Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Pqwerty · 2022-09-05 03:51:51

Well if it leads to proving you are town, it should be worth it. If you don’t think it’s towncred then it’s not worth it imo

Marshmallow Marshall · 2022-09-05 03:56:02

Minimania wrote:

Pqwerty wrote:
Why is MM on the top of your list?
I prefer MM here for a couple of reasons.
a. In the off chance Elijah is bussing a teammate, it would be more likely he set up MM to go after Buzzerbee because if Buzz flipped town, it would make it look like maybe eliminating MM wouldnt be such a good idea after all.
b. Im a bit suspicious of MM already as it is, with how they misrepresented everything I said yesterday at EoD, and took it upon himself to speak on Lumi's behalf. Just does not seem town motivated, or it's just ignorance.

Hey, O wise one, I have not misrepresented what you have said on EoD1: as I said in my most recent post, townhunting and scumhunting go hand in hand. They're not mutually exclusive. Thus, I'd think about it a little before calling others ignorant .
(and for the record, I have no issue with you personally, but you're acting like I'm either scum or purely and simply stupid, which is quite annoying)

Minimania wrote:

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
I fail to comprehend how one could think I am teamed with Elijah - and that seems to be what you are implying here. Can you explain that bit?
My theory on it is here. Basically, I would not be surprised if it was scum theater and he was just spewing you right now.

I know you said this. That's a statement of fact, though, not an explanation. Saying that Elijah "is hard pressing me", and that this "could be scum theater" does not explain why you think we are a scum team, it just states that you think we're a scum team in different words lol. You're acting like I'm ignoring deep words of wisdom that make all of your thoughts as clear as water, but there's really not much to work with. What specifically makes you think he's doing theater with me?

Marshmallow Marshall · 2022-09-05 03:59:14

Minimania wrote:

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
- Townhunting does not prevent one from scumhunting. Those are complementary, not mutually exclusive approaches.
I'd already explained my thoughts on this in the post you quoted. I stated that I will still push someone if I'm reasonably confident that they are Mafia, but that my main gameplan was to townhunt so that I can nail down suspects by process of elimination. Nowehere in that post did I say it was a mutually exclusive thing.
Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
- It is not opportunistic to ask you to provide the scumreads you were asked for by someone who got nightkilled. It is in fact the testimony of a sane mind lol.
Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
Well, tomorrow is now, old man
I shall carry Lumi's flame forward to victory and ask you to indeed give your reads - especially your scum ones. I read your ISO, and it's basically just you defending against Elijah without even really reaching a conclusion on him, afaik, apart from just calling him OMGUSsy.
I think I misinterpreted this post the first time I read it. When I first read it, I read it as opportunistic because I was under the impression you were saying that these were reads that I promised I would make. Now that I've read the post again, I rescind my comments made that this post was opportunistic.
Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
- What is that "pondering" you speak of about Pqwerty's posts? You claim to have a thought process, but we don't see it. Perhaps it is very valid, genuine and obviously towny, perhaps it is fake. Hence, I would like to learn more about this (and I haven't seen the answer in your ISO, so unless I'm blind, it has remained rather unexplained).
I don't necessarily feel comfortable explaining my thoughts on Pqwerty's role. I will provide my thoughts if he deems it okay to do so

My point was not that you said it was mutually exclusive, but rather that you acted as if it were by basically refusing to give scumreads - but now it appears it was a misunderstading, so sorry for the aggressiveness lol

And... okay, Pqwerty, what is the secret matter about you that Mini is speaking of? o.O

Minimania

Minimania · 2022-09-05 04:08:17

Pqwerty wrote:

Well if it leads to proving you are town, it should be worth it. If you don’t think it’s towncred then it’s not worth it imo

I don't really know that it'll be worth it. I'm reasonably confident in my guess but I feel it's such a good idea that it would hurt if the Mafia thought of it themselves.

Pqwerty · 2022-09-05 04:09:13

Ah Mini thinks they know my role. I think they said they might know what it is, but don’t want to share it. Maybe they misunderstood you asking for an explanation for their reads as you asking to explain what they think my role is?

