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#501 2019-07-27 00:35:00

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Something worth noting: Crybaby and mutant have become super nervous now that I have put them on my sus list.

mutantdevle wrote:

At no point did you ever say that your arguments were 'the most likely case'. But even 'the most likely case' is just opinion.

Oh what did you expect? That those were definitive statements?

Someone explained the concept very well...

Dude... that's the whole damn point of the game... why are you playing mafia if you don't want to analyse people's posts to determine their motives? [...] You're not usually meant to be able to make definitive conclusions. Mafia is a game of guesswork and opinions, of hiding and finding motives.

(Source)


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#502 2019-07-27 00:37:17

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Case #5482: "Mutant is Mafia"

Argument 1: Pretending Crybaby does not want to go to Heaven https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 97#p756297
Crybaby volunteered for it before changing his mind

Argument 2: Mutant pushed for a Jawapa town vote, out of the blue, without explaining why. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 97#p756297
When called out for it, he defends jawapa with the help of whataboutism: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 31#p756331
When I criticize his analogy, he ignores it
He refuses to explain why twice, even when I explicitly asked twice https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 47#p756347
-> He did not have an explanation ready
--> He could not explain his motivations
---> external motivation factors might be at play here

Argument 3: Mutant's analysis on Onjit is ****.

mutantdevle wrote:

And finally, a summary of his links to jawapa:
- Obviously, voted jawapa into heaven.

- Jawapa could have voted himself into heaven as well. Scum can always community with eachother. Mafia won nothing by not having mrjawapa hammer. Mafia only increased the risk of Onjit being lynched next day.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Both jawapa and Onjit were fairly critical of processor. A specific point of criticism here is that Onjit wooted a post by jawapa that criticised processor of not contributing much - something Onjit is also guilty of.

- Does not rule out different factions. Even you have criticized me for not contributing much, your statement is hypocritical here.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Onjit has wooted a fair few of jawapa's posts which is evidence that he was agreeing with/backing up jawapa's points.

- Jawapa was considered town by many of us, including you. It's hypocritical to assume wooting means anything in this case.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Jawapa put Onjit in his null list. A common thing for mafia to do when they don't want to have to give an opinion on their teammate.

- Jawapa put Onjit in his "Mafia-lean" list, your statement is plain wrong! https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 52#p755752


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#503 2019-07-27 00:43:15

NoNK
Member
Joined: 2019-07-13
Posts: 577

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975 

IMPORTANT RULES UPDATE
PLEASE DON'T WOOT GAME RELATED POSTS IF YOU'RE IN HEAVEN OR HELL

4230.png?m=15630219754230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=15630219754230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975  4230.png?m=1563021975

You can still woot posts that are just funny jokes, objective information posted by the moderator (yay a town/mafia was sent to heaven/hell), that kind of stuff.

This is important because on judgement day there is no communication. Also dead mafia shouldn't have any communication period except in the mafia thread if they wish to keep talking there.

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#504 2019-07-27 00:45:22

Crybaby
Formerly minimania
From: Cant Count
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 5,629

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

Such as, um, say...
luring someone (say... Onjit) to hammer on him... so he can frame them as his teammate?

I never ruled this out as a possibility, in fact I said this may have been possible in an earlier post

Processor wrote:

Something worth noting: Crybaby and mutant have become super nervous now that I have put them on my sus list.

I'm not nervous. I'm a little peeved because of this:

Processor wrote:

I have not explained why I think you and Crybaby are sus yet.

Processor wrote:

Argument 1: Pretending Crybaby does not want to go to Heaven

If only you read the invisible text in this post several pages back, you'd know I want nothing to do with heaven, and me "volunteering for it" is me trying to lure Mafia members into trying to vote me in. I know Mutant read this because he quoted my post and didn't include the hidden text.

Processor wrote:

Argument 2: Mutant pushed for a Jawapa town vote, out of the blue, without explaining why.

So did Norboy a day prior, and yet you think Norboy is town.

