John's Departure

peace · 2020-05-12 14:51:52

can you guys sotp blaming john he did noting wrong

Security-Drone · 2020-05-12 14:57:16

If the game were to be transferred then all recently departed staff (gravestone) would re-join and then the game would thrive much more in terms of production and eventually in terms of playerbase.
It's what a large amount of the community hopes for.

Either way best of luck, if things change then you wouldn't be the only one trying to save the game again. If not then make sure you implement the items we (mini+me) made as desired d:

Luka504, 2b55b5g

Luka504 · 2020-05-12 14:58:05

Guys, let's not resort to insulting John. If John refuses to listen and will not be swayed in any way despite the numerous red flags, then there's not much more we can do. If he's so gung ho about trying to fix a sinking ship, then that's ultimately his time and talent wasted.

Besides, knowing Xeno, he's gonna royally **** something up sooner or later. John's going to get sick of his **** as well, all it takes is time.

Minisaurus · 2020-05-12 14:59:15

John wrote:

Kira wrote:
The reason why Zoey, BuzzerBee, Ravatroll, Minisaurus and Lukem left was to make Xenonetix realize his faults and poor leadership but you’re basically doing the contrary of “Saving EE” by joining the team and helping with the development.
I John the mastermind of technology will save EE, here I flex my student degree to proof that I am the smartest kid in the room
Kira wrote:
Someone had to say it, and I will:
I am too fabulous to care for mistakes from the past, I will ignore everything that surrounds me

If you say that nothing of that matter, and that you will be ignoring this community and the mistakes/abuses that Xenonetix do, then there is not big a difference between you and Xenonetix, there has been threads that shown your Hipocricy, and I hope you prove that previous topics about you wrong and not prove them right once again

You can have the skills, I also have the skills too, but that does not worth your integrity as a developer, it is unethical to ignore that all what you are doing won´t change Xenonetix in anyhow, he will still be the same guy who were responsible of the departure of 6 staff members, the same guy who delayed the game development for 3 years in result of his mental instability (He himself said that he had anger issues and mental issues), the same guy who insulted many underaged members of the community

John, the major issue I had with Xenonetix was micromanaging, but I saw worse micromanages than me,
I quit solely for empathy, for love to the game, because I have seen how Xenonetix threat horribly other members of the community, and how he control everything, micromanage every single thing of the game, the only real employer from his company is himself
I recommend you to go check the community topics and understand that whatever we do to help the game, it will mean nothing if we don´t fix the ownership of the game
If you don´t want do the right thing based on your own experience, do it for empathy, we want to make Xenonetix understand that the best action he can do now is give ownership to someone who can run the game properly

Falk, St1ckS4m(EE)

2b55b5g · 2020-05-12 15:03:43

hey this sounds bad but i honestly wanna see the game to either be saved by john, or ultimately be ruined by xeno.
i simply don't care anymore cuz i believe nothing can change xeno

Falk

mutantdevle · 2020-05-12 15:03:52

I think the major flaw in people's logic in this thread is that they think John joining the staff team makes it less likely that Xeno is going to quit. I very strongly suspect that John's role in the team will have no impact on Xeno's consideration for resigning as the only thing that would make Xeno resign would be if he is given enough money to do so. He's the kind of guy that would try to develop the game regardless of who has quit which was exemplified by his relaxed and even positive reaction to all the staff doing so.

2b55b5g, Luka504, John, Yoshi2018, rat, skullz17, St1ckS4m(EE)

TaskManager · 2020-05-12 15:09:56

I think Emalton's decision to join EE development is a just cause
I only feel salty because it took so many staff departures to teach xeno a damn lesson and make him gtfo which isn't going to happen now because he probably feels like he just dodged a bullet and may carry on at the same attitude
It's a shame that xeno will be the first one to reap benefits from Emalton's work because there are morons that still donate to his (xeno's) Patreon

Luka504, Falk, rat

TaskManager · 2020-05-12 15:11:33

Ninjad

mutantdevle wrote:

the only thing that would make Xeno resign would be if he is given enough money to do so

Maybe if the number of devs in his team approached zero, he would have reconsidered
He's not a man of his word

mutantdevle · 2020-05-12 15:19:50

TaskManager wrote:

Maybe if the number of devs in his team approached zero, he would have reconsidered
He's not a man of his word

He claims he has invested over £3000 of his own money into the game. Considering he doesn't have a job outside of EE, I think it's going to take a whole lot more than just having no staff for him to resign without at least making some of it back. I think it's fair to make an analogy about gambling here. Even when someone who is addicted to gambling loses their whole livelihood it doesn't teach them any lesson - they're just gonna gamble everything they make in the hope that striking lucky will make them rich and solve their problems.

