Easter and Halloween Contest

Kira · 2018-04-06 10:00:57

I asked for another chance to compete for these smileys. That is all.
Former winners getting mad over this, clearly does not understand my point of view: "THEY ARE MINE, **** OFF!"

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These contest smileys should not be magic rewards, that's really dumb. It's clearly disrespecting previous winners.

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Using the "Previous staff promised they would never be available again" argument is just dumb imo. They never promise anything to begin with, and that's the old staff we're talking about, not the current one. Making these smileys available again through competition wouldn't break any promises.

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Also ThuggishPrune, chill. No need to call people names over some topic about 16x16 pixel content.

azurepudding, Mait, mutantdevle, Yonanoke

Enurp · 2018-04-06 10:13:21

smilies are mine reeeeeeeeeeeee

Also, I'm not exactly angry. Most of my vocabulary is swearing which can give off an ANGER vibe. I'm more annoyed. I feel like I earned these rewards for a contest and I feel like they shouldn't be given out anymore.

Doomsdaytoy9000 · 2018-04-06 12:11:16

Easter and Halloween contests should be held annually and the smiley prizes should be 1st place reward for every contest

peace · 2018-04-06 15:02:56

think of it this way you had the chance to wear it until now wihtout anyone haveing it same aplies when staff gave much things for free sfom the shop and people complaining they wanted energ yback...

Enurp · 2018-04-06 15:23:05

peace wrote:

think of it this way you had the chance to wear it until now wihtout anyone haveing it same aplies when staff gave much things for free sfom the shop and people complaining they wanted energ yback...

However, the prize wasn't "get to wear this smiley until staff gives it out for free. Also please for the love of god please take the extra 3 seconds and look at what you type.

John · 2018-04-06 17:27:47

Enurp wrote:

My "**** other ways" are mostly aimed towards people agreeing with John/Emalton/**** stating how they should be Magic rewards. That's moronic. When did you speak for the community on how they want limited time items?

It was merely a suggestion that was designed to spark a discussion. I've also only had one username change so I'm not sure why that's hard for you to grasp???

peace wrote:

anyway i thnk ee cold just make small medaals wwith diffrent shaoepes and you can wear it under any smiley you want

That would be cool

PTU

Enurp · 2018-04-06 20:21:15

John wrote:

I've also only had one username change so I'm not sure why that's hard for you to grasp???

who r u again

PTU

peace · 2018-04-07 10:10:06

Enurp wrote:

peace wrote:
think of it this way you had the chance to wear it until now wihtout anyone haveing it same aplies when staff gave much things for free sfom the shop and people complaining they wanted energ yback...
However, the prize wasn't "get to wear this smiley until staff gives it out for free. Also please for the love of god please take the extra 3 seconds and look at what you type.

no and so wasnt about buying shop items it wasnt supost to be buy to use it befroe staff gives it for free

Joeyc · 2018-04-07 21:42:55

Doomsdaytoy9000 wrote:

Easter and Halloween contests should be held annually and the smiley prizes should be 1st place reward for every contest

so what if they already won, guess nobody gets them now

Pyromaniac · 2018-04-08 03:52:08

Kira wrote:

Also ThuggishPrune, chill. No need to call people names over some topic about 16x16 pixel content.

bro have u ever been chill about one single thing in ur whole life?

Enurp, skullz17

Enurp · 2018-04-08 05:38:47

Pyromaniac wrote:

Kira wrote:
Also ThuggishPrune, chill. No need to call people names over some topic about 16x16 pixel content.
bro have u ever been chill about one single thing in ur whole life?

oh **** *fire emoji* *100 emoji*

skullz17 · 2018-04-08 13:16:11

Kira wrote:

Former winners getting mad over this, clearly does not understand my point of view: "THEY ARE MINE, **** OFF!"

It blows my mind how a person can write something like this and not realise how ironic it sounds. You say that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand your argument, which is pretty idiotic in itself, and then you go ahead and misrepresent the opposing argument. Are you trolling?