Processor wrote:

He refuses to explain why twice, even when I explicitly asked twice

Hoooo boy you sure are on a roll

Processor wrote:

Jawapa could have voted himself into heaven as well.

So why do you suppose he didn't? A theory brought up multiple times by different people is that he's going for reverse psychology.

Processor wrote:

Jawapa put Onjit in his "Mafia-lean" list, your statement is plain wrong

Ah yes, his sus list is full of traps! Who would have thought a Mafia goon would fill his sus list with traps?


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#505 2019-07-27 00:51:28

Crybaby
Formerly minimania
From: Cant Count
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 5,629

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

That last point is for both you and mutant


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#506 2019-07-27 00:52:23

Onjit
Banned
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 9,150
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

I'm spending time with my family atm, so I can't do a full write-up for at least a few hours, but I'll just remind you guys that

a) this isn't my first rodeo and
b) I am well aware of what I post and how it looks


:.|:;

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#507 2019-07-27 00:53:03

Onjit
Banned
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 9,150
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

and i forgot

c) In a game with no power roles, town has to be somewhat creative to gain an edge


:.|:;

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#508 2019-07-27 00:55:47

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Crybaby wrote:

I never ruled this out as a possibility, in fact I said this may have been possible in an earlier post

I never said you did rule out the possibility. You still have to answer my question: "Enlighten me on what [jawapa] has accomplished [by letting scum onjit vote on him]?"

Crybaby wrote:

If only you read the invisible text in this post several pages back, you'd know I want nothing to do with heaven, and me "volunteering for it" is me trying to lure Mafia members into trying to vote me in. I know Mutant read this because he quoted my post and didn't include the hidden text.

Your link is broken.

Crybaby wrote:

So did Norboy a day prior, and yet you think Norboy is town.

The sentence alone is not the argument I was making. You have to read the full paragraph.

Crybaby wrote:

Hoooo boy you sure are on a roll

Ok

Crybaby wrote:

So why do you suppose he didn't? A theory brought up multiple times by different people is that he's going for reverse psychology.

Which is a very risky move, given that mrjawapa could have just hammered on himself. The scenario I presented is far more likely.

Crybaby wrote:

Ah yes, his sus list is full of traps! Who would have thought a Mafia goon would fill his sus list with traps?

That's not the argument I was making, you're ignoring what I said.

However, I am going to assume you misquoted me and wanted to say this:

Crybaby wrote:
Processor wrote:

Argument 5: He even was on Jawapa's bad list next to Trytu.

Ah yes, his sus list is full of traps! Who would have thought a Mafia goon would fill his sus list with traps?

At the time of writing, nobody suspected Jawapa and nobody knew he would make it to heaven. If Jawapa wanted to set traps in his read list, he would put Town in his Mafia-tell list.


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#509 2019-07-27 01:11:57

Crybaby
Formerly minimania
From: Cant Count
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 5,629

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

"Enlighten me on what [jawapa] has accomplished [by letting scum onjit vote on him]?"

either
a) Making Onjit seem suspicious so more people will vote on him, or
b) Making the Town want to think that he wanted to make Onjit seem suspicious to help clear Onjit's name in the case that he is Mafia

Processor wrote:

Your link is broken.

Page 9

Processor wrote:

Which is a very risky move, given that mrjawapa could have just hammered on himself.

And he didn't, so I'm not so inclined to believe you on this one.

Processor wrote:

If Jawapa wanted to set traps in his read list, he would put Town in his Mafia-tell list.

He has already fulfilled this with Trytu. It could've been possible that he'd have one Mafia and one Townie in the Mafia section

Processor wrote:

The sentence alone is not the argument I was making. You have to read the full paragraph.

I know about everything you've said against Mutantdevle. I can't defend him on everything, you've had some correct arguments; he didn't respond to you when he brought up Jawapa as a candidate. However, I will still point out that Norwegianboy, too, pointed out Jawapa as a potential candidate the night prior, and he wasn't asked why at all. That is still something significant that is worth pointing out.

