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#201 2019-09-19 21:09:46

NoNK
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Joined: 2019-07-13
Posts: 420

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

I would joke about late september but I'm just so tired...

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#202 2019-09-20 04:58:38

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,894

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

NoNK wrote:

I would joke about late september but I'm just so tired...

you are speaking for all of us

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#203 2019-09-24 13:13:21

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 125

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

Alright—last week I wrapped up the remaining work that was left to do on the zones system, such as the limited-edit functionality, making edit zones visible to players, etc.

But I didn't end up making a ton of progress on EEU other than that, primarily because I had some important work to get done relating to officially starting my game development studio with Alex (Kentiya) as an LLC. So, "Light Wolf Studios LLC" is now officially a thing, and while that doesn't have a direct impact on everything to do with EE/EEU, it's an important step for us. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile

This week, I'm of course focusing more on EEU, and working on wrapping up some of the final things before we start the closed beta process. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#204 2019-09-24 15:29:20

PiotrGrochowski
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From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

Is correct sRGB averaging for the minimap colors confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#205 2019-09-24 15:54:52

peace
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From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,368

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

lookign forward to see soem cool games form you on kong //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool


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thanks hg for making this much better

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#206 2019-09-24 21:48:58, last edited by ByteArray (2019-09-24 23:54:55)

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 125

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

Is correct sRGB averaging for the minimap colors confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?

I'm actually not quite sure. I did implement gamma correct averaging, but a lot of the colors end up more "washed out" looking. We'll definitely come to a decision on that soon though.


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#207 2019-09-25 03:17:54

XxAtillaxX
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From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,990

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

yes code some pretty pixels


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#208 2019-09-25 06:12:41

PiotrGrochowski
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From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

Is arbitrary zoom (at least 6 significant digits of precision, for example 66.6667%) confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#209 2019-09-25 12:51:57

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,877
Website

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

Is arbitrary zoom (at least 6 significant digits of precision, for example 66.6667%) confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?

Are there any particular reasons you'd want this? If you resize the game so that blocks are a fractional number of pixels across then it probably won't look very good.

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#210 2019-09-25 12:58:29, last edited by PiotrGrochowski (2019-09-25 13:00:08)

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

LukeM wrote:
PiotrGrochowski wrote:

Is arbitrary zoom (at least 6 significant digits of precision, for example 66.6667%) confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?

Are there any particular reasons you'd want this? If you resize the game so that blocks are a fractional number of pixels across then it probably won't look very good.

Didn't you previously mention that the rendering engine will support fractional block positioning? If it's done correctly there won't be artifacts.

Arbitrary zoom will of course allow EEU to be device-independent, making it possible to have the same relative area for blocks and the same viewing range by default regardless of the window size; the zoom level can be adjusted precisely.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#211 2019-09-25 13:13:19

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 125

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:
LukeM wrote:
PiotrGrochowski wrote:

Is arbitrary zoom (at least 6 significant digits of precision, for example 66.6667%) confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?

Are there any particular reasons you'd want this? If you resize the game so that blocks are a fractional number of pixels across then it probably won't look very good.

Didn't you previously mention that the rendering engine will support fractional block positioning? If it's done correctly there won't be artifacts.

Arbitrary zoom will of course allow EEU to be device-independent, making it possible to have the same relative area for blocks and the same viewing range by default regardless of the window size; the zoom level can be adjusted precisely.

I think he probably misunderstood your question—the game does currently scale to fit, showing the same number of blocks and viewing range regardless of window size. So if you really want to, you can make the game 640x360 to make the blocks 16x16px (66.6667% scale). But I doubt you'd really want to, considering that the graphics aren't designed for that size and it makes them look a little weird. 16px blocks are also ridiculously tiny once you get away from EE, and it's something that always stands out to me any time I go back to EE to check something. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

As for zooming as in changing your view range, there's the potential for that later on as an editing tool or something, but if we do that it'll probably be later into the open beta (public release).


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#212 2019-09-25 14:14:18

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

ByteArray wrote:
PiotrGrochowski wrote:
LukeM wrote:
PiotrGrochowski wrote:

Is arbitrary zoom (at least 6 significant digits of precision, for example 66.6667%) confirmed to appear in the EEU closed beta?

Are there any particular reasons you'd want this? If you resize the game so that blocks are a fractional number of pixels across then it probably won't look very good.

Didn't you previously mention that the rendering engine will support fractional block positioning? If it's done correctly there won't be artifacts.

Arbitrary zoom will of course allow EEU to be device-independent, making it possible to have the same relative area for blocks and the same viewing range by default regardless of the window size; the zoom level can be adjusted precisely.

