Mafia 35 game thread [MAFIA WINS] (GAME OVER)

TaskManager · 2019-11-05 00:29:57

Crybaby wrote:

man

Slabdrill, rat

Minimania · 2019-11-05 00:31:31

yeah okay TaskMANager

TaskManager · 2019-11-05 00:32:32

Crybaby wrote:

yeah okay TaskMANager

i literally rewatched that scene on YT before reading your post and i just had to make use of the meme

Minimania

mutantdevle · 2019-11-05 01:18:10

Crybaby, what's with your needless aggressive and nitpicky post?

TaskManager, I'm not going to respond directly to you because I think all the issues you have with my approach to this day will be answered in my response to Crybaby:

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Okay, so I kinda expected myself and peace to be in the first pool.
Explain why

I expected peace to be in the lynch pool because it's the meme-y thing to do. It's basically a free misslynch for the mafia.
I expected myself to be in the lynch pool because, again, it's a meme-y thing to do. Furthermore, putting a player who is unlikely to be lynched in the lynch pool focusses the lynch onto the other 2 players.

I expected us both to be in the lynch pool because, yet again, that's the meme thing to do. This forum is inherently meme-y. Wouldn't it be funny if the player people consider to be the strongest is in the same pool as the player who is considered to be the weakest?

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
And for that reason, I think this pool is 100% town.
You came to this conclusion way too quickly. You and peace being in the pool does not mean the pool is 100% town, especially considering this "evidence" you proport to have has nothing to do with the third player. In addition, there is no way in hell any of the three of you can be auto-trusted.

As I clearly stated, I had been thinking on the idea that myself and peace would be in the starting pool before the day even started. Why then is it so hard to believe that I'd come to this conclusion as quickly as I did? In fact, why do you even think it's so hard to come to instant conclusions, is that something you don't consider possible?

My logic behind believing that peace and I would be in the pool together relies on the basis that the mafia are memeing. Aka they're not taking the pool too seriously. Hence, that naturally extends to the third candidate making it more likely that the third candidate is also town.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
That said, if anyone in the pool is mafia then it’s shadowsedge
Why?

peace only even ends up in the lynch pool when he is town. As mafia, peace would be incredibly obvious. He'd be lynched very quickly if put into the pool. Then, forcing town to lynch peace on a day where we have full control of the lynch is obviously better for the mafia than wasting him in a pool lynch. For this reason, peace simply being in the pool made me conclude he was town. If you have any reason to believe scum would put scum!peace in the lynch pool then I'd love to hear it.

Obviously, I then know myself to be town. Hence, based on my conclusion above there only player that ever has a chance of being mafia was the third person (especially considering my previous logic as to why the third person is likely to be town is not absolute).

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
and, to be honest, it’s going to take quite a lot to convince me to lynch peace instead.
Oh, really? Is that so?
mutantdevle wrote:
**** it
!vote peace
I have no reason to think that Onjit would try to trick us (he’s capable of tricks, but I think he’d want to stay in the game) so Shadowsedge is also a lock town read for me. This pool is blatantly all town so I guess that means we default to lynching the least useful.
Well, that was a **** lie.

Was it? Please point out where I lied. I made a statement, my statement turned out to be wrong. That's not lying, that's simply being wrong. The fact that you're trying to frame this as a lie is incredibly manipulative. Furthermore, you were given full context as to why my mind changed. I didn't recall Onjit's post when making my previous conclusion. When I realised this information, it affected my conclusion. What part of that do you have difficulty with?

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
I know I’m town.
Really? Because we don't.

Okay, what's your point? This is a fact that I'm very aware of and has no impact on anything I have said.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Perhaps for me today will be about convincing y’all that’s true.
You've gots a lots of 'splainin' to do Mr. Mutant.

As do you.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
After all, it’s perfectly reasonable to point to me as a player who would put myself in the pool.
I'll come back to this later on in my post because I have something to say about this.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
By from the perspective of believing me to be town, the reason mafia would put someone like me (a hard to lynch player) into the pool would be to narrow the lynch down to the other 2 players in the pool.
You aren't so hard to lynch anymore, Mutant. If you make yourself out to be the scummiest player in a game like this, where a lynch is required every single day, then it's very likely that you can die, so don't be so reckless.

Do you disagree that I'm a player that's generally considered harder to lynch? What do you think would be the reason that mafia would put me in the pool assuming I am town? I find it hard to believe that you'd come to a conclusion that doesn't match mine.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Scum peace is never placed into the pool - especially not this early.
Explain.

- Peace is likely to be lynched in any pool regardless of his alignment.
- Peace is very obvious when he is mafia.
- Putting peace in the scum pool as mafia almost guarantees his lynch.
- Even if the mafia wanted to get rid of scum!peace, they'd prefer that he be lynched when we can choose anyone rather than just handing him over when they get to choose who the lynch candidates are.
- Any half-decent mafia would realise this.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
For that alone peace is a lock town read for me. He is the lynch bait.
One could consider you the lynch bait because
mutantdevle wrote:
it’s perfectly reasonable to point to me as a player who would put myself in the pool.
and the same goes for ShadowsEdge.

