Helloo New guardian

TheSource85 · 2015-06-09 22:23:34

RavaTroll wrote:

Finaly decided to give my 2 cents. There they are :
Honnestly I find it weird that you being a new guardian was a surprise to Jawapa and others mods.
It really feels like you came out of nowhere for no reason but being NVD's brother. Sounds like favoritism to me and I don't think it should have happened without at least having you hanging around, getting to know the community and showing that you care for it, which is something every guardian should do.
So, why do people care about you buying stuff in EE ? Well it's simple : If you played the game, you would have been buying lots of stuff, made levels or get friends in game. People question you about this because they realize you haven't played this game for years and obviously wonder why you are a guardian if you're not part of the community, if you're not an EE player.
I know you think that you being unknown is a positive thing because it'll help you being not biased. I understand that, but your own position and job is biased by your relationship with NVD anyway. I really hope you can be neutral in this.
Don't get me wrong, I like NVD, I just feel he makes many beginner mistakes when it comes to being a dev/mod. Perhaps you are one, perhaps not. Please prove me wrong !
Anyway, I'll try being positive about that and say GLHF, but honnestly that was a weird introduction to the community.
Oh, and as one of my fellow EX friend once said : when it comes to EE devs, I feel like a beaten husband/wife : I'm very supsicious and untrusty because of what happened with Chris and MrShoe.

Thanks for your reply, I'm not his brother though nvd doesn't have any brother..
Also, family, friends or not.. I'm not biased towards nvd (or other staff members). I am biased towards rules and regulations. They are there for a reason and I will try to protect that

I do agree to the suddenness and the overal diverse reactions of staff and players. This whole situation has been discussed within the team for a couple of times now.
To be honest, some team members were not so happy about my sudden joining, but eventually they gave me the chance.
I have said (and the staff can confirm this) that I would be willing to step down, if that was their wish.
I think they went along for a couple of reasons (none of which is: because of nvd). I won't be explaining those reasons here, that's staff business..

In the long run I really hope that people will learn to trust my intentions. I am not here because of favoritism, I'm here to try to improve some things and because (in this case) nvd judged me to be a trustworthy guardian. What the future will bring.. I don't know...

I have learned by now that the EE players are really straight forward and I respect that. I also can trust that if I cross any line or do something really stupid (aside from the nub stuffz) that they will be all over me, which is warrented at such a point I guess.. I also trust that my 'authority' will be respected if I tell someone to chill down or (if need be) kick someone.

Thanks again for your reply
( I'm still not his brother! )

Nou, Thanel, N1KF, Priddle

BEE · 2015-06-09 23:19:57

TheSource85 wrote:

Seriously... Everyone... what importance is this whole 'when I bought anything' stuff..
First of all: That's my choice, you don't have any right to judge it because I don't have to justify it to you all..
Even if I play this game for the next 5 years and don't buy anything at all it doesn't matter.. As long as I'm happy with it, just leave me be

Ravanub wrote:

So, why do people care about you buying stuff in EE ? Well it's simple : If you played the game, you would have been buying lots of stuff, made levels or get friends in game. People question you about this because they realize you haven't played this game for years and obviously wonder why you are a guardian if you're not part of the community, if you're not an EE player.

Look I've stayed out of this publicly thus far, but I've got to side with Ravanub here.

I'm glad that you are here to defend yourself, but doing so with a "stop bothering me" tone isn't helping the situation. A lot of people have been dedicated to EE for many many years now, and they clearly care about it and want it to succeed. Their suspicions come from a place of fear and anger from past frustrations. They also haven't gotten to know you yet, and that will take time. Personally, I have yet to see you ingame, though I will assume that is because of time zone differences.

I'll give a comparison: Let's say you work at a small company in environmental protection that has been hit with hard times and has had a lot of handovers with regards to management. You've stuck with them for a while and are really dedicated to the cause. Suddenly, the boss decides to promote his nephew to a high position in the company without there being an open position nor evidence of experience in the area that he now works. The company people don't know this new person, they don't know what to expect, and there was no gradual introduction or discussions or anything. You, who have been working your butt off all this time have been slighted by this and feel a bit hurt, and in some ways, rightly so.

So, I conclude to you: don't defend yourself, prove yourself.

Thanel, Anch, skullz17, N1KF, mrjawapa, Nou, Thegame, AmdS

RavaTroll · 2015-06-09 23:25:00

I'm sure you discussed this with Nou (an others, but he's the team manager guy), I just wanted to voice my opinion about it. I thought it would have helped you understanding how difficult it'll be to be trusted.
Anyway, I trust Nou a lot and I trust him in keeping you in the guardian team.