I think he probably misunderstood your question—the game does currently scale to fit, showing the same number of blocks and viewing range regardless of window size. So if you really want to, you can make the game 640x360 to make the blocks 16x16px (66.6667% scale). But I doubt you'd really want to, considering that the graphics aren't designed for that size and it makes them look a little weird. 16px blocks are also ridiculously tiny once you get away from EE, and it's something that always stands out to me any time I go back to EE to check something. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

As for zooming as in changing your view range, there's the potential for that later on as an editing tool or something, but if we do that it'll probably be later into the open beta (public release).

"the graphics aren't designed for that size and it makes them look a little weird"
The purpose of a scalable interface is so that it is designed for every possible size. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with vector graphics, because even if most people liked 24×24 blocks, not everyone would like to play EEU in a very large window, let alone fullscreen. So you should definitely design EEU graphics for 16×16, or 12.8×12.8, or 14.613×14.613, etc. .

If the aspect ratio is changed (for example 640×360 is resized to 640×480) what would happen? Would the viewing area increase vertically or decrease horizontally?

The arbitrary zoom feature will be at least as precise as single precision floating point and will set the block size relative to the native size (probably 24×24 at the 1200×900 resolution, meaning at 640×480 the default would be 12.8×12.8, and the width of the block area is 512 assuming a default viewing range of 40 blocks, meaning 128 pixels of chat area at 640×480). It is for users who want to zoom in so that the blocks are larger with a smaller viewing area, or zoom out to see more blocks while still not being minimap-scale.

"The UI font in the game will not be able to be changed, since that's an important element of the game's design."
What do you mean "an important element of the game's design"? What exactly is so important that its design is valued over the user's ability to customize? I don't get it. I might have to hack the game.

I am so nervous about EEU, it might turn out to be a very terrible game that doesn't scale well and runs very slow on my PC.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#213 2019-09-25 14:56:55, last edited by LukeM (2019-09-25 14:58:59)

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,877
Website

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

"the graphics aren't designed for that size and it makes them look a little weird"
The purpose of a scalable interface is so that it is designed for every possible size. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with vector graphics, because even if most people liked 24×24 blocks, not everyone would like to play EEU in a very large window, let alone fullscreen. So you should definitely design EEU graphics for 16×16, or 12.8×12.8, or 14.613×14.613, etc. .
[...]
The arbitrary zoom feature will be at least as precise as single precision floating point and will set the block size relative to the native size (probably 24×24 at the 1200×900 resolution, meaning at 640×480 the default would be 12.8×12.8, and the width of the block area is 512 assuming a default viewing range of 40 blocks, meaning 128 pixels of chat area at 640×480). It is for users who want to zoom in so that the blocks are larger with a smaller viewing area, or zoom out to see more blocks while still not being minimap-scale.

Just to be clear, if you want to know whether we plan on supporting zooming to arbitrary percentages, the answer is currently no, as it would either make the game look blurry, or result in the 'shimmering' you get with EE where blocks change size as you move around.

If you want to know whether we plan on allowing you to zoom to precise fractions of the 24x24 block size, the answer is yes, we plan on allowing you to zoom to any integer block size you want. Blocks won't look quite as good as at 24x24 and above, as this is the minimum size they are designed to look their best at, but they will still look fairly good and will look crisp at sizes such as 16x16, and there shouldn't be any visual artefacts such as rounding errors or the shimmering we get in EE.

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

If the aspect ratio is changed (for example 640×360 is resized to 640×480) what would happen? Would the viewing area increase vertically or decrease horizontally?

To preserve consistency, we currently plan on rendering the game at the same aspect ratio so that no matter what screen size you have you can't see anything other people can't see, and other people can't see anything you can't see. This is important to making level design simple, so that people don't need to test their level at 20 different aspect ratios to make sure it's playable and there aren't any exploits. This means that in the case of an ultra wide monitor or something, the game won't completely fill the screen horizontally.

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

"The UI font in the game will not be able to be changed, since that's an important element of the game's design."
What do you mean "an important element of the game's design"? What exactly is so important that its design is valued over the user's ability to customize? I don't get it. I might have to hack the game.

I am so nervous about EEU, it might turn out to be a very terrible game that doesn't scale well and runs very slow on my PC.

We mean that the font is just as important of an element of the game's design as things like block textures and the logo. They are designed to work well together and fit in with the rest of the game, so they're not really things that can be switched out at random.

As for the game working well, the system we have for resizing makes sure that whatever size you're running the game at, it will look good.
Performance wise, currently the game performs well even on my eight year old phone, which is pretty impressive considering it struggles to load even some text based websites such as news sites, so we're confident that it should run smoothly on almost any semi-modern computer (less than a decade old or whatever).

