Getting new players to stay

ILoveBaconYUM · 2015-09-02 10:59:10

I was reading this topic by Boh earlier about comparing first and last levels. There were two comparisons that intrigued me and made a thought pop into my head and I think it would be worth discussing.

The posts that I'm talking about are the ones by Stagecrew and 0176. Both of what they had claimed to be their first levels were crew levels. But due to today's standards it is almost impossible to get into a good crew without a lot of experience. You're expected to have several worthwhile worlds and, a lot of the time, have connections with the crew's members.

So what I'm trying to say is, have we created a barrier preventing new and possibly talented people become part of the community? Even when you look at current players we see that most of them are from 2010 and 2011, but shouldn't there be just as many members from 2012 - 2014 as well? There could be a lot of people who would be some of the top tier players but left due to being daunted by the mountains they feel like they will have to climb.

So what does everyone think? Have we created such high standards of world building that newer players feel intimidated? Should it be easier for new members to join crews? Do you think it should be easier for new players to become part of the community?

!nb4, Krosis, Purge2202, Nou, Ben

skullz17 · 2015-09-02 11:05:22

I don't think so, because there is still some variety in crews. Some accept very skilled people, some are more leniant, and I think it was like that a few years ago as well when crews were very common.

tak4n · 2015-09-02 11:59:19

There are a bunch of smaller crews in which people make friends and play the game without even caring about the 2010-2011 community or the forum community. So I think the problem is not what you mentioned. The older community has nothing to do with people not staying with the game. I just generally think that since this is a flash game people play it for a bit then get bored and move on to other games.

Edit: The reason I personally stayed with the game was because I couldn't get enough of the original EX crew boss. Maybe that's the problem... there aren't enough constant worlds that act like bosses. That's why EX crew Shift was able to keep hold of the community for a while after the change of game ownership.

Badoosh · 2015-09-02 13:33:10

That seems to be true, but there are some other important factors to look at as well.

Something about the size of the shop and how 2010 - 2011 players can still keep up with it but newer players cannot. If new players wanted the amount of stuff I have (basic shop items and 25 to 100 stackable items) it would take 4 years.
IlovebaconYUM wrote:
Have we created such high standards of world building that newer players feel intimidated?
Yes. So many good worlds use tons of action items and block packs from the shop, and are usually the largest and most expensive worlds too.
"Oh boy I can invest 4 years into this game to get what everyone already has... but then I'll still be 4 years behind. Not worth it. Or I can pay a BS monthly fee to be part of the builders club, so I have to pay to make levels? lol no."
-New players, probably

This game is soo confusing. Not only the button amount in the lobby, but action items. How many worlds use invisible portals? How many players are introduced to invisible portals? To them, they're teleporting randomly which is really confusing! The wooden sharp triangles and fire kill you, but not the monster teeth. You can read the wooden signs but not the green outer space computer screen. You can climb the rope, but not the white cowboy pole. The keys open doors, but not the red and blue circles. Invisible blocks put on some backgrounds make them seem like blocks, but then you fall through them in another level!
2010 and 2011 players lived through these updates, so they know all the ins and outs of what is what, but new players haven't got a clue.

I bet if these two problems were fixed somehow, new players would stay.

tak4n, ILoveBaconYUM, Anch, Onjit, Ben, Koto, Minimania, hummerz5, SilverStar, Krosis, Br0k3n

Pingohits · 2015-09-02 14:32:29

i disagree

the reason why a lot of 2014-2015 players are not what we are now is because they're still getting used to the game

another factor is that the users are still very young and have no interest in minigames and such

they prefer hanging out in hotel worlds and drawing sprites

just you wait, in ~2 years or so there would be some good maps that are going to appear

Krosis, Br0k3n, Minimania, The Living SticK, ILoveBaconYUM, skullz17, Onjit, Xfrogman43

Calicara · 2015-09-02 15:06:27

I pretty much agree with Pingohits. I think most of players can agree when we first started we were attracted to what we could see immediately in the lobby. So levels like, box minis, stairs, bosses, sprite art etc... We assumed popularity correlated with quality.

But then for one reason or another, whether we saw a nice crew map, or just got bored of the usual mundane routine we decided to start making better maps. And most of us don't start out amazing either, it takes time to work your way up to becoming 'good' in the eyes of the community.

That's just me though.

Minimania, Koto, ILoveBaconYUM, Pingohits, Onjit

Lictor666 · 2015-09-02 15:36:15

Don't lie to yourself. It's hard to become a good builder.
Without help to build worlds, I don't see too how we could improve.
Without outstretched hands, I don't see how we meet people to help building worlds.
Efforts must come from both sides I believe.

