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Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

I hereby declare that no one may speak of physics unless they have started at least a bachelor's degree in it.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Well, the idea of teleportation was brought up, but the person didn't know that stuff, so I told them :/

TheGreenTroll

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

I hereby declare that no one may speak of physics unless they have started at least a bachelor's degree in it.

I've got a masters degree in physics.

Last edited by TheGreenTroll (Dec 3 2011 5:36:37 pm)

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

The jet stream/wind would push you...

TheGreenTroll

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Well, the idea of teleportation was brought up, but the person didn't know that stuff, so I told them :/

Please, do provide a link claiming that we've "teleported" a proton before.   Also, define teleport to me.   You can tell me how quantum physics is teleporting, too.

Last edited by Twipply (Dec 3 2011 6:11:24 pm)

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Well, basically, quantum physics is teleporting because when electrons orbit an atom, they jump from one orbit to another without traveling in-between. It's called a quantum leap.

Let's say this O is an atom, and the x that surrounds it is an electron...

O l     l     l     lx

The l's are the possible orbits, and that electron can just go like this:

O lx   l     l   l

Without traveling the difference in between.

Teleporting: The use of quantum leaps to go from one place to another without traveling anywhere in between.

That teleporting of protons thing was off the coast of Africa between two islands, let me find a link...

Found one

It's not the Africa one, but it does state that China has teleported protons before.

And the Africa one was much longer, around 400 miles. I think.

Ratburntro44

Member

Joined: 1970-01-01

Posts: 1,383

Website

Re: Confusing things.

In response to an earlier post, I would like to point out that FTL speeds are possible, but not of information.

Example 1: Two spaceships are traveling away from each other at 0.6c. The distance between them is increasing faster than the speed of light, but that is just a useless figure, not information transfer.

Example 2:You shine a laser on a very distant planet. You then quickly move it. The distance that the spot on the planet moves could be well above light speed, but as the actual information is the light, which is not traveling faster than light, and the spot is not actually an "object" or information. Therefore, not being information, it can be above the speed of light.

This doesn't really help anyone, but it is true.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Example 1: That i the distance between them changing, not the speed

Example 2: That isthe speed of light. It is light.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Well, basically, quantum physics is teleporting because when electrons orbit an atom, they jump from one orbit to another without traveling in-between. It's called a quantum leap.

Let's say this O is an atom, and the x that surrounds it is an electron...

O l     l     l     lx

The l's are the possible orbits, and that electron can just go like this:

O lx   l     l   l

Without traveling the difference in between.

While I understand what you're saying here, I'm not sure it's right.   It seems that you're going from the Bohr model of the atom, which does not accurately reflect reality.   With this model, I don't think what you said is true.

Teleporting: The use of quantum leaps to go from one place to another without traveling anywhere in between.

That teleporting of protons thing was off the coast of Africa between two islands, let me find a link...

Found one

It's not the Africa one, but it does state that China has teleported protons before.

And the Africa one was much longer, around 400 miles. I think.

Note that your article actually speaks of information being passed between the two protons, not one proton being in a location and then appearing elsewhere.

Last edited by Twipply (Dec 3 2011 7:18:35 pm)

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

Well, basically, quantum physics is teleporting because when electrons orbit an atom, they jump from one orbit to another without traveling in-between. It's called a quantum leap.

Let's say this O is an atom, and the x that surrounds it is an electron...

O l     l     l     lx

The l's are the possible orbits, and that electron can just go like this:

O lx   l     l   l

Without traveling the difference in between.

While I understand what you're saying here, I'm not sure it's right.   It seems that you're going from the Bohr model of the atom, which does not accurately reflect reality.   With this model, I don't think what you said is true.

Teleporting: The use of quantum leaps to go from one place to another without traveling anywhere in between.

That teleporting of protons thing was off the coast of Africa between two islands, let me find a link...

Found one

It's not the Africa one, but it does state that China has teleported protons before.

And the Africa one was much longer, around 400 miles. I think.

Note that your article actually speaks of information being passed between the two protons, not one proton being in a location and then appearing elsewhere.

The Bohr model is correct, it even says so further down on that page...
Other quote: Exactly. It is the exact same information, therefore it is the exact same proton. As I said before, it just copies it and then replicates it.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

The Bohr model is correct, it even says so further down on that page...