Thanks for you answer as well.

Anch · 2015-06-09 23:38:01

BEE wrote:

TheSource85 wrote:
Seriously... Everyone... what importance is this whole 'when I bought anything' stuff..
First of all: That's my choice, you don't have any right to judge it because I don't have to justify it to you all..
Even if I play this game for the next 5 years and don't buy anything at all it doesn't matter.. As long as I'm happy with it, just leave me be
Ravanub wrote:
So, why do people care about you buying stuff in EE ? Well it's simple : If you played the game, you would have been buying lots of stuff, made levels or get friends in game. People question you about this because they realize you haven't played this game for years and obviously wonder why you are a guardian if you're not part of the community, if you're not an EE player.
Look I've stayed out of this publicly thus far, but I've got to side with Ravanub here.
I'm glad that you are here to defend yourself, but doing so with a "stop bothering me" tone isn't helping the situation. A lot of people have been dedicated to EE for many many years now, and they clearly care about it and want it to succeed. Their suspicions come from a place of fear and anger from past frustrations. They also haven't gotten to know you yet, and that will take time. Personally, I have yet to see you ingame, though I will assume that is because of time zone differences.
I'll give a comparison: Let's say you work at a small company in environmental protection that has been hit with hard times and has had a lot of handovers with regards to management. You've stuck with them for a while and are really dedicated to the cause. Suddenly, the boss decides to promote his nephew to a high position in the company without there being an open position nor evidence of experience in the area that he now works. The company people don't know this new person, they don't know what to expect, and there was no gradual introduction or discussions or anything. You, who have been working your butt off all this time have been slighted by this and feel a bit hurt, and in some ways, rightly so.
So, I conclude to you: don't defend yourself, prove yourself.

I agree with Bee. You may be a very qualified person to help run the game, but people don't know it yet. After a little while, after people get to know you better, they will probably accept you better here.

BEE

Pyromaniac · 2015-06-10 00:48:31

TheSource85 wrote:

I think they went along for a couple of reasons (none of which is: because of nvd). I won't be explaining those reasons here, that's staff business..

This isn't the first time that guardian positions have been created seemingly out of the blue. Nearly every time, if I remember correctly, there was some disagreement over the nomination/choice of guardian. The exception being Nou who was pretty much unanimously recognized as a good choice for the job. When the guardian system was first implemented all hell broke loose. People can get really defensive of this game, you'll find.

What does this tell us? That lack of communication between the staff and the community results in misunderstandings and resultant anger. I think that there should be more player involvement in choosing guardians. I mean, you have to admit, it was pretty sudden. I think that there should be more transparency between the staff and community (And apparently within the staff itself if Jawapa didn't know about this......) when making big decisions like this, and about the reasoning behind them. *Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there was a blog/forum post announcing the search for a new guardian, I didn't dig for one ;p*

I dont want to know what you have for breakfast or anything; a certain amount of information has to be withheld. Its not practical to expect flawless and complete communication. But stuff like this shouldn't come as such a big surprise especially when, like Ravatroll said, the whole Mrshoe fiasco threw everybody off balance.

Anyway, none of that is really your fault. Welcome to the community and you'll do great...hopefully.

BEE, Nou, skullz17, mrjawapa

Minimania · 2015-06-10 05:47:33

Hopefully I'm not wrong when I say that you seem like a pretty good person for EE.

TheSource85 · 2015-06-10 06:46:14

BEE wrote:

TheSource85 wrote:
Seriously... Everyone... what importance is this whole 'when I bought anything' stuff..
First of all: That's my choice, you don't have any right to judge it because I don't have to justify it to you all..
Even if I play this game for the next 5 years and don't buy anything at all it doesn't matter.. As long as I'm happy with it, just leave me be
Ravanub wrote:
So, why do people care about you buying stuff in EE ? Well it's simple : If you played the game, you would have been buying lots of stuff, made levels or get friends in game. People question you about this because they realize you haven't played this game for years and obviously wonder why you are a guardian if you're not part of the community, if you're not an EE player.
" the boss decides to promote his nephew to a high position in the company"

I agree on most of what you say, but don't forget: A guardian is not some person with lots ans lots of power and he/she is also just a volunteer. I do not get payed.
Only thing (in game that is) what I can do extra is kick people out.. I don't have edit rights or anything like that.
So the whole guardian thing isn't such a big change (or a big deal)..