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#214 2019-09-25 15:43:37

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,368

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

ByteArray wrote:

24px blocks are also ridiculously huge once you are new to EEU, and it's something that always stands out to me any time I go back to EEU to check something.

fixed that //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile


peace.png

thanks hg for making this much better

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#215 2019-09-25 18:32:39

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

LukeM wrote:
PiotrGrochowski wrote:

"the graphics aren't designed for that size and it makes them look a little weird"
The purpose of a scalable interface is so that it is designed for every possible size. I don't know what you're trying to achieve with vector graphics, because even if most people liked 24×24 blocks, not everyone would like to play EEU in a very large window, let alone fullscreen. So you should definitely design EEU graphics for 16×16, or 12.8×12.8, or 14.613×14.613, etc. .
[...]
The arbitrary zoom feature will be at least as precise as single precision floating point and will set the block size relative to the native size (probably 24×24 at the 1200×900 resolution, meaning at 640×480 the default would be 12.8×12.8, and the width of the block area is 512 assuming a default viewing range of 40 blocks, meaning 128 pixels of chat area at 640×480). It is for users who want to zoom in so that the blocks are larger with a smaller viewing area, or zoom out to see more blocks while still not being minimap-scale.

Just to be clear, if you want to know whether we plan on supporting zooming to arbitrary percentages, the answer is currently no, as it would either make the game look blurry, or result in the 'shimmering' you get with EE where blocks change size as you move around.

If you want to know whether we plan on allowing you to zoom to precise fractions of the 24x24 block size, the answer is yes, we plan on allowing you to zoom to any integer block size you want. Blocks won't look quite as good as at 24x24 and above, as this is the minimum size they are designed to look their best at, but they will still look fairly good and will look crisp at sizes such as 16x16, and there shouldn't be any visual artefacts such as rounding errors or the shimmering we get in EE.

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

If the aspect ratio is changed (for example 640×360 is resized to 640×480) what would happen? Would the viewing area increase vertically or decrease horizontally?

To preserve consistency, we currently plan on rendering the game at the same aspect ratio so that no matter what screen size you have you can't see anything other people can't see, and other people can't see anything you can't see. This is important to making level design simple, so that people don't need to test their level at 20 different aspect ratios to make sure it's playable and there aren't any exploits. This means that in the case of an ultra wide monitor or something, the game won't completely fill the screen horizontally.

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

"The UI font in the game will not be able to be changed, since that's an important element of the game's design."
What do you mean "an important element of the game's design"? What exactly is so important that its design is valued over the user's ability to customize? I don't get it. I might have to hack the game.

I am so nervous about EEU, it might turn out to be a very terrible game that doesn't scale well and runs very slow on my PC.

We mean that the font is just as important of an element of the game's design as things like block textures and the logo. They are designed to work well together and fit in with the rest of the game, so they're not really things that can be switched out at random.

As for the game working well, the system we have for resizing makes sure that whatever size you're running the game at, it will look good.
Performance wise, currently the game performs well even on my eight year old phone, which is pretty impressive considering it struggles to load even some text based websites such as news sites, so we're confident that it should run smoothly on almost any semi-modern computer (less than a decade old or whatever).

"we plan on allowing you to zoom to any integer block size you want"

"To preserve consistency, we currently plan on rendering the game at the same aspect ratio so that no matter what screen size you have you can't see anything other people can't see, and other people can't see anything you can't see. This is important to making level design simple, so that people don't need to test their level at 20 different aspect ratios to make sure it's playable and there aren't any exploits. This means that in the case of an ultra wide monitor or something, the game won't completely fill the screen horizontally."

So, what happens if an arena of width 960 pixels (24×24 blocks assuming 40 blocks per width) is resized to width 512 pixels, implying 12.8×12.8 blocks? That isn't an integer size. Do you snap the entire arena size to a multiple of 40 pixels (or whatever the default blocks per width is) horizontally, and similarly vertically? Doesn't rounding the zoom to an integer block size contradict with scalability and device-independency?

As for the different aspect ratios, perhaps you could keep the worlduniverse viewing area the same, but instead use the remaining vertical or horizontal space for some features such as chat, settings, blocks, etc. instead of leaving it completely unused. If I play at 640×480 size, I wouldn't want a total of 120 pixels of height blank throughout the whole user interface.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#216 2019-09-25 20:22:11

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,877
Website

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:
LukeM wrote:

"we plan on allowing you to zoom to any integer block size you want"

"To preserve consistency, we currently plan on rendering the game at the same aspect ratio so that no matter what screen size you have you can't see anything other people can't see, and other people can't see anything you can't see. This is important to making level design simple, so that people don't need to test their level at 20 different aspect ratios to make sure it's playable and there aren't any exploits. This means that in the case of an ultra wide monitor or something, the game won't completely fill the screen horizontally."