"To survive on Wall Street, be the first, the best or cheat"
The only rule.

ILoveBaconYUM

OINX · 2015-09-02 16:20:03

Then start building interesting levels. Take your time, but it will be worth it, because a single great level can inspire many players to do the same. Such levels or interesting level parts are mostly created coincidentally. It happens when you build a world from many different sides and somehow connect these parts in a way you could not have planned it.

This is what I notice when I build. Sometimes I throw away hours of building, because it does not impress me, so it won't impress others, since one likes his own worlds the most.

This almost belongs to the level creation thread, but imo creative levels are connected to the amount of players who stay.

Tbh if it were not for campaigns, I would never play the really hard ones, because sometimes they take many hours to complete and who would torture himself without rewards?

For the game it makes no difference if you have easy jumps and collect coins or hours of hard jumps and colect 1 coin. (not talking about worlds with too many coins)

When I start building I make it a long time project over weeks or at least days. And a nice art does not guarantee quality or fun. Its looks only good for a sec when you press M.
Art is only for your own ego, which is not bad but is always 2nd prio, if we talk about good levels.

Koto, skullz17, ZeldaXD, Falk

Anch · 2015-09-02 18:39:11

I think the home world was a good start to welcoming new players, but it barely does anything to help. If we can expand on that idea (such as making a tutorial for the lobby and many other features) new players will feel more comfortable playing.

ILoveBaconYUM

Minimania · 2015-09-03 02:01:31

I think it's about time for some more elaborate tutorials, a more intuitive block selection menu, and less confusing blocks (but please don't ruin the current ingame art, because it looks cool)

ILoveBaconYUM, Badoosh

hummerz5 · 2015-09-03 02:38:04

I'm not particularly experienced with EE... so I won't pretend I know how to make the best crew or anything of that sort.

However, I think the number of people who show up on Kongregate (remember, we have that influx?) as new users with problems getting the game to load are worth considering. How many users actually would respond to say the game isn't working, rather than just skip it and move on? Are the developers even aware of this exchange?

I think that removing the bottleneck on incoming users would be substantial.

Minimania, ILoveBaconYUM

ILoveBaconYUM · 2015-09-03 21:33:09

skullz17 wrote:

I don't think so, because there is still some variety in crews. Some accept very skilled people, some are more leniant, and I think it was like that a few years ago as well when crews were very common.

I feel like most of those crews don't have the framework to last very long. Most just seem to make one world then disband shortly after, and the ones that do last usually release levels infrequently. The recent crews update might make this process slower, but I don't see much chance happening in the future.

tak4n wrote:

I just generally think that since this is a flash game people play it for a bit then get bored and move on to other games.

Everyone here however must've stayed for some reason, so how do we make those newer users stay?

Pingohits wrote:

just you wait, in ~2 years or so there would be some good maps that are going to appear

You mean from the 2014 - 2015 players? Then why aren't we seeing decent, first steps to being good, worlds from them now? I would've thought we would have seen them start appearing and showing up, possibly being taught to improve their half-decent minis by the older players.

Lictor666 wrote:

*Lots of smart things.*

Underrated post. I agree.

OINX wrote:

Then start building interesting levels.

And there are lots of interesting levels, just take a look at the rooms section! I think the problem is that newer players don't know how to find the levels. Most probably don't know that a forum exists or just don't care so they won't find levels from the rooms section and the lobby is too chaotic with being able to search for different things like amount of plays or likes so the new players will only join levels with titles they recognise like "200 minis" or "Boss to code". How are we supposed to share these levels with newer players?

Kira · 2015-09-03 21:41:39

Create a goal to achieve in the game.

Kill the sandbox concept.

Instoration of new concepts such as races with prices.

Create unique items possible to be achieved doing something. (to be completed)

Make a starting tutorial to explain everything in Everybody Edits, - ( A forced tutorial for the first login, create cool animations with arrows and bubbles with explanation inside ) -

Goal: Make the new player stay by showing him every interesting sides of Everybodyedits.

Creature · 2015-09-03 21:52:13

Kira wrote:

Kill the sandbox concept.

Do you mean killing Everybody Edits concept?

Kira · 2015-09-03 22:41:55

Totally. Everybodyedits has currently no goal, and that's boring. Adding one would make the game way more entertaining for everyone.
Struggling to achieve something ending up completing it has always a good effect in feelings toward the game.

Calicara · 2015-09-04 00:34:08

Kira wrote:

Totally. Everybodyedits has currently no goal, and that's boring. Adding one would make the game way more entertaining for everyone.
Struggling to achieve something ending up completing it has always a good effect in feelings toward the game.

I think Kira had a good point, but at the same time the moderators have been tackling that issues (hence campaign modes.)

