 515

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

This once again, leads to nothing.
I'm not being negative or toxic about it, It's just the reality that we have to accept. For many years now, the staff has been counter-intuitive and deceived their own community with baseless lies, false promises and so on. In my eyes, this is much worse than the community complaining about said issue.
"We are working on Unity"
"We promise you a new version of EE fully optimized after flash dies"
"EEU is coming in early 2019 fully built"
"Etc, etc, etc".(1)
It's a common recurrence in the history of EE staff team and has been going downhill since the end of Benjaminsen era. All this false hype created to keep the community alive, has infact been working. We sticked around for many years hoping that those claims were true and we stayed loyal to the game till the end and beyond. 
The pillar of the game isn't the staff team, but the community. Without the community, there is no multiplayer game. An argument can be made that the contrary is also true: Without the multiplayer game, there is no community.

Alrighty buddy , you reckoned the enough information for hearing. The staff lied for not making further harm to EE hoping players.
This community taught enough on veracity over quality. Why did you give a fact if there are some behind the scenes causes(like the incidents mentioned above the post)  ? You were a former moderator . Why do you try to encourage the downsides of EE staff team?
I don't want to be a debate breaker but...
I should rectify why staff is only 'main pillar' of stabilizing the community. If the community were more involved to this game , we hadn't ended such tragedy and probably eeu have released . Are there current investors preoccupied to fund the game?
In reality , this wasn't well supported by the EE players . And the havok.  What will happen next?

I sincerely, we sincerely remained devoted to this game we loved spending hours on, and even now, 2 years after flash's death we are present. There is an entire community working on mods, TAS, worlds, sharing projects in the offline version of the game because we truly enjoy it multiplayer or not. If that doesn't show the devotion and loyalty we have towards the game, I don't know what will. Leaving us in the dark, and deliberately choosing to ignore us will only endanger the future of the game.(1)
As you are already aware, EE!'s general opinion is already at all an time low, and the little trust we had for you at the beginning has progressively faded away throughout the years. The reason why I insisted on the community's loyalty to stick around, is because we are able to help. Not just sit around, be toxic and laugh at you. We have music composers, we have programmers, we have artists, we have graphic designers and much more. (2)
When did you come to us to ask for help? (2)
Cut the ****. Instead of complaining about the community's complaints because of your lack of communication, marketing and management skills, feeding the last trusting loyal members in your half-dead discord server and writing irrelevant posts on twitter that no one ever reads, there is an entire community behind you that are ready to help at any time given the opportunity, help that will drastically enhance the quality of the game in a record time. (1)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.(1)
Believe it, that is the absolute worst way to deal with the situation.

We don't need to choose what development should be exactly . If you were being in a place of a staff from this set of developers , it must give a gap of time for (Why does stress actually prove or affect the lack of progress?)
I am pretty sure that TAS EEM or EEO wouldn't hold much longer when the crisis will start . If someone puts a offline game with a player and there's no interaction of it . Why do the player itself would choice to play it?

Not just sit around, be toxic and laugh at you.

I don't prefer sounding like a scumbag . I rather choose to be a plaintiff instead . I wished that won't be longer criticized now from kind of people (even you) . I haven't distressed all of the emotional force yet. Be careful what type of speech give in another server . This is not going to be a joke. (I apologize for spamming . I had my opinion.)

Kiraninja

Member

Joined: 2021-10-10

Posts: 59

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

This once again, leads to nothing.
I'm not being negative or toxic about it, It's just the reality that we have to accept. For many years now, the staff has been counter-intuitive and deceived their own community with baseless lies, false promises and so on. In my eyes, this is much worse than the community complaining about said issue.
"We are working on Unity"
"We promise you a new version of EE fully optimized after flash dies"
"EEU is coming in early 2019 fully built"
"Etc, etc, etc".(1)
It's a common recurrence in the history of EE staff team and has been going downhill since the end of Benjaminsen era. All this false hype created to keep the community alive, has infact been working. We sticked around for many years hoping that those claims were true and we stayed loyal to the game till the end and beyond. 
The pillar of the game isn't the staff team, but the community. Without the community, there is no multiplayer game. An argument can be made that the contrary is also true: Without the multiplayer game, there is no community.

Alrighty buddy , you reckoned the enough information for hearing. The staff lied for not making further harm to EE hoping players.
This community taught enough on veracity over quality. Why did you give a fact if there are some behind the scenes causes(like the incidents mentioned above the post)  ? You were a former moderator . Why do you try to encourage the downsides of EE staff team?
I don't want to be a debate breaker but...
I should rectify why staff is only 'main pillar' of stabilizing the community. If the community were more involved to this game , we hadn't ended such tragedy and probably eeu have released . Are there current investors preoccupied to fund the game?
In reality , this wasn't well supported by the EE players . And the havok.  What will happen next?