The Bohr model is useful, for sure, but it's not an accurate representation of what actually happens.   You can see here that it has many shortcomings, has been refined, and even superseded by electron clouds.

Other quote: Exactly. It is the exact same information, therefore it is the exact same proton. As I said before, it just copies it and then replicates it.

I think what you actually said was that it goes "from one place to another without traveling anywhere in between."   This is clearly not what happens in your article.   The article only refers to 'quantum teleportation' instead of just 'teleportation' because they're different things.

Edit:
Oh, and if you actually look up quantum leaps then it says they aren't instantaneous anyway.   I think this rules out the teleportation between energy levels.

Last edited by Twipply (Dec 3 2011 7:43:36 pm)

MarkyShark50

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

its confusing if its moving but not if you pause it.:|

smiley time :O :/ :rolleyes:

Last edited by MarkyShark50 (Dec 3 2011 7:53:12 pm)

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

The Bohr model is correct, it even says so further down on that page...

The Bohr model is useful, for sure, but it's not an accurate representation of what actually happens.   You can see here that it has many shortcomings, has been refined, and even superseded by electron clouds.

Other quote: Exactly. It is the exact same information, therefore it is the exact same proton. As I said before, it just copies it and then replicates it.

I think what you actually said was that it goes "from one place to another without traveling anywhere in between."   This is clearly not what happens in your article.   The article only refers to 'quantum teleportation' instead of just 'teleportation' because they're different things.

Edit:
Oh, and if you actually look up quantum leaps then it says they aren't instantaneous anyway.   I think this rules out the teleportation between energy levels.

The information teleports, not the actual proton...

And I never said that Bohr was entirely correct on his own. That is why those refinements came about. Electron clouds have also not really superseded it, it is still around and after those refinements, correct.

Yes, quantum teleportation is different from teleportation, but they do the same exact thing, just in a different way. That is because teleportation other than that cannot exist.

As to it being instantaneous, just search this: "Are Quantum Leaps Instantaneous?" and you will see that they are. Wikipedia isn't always correct.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

The information teleports, not the actual proton...

Earlier you said, "We have teleported protons. Yes, real, little, protons. Teleported. By us."   This is different to what you're now saying.   Transferring information between two protons and moving a proton elsewhere without going through the space inbetween are different things.

And I never said that Bohr was entirely correct on his own. That is why those refinements came about. Electron clouds have also not really superseded it, it is still around and after those refinements, correct.

You said that the Bohr model was correct, not that it was partially correct.   I told you that the Bohr model was not an accurate representation of an atom, and this is true.   It has been superseded as the most accurate or accepted model of the real world.   It still exists and is taught because it is still of use, especially to those not yet ready for more accurate, more complex models.

Yes, quantum teleportation is different from teleportation, but they do the same exact thing, just in a different way. That is because teleportation other than that cannot exist.

Teleportation
Quantum teleportation
Having read both articles and looked up the definitions of the terms, it seems to me that they're not only different, but they do different things.

I'm going to have to read some stuff and talk to some people before I keep talking about electrons and how they exist, as it's a little out of my comfort zone.   But basically, I don't think how long an electron takes to change energy level really matters, because it doesn't exactly move through space or even have a fixed position like that to do so.

Ratburntro44

Member

Joined: 1970-01-01

Posts: 1,383

Website

Re: Confusing things.

Example 1: That i the distance between them changing, not the speed

Example 2: That isthe speed of light. It is light.

Do you not understand what I was saying? I was saying this stuff IS faster than the speed of light, but not information traveling. I specifically pointed out in my post that it was not actual information transfer. It is still above the speed of light.

As for example two, I was not talking about the speed at which the light approaches the planet. Reread my post.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

The information teleports, not the actual proton...

Earlier you said, "We have teleported protons. Yes, real, little, protons. Teleported. By us."   This is different to what you're now saying.   Transferring information between two protons and moving a proton elsewhere without going through the space inbetween are different things.

And I never said that Bohr was entirely correct on his own. That is why those refinements came about. Electron clouds have also not really superseded it, it is still around and after those refinements, correct.

You said that the Bohr model was correct, not that it was partially correct.   I told you that the Bohr model was not an accurate representation of an atom, and this is true.   It has been superseded as the most accurate or accepted model of the real world.   It still exists and is taught because it is still of use, especially to those not yet ready for more accurate, more complex models.