Minimania · 2020-05-12 15:33:23

Xeno isn't gonna quit period

Minisaurus · 2020-05-12 15:39:57

I think that even if he won´t quit, I hope at least that he won´t commit the mistakes/abuses he made in the past
It would be a shame if all these topics made for him and the staff quitting only means for him a delay of time and continue abusing, micromanaging and doing mistakes

Yoshi2018

Minimania · 2020-05-12 15:43:41

You can only really hope that he takes it upon himself to approve

John · 2020-05-12 16:00:22

mutantdevle wrote:

He's the kind of guy that would try to develop the game regardless of who has quit which was exemplified by his relaxed and even positive reaction to all the staff doing so.

Can confirm this, yeah this is pretty much it.

Minisaurus wrote:

"I John the mastermind of technology will save EE, here I flex my student degree to proof that I am the smartest kid in the room"

This wasn't the message I was trying to convey - I don't even have my degree yet. I was saying how Everybody Edits helped me and how it can help other people pursue their dreams or get introduced to the technology field and do well.

mutantdevle, Bimps, St1ckS4m(EE)

TaskManager · 2020-05-12 16:25:29

John wrote:

"I John the mastermind of technology will save EE, here I flex my student degree to proof that I am the smartest kid in the room"

I can't find where mini said this but on a totally unrelated note I just wanted to point out that this actually sounds so much like cercul introducing himself lmao

Security-Drone · 2020-05-12 16:28:38

mutantdevle wrote:

He's the kind of guy that would try to develop the game regardless of who has quit which was exemplified by his relaxed and even positive reaction to all the staff doing so.

less staff to pay that way :^)
not that we were paid

Bimps · 2020-05-12 17:15:55

Luka504 wrote:

Guys, let's not resort to insulting John. If John refuses to listen and will not be swayed in any way despite the numerous red flags, then there's not much more we can do. If he's so gung ho about trying to fix a sinking ship, then that's ultimately his time and talent wasted.
Besides, knowing Xeno, he's gonna royally **** something up sooner or later. John's going to get sick of his **** as well, all it takes is time.

What? Emalton knows Xeno better than almost all of us. Don't act like Emalton is an idiot.

Minisaurus · 2020-05-12 18:01:20

John wrote:

Minisaurus wrote:
"I John the mastermind of technology will save EE, here I flex my student degree to proof that I am the smartest kid in the room"
(EE basically molded the person that I am today in so many ways. It is common knowledge that there is a very strong development presence in this community, in fact it's how I got interested in computers and automation. I pretty much knew instantly that I wanted to go in the tech field after toying around with EE and C#. In middle school, I worked for a local software company which was an amazing experience that I was fortunate enough to have. Fast forward to high school, I was the president and lead programmer of the VEX robotics club that we had. VEX Robotics was very fun and competitive and if you're reading this and you are interested in programming, building, gaming, then you should form or join a team in your area. Fast forward to graduation, I decide to go to the local university to major in Computer Networking and minor in Computer Science / Information Security Management / Project Management, in an effort to become as well rounded as I can be. During the summer of freshman year, I get a job at a MSP as primarily a K12 Consultant. At the beginning of this year I signed a contract with a school to be their IT Director.
I can say with confidence that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for Everybody Edits, and I want to do my best to make sure my opportunity of getting involved in computers is available for other people. I know this is a long answer to your question, but I hope you understand my viewpoint and perspective.)
This wasn't the message I was trying to convey - I don't even have my degree yet. I was saying how Everybody Edits helped me and how it can help other people pursue their dreams or get introduced to the technology field and do well.