Processor wrote:

At the time of writing, nobody suspected Jawapa and nobody knew he would make it to heaven.

So you mean to tell me that he was being 100% honest with us the entire time, until he thought he could make it into heaven?


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#510 2019-07-27 01:23:27

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Crybaby wrote:

either
a) Making Onjit seem suspicious so more people will vote on him, or
b) Making the Town want to think that he wanted to make Onjit seem suspicious to help clear Onjit's name in the case that he is Mafia

Correct. I think a) is more likely.
That is: Jawapa simply waited until someone hammered on him. Onjit fell in this "trap" and was framed by mrjawapa as the bad guy.
You're sugesting b)?
That is: Jawapa knew he could hammer himself and secure a mislynch. Instead, Jawapa told Onjit to hammer him, so he could make a "thanks bro" post, to make the already suspicious scum Onjit become even more suspicious. In the hope that some Processors would fall in his trap and think Onjit is town.
That plan has failed because Onjit is on my suspect list, not town list...

Can you explain why you think a) or b) is more likely?

Crybaby wrote:

And he didn't, so I'm not so inclined to believe you on this one.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand what you're trying to say...

Crybaby wrote:

He has already fulfilled this with Trytu. It could've been possible that he'd have one Mafia and one Townie in the Mafia section

Why do you think it's more likely that he'd put one mafia and one townie in the mafia section?

Crybaby wrote:

However, I will still point out that Norwegianboy, too, pointed out Jawapa as a potential candidate the night prior, and he wasn't asked why at all. That is still something significant that is worth pointing out.

a) That's whataboutism
b) the fact that Mutantdevle suggested mrjawapa is not suspicious at all IMO
c) I asked mutantdevle why and he couldn't/didn't answer me (which is the point)

Question to you: Why is it worth pointing out?

Crybaby wrote:

So you mean to tell me that he was being 100% honest with us the entire time, until he thought he could make it into heaven?

No, never said that. I implied the opposite. What do you mean?


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#511 2019-07-27 01:44:11

Crybaby
Formerly minimania
From: Cant Count
Joined: 2015-02-22
Posts: 5,629

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

Can you explain why you think a) or b) is more likely?

I'm suspicious of Onjit and I have been for a while. He's used Mutant, Kira, and myself as a crutch, meanwhile he hasn't actually contributed much on his own. During the last heaven phase, he voted for me early on in the night, even though I am opposed to going to heaven. He removed his vote after the chance to hammer onto Jawapa the first time he was L-1 was lost, giving me the feeling that he wanted to hammer but he was just too late/couldn't have predicted that I'd remove my vote. He has also been following the bandwagon on multiple votes, including the one for Jawapa, even saying "sure let's do this" or whatever he said to that effect.

Processor wrote:

Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand what you're trying to say...

He very easily could have hammered onto his own vote. Why didn't he? Could he have been trying to make one last person seem suspicious? Well duh, that's the smart thing to do. That's a common sense decision, and any spectator could easily figure this out. But, what if he had a Mafia Onjit hammer knowing that we would come to the conclusion I just mentioned? It would be his only way of trying to help Onjit clear his name (as he has already been suspicious for a while). Now that there are 3 Mafia members left in the game, with only one Mafia member in heaven, the Mafia can't afford to make mistakes, otherwise they'll have to hope that both the remaining members after Onjit is lynched (if he is mafia) make it into heaven, and that's completely unpredictable. His post saying "thanks fam" and Onjit's follow up post could be them both "doubling down" on this reverse psychology.

Processor wrote:

Why do you think it's more likely that he'd put one mafia and one townie in the mafia section?

Because, as you said, he would likely put only town members in his Mafia section, or at least, that's probably what he would want you to think if he ever died. We already lynched Trytu, and we know that he's a townie. Putting Onjit in his suspicious list would a) ensure that Onjit had some layer of protection upon Jawapa's death, and b) distance Onjit from Jawapa at the same time.