You clearly do not understand what lynch bait means. peace is lynch bait because people naturally want to lynch him, all the mafia then have to do is put him forward. The reason you just gave for why myself and shadow are supposedly 'lynch bait' is actually wifom. All it means is that you can't rule us out as being mafia based on pool composition alone.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
I have no doubt that when the mafia designed this pool their full intention was to have peace lynched.
This is another thing that I want to come back to later on in this post.
mutantdevle wrote:
After all, why wouldn’t we lynch peace? I’ll tell you why we shouldn’t: the mafia want us to.
Why we should: Peace is historically the weakest player of the three.
Why we really shouldn't: Will explain later in the post

Yes, which is why I later changed my mind. But at the time I thought peace was townier than shadow could ever be. Y'all seriously underestimate how valuable it is that peace can become psuedo-confirmed town. Contributing to the game is obviously helpful but means nothing if your reads are wrong. On the other hand, when there's 1 less player we have to worry about trying to town read it makes finding and lynching mafia significantly and statistically easier.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
So then there’s shadowsedge. Another strong and valuable player that we’d ideally want to keep around - further evidence the mafia wants us to lynch peace.
Another thing to come back to.
mutantdevle wrote:
With peace lynched the mafia would then be free seed doubt into shadow and I (assuming both town) later in the game to have us reconsidered for lynching. That’s not something they’d be able to do with peace considering how obviously townie he’d be. Alternatively, in the unlikely case that shadowsedge is mafia they could potentially use this pool to try and gain town credit.

So in short, from my perspective shadowsedge is the only person in the pool who has a chance of being mafia, albeit a chance I consider small. Currently, I think the only thing that would change my mind is if it becomes obvious that peace is actually scum and this is the mafia trying to get rid of him before he does too much damage to them.
Yeah champ? The chance of you and ShadowsEdge being Mafia is small? What made you come to such a conclusion, especially considering ShadowsEdge hasn't even posted yet before you posted?
I think not.

Pool composition. My conclusion on the pool composition being meme-y makes me believe it is unlikely that there is any mafia in the pool. You're more than welcome to disagree with the logic. It is, after all, a theory backed by no solid evidence. The shading of me you have surrounding your disagreement is completely unnecessary.

Crybaby wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
I had forgotten about this and it already makes me reconsider my stance. With both shadowsedge and peace looking so obviously townie I’m starting to think that perhaps the intention of this pool was to have me lynched.
What someone rolled before this life should have nothing to do with what people have rolled now. Don't pin this on something we can't even prove.

What someone rolled before this life matters when they declare it in this game and claim it's changed in a way that looks honest. Again, you're welcome to disagree with my conclusion. However, do you think ShadowsEdge is mafia? Because if you have no reason to believe that he is then you also have no reason to disagree with my conclusion even if you think my logic is flawed.

Crybaby wrote:

Onjit very well could have decided to leave because he was no longer town.

Okay. Do you believe this? If so, why? If not, then why do you feel the need to bring up something you don't even agree with in order to try and discredit my read?

Crybaby wrote:

Let me be 100% clear with y'all on something. The prime strategy for the Mafia to take would be to always place Town members on the chopping block on even days, because it guarantees that they have less of a chance of dying.

Incorrect. This is by no means a prime strategy. Doing this risks exposing the mafia members. Deciding what ratio of town to scum to put into the pool operates as a risk/reward system. There's no set way to do it, no set amount of scum to put in the pool that's optimal. Sure, always putting only town in the pool would be the prime strategy if the town were brain dead, but that simply isn't the case. Later on in this post you act like it's the intelligent thing to do that only experienced players would think of to put 1 or 2 scum in the pool but that simply isn't the case. Any half-decent scum would know that they should be nominating themselves.

Crybaby wrote:

Knowing this, it's very likely that all three players on the chopping block are town,

If you believe this, why do you criticise me for coming to this conclusion? Especially when you're clearly of the mindset that I'd think 3 town in the scum pool is the optimal way for the scum to play. This isn't actually what I think, but the fact that you believed it was calls into question why you didn't then think that this could be my reason for thinking that all the people in the pool are town.

Crybaby wrote:

Mutant started out today immediately playing the bus game.

By making it explicitly clear that I think everyone in the pool is town but that I still have to vote for one of them?

Crybaby wrote:

He has made very few arguments for why he thinks any one of the particular candidates are townie.

Just to re-emphasise, why would you not assume this?:

Crybaby wrote:

Mutant are very experienced Mafia players. They would know the optimal strategy to take in this game as a Mafia member.

Crybaby wrote:

The prime strategy for the Mafia to take would be to always place Town members on the chopping block on even days

Crybaby wrote:

it isn't fair to just write off ShadowsEdge as town solely because of this.

It isn't fair on who? Why am I not allowed to form a read based on something that very clearly implicates Shadow as town, do you expect me to just ignore it?

Crybaby wrote:

Mutant, while I would certainly like to believe that you aren't Mafia,

This isn't the impression I get from the way you've analysed my posts.

Also, could you explain to me why this:

TaskManager wrote:

I believe 1T2S pool is very unlikely

Is a reasonable thing to say without an explanation where you don't feel the need to ask for one, but this:

mutantdevle wrote:

in the unlikely case that shadowsedge is mafia

Is unacceptable without elaboration and requires an explanation as to why it's unlikely.

In both instances, we are simply giving theories about what we personally believe is or isn't likely yet only one of them bothers you.

Y'see, what you've just done is you've gone through my posts and over-criticised every aspect of them you could find. You did this intentionally and with a greater level of aggression than what you usually display in mafia and I want to know why. What was the motivation behind your post? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you've formed any reads based on your close analysis of my post which begs the question, what was the point? You hint towards thinking that both I and Shadow could be scum but you don't commit to it. Instead, your analysis of my post aims to discredit almost everything I had to say and shade me along the way. In the process, you establish principles that you then don't stick to. You then lay out several possibilities as to what could be the case but you don't really give your opinion on which you think it is (if your criticisms of me are anything to go by then it would appear that you don't think people should be making any conclusions on these theories at all).