EE also helped me, and I also think that it can help other people pursue their dreams or get introduced to the technology field and do well, but the answer you gave didn´t related to the topic

It is a nice red herring, even if your purpose is to help the game, and the game help you, you are completely ignoring everything that relates to Xenonetix abuses/micromanaging, it seems that you agree with us that Xenonetix made abuses and mistakes, but you prefer to ignore all about it now, you are fine having him on power and you are fine that all your work will benefit Xenonetix more than anyone else

The feeling that the game molded who you are now makes you want to give back to the game something, but you are not seeing how much damage Xenonetix is doing to the game reputation, saying that every criticize for what you are doing is an unsolicited advice is saying that you are willing to ignore the community in order to prove yourself that now you can develop the game. Not to help the game, but yourself

I also want to help the game to grow, but I see how Xenonetix is slowly killing EE reputation
With the current staff structure, in Xenonetix hands, the game will never reach its maximum potential

Falk

Luka504 · 2020-05-12 18:04:56

Bimps wrote:

What? Emalton knows Xeno better than almost all of us. Don't act like Emalton is an idiot.

So what? Just because John knows Xeno better does not mean he isn't making a huge mistake by choosing to work for him.

Maybe if Xeno lost every developer he had, he'd realize his current behavior is not sustainable and it'd force him to step down. John's literally just thrown him a lifesaver, meaning Xeno gets to keep up with his same dickish attitude for longer.

John's intentions are good, and I don't consider him an idiot, but his actions and generally apathetic nature towards the drama are not helping.

Falk, 2b55b5g, Boba

John · 2020-05-12 18:23:52

Minisaurus wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/b4eWbZ8.png

In your diagram you put "Jhon" instead of "John"

Minisaurus wrote:

but the answer you gave didn´t related to the topic

Yes it did, I explained my rationale for joining the development team.

Minisaurus wrote:

it seems that you agree with us that Xenonetix made abuses and mistakes

I haven't said anything about Xenonetix - I merely stated that if you have issues with him, then take it up with him, not me.

Minisaurus wrote:

saying that every criticize for what you are doing is an unsolicited advice is saying that you are willing to ignore the community

I'm not ignoring the community - I've read every message that was posted here and PMed to me. I only said to you that I'd like to "unsubscribe" from your repetitive posts because I've seen it multiple times already. You've said the exact same message several times even after I asked kindly to stop twice. I merely said that I'd like to unsubscribe from your repetitive comments because, well, they're repetitive. Constantly repeating yourself doesn't make your opinion correct.

Minisaurus wrote:

Not to help the game, but yourself

I fail to see how I'm helping myself instead of helping the game? Your theory that staffing will determine if Xenonetix will give away is just that - a theory.

Security-Drone wrote:

less staff to pay that way :^)

I'm here to volunteer so I don't really couldn't care less if I get paid or not. I'm just trying to help out.

I apologize if I sounded rude or harsh in this post, that of course, wasn't my intention - it was to more or less convey my intentions for joining the team. I want to help the game succeed the best way that I can, like all of you, and my opinion is that if I get involved it will be better I think. I didn't want to be in the position when the game dies, and I had the ability to help and I didn't, if that makes sense.

EDIT:
Typos :c

Yoshi2018

peace · 2020-05-12 18:39:11

can we all stop thi sblame
oh look 6 staff levae in a day xeno is a bad onwer
*someone joins staff team*
oh look what an idito he so dumb ect ect no STOP IT leave john alone obv he readed verything dont put any blame on him
and lets face it if we get a enw owner how long until we start to blame the new owner? 1 month? 1 week? 1 day? 1 hour? 1 min? sooner? 1 sec? 1 nano second???

Yoshi2018

Gosha · 2020-05-12 18:43:20

no matter how much you are **** about the situation, john has his own rights to do whatever he wants, no need to judge him or tell him that he is wrong. He seems to be determined and understands what he is going in to.

also peace write good posts or no one will read you like i didn't just now

Yoshi2018, John, 2b55b5g, rat, Bimps, Gabriellfs, peace

Minisaurus · 2020-05-12 18:55:27

John wrote:

Kira wrote:
The reason why Zoey, BuzzerBee, Ravatroll, Minisaurus and Lukem left was to make Xenonetix realize his faults and poor leadership but you’re basically doing the contrary of “Saving EE” by joining the team and helping with the development.
EE basically molded the person that I am today in so many ways. It is common knowledge that there is a very strong development presence in this community, in fact it's how I got interested in computers and automation. I pretty much knew instantly that I wanted to go in the tech field after toying around with EE and C#. In middle school, I worked for a local software company which was an amazing experience that I was fortunate enough to have. Fast forward to high school, I was the president and lead programmer of the VEX robotics club that we had. VEX Robotics was very fun and competitive and if you're reading this and you are interested in programming, building, gaming, then you should form or join a team in your area. Fast forward to graduation, I decide to go to the local university to major in Computer Networking and minor in Computer Science / Information Security Management / Project Management, in an effort to become as well rounded as I can be. During the summer of freshman year, I get a job at a MSP as primarily a K12 Consultant. At the beginning of this year I signed a contract with a school to be their IT Director.
I can say with confidence that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for Everybody Edits, and I want to do my best to make sure my opportunity of getting involved in computers is available for other people. I know this is a long answer to your question, but I hope you understand my viewpoint and perspective.
John wrote:
I explained my rationale for joining the development team.