Processor wrote:

c) I asked mutantdevle why and he couldn't/didn't answer me (which is the point)

I've just said that I can't defend this, this is up to Mutantdevle. I have my own questions for Mutant after I'm done talking to you

Processor wrote:

Question to you: Why is it worth pointing out?

You gave me the impression that "he brought up Jawapa out of the blue like nothing" was something to be suspicious of, in addition to "He couldn't provide a reason for it", in which case, it's interesting to me that Norboy is town to you rather than simply being neutral.

Processor wrote:

What do you mean?

Jawapa as a Mafia member should know that he will not last the entire game. The win condition of the Mafia team is to get a majority of their members into heaven, meaning they are required to take risks. Should those risks not pay off, such as, in the case Jawapa is lynched and flips Mafia, he should have planned ahead, and either a) said something that made it seem like he was tied to somebody, or b) set traps in his sus list, to forcefully tie others to him while also protecting others (i.e. placing one town and one mafia member in his Mafia list to spur confusion)


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#512 2019-07-27 03:43:42

Onjit
Banned
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 9,150
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

At first I was excited to write a big post explaining what I've been doing this whole game but then I realised that I'm actually going to need to read a bunch of posts and open a million new tabs and that really makes me ****

(I'm back at my computer, I'll get the post up soon)


:.|:;

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#513 2019-07-27 09:21:05

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,289

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Still waitin.

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#514 2019-07-27 11:18:20, last edited by NoNK (2019-07-27 11:18:34)

NoNK
Member
Joined: 2019-07-13
Posts: 577

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]


With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to send a smiley to HELL.

https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/a/a2/032_diamond Onjit [2]: mutantdevle, ZeldaXD

https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/0/04/115_graduate Crybaby [1]: Onjit

https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/a/a9/087_bishop ZeldaXD [1]: Processor

Not voting [7]: Everyone else

This phase will enter overtime in 60 hours


Mod notes:

One of the notes ringing in your head stops.


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#515 2019-07-27 12:11:37

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,289

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

It just feels like he’s stalling at this point. I’m keeping my vote on him to increase the pressure and hopefully make him talk.

/Vote Onjit

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#516 2019-07-27 12:27:17

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,573
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:

I also don't like your phrasing of putting me 'back' in your sus list, because you've stated before that you never suspected me and your original vote on me was a joke. At what point in the game did you previously suspect me?

Mutant sus. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 93#p756493
Mutant mafiaish: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 98#p756498
Mutant sus again. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 11#p756511

You've got to be trolling me right? These are literally just the posts you made before your reads list...

Between these 3 posts and your sus list you didn't town read me. Once I was in your sus list I never left it. So if that's the only explanation for your words then I've not really been put 'back' in anything and you've just used misleading wording.


Processor wrote:

Something worth noting: Crybaby and mutant have become super nervous now that I have put them on my sus list.

Framing our actions as 'nervous' is incredibly manipulative. What part of what we've said has come across as 'nervous'? Nervousness isn't really something that can come across through text - unless someone who is usually good at spelling/grammar starts making lots of mistakes. You've only used that word because nervousness is associated with guilt. I don't for a second believe that your take on our responses is that we're 'nervous'. What you really mean is that we've responded to your claims against us. Were you honestly expecting us to just ignore them?

Something worth noting: processor has become super nervous now that I started pushing Onjit to be sent to hell.


Processor wrote:
mutantdevle wrote:

At no point did you ever say that your arguments were 'the most likely case'. But even 'the most likely case' is just opinion.

Oh what did you expect? That those were definitive statements?

Someone explained the concept very well...

Dude... that's the whole damn point of the game... why are you playing mafia if you don't want to analyse people's posts to determine their motives? [...] You're not usually meant to be able to make definitive conclusions. Mafia is a game of guesswork and opinions, of hiding and finding motives.