I can find the post if you want, but I’m on mobile so I didn’t quote it here.

Minimania

Pqwerty · 2022-09-05 04:10:01

@MM

Minimania · 2022-09-05 04:10:11

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

I know you said this. That's a statement of fact, though, not an explanation. Saying that Elijah "is hard pressing me", and that this "could be scum theater" does not explain why you think we are a scum team, it just states that you think we're a scum team in different words lol. You're acting like I'm ignoring deep words of wisdom that make all of your thoughts as clear as water, but there's really not much to work with. What specifically makes you think he's doing theater with me?

I will need to reformulate my thoughts on you. I suppose if I were remaking my list, I would place you above ShadowsEdge, which isn't that much of a drop on my list but my thoughts have changed. I think our discussion today was fruitful, so thank you

Minimania · 2022-09-05 04:11:56

Minimania wrote:

I really wish I could explain more about why I townread you, but here are some of the reasons. I'm under the impression that you're a negative utility role. Claiming it immediately is a very town thing to do provided it isn't a lie. But I thought about the scope of what this game is trying to achieve. It's supposed to be a simple game with very few power roles. I can only think of a small number of negative utility roles that would fit in such a simple game. But I think I understand what your role most likely is. I've been holding off on explaining this, and I don't want to just say my guess publicly, because I know you've got a reason for not saying it, and yeah, you're 100% right; the Mafia are better off clueless if you absolutely are that role.

Here is my read/thought process on Pqwerty.

Marshmallow Marshall · 2022-09-05 04:14:16

Pqwerty wrote:

Ah Mini thinks they know my role. I think they said they might know what it is, but don’t want to share it. Maybe they misunderstood you asking for an explanation for their reads as you asking to explain what they think my role is?
I can find the post if you want, but I’m on mobile so I didn’t quote it here.

Oh, that would make sense. Well, if you do have time at some point, it would be interesting, including to know how you're perceiving Mini's play ^^

Minimania wrote:

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
I know you said this. That's a statement of fact, though, not an explanation. Saying that Elijah "is hard pressing me", and that this "could be scum theater" does not explain why you think we are a scum team, it just states that you think we're a scum team in different words lol. You're acting like I'm ignoring deep words of wisdom that make all of your thoughts as clear as water, but there's really not much to work with. What specifically makes you think he's doing theater with me?
I will need to reformulate my thoughts on you. I suppose if I were remaking my list, I would place you above ShadowsEdge, which isn't that much of a drop on my list but my thoughts have changed. I think our discussion today was fruitful, so thank you

Mhm, I think so too - and while I don't exactly townread you, I'd rather not have you lynched today, as I feel like you're sincerely trying to think and reevaluate, but am not very sure about it.

Also, I'm tired, so I'll go off now lol

Minimania

Minimania · 2022-09-05 04:14:56

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Also, I'm tired, so I'll go off now lol

Sweet dreams ^^

ShadowsEdge · 2022-09-05 04:17:49

Alright I'm cool with this plan, if not just for getting a collective idea of the elim, it also forces people to think more about their reads in a more coherent manner (since I'm still very confused about some of the reads right now)

Also just for ease of use, I'm spoilering reasons, just so that my order can be seen clearly.

▼ Onjit

▼ Pqwerty

▼ Marshmallow Marshall

▼ Nuclear Gandhi

▼ Grilyon02

▼ 2B55B5G_TNG

▼ Big Bon Jovi

▼ Buzzerbee

▼ Minimania

▼ ElijahBaley

Sorry for the wait, I decided to go into everyone's iso to get a better grasp of my reads

2b55b5g · 2022-09-05 04:22:18

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

The reasons to suspect me are fair? Okay then, answer this:
What are the reasons to suspect me? Because even I have a hard time seeing them xD. What makes you not just a massive sheep hopping on a mislynch here?

the reasons:

Lumi wrote:

Marshmallow Marshall feels awkward and uncomfortable.
His OMGUS early on felt unnatural and not like the kind of reaction I would expect from him. Like I saw nothing to suspect pqwerty and yet MM thought it was enough to warrant an OMGUS vote rather than like just going back and forth or something.
The suspicion onto Elijah also feels very misplaced.

