Mafia 36 [KIRBY WINS!]

ShadowsEdge · 2019-12-03 04:30:42

That post doesn't explain your doubts about me being a roleblocker, it shows why you thought my claim made me more suspicious on the accounts it made.

Minimania · 2019-12-03 04:36:02

Well I didn't make it clear enough then. The fact that you hadn't really done anything particularly useful with your role made me doubt it

Different55 · 2019-12-03 04:48:19

ShadowsEdge wrote:

False. Peace claimed to being infected already, no sane person would vote for him, especially since there's no evidence that points to him being mafia at the moment. Same thing goes for Zelda. There's no possible way that Zelda would win, even as being infected. We already know Zelda is confirmed as the other Brother in Arms, if they were infected, them acting scummy would only prove that they were infected. If they wanted to try and win by not revealing they were infected, they would only die any later reveal they were infected, since no one would vote for them if they're confirmed town.
And to notate a couple of points, it's unlikely Peace is still infected, no one claims to being infected still, which could ONLY be Zelda if that were the case, and Peace did not die last night from not infecting anyone. Both of these point to Jawapa having cured Peace of the infection, like he said he would. Furthermore, it's unlikely that Zelda would win as an infectee, because as I mentioned before, no one would vote for them, and it would instead, only bring about their downfall, since Peace claims that Infectees have to infect someone to avoid dying, and no one would vote for Zelda, thus causing his death.

??? Nothing about what I said is false. If Zelda is infected, it's in his best interest to keep it quiet. Peace hasn't appeared yet, but even then, with Jawapa gone it's in his best interest to keep it quiet, too, now that there's no chance of going back. No, there's no chance he'd win if he were infected. But that's the best move he'd have. Even if they die, there's still the possibility of others being infected in the background. Pushing again the possibility that I'm not P0, necessarily meaning that P0 operates some way other than votes.

If any new children of P0 exist, it's also in their best interest to keep it quiet. How many power roles do we have claims for now? We should keep an eye on how many night actions are flying around each night, and keep comparing that to the number of claimed power roles. If it starts going down, we have a bit of a problem.

As far as those in the foreground, Peace is not currently dead. That means one of two things. Either he's cured, or he infected Zelda and lives another day. We don't know for sure, so they can't be trusted. We'll only know they can't be trusted after the fact, if they both drop dead.

So like tl;dr there:
If Zelda is infected, there's no reason for him to tell.
If Peace is still infected, he's probably going to tell despite there being no reason for it.
We can't know if either of them are clean until they drop dead.

None of the above are false.

Minimania

ShadowsEdge · 2019-12-03 05:03:10

Peace has been open about being infected. In all honesty, the infection does it's best if it goes unknown, because then they can grow their standings in secrecy to the town. Peace revealed the notion of the infection, thus that option of secrecy is lost.

The fact that Peace so openly revealed that information just proves that if he was still infected, he would reveal that information. And even at that, it's unlikely that he is infected, due to the fact that Jawapa claimed he would be healing peace, and, if I am the only roleblocker left, that makes it impossible for Jawapa to have been roleblocked. That points to the fact that Peace is no longer infected. And even if he is still infected, all Peace would talk about yesterday was the infection and his attempts to remove it from himself, if he is still infected, it'll become very clear.

Using these points, I can further my argument on Zelda still being town. Them staying "hidden" from being infected is the worst play they could make. They were originally town, and staying hidden is only going to cause their death, as they wont be able to infect anyone. They have no chance of winning, even if they are infected, because no one in the town would vote for them unless they're throwing. And it would be throwing in both senses. Zelda willingly went along with the situation, knowing it would result in their demise because they knew it was for the betterment of the town, that ideology is also one of the reasons I believe that they aren't infected.

Furthermore, back to the idea that Peace will become obvious if they're still infected, if Peace is still infected, it will become obvious that Zelda is also infected, because the only person to vote for Peace was Zelda. Because of this, it's also more likely that neither of them are infected, as Peace was likely healed, and Peace did not infect Zelda.

Now moving on from this, you're adamant to push the idea that the infection is still around. Why is that? What is it about the infection that you're so eager to claim that Peace and Zelda are both infected? Furthermore, why do you believe that Zelda would lie about their position if ultimately it'll all end in the same result?