(Source)

The very fact that I made this post and fully understand that concept is exactly why you shouldn't be interpreting my criticisms the way you are. Of course I'm going to see your statements as definitive because you are not willing to entertain the alternatives. You seem to have it in your head that it's illogical to believe anything other than what is 'most likely'. If you only ever believe what is 'most likely' then the mafia is very easily going to be able to pull one over on you. But the main problem with what you've been saying is that what you consider to be most likely is just your opinion. Opinion does not dictate probability. If something is more likely than something else, then I'm sorry but you fundamentally should be able to prove that. Probability is not opinion.


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#517 2019-07-27 12:27:37

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,573
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

At no point in that post do I say that Crybaby does not want to go to heaven. I simply say that the decision should be down to him. At numerous points in the game it has been very clear that Crybaby has been mixed on the idea of going to heaven. It's very clear that he wants to stay in purgatory to help as much as possible but is willing to go to heaven because he also knows he'd be useful there as well. "I mean, if you want me to go then I guess I'll go" is the perfect example of exactly that. I don't understand why you think it's unreasonable that I'd offer him the choice.

As a little note from this: Crybaby and I have had every chance to get into heaven. If I had asked to go to heaven after Zoey's lynch I'd be there right now. All Crybaby had to do to get into heaven is confirm that he was willing to go after my post giving him the choice. So why do you think we are mafia? Do you really think it would make sense if we were both mafia who both had an opportunity to go to heaven but both denied it?

Can I also just ask, what part of pretending that crybaby does not want to go to heaven would make me mafia?


Processor wrote:

Argument 2: Mutant pushed for a Jawapa town vote, out of the blue, without explaining why. https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 97#p756297
When called out for it, he defends jawapa with the help of whataboutism: https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 31#p756331
When I criticize his analogy, he ignores it
He refuses to explain why twice, even when I explicitly asked twice https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 47#p756347
-> He did not have an explanation ready
--> He could not explain his motivations
---> external motivation factors might be at play here

You're right that I didn't explain why when I offered up jawapa as a candidate. I personally felt that the reasons were somewhat obvious. Given how supported the idea was, I had no reason to doubt they were.

"When called out for it, he defends jawapa with the help of whataboutism:"
This is a dishonest way of presenting what happened. You didn't call me out on anything. You made the statement that the quick votes on jawapa made him suspicious. Why are you misrepresenting what happened?

You didn't criticise my analogy. You responded to my question. Please point out to me where in that post you make a criticism of what I say? You're again twisting the truth. Furthermore, I didn't ignore your analogy. I quite clearly responded to the question you asked me in that post. The rest of your post didn't need commenting on. It was a valid point and I had the answer I wanted from you. Why would I question it? It's obviously not something you took issue with at the time. And you're one to talk for ignoring things. I still have several points that you've yet to address. Sure, I understand that it's naturally going to take you a while to respond to everything that I and others have asked of you, but the fact that your replying to some things I've said and not others that were in the same post would suggest to me that you are cherrypicking what you want to respond to.

I never refused to explain anything. I answered your questions albeit in a very vague way. I purposely did that you aggravate you in an attempt to see how you'd react. Instead of trying to question me further or even ask why I was being so vague you instead vote for jawapa??? As though somehow by not giving you any information that convinced you to vote him too.

I did have an explanation ready and I could explain my motivations - you just never got to that part. Jawapa played a very townie game. He's not made any really scummy posts, he was helpful and giving reads, and he even criticised Zoey well before I did. Even you did not scum read him based on his own actions - when you were suspicious of him it was because of other people's actions. You can't honestly sit here and say it was unreasonable to town read jawapa because you and many other people did.

Processor wrote:

Argument 3: Mutant's analysis on Onjit is ****.

mutantdevle wrote:

And finally, a summary of his links to jawapa:
- Obviously, voted jawapa into heaven.

- Jawapa could have voted himself into heaven as well. Scum can always community with eachother. Mafia won nothing by not having mrjawapa hammer. Mafia only increased the risk of Onjit being lynched next day.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Both jawapa and Onjit were fairly critical of processor. A specific point of criticism here is that Onjit wooted a post by jawapa that criticised processor of not contributing much - something Onjit is also guilty of.