Basically, what I'm trying to ask is: why should I, or anyone else for that matter, not scum read you for this post by you when your aim was seemingly not to form your own reads but rather discredit mine?

I can't believe I just spent an hour and a half responding to you when I could have been in bed by now.

mutantdevle · 2019-11-05 01:21:24

peace wrote:

for day 3 i woudl look back into the poeple who voted kirbykareem esp kira hammering so quickly a newbie who doesnt have expeirence in defending themselves

I don't really think there's anything useful we could get from the kirbykareem wagon. The difference between town policy lynching and opportunistic scum is almost indistinguishable and I don't think anybody here would be capable of making conclusions on it that would yield better than just randomly guessing.

TaskManager

Slabdrill · 2019-11-05 02:50:35

I should probably say something huh
but as i said last game i'm bad at analysis

i disagree that the mafia pool is memey; i think it was chosen specifically to have peace as lynchbait (as the other two players are strong)
what that actually means though, i'm not too sure? i think mutant's right about it being 3t0s and it just existing to put suspicion on the others, though 2t1s seems totally reasonable (really i just think peace is most likely town considering the pool)

Minimania · 2019-11-05 03:19:34

mutantdevle wrote:

Crybaby, what's with your needless aggressive and nitpicky post?

You are 1 of 3 people on the chopping block today. I do not trust you and expect that none of the rest of the town does either. That being said, since you are one of the most competent players here, alongside being on the chopping block, I'm going to be reading every single word you say and dissecting it. I'm not going to let you get away with writing long **** posts and expecting them to make you look townie anymore, not like you've done in some previous games.

mutantdevle wrote:

I expected peace to be in the lynch pool because it's the meme-y thing to do. It's basically a free misslynch for the mafia.
I expected myself to be in the lynch pool because, again, it's a meme-y thing to do. Furthermore, putting a player who is unlikely to be lynched in the lynch pool focusses the lynch onto the other 2 players.
I expected us both to be in the lynch pool because, yet again, that's the meme thing to do. This forum is inherently meme-y. Wouldn't it be funny if the player people consider to be the strongest is in the same pool as the player who is considered to be the weakest?

When you put it like this, it's like you didn't even think about the selections. Assuming you, Shadow, and Peace are town, then the Mafia would sect you three deliberately. There is a very clear difference between the way you all play. The natural thing to do is to lynch Peace because he is the least valuable player (as again, you and Shadow both already pointed out). This is obvious. This is something everyone in the room is thinking. It's too obvious. The point of something like this is to make people second-guess themselves, and to lynch either you or Shadow instead, clearly more valuable players. This is all assuming that all three of you are town, which as I've said before, is possible, but is not the only possibility.

mutantdevle wrote:

As I clearly stated, I had been thinking on the idea that myself and peace would be in the starting pool before the day even started. Why then is it so hard to believe that I'd come to this conclusion as quickly as I did?

So, what you're saying is, because you thought the Mafia would meme around and decide to specifically pick you and Peace and put you two as the only candidates for today, that that instantly clears you and Peace of all charges of being Mafia for today? Absolutely not. You're smarter than that, Mutant.

mutantdevle wrote:

In fact, why do you even think it's so hard to come to instant conclusions, is that something you don't consider possible?

I never said that it was hard to come to instant conclusions. It's especially likely for newer players to come to instant conclusions based off of singular pieces of evidence. You are not a new or inexperienced player at all, nor do you have any evidence to suggest that they were even meming around when selecting you and Peace to begin with.

mutantdevle wrote:

My logic behind believing that peace and I would be in the pool together relies on the basis that the mafia are memeing. Aka they're not taking the pool too seriously. Hence, that naturally extends to the third candidate making it more likely that the third candidate is also town.

So I guess what I said earlier is true.

There is no evidence to suggest that the Mafia are making around, and I've already described some tangible benefits for the Mafia that could explain exactly why they chose who they did. Not only did I do this in this post, but also my earlier superpost.

mutantdevle wrote:

peace only even ends up in the lynch pool when he is town. As mafia, peace would be incredibly obvious. He'd be lynched very quickly if put into the pool. Then, forcing town to lynch peace on a day where we have full control of the lynch is obviously better for the mafia than wasting him in a pool lynch. For this reason, peace simply being in the pool made me conclude he was town. If you have any reason to believe scum would put scum!peace in the lynch pool then I'd love to hear it.

I will describe to you again why I think Peace is not 100% in the clear: His teammates. Peace's teammates are guaranteed already well aware the kind of player Peace is (considering Kareem is confirmed not to be scum, anyway), and may possibly have convinced Peace to take up this plan, figuring that the town might second-guess themselves and choose to lynch you or Shadow.

Even if Peace was a townie, this does not clear you or Shadow. Do not tie yourself to him. You and him are two entirely separate players.

mutantdevle wrote:

Was it? Please point out where I lied.

The part where you said it was going to take a lot of convincing for you to vote for peace. Turns out, it really did not take a lot of convincing.

mutantdevle wrote:

The fact that you're trying to frame this as a lie is incredibly manipulative. Furthermore, you were given full context as to why my mind changed. I didn't recall Onjit's post when making my previous conclusion. When I realised this information, it affected my conclusion. What part of that do you have difficulty with?