But you're right.. From the EE perspective it's sudden and it raises some eyebrows and of course some (let me just call it) 'envy'..

I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is..

RavaTroll · 2015-06-10 08:28:45

Well, EE guardians and devs will always cause envy because of what happened. Even though I think that it was a good thing to make the current dev team devs, I think it'll always feel that it was players who got picked and everybody in game will ask themselves "why wasn't I picked ? I'm good at X !"
It's the same for Guardians.

I'd say it's all amplified because it was really sudden, and because of that you'll get "agressive reactions".
Oh, and you've joined a game that had terrible devs after terrible devs so... Suspicious players

EDIT : Not to mention lots of players are kids so reactions are different from the ones you'd get from adults.

TheSource85, Onjit

mrjawapa · 2015-06-10 15:49:51

RavaTroll wrote:

Well, EE guardians and devs will always cause envy because of what happened. Even though I think that it was a good thing to make the current dev team devs, I think it'll always feel that it was players who got picked and everybody in game will ask themselves "why wasn't I picked ? I'm good at X !"
It's the same for Guardians.

I want to add to this: a lot of people think they have to be a staff member to help the game. So many people ask to be a guardian/mod because they can make graphics, or have ideas... just give them to us. Make a forum topic and share them, we will view them and go from there.

RavaTroll wrote:

I'd say it's all amplified because it was really sudden, and because of that you'll get "agressive reactions".
Oh, and you've joined a game that had terrible devs after terrible devs so... Suspicious players

I hope we're doing better Judging from the all the comments in the survey, it appears we are.

RavaTroll wrote:

EDIT : Not to mention lots of players are kids so reactions are different from the ones you'd get from adults.

Idk, I've seen some really childish adults on this game.

TheSource85, Insanity

RavaTroll · 2015-06-10 17:33:20

JaWapa wrote:

I hope we're doing better Judging from the all the comments in the survey, it appears we are.

Great news

JaWapa wrote:

Idk, I've seen some really childish adults on this game.

Yes, but it's more common to be childish when you're a child xD

TheSource85

BEE · 2015-06-11 00:24:25

TheSource85 wrote:

BEE wrote:
insert quote of quote here
I agree on most of what you say, but don't forget: A guardian is not some person with lots ans lots of power and he/she is also just a volunteer. I do not get payed.
Only thing (in game that is) what I can do extra is kick people out.. I don't have edit rights or anything like that.
So the whole guardian thing isn't such a big change (or a big deal)..
But you're right.. From the EE perspective it's sudden and it raises some eyebrows and of course some (let me just call it) 'envy'..
I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is..

Thank you for your response, it was very empathetic and understanding of where we as a community are coming from.

By the way, I am aware of what the position is supposed to entail, but am also well aware that that is not always the case. There are some guardians that do way more than "just kick people out" and there are people that work on the game that are not even official members of the team. This however, is a completely separate problem than you being given guardianship: the lack of communication. Or perhaps it is the same problem... Actually, now that I think about it, it is a bit amusing..

But anyways, my own skepticism over the situation was assuaged when you started posting on the forums. I've played games where someone was made a moderator of some sort and then never talked or interacted with the community, and in some ways seemed to never play the game either..

So tell us, Source, are you a builder or a player? An artist or a minimaker? What is your favorite level? Let's get to know you more.

TheSource85

Insanity · 2015-06-11 00:26:31

Yo this guy earned my trust with his South Park Forum Avatar.

Work it bro

TheSource85, Pingohits, Different55

Calicara · 2015-06-11 02:04:41

I don't want to beat around the bush, so I'm just going to be blunt.

@Thesource85:

Even though many from the forums are trying to look at this from a 'mature' perspective, I am still skeptical and displeased with this sudden change in guardianship. It's nothing personal, but from your posts I can tell not only was this a controversial move, even among the mods, but also a very naive one at that. Granted you've worked with chat servers in the past, your experience alone does not make you fit for the job.

First of all you've said,

TheSource85 wrote:

Thing is, I kind of grew out of it [working in chat servers], making my career and mostly putting energy in my musical instruments (and also archery)....
Do I have lots of free time? No not really, but I do have 2 or 3 nights a week in which I can have a good time and make myself usefull..

You also said:

TheSource85 wrote:

[In regards to EE] I actually played it a couple of years ago. But I haven't been around much..