Minimania wrote:

b. I do not entirely trust that Marshall is town. I told Lumi that we would talk today about everything I said yesterday at EoD (which I did above in this post).
Here, MM takes up Lumi's mantle, so to speak, on his own authority and demands that I provide my list of reads, particularly my scumreads. It's clear to me that he either does not understand my gameplan or hasn't even read any of the multiple posts I made outlining it at best, or is misrepresenting what I've said at worst and is looking to push me entirely because of it. Opportunistic.

ElijahBaley wrote:

MM IS MAFIA, HE IS NOT BEING USEFUL THIS GAME. THAT IS HIS SCUM META 100%.

Minimania rescinded his comments on Marshall though, so thats not a reason anymore.

i'll unvote for now since i think Mini's idea of providing a hierarchy is a good idea, and i'll probably vote based on the results of that
i'll send mine later

!unvote

ShadowsEdge · 2022-09-05 04:24:18

Also, i'd prefer to vote one of the bottom 4 of my list (but maybe not Bon Jovi or BB since Im not entirely sure of them)

!vote Elijah

Minimania · 2022-09-05 04:58:51

I'm gonna vote on Elijah for now, and await further developments while I make my own.

Minimania · 2022-09-05 05:00:20

I forgot to actually vote

!vote ElijahBailey

Minimania · 2022-09-05 05:45:23

If I've got this right, then there should be 4 votes on Elijah at this moment

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:21:46

Why am I being voted?

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:28:35

Can the people voting me tell me why they're voting me, and I'll try to dispel their notions.

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:36:46

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Alright I'm cool with this plan, if not just for getting a collective idea of the elim, it also forces people to think more about their reads in a more coherent manner (since I'm still very confused about some of the reads right now)
Also just for ease of use, I'm spoilering reasons, just so that my order can be seen clearly.
▼ Onjit
Pretty Meta-gamey, but iirc, Onjit has a tendency to be inactive as town, afaik he's usually more active as an evil one because of interest and two because I think he doesn't like to make his teammate do all the work.
▼ Pqwerty
Looking through Pqwerty's iso, a lot of his actions clearly have the intent of trying to solve the game, my *only* hesitancy with his slot is from past experience, knowing that he can drum up a plan to make himself appear town-like.
▼ Marshmallow Marshall
Gonna preface this off and say I literally do not understand Mafia terminology so when MM starts talking about OMGUS'ing my brain does not comprehend any of that, so my read on this could be inaccurate.
They seem interested in pushing for information, such as pushing Elijah to explain their reads on Mini, or pushing people to explain their reads on me.
▼ Nuclear Gandhi
My town-read on them was stronger before, and that was mostly because I was just skimming the thread and their response to things gave me a good vibe, though now looking at their iso I can't point a finger at any one thing that made me think of them as town. Its not to say I think they're not town, but I'm not as certain of it now as I was before.
▼ Grilyon02
Pretty clear just because of new-player-syndrome, but I'm still being alert of them as the possibility of them swindling us could still bite us in the future.
▼ 2B55B5G_TNG
Townlean only because she does seem somewhat interested in scumhunting but its very minimal (probably due to being busy or something)
▼ Big Bon Jovi
null because they have yet to say anything of value
▼ Buzzerbee
Mostly null, I don't know BB's playstyle well, but their posts have seemed to try to help, but a lot seems like filler.
▼ Minimania
Their iso really doesn't have a lot, most of it seems to be defending, one thing I'll give credit for is still trying to figure things out even while being under accusation, because as town I think they'd be more interested in solving the game rather than staying alive, though the heavy focus on his defense is what's making me scumlean
▼ ElijahBaley
Most of his iso just seems off to me, a lot of it gives off frustration, which normally I would associate as a town-trait, but most of the frustration comes from being suspected or asked about their stances, both of which he wasn't very forthcoming of iirc. I don't know their playstyle, but it just doesn't seem right to me
Sorry for the wait, I decided to go into everyone's iso to get a better grasp of my reads

I am not frustrated for being pushed, I am frustrated because MM and Gandhi are effectively calling my play **** and saying I'm scum because of it. This game is actually hard... btw, none of your reads strike me as you being particularly confident in. Why not sheep me and vote BuzzerBee and MM, since I have a much stronger scum lean on these two than anyone else does on me?