One of the reasons I rarely play EE anymore is because I don't feel like I have the time to build a quality level. However, I do enjoy playing good levels when I do have the time. The only issue I have is that I can't do longer more difficult levels, because admittedly I am only an amateur at playing minigames. So for example, I'll never be able to do the fractured fingers campaign, because even if I tried it would take me several hours. Most games which take more than 2 hours have a save feature that enables players to come back and finish later. If EE had something like that, then I'd definitely try and play more difficult levels.

It's true though I'm sure, many quality players have left simply because they feel they had no purpose. Since EE is such a non-objective game, it's either you find your passion or leave because what fun is there to be had otherwise? Combine it with a mostly cynical community comprised of judgmental older players looking for the nostalgia of the past, and bratty newer players who think they're better then everyone else. What you get is a mishmash of confusion and chaos, which may not often appeal to long term players.

If EE truly wants more people to stay, their definitely needs to be more objective gameplay combined with the sandbox elements.

P.S. I also wrote a while ago that crews could also provide a solution to the problem, and while that is true, if you also want to include the solo players then objective mode is the way to go.

Krosis · 2015-09-04 00:51:59

the game has no objective, but the players can have one, like buy all energy blocks, get x switches, complete a minigame world, make a world

Calicara · 2015-09-04 02:12:13

Yea but what's the point of having all the stuff if you don't use it? I've considered giving away my account several times since I don't actively make levels, but the only reason I don't is because there is no one I trust enough that still plays EE. Like, I don't want a shared account lol.

mrjawapa · 2015-09-04 03:13:30

We can't redesign EE entirely to give it a new objective. I say new, because the current objective is to make worlds that other people enjoy. Obviously that isn't enough to get people to stay anymore. That's why we added campaigns. They were a way to an objective, without destroying the original idea of the game. Of course, we still have the things that I call 'sub-objectives'. Which would be buying items in the shop, logging in daily for rewards, things like that.

Personally, I don't see where objectives are the reason for players not staying. The community has a big impact on a players experience, whether it be good or bad. I stayed because I was able to make a few friends, the people on the forums seemed to be nice, and the community was roaring with people to meet. It was really easy to get involved in the community. Jump ahead 5 years. New players may make a few friends, but that's about the extent. They register on the forums and they receive smart-**** feed back, rude responses, and disrespected. Sometimes you have newer players sitting in there own levels, doing whatever it is that they do... and someone comes in bad-mouthing them, calling them names, and disrespecting them. Same occurs when they venture into other worlds.

Don't get me wrong, this stuff has happened in the past. But from my perspective, a big cause for players not staying, is the community just flat out being rude to them. How enjoyable is that? Not very. I don't care how many objectives that game has, if the community is going to be rude, and basically stone-wall from a critical part of the game, then there is no point in staying.

Also don't get me wrong on this being the only cause. There are many causes as to why people leave. And as stated in my first paragraph, we've added the campaign system to add an objective.

Schlog, Krosis, TSF14, Tamashiimizu, Minimania, Badoosh, Anch

Anch · 2015-09-04 03:41:02

Kira wrote:

Totally. Everybodyedits has currently no goal, and that's boring. Adding one would make the game way more entertaining for everyone.
Struggling to achieve something ending up completing it has always a good effect in feelings toward the game.

But not having an objective is the whole point of this game. There isn't a plot to it or anything. Just build whatever you want and chill with your friends. I would actually enjoy this less if objectives were added because there would be too much competition and showing off. This is what makes this game special.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2015-09-02 10:59:10, last edited by ILoveBaconYUM (2015-09-02 11:03:02)

Getting new players to stay

#2 2015-09-02 11:05:22

Re: Getting new players to stay

#3 2015-09-02 11:59:19, last edited by tak4n (2015-09-02 12:02:20)

Re: Getting new players to stay

#4 2015-09-02 13:33:10

Re: Getting new players to stay

#5 2015-09-02 14:32:29

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#6 2015-09-02 15:06:27

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#7 2015-09-02 15:36:15

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#8 2015-09-02 16:20:03

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#9 2015-09-02 18:39:11

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#10 2015-09-03 02:01:31

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#11 2015-09-03 02:38:04

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#12 2015-09-03 21:33:09

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#13 2015-09-03 21:41:39, last edited by Kira (2015-09-03 21:42:10)

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#14 2015-09-03 21:52:13

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#15 2015-09-03 22:41:55

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#16 2015-09-04 00:34:08, last edited by Calicara (2015-09-04 00:42:54)

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#17 2015-09-04 00:51:59

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#18 2015-09-04 02:12:13

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#19 2015-09-04 03:13:30

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