It would be, it it weren't actually a lie. You didn't even need anybody else to tell you anything, you just convinced yourself like 1 post later.

mutantdevle wrote:

Okay, what's your point? This is a fact that I'm very aware of and has no impact on anything I have said.

To point out that we don't have the same viewpoint as you, so if you want us to believe you, then you better explain why you come to the conclusions you do, rather than just saying the conclusions you have without any explanation. For example, you claimed that you and Peace were cleared. Why? Because you believe the Mafia to be making a meme, and don't take the nominations seriously (an explanation you had to give after the fact.) Of course, there is no evidence to even back up your claim, but that's besides the point.

mutantdevle wrote:

As do you.

I can explain my conclusions with evidence. Where is yours?

mutantdevle wrote:

Do you disagree that I'm a player that's generally considered harder to lynch? What do you think would be the reason that mafia would put me in the pool assuming I am town? I find it hard to believe that you'd come to a conclusion that doesn't match mine.

1. Yes. You are not invincible to being lynched, Mutant. People will not blindly follow you like they did in previous games. At least, I won't, and I'm certainly not going to let others. If you want to convince me of something, give me fact based evidence, and I'll agree.
2. I've already explained why. I've given multiple reasons why they would put town you with the others. People are going to be inclined to vote for Peace if you don't take alignment into account. Considering alignment possibilities, people can second-guess their decision to vote for Peace and instead opt to vote for either you or Shadow, instead. This is not something I say is happening right now, nor am I saying that it's 100% the truth, but it certainly is a strategy that could work if followed up with some kind of exposition. Another reason that I haven't yet given is that they could possibly be testing the waters. That is to say, they could be trying to gauge the town's reaction. Perhaps they want to see if people really will second-guess themselves, or possibly see how and what they can get away with for the next nomination stage.
3. Think about it from a perspective that isn't a town member's, then. Imagine you were a Mafia member. How would making the decision to put an alternative to town!you, Shadow, and Peace benefit the Mafia, given different alignments for each person? It is in this way that I think, and how I've come to the conclusions that I have. Consider, objectively, the pros and cons of the decision. Do not just assume that there are none, just because the decision confuses you.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Peace is likely to be lynched in any pool regardless of his alignment.
- Peace is very obvious when he is mafia.
- Putting peace in the scum pool as mafia almost guarantees his lynch.
- Even if the mafia wanted to get rid of scum!peace, they'd prefer that he be lynched when we can choose anyone rather than just handing him over when they get to choose who the lynch candidates are.
- Any half-decent mafia would realise this.

Point 1: Everyone knows how likely Peace is to get thrown under the bus, regardless of his alignment. We've already pretty much satisfied anyone's desire to policy lynch by policy lynching Kareem on day 1. The decision to put Peace as a nominee on night 2 alongside you and Shadow was deliberate. They could have chose me, or anyone else who was more experienced for that matter, but instead they selected Peace, and you seem to think that this was just something they did for ****'s and giggles?
Point 2: All Peace has done today is claim that I was suspicious for fighting for a Kareem lynch, and say Ele is suspicious for wooting all of my posts. After I reassured him that the only motivation was to policy lynch him, and after he (presumably) read my super post, he immediately believed(?) everything that I said and instantaneously voted to lynch you, without giving any of my posts another second thought. Sounds like he's hopping beliefs to me.
Point 3 and 4: Given, and I'm not saying that Peace is 100% a member of the Mafia. But don't 100% assume that Peace is 100% town, either. This is (likely) what the Mafia want you to think.

mutantdevle wrote:

You clearly do not understand what lynch bait means. peace is lynch bait because people naturally want to lynch him, all the mafia then have to do is put him forward. The reason you just gave for why myself and shadow are supposedly 'lynch bait' is actually wifom. All it means is that you can't rule us out as being mafia based on pool composition alone.

Conceded.

mutantdevle wrote:

Y'all seriously underestimate how valuable it is that peace can become psuedo-confirmed town.

Yeah, that would be valuable, if people don't end up lynching Peace today. Even if it is valuable, we can't just say Peace is town just because it is. Peace being town would be a useful explanation to why certain decisions are being made the way they are, but that certainly doesn't mean he 100% is town.

mutantdevle wrote:

Contributing to the game is obviously helpful but means nothing if your reads are wrong.

Yet another reason the Mafia should theoretically want to leave Peace out of the first nominations, and yet they haven't.

mutantdevle wrote:

On the other hand, when there's 1 less player we have to worry about trying to town read it makes finding and lynching mafia significantly and statistically easier.

This would be way easier to do if Peace were confirmed townie, but, again, none of you are confirmed town, so, yeah.

mutantdevle wrote:

Pool composition. My conclusion on the pool composition being meme-y makes me believe it is unlikely that there is any mafia in the pool. You're more than welcome to disagree with the logic. It is, after all, a theory backed by no solid evidence.

So even you say it. Alrighty, then, I don't agree.

mutantdevle wrote:

What someone rolled before this life matters when they declare it in this game and claim it's changed in a way that looks honest. Again, you're welcome to disagree with my conclusion. However, do you think ShadowsEdge is mafia? Because if you have no reason to believe that he is then you also have no reason to disagree with my conclusion even if you think my logic is flawed.

I don't know whether he is or not, but I do not want people to give him the benefit of the doubt just because of something Onjit said, and I don't want you to do that either. I want you all to think for yourselves. Let Shadow build up his own rapport.

mutantdevle wrote:

Okay. Do you believe this? If so, why? If not, then why do you feel the need to bring up something you don't even agree with in order to try and discredit my read?