Yes, quantum teleportation is different from teleportation, but they do the same exact thing, just in a different way. That is because teleportation other than that cannot exist.

Teleportation
Quantum teleportation
Having read both articles and looked up the definitions of the terms, it seems to me that they're not only different, but they do different things.

I'm going to have to read some stuff and talk to some people before I keep talking about electrons and how they exist, as it's a little out of my comfort zone.   But basically, I don't think how long an electron takes to change energy level really matters, because it doesn't exactly move through space or even have a fixed position like that to do so.

@First Quote: No, they [basically] are the same thing. It has been determined by physicists everywhere that it is the same exact proton. Even if it was not moved, the information was moved, and that is quantum teleportation.

@Second quote: Very well, I did not know that. However, it is still highly accurate, even if it is not the most accurate.

@Third Quote: That is what I said. They accomplish the same task by doing different things.

Example 1: That i the distance between them changing, not the speed

Example 2: That isthe speed of light. It is light.

Do you not understand what I was saying? I was saying this stuff IS faster than the speed of light, but not information traveling. I specifically pointed out in my post that it was not actual information transfer. It is still above the speed of light.

As for example two, I was not talking about the speed at which the light approaches the planet. Reread my post.

@Response to example one: Ah, very well, I misunderstood you. My fault.

@Response to example two: Your post confused me on that one, you talked about how quickly the spot on the planet changed, which didn't make much sense. The light would continue hitting it until the light from after you changed it reached the planet, it would not move immediately.

Last edited by xputnameherex (Dec 4 2011 5:16:20 pm)

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Confusing things.

The most confusing that comes to mind would be how the Lituus spiral touches the center.

Last edited by Tako (Dec 4 2011 9:03:47 pm)

---

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Twipply

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

@First Quote: No, they [basically] are the same thing. It has been determined by physicists everywhere that it is the same exact proton. Even if it was not moved, the information was moved, and that is quantum teleportation.

Where did your [basically] just come from?   I can make a table and a chair the same thing if I go basic enough.   However, that doesn't make it true.   I'm still waiting for you to provide a source for that claim.

@Second quote: Very well, I did not know that. However, it is still highly accurate, even if it is not the most accurate.

I don't know about calling it highly accurate, but I do think that using a superior model explains away your idea of electron teleportation when changing energy states.

@Third Quote: That is what I said. They accomplish the same task by doing different things.

I think you misread.   I said that they do different things.

I talked to a physics undergraduate for a while today and yesterday, he seems to think that the proton and its information are the same thing.   So by sending the information of one proton from one place to another, you are infact sending the proton itself.   This to me however sounds exactly like teleportation, which the wikipedia page for quantum teleportation seems to specifically state that it is not.   Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to ask a physics professor about it.   But of course, if you ever actually provide a source for your claim, perhaps we can find out for ourselves.

xputnameherex

Guest

Re: Confusing things.

@First Quote: No, they [basically] are the same thing. It has been determined by physicists everywhere that it is the same exact proton. Even if it was not moved, the information was moved, and that is quantum teleportation.

Where did your [basically] just come from?   I can make a table and a chair the same thing if I go basic enough.   However, that doesn't make it true.   I'm still waiting for you to provide a source for that claim.

@Second quote: Very well, I did not know that. However, it is still highly accurate, even if it is not the most accurate.

I don't know about calling it highly accurate, but I do think that using a superior model explains away your idea of electron teleportation when changing energy states.

@Third Quote: That is what I said. They accomplish the same task by doing different things.

I think you misread.   I said that they do different things.

I talked to a physics undergraduate for a while today and yesterday, he seems to think that the proton and its information are the same thing.   So by sending the information of one proton from one place to another, you are infact sending the proton itself.   This to me however sounds exactly like teleportation, which the wikipedia page for quantum teleportation seems to specifically state that it is not.   Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to ask a physics professor about it.   But of course, if you ever actually provide a source for your claim, perhaps we can find out for ourselves.

@First quote: As you said in the last part underneath the third quote, as that undergraduate said, it is the same thing. So there. Refer below for thing on source...

@Second quote: The superior model says the same thing, just in a different way.

@Third quote: As the undergraduate and I said, it is the proton being teleported.

And I would try to find a source, but if you are going to talk to a professor about it, that would be even better. Try to get his real answer, not a modified one.