Minimania · 2019-12-03 05:05:59

Myself
ShadowsEdge (Possible Mafia)
Slabdrill (Possible Mafia)
mutantdevle (Town Confirmed)
peace (Possible Mafia) (Infected)
NorwegianboyEE (Town Confirmed)
Pqwerty (Hitman)
Different55 (Patient 0 Assuming)
ZeldaXD (Town Confirmed) (Infected)

Assuming the worst case scenario, we've already lost, pretty much.

Assuming the best case scenario:

Myself
ShadowsEdge (Possible Mafia)
Slabdrill (Possible Mafia)
mutantdevle (Town Confirmed)
peace (Possible Mafia)
NorwegianboyEE (Town Confirmed)
Pqwerty (Hitman)
Different55 (Patient 0 Assuming)
ZeldaXD (Town Confirmed)

In the 2nd best possible scenario, there's Patient 0, Hitman, and 2 threats to the town left, leaving 4 out of 9. If we mislynch tonight, we basically lose.

Minimania · 2019-12-03 05:09:03

And honestly, we lose anyway

Different55 · 2019-12-03 05:20:27

My friend I can't help but disagree with just about everything you said.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

The fact that Peace so openly revealed that information just proves that if he was still infected, he would reveal that information.

Peace did that because A. he's peace and B. he also had information that could lead to him being healed. That option, IF it failed, is gone now, locking him into infection.

And even at that, it's unlikely that he is infected, due to the fact that Jawapa claimed he would be healing peace, and, if I am the only roleblocker left, that makes it impossible for Jawapa to have been roleblocked.

Depends on priorities, whether or not Jawapa was killed before or after he healed Peace, and whether he healed Peace at all. He was adamant yesterday he'd let Peace rot away.

And even if he is still infected, all Peace would talk about yesterday was the infection and his attempts to remove it from himself, if he is still infected, it'll become very clear.

Probably one thing I'll agree on.

Using these points, I can further my argument on Zelda still being town. Them staying "hidden" from being infected is the worst play they could make. They were originally town, and staying hidden is only going to cause their death, as they wont be able to infect anyone. They have no chance of winning, even if they are infected, because no one in the town would vote for them unless they're throwing. And it would be throwing in both senses. Zelda willingly went along with the situation, knowing it would result in their demise because they knew it was for the betterment of the town, that ideology is also one of the reasons I believe that they aren't infected.

Disagree. If Zelda avoids infection, he guarantees a loss. Seeking Salvation Through Infection, he almost guarantees a loss. Considering Peace, I don't really think gamethrowing is something to actually worry about.

Now moving on from this, you're adamant to push the idea that the infection is still around. Why is that? What is it about the infection that you're so eager to claim that Peace and Zelda are both infected? Furthermore, why do you believe that Zelda would lie about their position if ultimately it'll all end in the same result?

Note that every time I mentioned infection wrt those two, I said if. We don't know that they're infected. We can't know unless they both drop dead, so they can't be trusted until that point. The safest play is to act as if they are so we aren't underestimating anything.

Also, Crybaby, is peace not confirmed town assuming he's not infected? He correctly called out Jawapa. Unless he's a mafia cop, ig.

Minimania

Minimania · 2019-12-03 05:33:48

Different55 wrote:

Also, Crybaby, is peace not confirmed town assuming he's not infected? He correctly called out Jawapa. Unless he's a mafia cop, ig.

I'm like 89% certain Peace is town disregarding the infection, but I've been wrong before and we've never confirmed anything so idk

ShadowsEdge · 2019-12-03 05:38:31

Thinking on it, the people I think that could be Mafia are only Crybaby, Slabdrill, Mutant, and Peace. Everyone else I feel is confirmed as town or a separate role. At this moment in time, I'm not convinced that Different is town, but in the same token, I also don't believe they're mafia. Mutant I don't have a strong belief of believing they're mafia, same for Peace. Which only leads me to believing the remaining scum team is Crybaby and Slabdrill. Thoughts on that anyone?

Also, thanks for giving me the idea to look back at the player list to narrow down the mafia. I didn't realize how many people are confirmed as a specific role, or at least partially confirmed.