I do believe this, actually. Personally, I wouldn't put it past Onjit to lie about it if he turned Mafia. Asking for a replacement is a strategy that was already tried, that one game I was SK. It worked for Slabdrill because I did not suspect him, even though it didn't matter in the end.

mutantdevle wrote:

Incorrect. This is by no means a prime strategy. Doing this risks exposing the mafia members.

Unless the Mafia members... draw no special attention to themselves? You think they'd go around waving big signs saying "hey look, we aren't a part of the pool, so vote for us!

But really, think about it. Every even numbered day, the Mafia vote for three candidates. Assuming all candidates are town, this means that the Mafia will be guaranteed 3 kills every day, whereas on odd-numbered days, there is no guarantee that we'll hit a Mafia member at all. In fact, the nominees from the round prior are still up to question, too. The mere act of nominating someone puts then under a spotlight and forces the town to look at that person. If someone survives, then that person is still going to be looked at even when they aren't a nominee anymore. Even if Peace is lynched today, this does not clear you or Shadow at all.

If we mislynch today, then it is likely because all three nominees were town. If we mislynch tomorrow, then we've just given the Mafia an extra kill. Lynches on odd-numbered days are really important, because they are likely the only days where we can lynch a Mafia member. Assuming the Mafia only nominates town members, and replaces lynched nominees with new town members every even-numbered day, this means that the Mafia are getting a free kill every other day, while also not giving the town much information at all.

mutantdevle wrote:

Deciding what ratio of town to scum to put into the pool operates as a risk/reward system. There's no set way to do it, no set amount of scum to put in the pool that's optimal. Sure, always putting only town in the pool would be the prime strategy if the town were brain dead, but that simply isn't the case. Later on in this post you act like it's the intelligent thing to do that only experienced players would think of to put 1 or 2 scum in the pool but that simply isn't the case. Any half-decent scum would know that they should be nominating themselves.

The optimal amount of scum to nominate is 0, because there is 0% chance scum will flip. Simple as that.

mutantdevle wrote:

If you believe this, why do you criticise me for coming to this conclusion? Especially when you're clearly of the mindset that I'd think 3 town in the scum pool is the optimal way for the scum to play. This isn't actually what I think, but the fact that you believed it was calls into question why you didn't then think that this could be my reason for thinking that all the people in the pool are town.

Mutant, I'm actually disappointed in you for not coming to this conclusion. I am of the mindset that 3 town in the nominees is the optimal way for scum to play. This ensures that no scum are going to die that night. In two days from now, it will be easy for them to place you and Shadow in the pool again, this time picking a different townie member in replacement for Peace (assuming he gets lynched tonight.) Hopefully now that they've read this, they decide to put one of their own next time.

mutantdevle wrote:

By making it explicitly clear that I think everyone in the pool is town but that I still have to vote for one of them?

Fair, but your reasons for clearing them are certainly not sound. They have no evidence behind them.

mutantdevle wrote:

It isn't fair on who? Why am I not allowed to form a read based on something that very clearly implicates Shadow as town, do you expect me to just ignore it?

I do not expect you to ignore it, but I certainly hope you don't plan on basing your entire read on Shadow on something he didn't even post. Giving him the benefit of the doubt opens him up to being town-cleared, something that should not even be possible in this game. This is unfair for Mafia assuming town!Shadow and unfair for the town assuming scum!Shadow, because nobody is supposed to be cleared.

mutantdevle wrote:

This isn't the impression I get from the way you've analysed my posts.

You're the only one who has given that much to work off of.

mutantdevle wrote:

Also, could you explain to me why this:
TaskManager wrote:
I believe 1T2S pool is very unlikely
Is a reasonable thing to say without an explanation where you don't feel the need to ask for one, but this:
mutantdevle wrote:
in the unlikely case that shadowsedge is mafia
Is unacceptable without elaboration and requires an explanation as to why it's unlikely.
In both instances, we are simply giving theories about what we personally believe is or isn't likely yet only one of them bothers you.

TaskManager's theory isn't based off of a hunch. The Mafia giving the town a 66% chance to lynch one of their own is not optimal, no matter how you flavor it.

mutantdevle wrote:

Y'see, what you've just done is you've gone through my posts and over-criticised every aspect of them you could find

Yep, because you're on the chopping block, and I don't trust a single person on the chopping block, so if I hope to make the right decision and influence others to making the right decision, I damn better. I would do the same to Shadow and Peace too if they had actually given me something to work with.

mutantdevle wrote:

You did this intentionally and with a greater level of aggression than what you usually display in mafia and I want to know why.

If the above answer doesn't satisfy you, then I'd like to also remind you that I'm almost always not Town, and therefore usually have teammates that I can rely on.

mutantdevle wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you've formed any reads based on your close analysis of my post

I haven't, yet.

mutantdevle wrote:

What was the motivation behind your post?

mutantdevle wrote:

what was the point?

To give people my own thoughts, and to try to steer them into the direction of thinking for thenselves.

mutantdevle wrote:

You hint towards thinking that both I and Shadow could be scum but you don't commit to it.

Yeah, I hint at the possibility with what's given, but I'm not confident enough to pin Mafia on either one of you, given the chances that none of you are, so why would I?

mutantdevle wrote:

Instead, your analysis of my post aims to discredit almost everything I had to say and shade me along the way.

Okay, if you haven't noticed, you're one of the three being nominated for a lynch right now, so what you say kind of really matters. I have no qualms with investigating your logic to ensure the right decision is made and I hope none of the rest of the town has a problem with that either.

mutantdevle wrote:

In the process, you establish principles that you then don't stick to.