I agree with TP tbh, people who feel they deserve an opportunity to get old contest smileys are being entitled. I don't know why you think you deserve that. It is crystal clear that these smileys were never intended to be used as repeated rewards for future contests, whether a promise was made or not, so why bring them back? It's not just that people worked hard for them, it's that people were given the impression that that was their only shot. You cannot recreate those same conditions if people feel that they always have a second chance to get the smileys, even if they lose. What you're suggesting is that losing a contest twice and then winning on your third try should have the same reward as winning on your first try. That only makes sense if it was clear that the reward was supposed to be a repeated reward anyway. You think you're making it more fair for people who weren't around when these contests took place, but you aren't considering the implications of repeating rewards vs unique rewards in general, and how rewards can end up depreciating in value further into the future.

I also want to add that uniqueness and exclusiveness is extremely important in rewards. It instantly makes them more valuable, and that creates incentive to stick around and take part in contests. I do like the idea of there being common rewards for all contest winners, but ideally these should be small and unimpressive compared to the more unique rewards, i.e. probably not smileys. However, this gives rise to the problem that if you want unique smileys for every contest, you're going to run out of ideas at some point. Then you have two options:
1. stop making unique smileys and accept that unique rewards will have to be something like blocks or badges, which cannot be shown off as easily (+ blocks have utility in building worlds, which is somewhat unfair)
2. create new types of cosmetic items which can be used as unique rewards
Option 2 is obviously ideal, but it is much more difficult to pull off and will require a lot of careful thinking from some creative minds.

Koto, Atikyne, Luka504, Enurp, Xfrogman43

Koto · 2018-04-08 15:54:02

I agree whole heartily with you, Skullz. Contest Prizes (and smileys) in general should promote uniqueness and individuality. That's been built into the core of the Everybody Edits experience. You don't hear people complaining about the Big Spender not being available to poor people for a reason.

peace · 2018-04-08 19:34:42

Koto wrote:

You don't hear people complaining about the Big Spender not being available to poor people for a reason.

bgispender is obtaainable contest smilets not

Joeyc · 2018-04-08 19:40:52

peace wrote:

Koto wrote:
You don't hear people complaining about the Big Spender not being available to poor people for a reason.
bgispender is obtaainable contest smilets not

That's cause you can get the big spender anytime you want, and there is no effort besides spending 50 bucks to it. I do very much agree with what you all have to say, I have pretty much changed my mind at this point.
Strongly agree they shouldn't be returning. I wouldn't mind seeing mini contests either, like for trophies and such. winter contest whenn

Enurp · 2018-04-08 22:19:29

Kira wrote:

I asked for another chance to compete for these smileys. That is all.
Former winners getting mad over this, clearly does not understand my point of view: "THEY ARE MINE, **** OFF!"

No I totally see and understand your argument, I just disagree that you all don't get a chance to compete for them. The contest prizes in 2011 were the smilies, and the contests were the chances to get them. They aren't going to do them again no matter how much people beg.

azurepudding · 2018-04-09 08:10:50

skullz17 wrote:

Kira wrote:
Former winners getting mad over this, clearly does not understand my point of view: "THEY ARE MINE, **** OFF!"
I agree with TP tbh, people who feel they deserve an opportunity to get old contest smileys are being entitled.

This entitlement argument works on both sides, those who want another chance can be called entitled, those who don't want anyone else to have it can also be entitled (and perhaps even MORE entitled, as we're not asking for freebies, but for another chance which is NOT a guaranteed win, which for some reason so many people keep equating another chance as a for-sure win). So, maybe we should drop this entitlement point, as it does neither side any good?

skullz17 wrote:

I don't know why you think you deserve that

you're acting like people want the smiley given for free but people just want another chance to get it, like the artist smiley having a return. Just because it returns, doesn't make it a freebie, as people would still have to work really hard to win it.

skullz17 wrote:

It is crystal clear that these smileys were never intended to be used as repeated rewards for future contests, whether a promise was made or not, so why bring them back?

This statement is false because it was NOT made crystal clear. We were told that if you win, you get this special smiley. It was never stated that this was the only time this smiley would be awarded. It was also never stated that these would return either, but it still leaves the staff able to return the prizes if they decide to with no promises being broken.