As for Diff's post, simple answer: Agree to disagree. At this point, we're just flexing our arguments and getting nowhere with it, because I don't plan on backing down on my stance, and I assume you don't plan on doing the same. So if you want to argue about it more, then go ahead, but I'll wait until more people join in, since now it feels like I'm just talking to a brick wall.

Minimania

Different55 · 2019-12-03 06:54:17

Went to collect notes on everyone and something stuck out, Slabdrill claims Victory Cop and says Mutant has a "standard" "eliminate all non-town" wincon. Which is odd since even KirbyKira didn't go that far. Even KirbyKira's wincon was just "eliminate all criminals." Anyway, Slab did that N1, and has nothing to report for N2, claiming they investigated Jawapa moments before death. A cover for skipping a night to perform the kill?

We haven't heard anything about Mutant's N2 actions yet, and they've already outed themselves as a cop so. Then again, Mutant seems to strongly put Slabdrill as maf in all his reads, and countered Kira's "I'm neutral!" claim with a "You're filthy scum!" claim. If Mutant was scum, he's throwing all his teammates under buses. So. Don't know what to make of any of that for real.

But Norboy, out of curiosity what's your win condition? You're probably the closest thing we got to a vanilla townie.

Also man there's a lot of investigative and killing roles. We've got 3 killing roles dead and confirmed (Kirby, Jawapa, Kira). Two of those are town. Crybaby also claims a killing role. We also have 3 investigative roles (Peace, Slab, Mutant). One neutralized/infected, none confirmed. Norboy is Innochild, Shadow claims roleblocker, Zelda is/was a Brother in Arms, Pqwerty has made no claims but it's likely he's the Hitman, and that's everyone.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-12-03 07:00:37

Different55 wrote:

We haven't heard anything about Mutant's N2 actions yet, and they've already outed themselves as a cop so. Then again, Mutant seems to strongly put Slabdrill as maf in all his reads, and countered Kira's "I'm neutral!" claim with a "You're filthy scum!" claim. If Mutant was scum, he's throwing all his teammates under buses. So. Don't know what to make of any of that for real.

Man either you missed it or you really haven't been paying attention:

mutantdevle wrote:

Slabdrill is town. The game isn't solved. Back to the drawing board.

Slabdrill what was your result?
Peace are you still infected?
Zelda are you infected?
Crybaby, why isn't diff dead?

Mutant investigated Slabdrill last night. Although, he has showed that he also suspects Slabdrill of being the Godfather:

mutantdevle wrote:

I don’t consider my result on 100%, especially not with how unhelpful his investigation is, as I think it’s entirely possible he is a godfather. Jawapa’s death is surprising. I was the obvious kill. Slabdrill was also who I was obviously going to investigate. I’ve been kept alive for a reason. It could very well be to confirm Slabdrill as town.

Different55 wrote:

Went to collect notes on everyone and something stuck out, Slabdrill claims Victory Cop and says Mutant has a "standard" "eliminate all non-town" wincon. Which is odd since even KirbyKira didn't go that far. Even KirbyKira's wincon was just "eliminate all criminals." Anyway, Slab did that N1, and has nothing to report for N2, claiming they investigated Jawapa moments before death. A cover for skipping a night to perform the kill?
We haven't heard anything about Mutant's N2 actions yet, and they've already outed themselves as a cop so. Then again, Mutant seems to strongly put Slabdrill as maf in all his reads, and countered Kira's "I'm neutral!" claim with a "You're filthy scum!" claim. If Mutant was scum, he's throwing all his teammates under buses. So. Don't know what to make of any of that for real.
But Norboy, out of curiosity what's your win condition? You're probably the closest thing we got to a vanilla townie.
Also man there's a lot of investigative and killing roles. We've got 3 killing roles dead and confirmed (Kirby, Jawapa, Kira). Two of those are town. Crybaby also claims a killing role. We also have 3 investigative roles (Peace, Slab, Mutant). One neutralized/infected, none confirmed. Norboy is Innochild, Shadow claims roleblocker, Zelda is/was a Brother in Arms, Pqwerty has made no claims but it's likely he's the Hitman, and that's everyone.

For as crazy as it is, it's still interesting.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-12-03 07:01:21

Whoops, for the last quote I meant to only quote the last paragraph but it quotes the entire message. My bad.