So it's fine that you have a life outside of EE, and in fact it's probably better that you do. So what reason is there for you to step in and be a moderator at all? Furthermore, while it is possible for you to learn the system of EE, I'd feel much more comfortable with a guardian who already has intimate knowledge of EE and it's community. It's nothing against you personally, but I don't feel like you are the best fit for this job. Many other users also posted about 'skepticism', but it isn't skepticism it's common sense. Why promote someone to the front of the line who's only a rookie?

Also,

TheSource85 wrote:

To be honest, some team members were not so happy about my sudden joining... I won't be explaining those reasons here, that's staff business..

I don't know how the EE staff is being run, but I hardly think it's fair to promote a new guardian if the selection is not agreed upon unanimously, and as I have already said, you have little qualification in the EE community to even be promoted to such a role in the first place.

Though that thing that really got me going is,

TheSource85 wrote:

But you're right.. From the EE perspective it's sudden and it raises some eyebrows and of course some (let me just call it) 'envy'.

Which just shows you really don't understand. People aren't jealous, they're upset that when it comes to the moderation, instead of choosing people who are actually qualified, a new guardian was added based on favoritism of the owner of the game. And maybe you are a nice guy, and maybe you have some experience in other games from the past, but you have little experience with EE, and as you have said little free time to learn it. It's like you have no idea of the situation you are walking in to. I think the job would be better left to a community role model like Bee, or another long time player who knows their way around EE. Although really as I've said from the start, I don't even see why we needed another guardian at all. There are more than enough mods/devs in the game already. Unless we get a sudden burst of players, I don't see any benefit to having you as guardian.

I know my opinion is harsh, but I just want to out there. Surely I am not the only one who feels this way, and I won't be afraid to speak my mind.

Norwee, BEE, Thegame, Nou, Zumza, skullz17

Pyromaniac · 2015-06-11 03:07:03

Calicara wrote:

Which just shows you really don't understand. People aren't jealous, they're upset that when it comes to the moderation, instead of choosing people who are actually qualified, a new guardian was added based on favoritism of the owner of the game.

After seeing some of his posts in the other thread, I think this point is particularly important. If people question this decision, it generally will not be out of spite or 'envy', but out of concern. So its frustrating when any opinions people voice are dismissed as jealousy, or attempts to escalate he situation. This is a forum, and that means that this is a place for discussion. So....discuss, not dismiss.

EDIT: For the most part I appreciate how you are communicating with the community through the forums, and I think you've done a pretty good job of explaining the situation (Aside from communication issues I talked about before). I just noticed some posts (particularly the one in response to Calicara in the other thread) that were a little sassy and made me worry a little bit.

tak4n · 2015-06-11 03:12:43

I do admit BEE would probably make a way better guardian

Different55, Pyromaniac, Xfrogman43

TheSource85 · 2015-06-11 08:43:36

Hi everyone,

Yet another reply from me.. I won't be quoting because I get what you're saying (I really do )..

First of all: Yes, me being a rookie to the actual game is true, though I have played many (and I mean MANY) games.
One of them is the all-holy (at least.. that's what microsoft wants you to believe) Minecraft.
I've owned (and still do own) servers of my own (mostly bukkit).. And I don't mean that I hired a pre-installed server and played the game.. No, I have my own online server in which I actually had to set up everything from scratch.. Just an empty linux server on which I had to install everything from minecraft server to a good server management interface and even a website which interacts with the game.. Let's just say.. I know my stuff, and I had little help.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm only a 'rookie' because I've not logged any hours in this game, but that does not mean that I don't know the game..
Perhaps I will have to build a minigame map or something to proove that? (sounds like fun!)

Also yes: Communication around me was not the way it was supposed to be.. This is still something I will try to improve..
I have to add to that: We have our own staff discussion thing in which we do talk to each other (a lot)..
I'm not sure how that was before my joining the team though, but from the moment I joined, it feels very alive

So... Am I a builder or a player? An artist or a minimaker? What is my favorite level?
1: For the moment a player, but I am looking around and thinking of an idea to build a large level with minigames (that's what I like)
2: Haha, I hope an artist, but I'm thinking of a minigame level so... perhaps a combo?
3: I don't have a favorite level yet, but I really enjoyed the 200 minigames map.
(so what do I like? .... Puppies!)