- Does not rule out different factions. Even you have criticized me for not contributing much, your statement is hypocritical here.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Onjit has wooted a fair few of jawapa's posts which is evidence that he was agreeing with/backing up jawapa's points.

- Jawapa was considered town by many of us, including you. It's hypocritical to assume wooting means anything in this case.

mutantdevle wrote:

- Jawapa put Onjit in his null list. A common thing for mafia to do when they don't want to have to give an opinion on their teammate.

- Jawapa put Onjit in his "Mafia-lean" list, your statement is plain wrong! https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 52#p755752

First of all, you've only made arguments against my links between Onjit and Jawapa. What about the rest of the case I made on him?

Your first point here is very valid. I've said that before. However, there were 2 whole minutes between Crybaby's L-1 vote and Onjit's hammer. Jawapa posted 4 minutes later so he only saw Crybaby's vote 6 minutes after it happened. His previous post was just over half an hour before that. Obviously, that shows that he was regularly looking at the thread waiting for the L-1 vote to be placed. Given the timing of everything it's entirely plausible that Jawapa hadn't had the chance to see he was on L-1 by the time Onjit voted. As for the communication aspect, I shared a PT with Onjit in the previous mafia game. He's not so good at checking the PT regularly. He'd always check the thread before the PT. So if Jawapa had vocalised there that he intended to self-hammer, Onjit would not have seen it. Of course, we can't prove any of this. Which is why I accept your theory as something that is plausible and valid. If this was the only thing that Onjit was being contested on then I would 100% think he is town. But considering all the other evidence against Onjit, I think it's more likely that jawapa just didn't have the opportunity to hammer himself.

Your second point treats my own as if it was an isolated thing. If you were to take any single 1 of my points and look at it without considering all my other points then of course it's going to be a weak case. But this point is in combination with all my other points. It's adding fuel to a fire that represents my case against Onjit. If his only crime in this game was 1 shared opinion with Jawapa then I'd never have made the case. And it's not hypocritical. I made my own post criticising you. Onjit instead just expressed agreement with jawapa. He never expressed the same agreement with me. That's the connection I'm making. But if you want to provide evidence that I'm mafia by saying I had a shared mentality with jawapa then you're more than welcome to. But so far all your case against me has been is a point that you haven't explained why it makes me mafia, the obvious point to make that I'm partly responsible for getting jawapa into heaven, and finally that you disagree with me about Onjit. For that final one I'm not sure why you think disagreeing is evidence of mafia motivation unless you think I've been manipulative in my case about Onjit? In which case you certainly haven't expressed that.

For your third point I'd like to again say that by itself that my point is not strong by any means. But that in combination with many of my other points against him is more reason to believe I'm right about him. You're throwing the word hypocrite around a lot here when that's really not appropriate for what I'm criticising Onjit for. Especially since he was the only one that's felt the need to woot jawapa's posts. I've also never expressed much if any agreement with the things that jawapa said. I wasn't town reading him because I agreed with what he said I was town reading him because he seemed like he was contributing and trying to solve the game.

Finally, you're right. I made a mistake. But the reason I thought Onjit was in jawapa's null list is that jawapa starts his reason for putting Onjit there as "Hasn't done anything for me to say one way or the other." which is what you'd typically say about null reads.






Your case against me doesn't feel very strong. I guess that's why you've expressed in previous posts that you're still a bit unsure of me and why you didn't vote for me at the end of the case. Your third point is not a case against me but rather a defence of Onjit. As for your first, I'm not sure how that would make me mafia even if you were right about it. Your only decent point is your second one. If you truly believe that I did that from being scum rather than being tricked by jawapa then there's not a lot I can say to convince you otherwise. But I do ask you to look at whether you actually have any other reason to suspect other than that 1 event, why you think this 1 scummy action trumps all my townie ones, how you think I'd fit in with the other people you're suspicious of, and why you think that scum!onjit wouldn't be so obvious about voting a teammate into heaven but how scum!mutantdevle would be even more obvious in starting the wagon in the first place?