Minimania · 2019-12-03 07:05:14

ZeldaXD wrote:

No, I am not infected.

Is this all you have to offer us right now

mutantdevle

Different55 · 2019-12-03 07:27:42

So Mutant and Slab have claimed each other are town and that's just about all we have on either of them besides Mutant bussing Kira.

Pqwerty · 2019-12-03 08:17:49

Hey everyone. After going through all 28 pages of this, I have some big conclusions to make.

1) Diff is absolutely "Patient 0".

Why?
Peace was the only person to vote for Diff, and he got infected. According to #201, the only way you can only spread the disease to people who voted for you the previous day.

Well why didn't the Roleblock work?
It's either the disease doesn't spread at night (where the people who vote for the infected get infected as soon as they vote, but aren't alerted until the nighttime) OR the disease is immune to Roleblocking. In post #574, Onjit said that he would say Yes to every role question (to avoid host meta), even if the answer was actually No. So, it is possible that the infection is RB immune.

Why is Zelda denying being infected?
That would be gamethrowing. As Diff said in #671, it would be gamethrowing because there is no way to cure the infection, so Zelda would be going against their irreversible wincon if they said they were infected.

2) Diff is NOT immune to kills.

Why?
As shown in posts #616, #627, and #628, Diff is too adamant about not being killed to have kill immunity.

3) Crybaby and Slabdrill are the remaining Mafia members.

Why Slabdrill?

Out of the blue (while not under any pressure from town), Slabdrill claimed that he is a Victory Condition Cop because he was probably going to die soon (post #499). He said he was going to die because his role is better than Mutant's, but he did not die. Victory Condition Cop is an easy role for mafia to claim when you have both the win condition for mafia and the win condition for town (the town win condition came from Norwegian's role reveal D1). Also, it's extremely convenient that Slab investigated Mutant (an easy townread) and Jawapa (a dead man). If you look at Slab's posts, there hasn't been any scumhunting going on whatsoever. Also, in post #479, Slab says that he doesn't fully believe Crybaby's vig claim, but doesn't explain why. Maybe this doubt comes from Slab knowing that Crybaby is his mafia partner.

I think Slab is the godfather because in #387, he asked Mutant (the faction cop) to investigate him, and obviously the godfather would ask to be investigated because the faction cop would get him as town (like what Mutant did in #636).

Why Crybaby?
Just like Slab, Crybaby claimed that he was vig (with no pressure to claim) after a "slip-up" in post #232. In #235, he says that he has to use his night action tonight (because we assume that the mafia would want to kill the vig, and it would be a waste for the vig to die without firing). Surprisingly (just like Slab), Crybaby didn't die either (even though Vig is a very dangerous role for the mafia). Vig is an easy role to claim if you already have a nightkill as mafia. Also, only one person died N1 and N2. If we really had all these killing roles, wouldn't you guys expect more carnage? Also, only one person died on N2 and it wasn't Diff. How did Diff survive if you weren't RB'd by the town's RB (who has no reason to lie about the block) and Diff isn't immune to nightkills? The only way I can see it is that Crybaby used his nightkill on Jawapa, and mafia only gets one kill per night, so he only got the one kill. Also, Crybaby spent the whole D2 helping Kira try and mislynch the town RB.

Also, in post #160, Crybaby says that Kirby was "an important kill" (direct quote) instead of "a big loss for the town". It just struck me as something the mafia would say, but I didn't know how much "proof" it really is.

4) Why isn't Mutant a suspect?
He wouldn't bus Kira so early.

tldr; Diff is Patient 0, Crybaby and Slab are the remaining mafia. I'm going to start the lynch on them, and Shadow should block the other one and be amazed that there won't be any kills tonight.

!vote Crybaby

Norwee, mutantdevle

peace · 2019-12-03 08:33:56

wooow this escalated quickly pookay so heres what ahaapend durin gnigh tto me none voted for me so i ahd to pray jawapa woudl cure me so i was wating to see myself dying i woeke up to remeber oh hey the thread shoudl be open i checked my pm and saw i was cured what i find odd is jawapa died why did he die?

alos why didnt diff die he didnt spread infection... he must have a stronger rolecard also what i find odd is why are wet tryign so hard for an hitman if it MABY dooesnt exist kirby coudld have that wincon wihtout an hitman existing to foool kirby around with guessing now lest read the rest

peace · 2019-12-03 08:39:07

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Yes, because the Hitman is a confirmed role. Kira could claim Hitman easily because after Kirby's flip, it was revealed in his win condition that the scum we have to capture are three mafia, and a Hitman.

just because it si kirb y flisps doesnt mean its confirmed to exist its a colosed setup after all shadow unless you kwno more then we know..