What are those principles? That the most likely scenario is that all three of you are town? I certainly have not given up that possibility at any point. If not, then I'd like to hear your explanation on this.

mutantdevle wrote:

You then lay out several possibilities as to what could be the case but you don't really give your opinion on which you think it is (if your criticisms of me are anything to go by then it would appear that you don't think people should be making any conclusions on these theories at all).

The theories are just that: theories. I want people to think for themselves with what I have given. I don't want to tell people how to think and what decisions to make. I want them to make their own conclusions, and possibly catch and fix any problems with my own. And, your thinking that I am targeting you is right, but not for the right reason. You are simply the only person here with any motivations to speak of. Neither Shadow nor peace have come up with anything worth this kind of analysis, in my opinion. It is not because I think you are Mafia. If you disagree, and think that there is something in their posts that can be taken apart, then feel free.

mutantdevle wrote:

Basically, what I'm trying to ask is: why should I, or anyone else for that matter, not scum read you for this post by you when your aim was seemingly not to form your own reads but rather discredit mine?

1. If I was a scum, I would not be trying nearly as hard to solve this game.
2. I am behaving much differently than I ever have in any games previous to this, as you suggest. I have been town in a few games. I was always killed within the first few days. The last game I was town, I was killed for doing nothing but **** on night 1, something I've never done before at all. The time before that, I was only trying to not draw so much attention to myself, and even said that I was okay with dying if it gave the town more information. That did not work out. So, I'm trying out this new thing. I hope you consider it as constructive as I do.
3. If I was scum, then why am I offering what I think the most optimal scum strategies for this gametype so publicly? I certainly would not share my strategies and thoughts this extensively considering how little anything I have posted on this night helps the Mafia in any way.
4. Because my posts intend to get people thinking, to get people talking, and hopefully to allow us to get more reads on other players, too.

mutantdevle wrote:

I can't believe I just spent an hour and a half responding to you when I could have been in bed by now.

Good night Prince Charming uwu

mutantdevle wrote:

I don't really think there's anything useful we could get from the kirbykareem wagon. The difference between town policy lynching and opportunistic scum is almost indistinguishable and I don't think anybody here would be capable of making conclusions on it that would yield better than just randomly guessing.

Unless you have more to say on the matter, I agree with you on this, more or less. Once more and more people start to be eliminated out of that particular pool of people, though, it might be worth it to take a look back on it just to be safe.

Minimania · 2019-11-05 03:20:49

Slabdrill wrote:

i disagree that the mafia pool is memey; i think it was chosen specifically to have peace as lynchbait (as the other two players are strong)
what that actually means though, i'm not too sure? i think mutant's right about it being 3t0s and it just existing to put suspicion on the others, though 2t1s seems totally reasonable (really i just think peace is most likely town considering the pool)

Thank you for posting something, and I agree.

Minimania · 2019-11-05 03:41:44

One more thing in response to

mutantdevle wrote:

Basically, what I'm trying to ask is: why should I, or anyone else for that matter, not scum read you for this post by you when your aim was seemingly not to form your own reads but rather discredit mine?

I'm not going to withhold information from the town even if it incriminated me.

Minimania · 2019-11-05 05:17:12

Elei if you could make a post that would be great

rat · 2019-11-05 05:20:40

hello i'm sorry

rat · 2019-11-05 05:23:02

i think maf put in peace as like.. "oh they will think we are putting peace in as a distraction and then will want to lynch devle or shadow" but that is stretching into wfifom tterritory. also after last game i am very hesitatnt to trust crybaby and he's giving me Bad vibed.. like 4/10 sus rating

rat · 2019-11-05 05:24:30

bad vibes* not bad vibed also ignore every other typo thanks

rat · 2019-11-05 05:30:27

also posting like 4 times in a row seems to be a trend so i am going to say that i literally don't know what to add besides like really intense conspiracies

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-05 06:34:38

Aight y'all sorry I got sidetracked with some stuff today, so I haven't gotten the time to post until now.

I'm not heavily involved in the argument, so I'll say my part. Crybaby's case is more solid in the way it was constructed. That's not to say that I believe everything Crybaby is saying is true, but I believe more of what Crybaby is saying as opposed to what Mutant is saying, because while some parts of both arguments are based on some level of flimsy arguments, I feel that Crybaby's is just more sound in general.

With that said, I'm not going to go into a point-analysis of Mutant's post, because I feel Crybaby's covers most of what I would have to say, so it would be pointless (Ironically) to make a completely separate post just to reiterate the same points.

I'm not opposed to the idea of speculating on what Crybaby's intentions are, but specifically for today, it should not be the priority. The lynch is locked between Mutant Peace and I, so speculating about Crybaby being scum won't do much except bring speculations into the next day, and ultimately would bring us into a situation where, because of all the speculating, neither side will drop their suspicions. Of course, the speculations on Mutant's part are fine, but there is no way to act on them until tomorrow, so it seems more like a way to draw away the attention from himself.

I want to make it clear that today should mainly focus on the candidates of the lynch. Of course, speculations else where can go on, but with no way to act on it, they would just be a means of starting large debacles, which, as I said before, ultimately lead to hardcore suspicions.