I sincerely, we sincerely remained devoted to this game we loved spending hours on, and even now, 2 years after flash's death we are present. There is an entire community working on mods, TAS, worlds, sharing projects in the offline version of the game because we truly enjoy it multiplayer or not. If that doesn't show the devotion and loyalty we have towards the game, I don't know what will. Leaving us in the dark, and deliberately choosing to ignore us will only endanger the future of the game.(1)
As you are already aware, EE!'s general opinion is already at all an time low, and the little trust we had for you at the beginning has progressively faded away throughout the years. The reason why I insisted on the community's loyalty to stick around, is because we are able to help. Not just sit around, be toxic and laugh at you. We have music composers, we have programmers, we have artists, we have graphic designers and much more. (2)
When did you come to us to ask for help? (2)
Cut the ****. Instead of complaining about the community's complaints because of your lack of communication, marketing and management skills, feeding the last trusting loyal members in your half-dead discord server and writing irrelevant posts on twitter that no one ever reads, there is an entire community behind you that are ready to help at any time given the opportunity, help that will drastically enhance the quality of the game in a record time. (1)
The choice is yours. Choose wisely.(1)
Believe it, that is the absolute worst way to deal with the situation.

We don't need to choose what development should be exactly . If you were being in a place of a staff from this set of developers , it must give a gap of time for (Why does stress actually prove or affect the lack of progress?)
I am pretty sure that TAS EEM or EEO wouldn't hold much longer when the crisis will start . If someone puts a offline game with a player and there's no interaction of it . Why do the player itself would choice to play it?

Not just sit around, be toxic and laugh at you.

I don't prefer sounding like a scumbag . I rather choose to be a plaintiff instead . I wished that won't be longer criticized now from kind of people (even you) . I haven't distressed all of the emotional force yet. Be careful what type of speech give in another server . This is not going to be a joke. (I apologize for spamming . I had my opinion.)

seriously, what are u even saying

Edilights

Member

From: In your dreams.

Joined: 2019-01-27

Posts: 515

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

seriously, what are u even saying

You should not complain at everything else . Your brain needs emotional intelligence .(Which is essential)

frostflare

Member

Joined: 2016-05-23

Posts: 134

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

seriously, what are u even saying

You should not complain at everything else . Your brain needs emotional intelligence .(Which is essential)

No seriously, what are you even saying? No offense, but because of the way you worded your response I had issues understanding your replies to Kira. Are you calling them stupid for even voicing their opinion on the forums? Or does it really bother you that much they decided to post here on this thread.

NoNK

Member

Joined: 2019-07-13

Posts: 922

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

Personally I don't see the development of ee! as something being done for the community, it's more like you're racing against the community.

We already have ee offline, archivEE, kkyle8 mod, project M, that one html5 remake, a TAS client, etc.

It's only a matter of time before we make our own EE online again, and any devs that don't produce results are going to be irrelevant.

Kirby

Member

Joined: 2015-04-04

Posts: 4,307

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

Personally I don't see the development of ee! as something being done for the community, it's more like you're racing against the community.

We already have ee offline, archivEE, kkyle8 mod, project M, that one html5 remake, a TAS client, etc.

It's only a matter of time before we make our own EE online again, and any devs that don't produce results are going to be irrelevant.

giving me flashbacks to this thread

NoNK

Member

Joined: 2019-07-13

Posts: 922

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

AK712 EE is coming, 2 more weeks, trust the plan

Kiraninja

Member

Joined: 2021-10-10

Posts: 59

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

From what little we've seen or read, the quality of the game is already equal to or better than EE Flash's—technical performance the graphics (more original and better focus on color palettes)

Source?

the music (which EE Flash doesn't have)

Source?

Ravatroll made an entire original soundtrack for EEU in a record time for each designated theme. I have personally listened to it and I can safely tell you that it was on par with original games.

The game already has a lengthy design document and a team of paid professionals, and it could be tricky to get a team of volunteers to keep working on the same standards of quality.

Paid professionals may I say, that never played the original Everybody Edits to begin with. I'd much rather have motivated and knowledgeable people from the community brainstorm and help with a new game than random "paid professionals from ukraine" that never touched EE.

That said, I'm not against getting help wherever it would help, or opening up a bit more about the development. I hope something positive comes from this thread being bumped.

That's exactly my point.