As for why they should bring them back, I think you answered that yourself here..:

skullz17 wrote:

However, this gives rise to the problem that if you want unique smileys for every contest, you're going to run out of ideas at some point.

This is why contest smileys should return, because it appears to either be that, or not have contests again. The latter option isn't as fun, so they should return, although we don't need to have a Halloween or Easter contest every year, there could be one season's contest every 2-3 years or so, so that these smilies can still retain their uniqueness and still give a sense that you WANT to win this time, or else you'll have to wait a few years.. and won't be as disappointing as losing and literally having no chance ever to win. Man, that would be quite frustrating.

skullz17 wrote:

It's not just that people worked hard for them, it's that people were given the impression that that was their only shot.

Except this never really happened, and that the players just assumed they would never return. The contest posts themselves never state that this was a one shot deal, just that this was an opportunity to win these smilies. An opportunity does not necessarily mean the one and only chance ever.

skullz17 wrote:

You cannot recreate those same conditions if people feel that they always have a second chance to get the smileys, even if they lose. What you're suggesting is that losing a contest twice and then winning on your third try should have the same reward as winning on your first try.

But why does that matter? If one year, if you were able to be the best of the best, should that not qualify you for the top prize then? Couldn't you argue you may be even more deserving then, if you were able to beat winners of previous contests this go around? That this time, you were BETTER than the best?

skullz17 wrote:

That only makes sense if it was clear that the reward was supposed to be a repeated reward anyway. You think you're making it more fair for people who weren't around when these contests took place, but you aren't considering the implications of repeating rewards vs unique rewards in general, and how rewards can end up depreciating in value further into the future.

But it was never made clear either of what you're believing either, so that lets the staff have two options of what would be best for the game. And running out of contest smileys does not sound like a choice for what's best for the game. Previous winners shouldn't be upset because it was never mentioned they would be prizes never to be won again. And, not that it should matter too much, but as a winner of a Designer smiley, I wish for that one to become available again, only if it's obtainable as it was the first time. I believe contests are healthy for EE and I find it somewhat selfish to put one's bragging rights before the rest of the community. We could have both co-exist (as seen with an image in a previous post of mine), but if it's between one or the other, community should be first. And even then, letting others win also benefits everyone, as it gives everyone more fun worlds to play. It gives us more incentive to create more higher quality worlds.

skullz17 wrote:

I also want to add that uniqueness and exclusiveness is extremely important in rewards. It instantly makes them more valuable, and that creates incentive to stick around and take part in contests. I do like the idea of there being common rewards for all contest winners, but ideally these should be small and unimpressive compared to the more unique rewards, i.e. probably not smileys. However, this gives rise to the problem that if you want unique smileys for every contest, you're going to run out of ideas at some point. Then you have two options:
1. stop making unique smileys and accept that unique rewards will have to be something like blocks or badges, which cannot be shown off as easily (+ blocks have utility in building worlds, which is somewhat unfair)
2. create new types of cosmetic items which can be used as unique rewards
Option 2 is obviously ideal, but it is much more difficult to pull off and will require a lot of careful thinking from some creative minds.

Blocks are bad, badges aren't good enough, but what about little icons displayed beside your username to show you've won before?

I think you dismantle most of your argument here with this snippet. Exclusiveness does add value, but isn't that a point supporting entit- I MEAN- ..think of it like the olympics. Medals are won one year, but do we just never have another olympics ever again then? Would that subtract the value of previously won medals? Would it make the first medals less impressive to have now? No, if you win, that still remains an impressive feat. Contests are more than just the awards, as they also breathe more life into the game, and that is something we should all support. Having those smilies would still be a special thing, but it should not take priority over the overall health of the game.

Koto wrote:

I agree whole heartily with you, Skullz. Contest Prizes (and smileys) in general should promote uniqueness and individuality. That's been built into the core of the Everybody Edits experience. You don't hear people complaining about the Big Spender not being available to poor people for a reason.

This is not an accurate analogy, as contest smileys were a one time chance based on skill, whereas big spender is forever available to be bought.

it would be an accurate analogy if the big spender was only in shop for one purchase, and after then, literally no one else could buy it. the first one to buy it would be the only owner of it.