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#518 2019-07-27 12:29:22

mutantdevle
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From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,573
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Onjit wrote:

b) I am well aware of what I post and how it looks

So what you are saying is that you've been purposely scummy this entire time?

If so then I expect at least 2 of the following from you:
- An explanation of the motivations behind why
- A hidden message in one of your ****
- Genuine reads and analysis of the players in the game


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#519 2019-07-27 12:47:29

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 3,573
Website

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor wrote:

If Jawapa wanted to set traps in his read list, he would put Town in his Mafia-tell list.

Why? Treating scum's actions as though they are as straightforward as this is a good way to lose a game. Mafia members will put any of their teammates anywhere as long as it's consistent with how they treat them in the game. If they are going to criticise them they'll put them in the mafia list. If they are going to praise and defend them they'll put them in their town list. If they are undecided on how to treat them they'll put them in the null list. Of course, their placement may change based on the events of the game. They would also do this with all town members so you can't tell who is aligned with who just from a list. The only real consistent trend is that players who haven't been mafia much before will tend to null read their buddies because they don't know how to act towards them.

Crybaby wrote:
Processor wrote:

"Enlighten me on what [jawapa] has accomplished [by letting scum onjit vote on him]?"

either
a) Making Onjit seem suspicious so more people will vote on him, or
b) Making the Town want to think that he wanted to make Onjit seem suspicious to help clear Onjit's name in the case that he is Mafia

You're both forgetting the possibility that Onjit just got there before jawapa could. Mafia teams tend not to be as well organised as you'd like to think. Especially not on this forum.

Crybaby wrote:

I have my own questions for Mutant after I'm done talking to you

I'm ready to answer them whenever you're ready to ask them.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

It just feels like he’s stalling at this point.

If he is time-wasting then that's likely going to result in his own lynch. But as things stand, the prospect that he was intentionally being scummy makes me revoke this statement:

mutantdevle wrote:

I'm of the belief that Onjit is 100% mafia and there is very little that could change my mind.


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#520 2019-07-27 12:52:50

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

mutantdevle wrote:

You've got to be trolling me right? These are literally just the posts you made before your reads list...

Between these 3 posts and your sus list you didn't town read me. Once I was in your sus list I never left it. So if that's the only explanation for your words then I've not really been put 'back' in anything and you've just used misleading wording.

You asked why I used the word "back" the second time I said you were sus. I gave you an honest and logical explanation.
I'm not sure what you're archiving here by criticising one of the words I used.

nervousness

What I mean by that is... (applies to Mutantdevle and Crybaby)
a) you're super defensive
b) you're self centered, you only talk about defending yourself
c) you start criticizing little things like individual words, our of context
c) you ignore other suspects


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#521 2019-07-27 12:57:06

NorwegianboyEE
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From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,289

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

>Me looks at length of Mutant’s posts.
Mother of god...

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#522 2019-07-27 12:57:46

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Lynching Onjit seems riskier than lynching ZeldaXD.

@everyone: take a look at ZeldaXD and see if you can get behind lynching him.

There are 3 mafia left, but we only have one Onjit. So there's at least 2 more left.


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#523 2019-07-27 12:59:35

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,173

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Onjit is stalling and while he plays his silly little game with us, let's make good use of the time to consider who / who else could be mafia.


I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.

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#524 2019-07-27 13:04:28

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,289

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

Processor, how about you actually explain plain and simple, why you think ZeldaXD is mafia? Most of us have "looked" at his posts and decided neutral (at least i do). Why do you think he’s mafia/scummy specifically?

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#525 2019-07-27 13:15:54

NorwegianboyEE
Member
From: Norway
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 3,289

Re: Mafia 27: PurgatorEE [GAME OVER!]

@Processor
So now you think Onjit is scum, but we shouldn’t lynch him??

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