You didn´t, you gave a red herring, your answer is basically telling your skills to help the game, what kira said was about Xenonetix and staff quitting, he wasn´t asking you to tell your skills to help the game, he didn´t even doubt about your skills, it was rather about that you are rather than helping the game, helping Xenonetix to keep in power without a change of aptitude

John wrote:

I haven't said anything about Xenonetix - I merely stated that if you have issues with him, then take it up with him, not me.
John wrote:
previous drama simply doesn't interest me as I'm trying to look forward.

Then you are literally saying that you don´t care Xenonetix abuses/mistakes but you are aware of it, you are not denying what we are arguing, you are just ignoring the community

John wrote:

I'm not ignoring the community - I've read every message that was posted here and PMed to me. I only said to you that I'd like to "unsubscribe" from your repetitive posts because I've seen it multiple times already. You've said the exact same message several times even after I asked kindly to stop twice. I merely said that I'd like to unsubscribe from your repetitive comments because, well, they're repetitive. Constantly repeating yourself doesn't make your opinion correct.

You are indeed not ignoring the community, but also you are ignoring all what we say based on the answers you give, you tell every comment if it is not to applause you it is not worth of your attention
It seems you like to give phallacies as answers, since telling that I say the same always is not relating to WHAT I am saying, you are not saying/proving I am wrong, you are saying I am repeating something that might be right, as you said, repeating something does not imply it is more or less right

John wrote:

I fail to see how I'm helping myself instead of helping the game? Your theory that staffing will determine if Xenonetix will give away is just that - a theory.

I didn´t tell in any moment that staffing will determine if Xenonetix will give away, that is YOUR theory, not mine, what I say is that what you are doing is not to help the game, but yourself, because it seems that you are not seeing that what you are doing rather for the game it is for Xenonetix, as he will be the one who benefit the more for your work and as I said, my theory is that the game won´t reach its full potential in Xenonetix hands, and is a theory that is not mine, it is widely supported by this community

John wrote:

I'm here to volunteer so I don't really couldn't care less if I get paid or not. I'm just trying to help out.

Of course you are here as a volunteer, everyone in the staff is a volunteer, you anyway would not receive a payment regularly in other case, nobody who was in the staff was there for money, we all who joined the staff was rather to help the game

John wrote:

I apologize if I sounded rude or harsh in this post, that of course, wasn't my intention - it was to more or less convey my intentions for joining the team. I want to help the game succeed the best way that I can, like all of you, and my opinion is that if I get involved it will be better I think. I didn't want to be in the position when the game dies, and I had the ability to help and I didn't, if that makes sense.

That is excessively egocentric, it would not be a big difference if you joined or not the team, Joshua Stone will make the game work perfectly with you or without your help, if you join will only speed up things, but you are not crucial if that is what you wanted to tell with that statement, you are just doing it for yourself, the game is for a community and it seems that the community is what keep the game alive, not you

Falk

Falk · 2020-05-12 19:10:22

Gosha wrote:

no matter how much you are **** about the situation, john has his own rights to do whatever he wants, no need to judge him or tell him that he is wrong.

Wouldn't you try to let someone who mops the floor right below a broken pipe where sewage is dripping down from, know that they are mistaken if their goal was indeed to have the floor clean?

I would do that at a job I don't care about, to clock in work hours. But he specifically said he wants to give back to the game, to help it get fixed.

How is not noticing the source of the issues not "wrong"? How is following a "free candy" sign down a dark corridor not "judge worthy" if one can clearly see dead bodies on the floor leading up to it?

XxAtillaxX · 2020-05-12 19:25:18

John wrote:

I want to help the game succeed the best way that I can, like all of you, and my opinion is that if I get involved it will be better I think.