N1KF

Wiki Mod

From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 11,114

Website

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

▼sources

From what little we've seen or read, the quality of the game is already equal to or better than EE Flash's—technical performance the graphics (more original and better focus on color palettes)

Source?

For the "more original" part, the lack of graphics copied from Mario or Facebook should suggest there's more effort towards original graphics. And regarding better focus on color palettes:

In EE!, we test all assets together to make sure palettes work well and that the artstyle works

I often suggest palette changes for smileys and tilesets, mostly because I want to make sure we don't introduce too many needless colours and keep reusing ones that work

The graphics we've seen for EE! have been tweaked between previews, suggesting they're being adjusted and the coloring is being carefully considered. This includes the yellow base smileys and the grass blocks.

-

the music (which EE Flash doesn't have)

Source?

Ravatroll made an entire original soundtrack for EEU in a record time for each designated theme. I have personally listened to it and I can safely tell you that it was on par with original games.

Music is being produced for EE!

Well, we do have backgrounds, music, and some other surprise stuff we won't spoil!!!

Oh god, I don't remember the context... I think it was the fact that we mentioned we're gonna redo music entirely, I think?

Also, Musearys would also like to use Ravatroll's music:

I don't have rights to the other composers' music (NeonSynth & RavaTroll), but I did want to buy rights to remix couple of tracks from the latter. I think he got screwed over hard by the previous owner and I wanted to help him out a bit, plus his music is excellent

Can't you contact with the people that made these musics and negotiate with them

well, the details of it are between me and Rava, but essentially many European countries have organisations that you must use to handle music rights-- I know one composer in Croatia I work with has to deal with that-- so essentially all money goes through them, and contracts, etc. and it's just a hot mess

[...]

The true extent of the legality there is very weird. I believe since they did work for him, they kind of consented to have their work used in any case.
But I don't want to like, use Rava's music and not pay him for it, that wouldn't be right, so I'm trying to find a way to buy rights to a couple of tracks so I can remix them and include them in EE! itself

Paid professionals may I say, that never played the original Everybody Edits to begin with. I'd much rather have motivated and knowledgeable people from the community brainstorm and help with a new game than random "paid professionals from ukraine" that never touched EE.

I did find some pretty close messages where staff have responded to this claim, but not anything outright confirming it. Plus the devs could have played EE since then. So I'd be cautious about stating this as a known truth.

Keep in mind that the people programming aren't necessarily the same people designing the game. I don't know many details about what goes on behind the scenes, so maybe you're right that this is a bad thing. I dunno though.

Tomahawk

Forum Mod

From: UK

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 2,847

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

there is an entire community behind you that are ready to help at any time given the opportunity, help that will drastically enhance the quality of the game in a record time.

Let's role-play that:

Hey guys, Anna here! Please welcome A, B and C to the EE! development team! They're exactly the passionate EE veterans we need to release EE! by Summer 2023! They're unpaid volunteers with job/college commitments, so their working hours will be between 0 and 30 hours per week, without notice, for an undefined period of time! A and B will be helping with programming, so they'll be spending their first 2-20 weeks familiarising themselves with the software tools and existing codebase before retiring, going on holiday or feuding with other staff members and dramatically announcing their departures. Veteran C will be putting together a Trello board with features we've already thought of, and having long, well-informed and extremely productive conversations with us about community expectations and good PR.

Collectively, all three newcomers will begin sharing work-in-progress game features with the community on a daily basis! This'll be an exciting change for us, and we're looking forward to every graphic and game mechanic being dissected, criticised, misconstrued and misunderstood. This'll let our staff get down to business debating implementation details with our invaluable community, which will boost staff morale, speed up development and diversify our vision for the game!

That's all for now! Stay tuned for Saturday's vlog, where Yaroslav and Oleksiy show you how to select retro 8-bit colour palettes during a power outage!

/s

I'm all for community engagement, but we've run the experiment on crowdsourcing EE development, and it doesn't work.

---

One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

Onjit

Member

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 9,709

Website

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

seriously, what are u even saying

You should not complain at everything else . Your brain needs emotional intelligence .(Which is essential)

Just because you can't comprehend the simple truth you must call me a troll? You must accept what you know is right before you can understand the problems you will face in the future.

---

:.|:;

NoNK

Member

Joined: 2019-07-13

Posts: 922

Re: Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us.

I'm all for community engagement, but we've run the experiment on crowdsourcing EE development, and it doesn't work.

it works fine as long as you don't centralize it, just ignore the main team and play kkyle8 mod and project M and tas client and hang out with your friends on ee discord and chat about spike levels