I realize the suspicions against all the candidates, including myself, being seen as possible scum. But I don't have heavy stances against or for either Mutant or Peace. The whole idea that Peace is wagon hopping, like Crybaby brought up, doesn't really provide much. I've pointed out in previous games that Peace just tends to follow what the popular opinion is. As for Mutant, though his reasoning is flimsy, and it is out of character for him, it isn't necessarily a scum tell. Others have used flimsy logic before as town (Most prominent example I can remember is Jawapa in Maf 31 where he used a bunch of BS logic to claim that Kira was the cop). I do have a slight lean against Mutant, and for Peace, mainly for the reasons mentioned previously, but nothing I would bet my life on yet.

I don't have a whole lot to say. I do realize I'm semi-sheeping Crybaby a lot here, but most of the points Crybaby makes are, like I said before, more solid. I'm gonna be heading off to sleep here soon, because I have school again in the morning, but I have a bit of time before I do go to sleep, although I doubt I'll make a post in that time.

peace · 2019-11-05 08:43:17

can someone give some TDLS on the long possts from crybaby an dmutant yesterday i readd the first post from crybaby then today mutants but skipped crybabys one cuastoo long its alos funny non ehas given some reads yet so im gonna do as first person based on what i think is scum ill take in acount D1 lynch

peace · 2019-11-05 09:01:26

1: Crybaby townleansish-nullish he has some townie posts he alos has some scummy posts btu im more fna of townleaning
2: ZeldaXD his only post he made sofar was a lynch on kareem wihtout explaination just blindly following i guess?
3: Kira hammering so quicky when there is 62 **** hours left of discussion?! scum
4: ShadowsEdge null for now i cant really see town ro scum here he tent to be a good scum player tho...
5: ILikeTofuuJoe please post more
7: Slabdrill townlean has made some good points
8: mutantdevle nullish-scumish i do not belive he is actually 100% scum but eventhoguth he makes towny posts he coudl very well be maf
9: Peace tf do you think xD
10: eleizibeth abit more townlean then crybaby but both could be scum cause ele wooting crybab's posts
11: Taskmanager yeah politelync time? why? i see no **** logic behind policelynching sure its day 1 but cmon we have 62 **** horus to discuss yet we quick lyah an newbie who also is innonent

Dead players:
KirbyKareem. 100% town
[6] KirbyKareem: ShadowsEdge, Taskmanager, Crybaby, ZeldaXD, eleizibeth, Kira too quickly hamered
[1] Taskmanager: KirbyKareem istill dont get this blidn vote but ok

Norwee · 2019-11-05 10:24:50

Prodded ILikeTofuuJoe, Kira and ZeldaXD for inaxtivity.

Minimania · 2019-11-05 11:11:52

eleizibeth wrote:

i think maf put in peace as like.. "oh they will think we are putting peace in as a distraction and then will want to lynch devle or shadow" but that is stretching into wfifom tterritory.

This was in my post

eleizibeth wrote:

also after last game i am very hesitatnt to trust crybaby

Fair, I guess.

eleizibeth wrote:

and he's giving me Bad vibed..

Don't be scared friendo ?

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I'm not opposed to the idea of speculating on what Crybaby's intentions are, but specifically for today, it should not be the priority. The lynch is locked between Mutant Peace and I, so speculating about Crybaby being scum won't do much except bring speculations into the next day, and ultimately would bring us into a situation where, because of all the speculating, neither side will drop their suspicions.

I am equally down for this.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Of course, the speculations on Mutant's part are fine, but there is no way to act on them until tomorrow, so it seems more like a way to draw away the attention from himself.

This could be true, but Mutant isn't in the wrong for defending himself. I am being pretty aggressive.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

The whole idea that Peace is wagon hopping, like Crybaby brought up, doesn't really provide much. I've pointed out in previous games that Peace just tends to follow what the popular opinion is. As for Mutant, though his reasoning is flimsy, and it is out of character for him, it isn't necessarily a scum tell.

My argument against peace was made for argument's sake. I don't think that it actually makes Peace scum. I brought it up to provide possible evidence for scum!Peace to be the case, simply to prove that Peace is not confirmed to be a townie.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I do have a slight lean against Mutant, and for Peace, mainly for the reasons mentioned previously, but nothing I would bet my life on yet.

Could you explain why you have a lean against Mutant? Is it because he was defending himself against me with about as much aggression as I gave him (which is fair) or is there more you haven't said? And, is the lean for Peace because of any particular evidence you've acclimated, or is it because of a lack of evidence condemning Peace?

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I don't have a whole lot to say. I do realize I'm semi-sheeping Crybaby a lot here, but most of the points Crybaby makes are, like I said before, more solid.

Thanks, but I hope you don't plan on tying yourself in with me, because just because you agree with what I said doesn't mean I suspect you any less than Mutant, yet.

peace wrote:

1: Crybaby townleansish-nullish he has some townie posts he alos has some scummy posts btu im more fna of townleaning

Could you explain which posts you feel are scummy and which ones are townie, and why you feel like the townie posts outweigh the scummy ones, in your opinion?

peace wrote:

7: Slabdrill townlean has made some good points

The only points he made were things I already said. In addition, just making good points is not a town-tell. You can make very good arguments and still be scum.

peace wrote:

8: mutantdevle nullish-scumish i do not belive he is actually 100% scum but eventhoguth he makes towny posts he coudl very well be maf

Your scum-tell on Mutant has even less context than Shadow's. Why do you think Mutant is scum? Is it one of his particular posts? If so, which one?

peace wrote:

10: eleizibeth abit more townlean then crybaby but both could be scum cause ele wooting crybab's posts