John, I believe you've already done your part. You are directly responsible, along with NVD, for Xenonetix owning the game. I think you're prolonging that mistake, and are doubling down on it.

In general, I couldn't care less how people intend to spend their effort or money; that solely reflects upon them and their perceived self worth. I do however find it, at the very least, curious, that you'd join the team at the precise moment the owner is under fire. You could have any time sooner, the problems now aren't new - but you didn't. I think you've made it very obvious that the goal of you joining the team is for you to repossess the game you gave to him, whether or not that's the truth, time will tell, but that's how it comes across.

Boba

John · 2020-05-12 19:47:33

Minisaurus wrote:

You didn´t, you gave a red herring, your answer is basically telling your skills to help the game, what kira said was about Xenonetix and staff quitting, he wasn´t asking you to tell your skills to help the game, he didn´t even doubt about your skills, it was rather about that you are rather than helping the game, helping Xenonetix to keep in power without a change of aptitude

I said that EE has made me into the person who I am and how it positively impacted my life, which is why I want to contribute to it's success. It's no secret that I'm not the best programmer but I'm willing to put in the effort in and try.

Minisaurus wrote:

Then you are literally saying that you don´t care Xenonetix abuses/mistakes but you are aware of it, you are not denying what we are arguing, you are just ignoring the community

I can't impact anyone else's decisions, except my own. I said if you disagree with something Xenonetix has done, then take it up with him. I don't have power over him to control what he does. Just ask for his viewpoint and perspective.

Minisaurus wrote:

you tell every comment if it is not to applause you it is not worth of your attention

I wrote:

Again, I would prefer if comments of this nature (referring to "just quit") stopped as I don't think anything will change my mind at this point. I will form my own independent opinion of Xenonetix, we've been getting along just fine anyway. We've had disagreements in the past but they've never been personal so I'm not overly worried. I just want to help the game so I would appreciate comments or suggestions about how I can do that, which don't involve leaving because that's pretty much off the table at this point.

Nowhere I see where to "not say anything if it's not to applause me"?

Minisaurus wrote:

I didn´t tell in any moment that staffing will determine if Xenonetix will give away, that is YOUR theory, not mine, what I say is that what you are doing is not to help the game, but yourself, because it seems that you are not seeing that what you are doing rather for the game it is for Xenonetix, as he will be the one who benefit the more for your work and as I said, my theory is that the game won´t reach its full potential in Xenonetix hands, and is a theory that is not mine, it is widely supported by this community

You are implying (as I understand it) that if I leave then somehow the game will magically fall into someone else's hands, which isn't necessarily true. Is this correct?

Minisaurus wrote:

Of course you are here as a volunteer, everyone in the staff is a volunteer, you anyway would not receive a payment regularly in other case, nobody who was in the staff was there for money, we all who joined the staff was rather to help the game

I was responding to Security-Drone's reply to mutant's reply:

Security-Drone wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
He's the kind of guy that would try to develop the game regardless of who has quit which was exemplified by his relaxed and even positive reaction to all the staff doing so.
less staff to pay that way :^)
not that we were paid

Minisaurus wrote:

That is the most egocentric comment I have ever seen, it would not be a big difference if you joined or not the team, Joshua Stone will make the game work perfectly with you or without your help, if you join will only speed up things, but you are not crucial if that is what you wanted to tell with that statement, you are just doing it for yourself, the game is for a community and it seems that the community is what keep the game alive, not you

I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but Joshua primarily does front-end development. LukeM did primarily back-end development. I know this because I used to work with Josh, and we've complemented our skills pretty well on BlockWorks.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

that you'd join the team at the precise moment the owner is under fire. You could have any time sooner, the problems now aren't new - but you didn't. I think you've made it very obvious that the goal of you joining the team is for you to repossess the game you gave to him, whether or not that's the truth, time will tell, but that's how it comes across.

I understand why you're speculating, but that's not true. When all the staff left the panic monster (love that video!) woke up inside of me and was like "your childhood could die" and that's why I magically came back. I can assure you that I have no intentions of owning the game, and will likely become more inactive when school starts up again. I just thought that I could help and move things along. I feel like you should know me enough at this point to know that I don't have malicious intentions (ever), so that makes me a bit sad to be honest that you think that.

I am willing to have a voice conversation about this too in the EE Discord because I feel it's really easy for things to get misinterpreted over text, and I want to make sure I can clear stuff up as best as I can

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