Thing is, (and I hope that people will stop discussing about this) I use the word 'envy' because I see (repeatedly) that people say "I would make a better guardian" of "I have more right" (not in those exact words)..
Yes, some people actually look at it maturely and are absolutely correct in that it's been bad communication and that nobody releally knows me..
On the other hand: Most (yes, Most) people I see in-game go more towards the envy side (and I do mean envy, not jealousy.. there is a difference).. They think that they would make a better guardian because the've logged more hours and built more levels.. I don't see 'building stuff' as a basis for someone to enforce policy.. Yes, there are definitly good players who know how to do this (perhaps a lot better then me), but don't forget that most players here know eachother and there are always friends vs. foe situations..
On my chatservers I also only accepted staff members that could seperate feeling from policy. So even though someone is your best friend or worst foe: Don't let them mess with policy..
That's what I call being neutral.
Besides that.. Enforcing policy is just a little extra.. I'm really sure that communication (in and around the game) is something you all wish to improve.. That is where I will try to be useful.

I would ask: Give me a chance and some time If I fail, I fail.. (don't count in the nubness )

Pyromaniac, N1KF

Zumza · 2015-06-11 12:36:37

TheSource85 wrote:

Thing is, (and I hope that people will stop discussing about this) I use the word 'envy' because I see (repeatedly) that people say "I would make a better guardian" of "I have more right" (not in those exact words)..
Yes, some people actually look at it maturely and are absolutely correct in that it's been bad communication and that nobody releally knows me..
On the other hand: Most (yes, Most) people I see in-game go more towards the envy side (and I do mean envy, not jealousy.. there is a difference).. They think that they would make a better guardian because the've logged more hours and built more levels.. I don't see 'building stuff' as a basis for someone to enforce policy.. Yes, there are definitly good players who know how to do this (perhaps a lot better then me), but don't forget that most players here know eachother and there are always friends vs. foe situations..
On my chatservers I also only accepted staff members that could seperate feeling from policy. So even though someone is your best friend or worst foe: Don't let them mess with policy..
That's what I call being neutral.
Besides that.. Enforcing policy is just a little extra..

So if I understand this right: If you don't have friends you apply policy better? Oh so NVD was made moderator because he can't be guardian because, well you know better... NVD chosen you, couldn't he chose somebody else? This is probably because he has trust in you. NVD wants this game to don't crush as administration again. Which I respect. But saying that somebody is 'envy' on that is rude. Its like saying that community doesn't have NVD's trust.
You're talking like a politician, not like a mediator. If somebody reads your posts then he clearly see you're contradict with yourself.

TheSource85 · 2015-06-11 15:00:55

Zumza wrote:

TheSource85 wrote:
Thing is, (and I hope that people will stop discussing about this) I use the word 'envy' because I see (repeatedly) that people say "I would make a better guardian" of "I have more right" (not in those exact words)..
Yes, some people actually look at it maturely and are absolutely correct in that it's been bad communication and that nobody releally knows me..
On the other hand: Most (yes, Most) people I see in-game go more towards the envy side (and I do mean envy, not jealousy.. there is a difference).. They think that they would make a better guardian because the've logged more hours and built more levels.. I don't see 'building stuff' as a basis for someone to enforce policy.. Yes, there are definitly good players who know how to do this (perhaps a lot better then me), but don't forget that most players here know eachother and there are always friends vs. foe situations..
On my chatservers I also only accepted staff members that could seperate feeling from policy. So even though someone is your best friend or worst foe: Don't let them mess with policy..
That's what I call being neutral.
Besides that.. Enforcing policy is just a little extra..
So if I understand this right: If you don't have friends you apply policy better? Oh so NVD was made moderator because he can't be guardian because, well you know better... NVD chosen you, couldn't he chose somebody else? This is probably because he has trust in you. NVD wants this game to don't crush as administration again. Which I respect. But saying that somebody is 'envy' on that is rude. Its like saying that community doesn't have NVD's trust.
You're talking like a politician, not like a mediator. If somebody reads your posts then he clearly see you're contradict with yourself.

Look, you don't really know me, and I've tried to make clear that I'm just here to help out.. If what I say makes you jump to conclusions which support your own version of what's going on, then I really recommend to stop and take another look with a neutral mind.
I'm not saying that my situation is holy or applies to everything or anything. I just know it works with a lot of things, so that's my standpoint. It doesn't make me or you right or wrong, it's just as a manner of reference to past successes on my behalf..
I talk like a politician? Well, maybe I do, at least I'm not biased to any opinion. I would like people to see me as a mediator, but so far I haven't had the chance really, also because my time is spent dealing with the diverse reactions and the incorrect conclusions some people are stating.
It's like a bunch of people decided to team-up against me and hanging tons and tons of weight on misinterpreting my words as badly as possible.. Why.. Well, because they can and because they probably are concerned.