So, what happens if an arena of width 960 pixels (24×24 blocks assuming 40 blocks per width) is resized to width 512 pixels, implying 12.8×12.8 blocks? That isn't an integer size. Do you snap the entire arena size to a multiple of 40 pixels (or whatever the default blocks per width is) horizontally, and similarly vertically? Doesn't rounding the zoom to an integer block size contradict with scalability and device-independency?

As for the different aspect ratios, perhaps you could keep the worlduniverse viewing area the same, but instead use the remaining vertical or horizontal space for some features such as chat, settings, blocks, etc. instead of leaving it completely unused. If I play at 640×480 size, I wouldn't want a total of 120 pixels of height blank throughout the whole user interface.

Currently I don't think we've reached a decision on what exactly we should do in the first situation, but a couple of things we've discussed include:
1. Rounding down to 12 pixels per block, meaning that the game would be 480 pixels wide instead of 512, so there would be a thin 16 pixel border at each side.
2. Having a slight tolerance for different view distances, so if you're aligned to a block you'll always see the same number of blocks away, you'll just see slightly more or less of the last block. This would mean that the game could render at 13 pixels per block, meaning you'd see 4 extra pixels of each block at each side.
3. Something similar to your second point, where there could be panels on the sides that can be resized slightly to take up or make way for an extra few pixels.

These things will be something we'll experiment more with once we've started the Beta, so we should be able to get plenty of user feedback about what people prefer //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile

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#217 2019-09-27 21:50:09

NorwegianboyEE
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From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 2,045

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

What is this "EE" i keep hearing about?

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#218 2019-09-27 22:38:31

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,186

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

What is this "EE" i keep hearing about?

I heard they're making an AAA game that is going to be a breakthrough in game development
Really looking forward to it.


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#219 2019-09-30 19:14:36

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 125

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

So, last week I worked on the login UI, along with a bunch of smaller bugfixes, tweaks, and some new functionality (such as /pm). This week, we'll be wrapping up the remainder of the work that needs done to officially start the closed beta!

We expect to start sending out the first few batches of invitation emails shortly. //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#220 2019-09-30 19:17:29

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,368

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

ByteArray wrote:

We expect to start sending out the first few batches of invitation emails shortly.

*echos in my mind* *gets extremely hyped* ^%%^%$^%$&%$^%$^^%&^&%$^ F hell please i hoep i don get dispointed


peace.png

thanks hg for making this much better

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#221 2019-09-30 21:54:27

Charlie59876EE
Member
Joined: 2016-06-18
Posts: 132

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

peace wrote:
ByteArray wrote:

We expect to start sending out the first few batches of invitation emails shortly.

*echos in my mind* *gets extremely hyped* ^%%^%$^%$&%$^%$^^%&^&%$^ F hell please i hoep i don get dispointed

*Next year* We'll be releasing it finally today in closed beta!


When your energy refills...
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#222 2019-10-09 20:13:15

PiotrGrochowski
Member
From: Poland (born in 8 №v 2004)
Joined: 2016-04-27
Posts: 942

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

"The UI font in the game will not be able to be changed, since that's an important element of the game's design."
What do you mean "an important element of the game's design"? What exactly is so important that its design is valued over the user's ability to customize? I don't get it. I might have to hack the game.

In particular, what font is it? Either it is a font specifically, SPECIFICALLY designed for EEU that the development team created or hired someone to create it for EEU, or you should give users the right to use any of their own system fonts. If your development team made a font specifically for EEU and thought out every single detail to match the entire game and nothing else, what you are doing makes sense. If you choose a font made in, say, 1998 then its designer most likely wasn't thinking "There will be a multiplayer level editing platformer game with 24×24 sprites in early 2019 named Everybody Edits Universe, so I should make a font to match that!" and the user's system fonts are objectively equally good and usable in EEU.


I'm known as "haslo" in EE.

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#223 2019-10-17 05:43:19

ByteArray
Dev Team (Formerly TechnoWolf99)
From: United States
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 125

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!


— Joshua Stone (aka ByteArray), lead developer of Everybody Edits & EE Universe. —

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#224 2019-10-17 07:31:28

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,368

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

a new kong game ur making? //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/big_smile


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thanks hg for making this much better

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#225 2019-10-17 20:38:54, last edited by Trytu (2019-10-18 18:13:58)

Trytu
Member
From: Poland
Joined: 2017-12-10
Posts: 684

Re: ByteArray's weekly development vlogs!

i looked on the clip image thumbnail part (that third from left) and thought "oh yeah everybody edits in vr", but then i watched the actual video xD


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Thanks to Nikko99 for signature
https: //media.discordapp.net/attachments/402174325349941249/482121641745186816/KHiX2DEFewAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
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