Before Elei first posted, I had to beg her twice to make a post before she finally caved in. All she did was woot my posts. Her recent posts have had nothing of any real substance. She made a small mention to something I made in a previous post, something Slabdrill also did, and then said that she had scum feelings about me simply for getting bad vibes from me and being unable to trust me since last game. Aside from this, there was really nothing else to say about Elei other than being on the wagon against KirbyKareem and wooting some of my posts arguing against him. So, all of this begs the question: Why are you so sure that Eleizibeth is townie?

peace wrote:

11: Taskmanager yeah politelync time? why? i see no **** logic behind policelynching sure its day 1 but cmon we have 62 **** horus to discuss yet we quick lyah an newbie who also is innonent

I fought pretty dang hard to get KirbyKareem policy-lynched on Day 1 on the principle that his antics would cause trouble for the town later on in the game. Yet, you scum-read TaskManager for wanting to policy lynch? What about the rest of the people on that wagon against Kareem? You know Elei was on that wagon, too, right? Where is the consistency?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Prodded ILikeTofuuJoe, Kira and ZeldaXD for inaxtivity.

I called that ****. TofuuJoe can't be active for ****, he should have never joined.

ZeldaXD, I hope you've been inactive recently only because yesterday was your birthday. I hope you make a post soon.

Kira · 2019-11-05 12:05:21

!vote peace

ZeldaXD · 2019-11-05 14:38:39

I believe based on the posts I have read that the pool is all town and mafia have done it intentionally to sow discord and make townies fight eachother while they sit back and just add wood to the fire. If this is the case, then peace is the best option for a lynch. We should not underestimate Shadows though.

rat

ILikeTofuuJoe · 2019-11-05 15:50:02

peace wrote:

1: Crybaby townleansish-nullish he has some townie posts he alos has some scummy posts btu im more fna of townleaning
2: ZeldaXD his only post he made sofar was a lynch on kareem wihtout explaination just blindly following i guess?
3: Kira hammering so quicky when there is 62 **** hours left of discussion?! scum
4: ShadowsEdge null for now i cant really see town ro scum here he tent to be a good scum player tho...
5: ILikeTofuuJoe please post more
7: Slabdrill townlean has made some good points
8: mutantdevle nullish-scumish i do not belive he is actually 100% scum but eventhoguth he makes towny posts he coudl very well be maf
9: Peace tf do you think xD
10: eleizibeth abit more townlean then crybaby but both could be scum cause ele wooting crybab's posts
11: Taskmanager yeah politelync time? why? i see no **** logic behind policelynching sure its day 1 but cmon we have 62 **** horus to discuss yet we quick lyah an newbie who also is innonent
Dead players:
KirbyKareem. 100% town
[6] KirbyKareem: ShadowsEdge, Taskmanager, Crybaby, ZeldaXD, eleizibeth, Kira too quickly hamered
[1] Taskmanager: KirbyKareem istill dont get this blidn vote but ok

1. Is it because Crybaby said that you are not guranteed to be town?

3. Quickhammering does not count as a reason for scumreading someone. Please give an actual reason.

5. I get it.

7. Like Crybaby said, making good points doesn't mean someone is semi-confirmed town, especially when the point was already made.

8. What do you think Mutantdevle is scumlean?

9. What the **** does wooting a post even have anything to do with their alignment? If people always considered that, everyone would be wooting the good posts.

10. Kirbykareem is already dead. What you are saying is basically every person that voted for kirbykareem has a higher chance to be scum than others? Where did this logic come from? Explain.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-11-05 16:00:33

Aight I'm up, but I got school soon so I'm just making this for now.

Crybaby wrote:

Could you explain why you have a lean against Mutant? Is it because he was defending himself against me with about as much aggression as I gave him (which is fair) or is there more you haven't said? And, is the lean for Peace because of any particular evidence you've acclimated, or is it because of a lack of evidence condemning Peace?

The lean against mutant is because of his lack of a care to the way he went about justifying why he believed everyone in the list was Town. He went quickly to concluding that Peace is town (Although, I can't blame him much for this, because Peace does reveal his alignment easily), and he went quickly to concluding that I am town. I understand the reasonings on both ends, but they were assumptions made at the beginning of the game, that rely on specific conditions, more specifically for mine.

The part about it that strikes me as odd, though, is that if Mutant were mafia, being part of the nomination, he would want to convince everyone why someone like Me or Peace is mafia, to deter the vote away from himself. I won't count out the possibility, though, because Mutant is more than capable of breaking expectations.

Because of that, combined with the fact that I just simply don't want to start trusting Mutant so early on, that's why I have Mutant under a slight scum lean.

As for the lean on Peace, it's only a lean, because I don't have particular evidence for it, and I will say definitively that I don't. The only sort of evidence is that Peace just seems to be trying to follow the majority again, and we know from last game that Peace is capable of making himself look suspicious even as town. So, it is more in response of a lack of evidence against Peace.

Crybaby wrote:

Thanks, but I hope you don't plan on tying yourself in with me, because just because you agree with what I said doesn't mean I suspect you any less than Mutant, yet.

I am fully aware of that. I made that part because I realized a lot of that post was in correlation to things you've said. And I wanted to address that I was aware of it, and that it wasn't just me trying to copy the opinion of another.

I gotta head out to school now, but I wanted to address the questions and statements Crybaby directed towards me.

Minimania

Norwee · 2019-11-05 16:08:32

This next pagetop is

Norwee · 2019-11-05 16:08:54

mine!

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#76 2019-11-05 00:29:57

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#99 2019-11-05 16:08:32

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#100 2019-11-05 16:08:54

Re: Mafia 35 game thread [MAFIA WINS] (GAME OVER)

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