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:42:21

Marshmallow Marshall wrote:

Also, I am not big into worldbuilding right now because there's little to work with, but if I had to give scummates to Elijah, it'd be among the inactives: it somewhat feels like he's distracting from their inactivity by calling Buzzerbee out for "being busy" (despite it being completely legitimate and despite Buzzer being honestly contributive). As for Pqwerty, I am debating whether or not he'd sheep Elijah THAT openly if he were scum with him. I think it's not impossible (especially knowing Elijah). And if you're going to say "b-but Pqwerty claimed anti-town town role!", that legit means nothing at all. Scum can do that, and may even have interest in doing so to 1) get towncred and 2) excuse their survival on the long run. Of course, it's not scummy in itself, but it's also not towny, and I feel like people are giving him a free pass for it.

when have you ever done that as Mafia. I have literally never done anything like you suggest, and I have never witnessed anyone else doing it (except in the mod)

I actually think Marshmallow Marshall is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense. Normally he's the one defending me from a lynch, now he's pushing for mine. I think Marshmallow is 100% Mafia.

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:54:36

I think I know why I am being voted, and will briefly explain myself:

1. I believe people are voting me for not having "any reads". To some degree this is true, but this unfortunate situation is not due to lack of trying, believe me. It's just that nearly every post this game looks wholly NAI, they're "logical" posts which could come from any alignment. I am used to people being more emotional in games, getting angry over getting scum read, insanely toxic TvT fights wherein both of the two townies are trying to kill each other, etc. None of this happened this game except for when I pushed Minimania. I've legit skimmed (I haven't read in depth, I may do that at some later point), pretty much through every post in the game and nearly all of them have a scummish-null vibe to them.

2. I am very defensive. Yes, I am very defensive especially towards MM and Gandhi, because as stated above, they are calling my play **** and saying I don't have intent to scum hunt, which is patently false. I absolutely do have intent and even attempted to scum hunt, you just don't see me flooding the thread with nonsense over my MANY attempts.

Please reply to this post, it is imperative that if you vote me 1) and you are town 2) (but even if you are Mafia, then you can get outed and lynched) that you reply so I can convince you of my towniness.

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 09:56:54

also, I am against this Condorcet idea. I was not going to state it when Minimania suggested it even though I was already against it at the time, but averaging people's scum reads does not really do anything, it's simply 'fairer', whatever that means. if you have 4 wildly different people making different reads, and you 'average' that out, you don't really get anything back. and in this case, you really don't get anything back at all, because I'm town xD

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 10:02:29

Minimania wrote:

Oh, yeah you know what, that's entirely fair.
But still then, what anti town role can you be if not Mafia?

this is a good question, because I've looked at the Normal Game page on Mafia Scum and the only anti-town role I could find that was "explicitly normal" is Miller, and Miller is not a role that you should hide as a claim.

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 10:18:41

also, I won't even belabour how anti-town it is to focus on one guy pretty much all game. I am town, what are you guys doing to do when I get lynched? as it stands, town is royally f u c k e d when I'm dead, because nobody here is genuinely scummy, with the possible exception of Marshmallow Marshall (I am no longer as certain of BuzzerBee being scum as I once was, I reread one of the posts that pinged me and it doesn't look as bad as I thought). I actually wonder if one of the people driving my train isn't specifically trying to get me lynched because 1) they are Mafia and 2) they don't want people to get CFD'd.

alternatively, people are reading my play as "aggressive" for wanting to "lynch and hammer" without info.

ElijahBaley · 2022-09-05 10:26:13

and if you are going to lynch me, for the love of God, trust my read on Minimania and leave them alone. he is THE ONLY person all game who did anything that alignment indicative, please don't usher them out the door.

and push and even lynch, if possible, Marshmallow Marshall.

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