Koto · 2018-04-09 14:09:41

These are the words of the creator of the game. I feel like my comparison was accurate enough. You're asking for these smileys to be given out as a prize a second time, when the playerbase is about 1/100 of what it was when these were originally released. These smileys have no value outside of the value that you have decided that it has. If tuese smileys DID have real value, then what you are asking is to severely decrease the value of them.

Plus, RPGMaster used to visit worlds on a constant basis and talk to players as he was a part of the community. Just because it might not explicitly state so on the original blog post, does not mean that players who won said smileys weren't promised that they wouldn't be given out a second time.

This exact scenario has pplayed out in EE in the past, go look at the original diamond block and the fake Big Spender.

Guest. · 2018-04-09 14:48:08

Koto wrote:

These smileys have no value outside of the value that you have decided that it has.

if you want numbers the contest smileys are 100000 gems in the db

Koto

peace · 2018-04-09 14:50:43

you need to know that former winners got the chance to wear them before anyone else

Koto · 2018-04-09 17:20:07

How about retiring the smileys in the reboot, and having new bunny/bird/pumpkin smileys, and during the last week that this EE is up, everyone gets every smiley (Contest, Big Spender, Superman)?

Edit: Or you could give the default pumpkin to everyone in the new EE, and give the lit one as a Map Building Contest prize, and then have a white pumpkin smiley available as a Halloween Campaign prize, and a lit white pumpkin as a Halloween Loadscreen contest prize.

Xenonetix · 2018-04-09 18:15:32

Ok, I feel like it's about time I weighed in on this conversation, considering it seems to be on-going with no end in sight.

So, firstly, although this is a new staff team, I still try to maintain the promises of previous staff for the most part, unless it's not really logical or reasonable to do so. In this case, I do believe it is reasonable to keep the promise for these smileys to stay exclusive for the original winners of the contest (and the smileys I have myself bear no relation on this).

That being said, I know how people feel - I am a completionist player at heart, and I was gutted when I missed out on the Artist smiley the first time round, considering I owned every smiley up until that point excluding Big Spender (and Superman). I definitely understand the argument of "It's unfair that we didn't happen to be around during these particular 3 weeks in a month of 2011", but it should be remembered that there were hundreds of players that didn't get it themselves at the time as well, even though they put the effort into the contest. It was never a guarantee that people would receive the smileys.

Recently, I considered the possibility of allowing the contest smileys to be bought, placing them in Classic with other Classic smileys, in the same way we did with the Slime smiley. The Slime smiley is a good example of a smiley that was available for free during 2 weeks last year if you were active to get it, and if you missed it, you could still purchase it for gems if you really wanted it.

But contest smileys are a different matter - They were earned by the people who placed in the contest. No matter how people look at it, it can't be ignored that people put the effort in to win the smiley, and it will be very hard to replicate a similar (or higher) level of effort if we were to introduce a new contest to win the smileys. This is part of the reason why we re-introduced the Artist smiley in a contest, as it was relatively easy to win it the first time if you just happened to be playing during the time of the contest, and we provided a way to receive it with a higher level of effort to be put in. As such, it would be unfair on the people who won the Easter and Halloween smileys if it becomes any easier to receive them at this point. I do think the people who received the smileys would be ok with them being made available again if they believed the people competing were putting in the same amount of effort they did themselves.

If a new contest were to be produced in Everybody Edits today (which awarded the previous smileys), it would be hard to justify the amount of effort people would need to put in to the contest, so most of the people who won the smileys first time round would most likely reasonably argue that it would be 'so much easier to win the smiley' in this contest, and their feelings of achievement and accomplishment will be naturally diminished as a result. In less complicated terms, this is represented (at a base level) by the number of people who own the smiley, because it immediately feels like less of an achievement the more people own it.

Then the question becomes "What is the true value of these items?", which is almost impossible to calculate, which is one of the reasons it was decided against putting them in the Classic section of the store, but we thought it would be fun instead to allow everyone access to them for one day in the form of April Fools' Day, which we really hope everyone enjoyed.