For the group of people I put in the 'envy' category I can say only this: While I do think there is concern amongst you, I don't think it's fair to lable me before anyone really got to know me, especially when you also say that I don't have the right (or something like that) to be guardian.. This is just the way it is, please try to respect that.
I mean, if I really was untrustworthy, why would nvd accept me into the team? (don't start about family, because there are family members that even he or I wouldn't trust)..
We know each other very well and I have no interest what so ever to destroy anything, whatever rights I might have been given..

Besides that, I made a very clear choice on addressing your concerns, rather than to lash out to anyone who's now lashing out to me.. For me, I don't see any of your concerns as a personal attack, I honestly respect and understand that, really I do.. It's more that I feel like I want you all to know how I deal with stuff.
And to be very clear: The community is important to me, that includes your opinions etc. even if the ones about me s*ck big time.. I'm sorry if anyone feels that way, but it's not my intention..

Let me just have fun in the game, like everyone, and let things just play out.. It will be fine

Pyromaniac

Insanity · 2015-06-11 15:04:31

I don't understand why anyone is giving this guy a hard time. The staff behind this game isn't in charge of running a massive corporation with a huge selection process, and a board of executives and such etc.

It's a flash game with a relatively small knit and close community with a few admins and mods. It really doesn't matter if it comes as a surprise that someone new is working with one of the admins to make this game better. Stop pestering this guy to write these massive responses to your stupidass questions.

And you guys bring up qualification as an issue? It's a game where half the community is 12 years old. The job of "moderating" or "stopping trolls" or even basic coding can be done by more or less anyone with a basic understanding of how the game works and a decent maturity level.

TheSource85, Miasmic, Pyromaniac, N1KF, Priddle

TheSource85 · 2015-06-11 15:10:07

Insanity wrote:

I don't understand why anyone is giving this guy a hard time. The staff behind this game isn't in charge of running a massive corporation with a huge selection process, and a board of executives and such etc.
It's a flash game with a relatively small knit and close community with a few admins and mods. It really doesn't matter if it comes as a surprise that someone new is working with one of the admins to make this game better. Stop pestering this guy to write these massive responses to your stupidass questions.

And you guys bring up qualification as an issue? It's a game where half the community is 12 years old. The job of "moderating" or "stopping trolls" or even basic coding can be done by more or less anyone with a basic understanding of how the game works and a decent maturity level.

Heads up and uber-woot for mature open-mindedness

Insanity

Zumza · 2015-06-11 15:30:05

People will know you as how you talk.
As I said, I don't think NVD had put here without having a big trust in you, without being a nice guy, without being a good guardian.
But you can't continue saying that we don't know at least a little about you. You already have 15 posts.
Indeed nobody can knows exactly how a men is. Not even himself.
And what I can see you treat as asame. You don't know us either!

TheSource85

TheSource85 · 2015-06-11 15:48:15

Zumza wrote:

People will know you as how you talk.
As I said, I don't think NVD had put here without having a big trust in you, without being a nice guy, without being a good guardian.
But you can't continue saying that we don't know at least a little about you. You already have 15 posts.
Indeed nobody can knows exactly how a men is. Not even himself.
And what I can see you treat as asame. You don't know us either!

That is absolutely true and very important, so that's my first goal..
Just to get to know everyone and see what's going on

Zumza

Priddle · 2015-06-12 16:39:16

Tomkazaz wrote:

The corruption is strong with this one..
Also, NVD is NOT 15... He's around 24 and this is his Instagram profile (registered on his true email adress).
Sorry if someone mentioned this already.. I'm not updated.

Uh, I do not have an Instagram account

2015-06-12 16:40:30

Nvd wrote:

Tomkazaz wrote:
The corruption is strong with this one..
Also, NVD is NOT 15... He's around 24 and this is his Instagram profile (registered on his true email adress).
Sorry if someone mentioned this already.. I'm not updated.
Uh, I do not have an Instagram account

@Tomakaaz Dude... You just got pwned...

TheSource85 · 2015-06-12 21:36:02

Nvd wrote:

Tomkazaz wrote:
The corruption is strong with this one..
Also, NVD is NOT 15... He's around 24 and this is his Instagram profile (registered on his true email adress).
Sorry if someone mentioned this already.. I'm not updated.
Uh, I do not have an Instagram account

I can confirm nvd is definitly not 24 He's 15 - deal with it

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