Minimania · 2019-12-03 08:52:27

Pqwerty wrote:

Why Crybaby?
Just like Slab, Crybaby claimed that he was vig (with no pressure to claim) after a "slip-up" in post #232. In #235, he says that he has to use his night action tonight (because we assume that the mafia would want to kill the vig, and it would be a waste for the vig to die without firing). Surprisingly (just like Slab), Crybaby didn't die either (even though Vig is a very dangerous role for the mafia). Vig is an easy role to claim if you already have a nightkill as mafia. Also, only one person died N1 and N2. If we really had all these killing roles, wouldn't you guys expect more carnage? Also, only one person died on N2 and it wasn't Diff. How did Diff survive if you weren't RB'd by the town's RB (who has no reason to lie about the block) and Diff isn't immune to nightkills? The only way I can see it is that Crybaby used his nightkill on Jawapa, and mafia only gets one kill per night, so he only got the one kill. Also, Crybaby spent the whole D2 helping Kira try and mislynch the town RB.
Also, in post #160, Crybaby says that Kirby was "an important kill" (direct quote) instead of "a big loss for the town". It just struck me as something the mafia would say, but I didn't know how much "proof" it really is.

Your post is great but it doesn't account for the fact that you're scum. You're the only person who hasn't said anything about their own role, and, lo-and-behold, the only empty slot we have is the hitman. I'm willing to bet your wincon involves lynching me, right?

Also, your assessment about the Vigilante role is wrong too. I only get 1 bullet. You can't honestly expect multiple kills every day unless you had a nightkill every night just like the Mafia. Jawapa could only kill people who were town and I only had one shot, soooooo, yeah

While Shadow has no reason to lie about not role blocking me, Diff has a reason to lie about being immune to nightkills. It keeps his role more kept in secrecy, which gives him an advantage as it gives people less information to work with in how to deal with him. On another note, these aren't even the only possibilities and you completely ignored the posts between me Shadow and Norboy discussing the possibility that there could be other Mafia roles or other mechanics at play here, too. I have no clue why Diff didn't die. All I know is that he didn't.

I built up a case against Shadow because I really believed he was kind of scummy. Everything I said about him last night is still true tonight, by the way.

peace · 2019-12-03 08:59:11

alos this mechanic of sacrefising your role to do th enigh kill is a nice way iinstead of having an standard broing goon

Pqwerty · 2019-12-03 09:08:41

Crybaby wrote:

While Shadow has no reason to lie about not role blocking me, Diff has a reason to lie about being immune to nightkills. It keeps his role more kept in secrecy, which gives him an advantage as it gives people less information to work with in how to deal with him. On another note, these aren't even the only possibilities and you completely ignored the posts between me Shadow and Norboy discussing the possibility that there could be other Mafia roles or other mechanics at play here, too. I have no clue why Diff didn't die. All I know is that he didn't.

Listen. If Diff is immune to kills, then there's no way to kill him whatsoever, because a lynch on Diff would infect the entire town.

Pqwerty · 2019-12-03 09:09:41

Crybaby and what do you suppose the mafia did? Steal your bullet?

Norwee

Minimania · 2019-12-03 09:12:15

Pqwerty wrote:

Crybaby and what do you suppose the mafia did? Steal your bullet?

I brought up multiple possibilities. They could have a 2nd roleblocker. They could have a nurse/protective role and just protected Diff. Amongst other things I think these two are likely, though not as likely as Diff just being immune to nightkills

Pqwerty · 2019-12-03 09:14:39

Again, if Diff is immune to nightkills, then it's impossible to kill him without infecting the whole town.

Minimania · 2019-12-03 09:19:40

Lynching him?

Minimania · 2019-12-03 09:20:09

With the way Peace described the way he got infected, it seems to me that only one person who votes for Diff gets infected

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!vote Crybaby

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