I wish to respect the wishes of the previous staff, so: The Bird, Bunny, Unlit Pumpkin, and Lit Pumpkin smileys will not be available again in the current iteration of Everybody Edits.

As for the reboot, the way we're planning on handling smileys and items in general will be rather different (although I won't go into detail yet). Even though I predict we might have a similar conversation to this many years down the line, I do feel that there should be some sort of "Veteran" item that people can only own if they played the current version of EE, and will never be available again after Flash EE shuts down.

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on that as an idea.

~ Xenonetix ~

Gosha, ByteArray, drunkbnu, PTU, Atikyne, TaskManager, mutantdevle, Enurp, N1KF

Anak · 2018-04-09 18:24:20

Xenonetix wrote:

I do feel that there should be some sort of "Veteran" item that people can only own if they played the current version of EE, and will never be available again after Flash EE shuts down.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on that as an idea.

I'm down with that. Many other games offer perks/etc. for users who played during the beta/initial period of the game, and I imagine this is a similar situation.

ByteArray, Xenonetix, TaskManager

Raphe9000 · 2018-04-09 19:00:29

Xenonetix wrote:

I do feel that there should be some sort of "Veteran" item that people can only own if they played the current version of EE, and will never be available again after Flash EE shuts down.

I agree with this, but I think that just giving flash players an item will be useless for a long time. The reason for this is that everyone will have that item. It will be useless for a while because it will have no meaning until a substantial amount of new players have joined, and this will mean still that a lot of players have this item. I present to you two solutions:

One:
Give yearly rewards instead of a single reward. Players who played flash for 1 year get something, but players who played flash for 2 years get that and something else. This means that players who have played for a long time have something to show for it instead of the same reward everyone else has.

Two:
Allow transfer of certain smileys. I'd recommend the bunny, bird, pumpkins, superman, fanboys, artist, designer, and big spender. These smileys are literal representations of how long you've played, how dedicated of a player you are, and none of these players will complain having what's practically their identity in the game stripped. Not carrying them over is debatably worse than giving new ones away because then it's telling these players anything they did no longer matters at all. This would also apply to trophy blocks and the diamond.

Anak · 2018-04-09 19:18:16

Raphe9000 wrote:

Xenonetix wrote:
I do feel that there should be some sort of "Veteran" item that people can only own if they played the current version of EE, and will never be available again after Flash EE shuts down.
I agree with this, but I think that just giving flash players an item will be useless for a long time. The reason for this is that everyone will have that item. It will be useless for a while because it will have no meaning until a substantial amount of new players have joined, and this will mean still that a lot of players have this item.

They expect to get a lot of new players once the reboot is done, otherwise I imagine this wouldn't have been suggested.

Xenonetix, skullz17

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#101 2018-04-06 10:00:57

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#102 2018-04-06 10:13:21, last edited by Enurp (2018-04-06 10:22:29)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#103 2018-04-06 12:11:16

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#104 2018-04-06 15:02:56

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#105 2018-04-06 15:23:05

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#106 2018-04-06 17:27:47

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#107 2018-04-06 20:21:15

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#108 2018-04-07 10:10:06

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#109 2018-04-07 21:42:55

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#110 2018-04-08 03:52:08, last edited by Pyromaniac (2018-04-08 03:53:00)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#111 2018-04-08 05:38:47

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#112 2018-04-08 13:16:11, last edited by skullz17 (2018-04-08 15:58:58)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#113 2018-04-08 15:54:02

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#114 2018-04-08 19:34:42

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#115 2018-04-08 19:40:52

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#116 2018-04-08 22:19:29

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#117 2018-04-09 08:10:50, last edited by azurepudding (2018-04-09 08:17:41)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#118 2018-04-09 14:09:41

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#119 2018-04-09 14:48:08

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#120 2018-04-09 14:50:43

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#121 2018-04-09 17:20:07, last edited by Koto (2018-04-09 17:31:44)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#122 2018-04-09 18:15:32, last edited by Xenonetix (2018-04-09 18:19:37)

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

#123 2018-04-09 18:24:20

Re: Easter and Halloween Contest

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