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Gikkle

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Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

what are common tactics traitors use to let their teammates find them?

i could imagine randomly voting a teammate, or talking about specific people more than others, etc

i’m looking through Shadow’s ISO trying to find those little hints but nothing is really popping out at me.

he did immediately townread Gandhi but honestly that doesn’t say a lot to me

has anyone else looked through shadow’s ISO for anything like this?

I did take a look, only thing I thought *maybe* was a hint was the 2 informed mafia thing? Like if he didn't know about Norwee's message in the signups thread (which it seems he didn't), then that may have been his attempt at going "yo, look at me, I have TMI about the number of scum, I'm your buddy!"

It's also possible that the MM mafia visit thing was his way of dropping a hint? Because if mafia didn't visit MM, then they'd know Shadow was lying, and obviously town wouldn't lie, so Shadows would be seen as a traitor at that point.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

what are common tactics traitors use to let their teammates find them?

i could imagine randomly voting a teammate, or talking about specific people more than others, etc

I don't play with traitors much. And most I've played with didn't know their mafia buddies - usually it's the other way around, where the mafia know the traitor, but the traitor doesn't know the mafia. The only signalling I can distinctly remember is one traitor spelling out "traitor" with the first letter of each of their posts.

Though I imagine random voting traitor buddies wouldn't be the *top* pick (since that's too easy to pick up on as town). Maybe talking more about specific people than others - that's possible.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Everyone remember to place your vote within the next 11 hours, if you're not going to be free at EoD.

I'll most likely be free at EoD so I'll place my final vote then.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I'm trying so hard to townread MM but his tone is just so scummy
Like I've played multiple games with MM and this tone just feels so fake compared to other games
Plus I can't help but feel like he's just pushing an agenda whenever he pushes people. Elijah and now Oliver... None of it feels like he's actually trying to solve the slots. Like looking back at the Elijah interaction, MM actually makes very few posts in direct conversation with Elijah (which I would expect if he was honestly trying to solve Elijah). It felt more like MM was feeling out Elijah, seeing if he was a viable push, and when finding out Elijah would drag MM down with him, abandoned the push. His Oliver push feels like he's just doing it because it's convenient for him.

Idk. If I'm wrong again and Gandhi is scum, that would make two times this game where I come to the wrong conclusion after sleeping.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I think Elijah investigated Minimania, then tried to go unnoticed by saying "99% town" so that scum would not discover his role, so I am convinced that minimania is town.

MM and BB... accused by Elijah are suspects but as there is no cop confirmation I will go for Gandhi. Looking at their ISO, I noticed that there are very few posts that actually try to solve...

!Vote Nuclear Gandhi

I'll try to check before the end of the day if something important happens.

I note that Grilyon has taken MM's side (who I don't think Grilyon has mentioned his read on) instead of the side of his top town read (Gandhi)

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!Vote Marshmallow Marshall

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

First of all - sorry, MM.

Secondly - If Grilyon dying was the result of some kind of bus driver or vigilante kill (and perhaps the mafia kill got blocked), claiming that fact would be greatly appreciated. There is important night kill analysis to be made here if Grilyon was the intended mafia kill.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

and if you are going to lynch me, for the love of God, trust my read on Minimania and leave them alone. he is THE ONLY person all game who did anything that alignment indicative, please don't usher them out the door.

If you say something like this as a cop and didn't check that person then idk what you're doing

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Gikkle, are you pro-NoLynch? I don't understand why are you blaming people for choosing to switch over to Allen on Day1 instead of having a NoLynch day. It seems a little insincere tbh. I don't believe you'd rather NoLynch than lynch a slot that gave half the players bad vibes in our places yourself.

You townread Allen. And there were two viable alternatives at the time, so it was not a certainty that a no lynch would have occurred if Allen wasn't lynched.

We were absolutely sinking D2 and mafia just had to sit there and watch, but Gikkle picked up the reigns, activated the town, and lead to a scum chop.

hey give me and elijah some credit here

Gikkle just seemed to kind of follow along on D2? not really sure how you see that as "picked up the reigns" and "activated the town"

Yeah idk why people are saying I'm leading the town.
I've just been trying to solve, not lead lynches

Though I definitely wasn't "following along". My suspicions of Shadows came before you even mentioned anything (didn't explicitly mention it until afterwards I guess but you can see my questions were leading in that direction), and while Elijah had said something, it wasn't like a big push like you did.

First of all - sorry, MM.

Secondly - If Grilyon dying was the result of some kind of bus driver or vigilante kill (and perhaps the mafia kill got blocked), claiming that fact would be greatly appreciated. There is important night kill analysis to be made here if Grilyon was the intended mafia kill.

can you say what you got from the nightkill

I have my conclusions - or the beginnings to some, rather - but I would like to hear what other people think the kill means first. Just so my thoughts don't influence others.

Just wanna say - pretty much anytime a kill makes someone say "interesting kill",  there's always really important analysis that can be done with it. Doesn't mean people are always correct with their analysis of the kill, but it's an important data point.

anyway, good morning everyone

i received a fruit (:

it's not BB as well

i think it's somehow one of Gikkle or Oli, or fruit vendor is lying for some reason

I'm not the fruit vendor.

Though I don't think you should be trying to find the fruit vendor - the less knowledge the mafia have of any potential remaining town roles, the better.

Gikkle seemed to sheep on D2 and D3. like i said, at first glance it looks like Gikkle is a strong town player, but to me it looks like a lot of what they say about the game is very mathematical almost. they're deducing the game based on hard logic, which is helpful sometimes, but this setup relies heavily on social deduction, and they don't seem to say any opinions until a wagon has already started.

on D2 they hopped on the Shadow wagon, and on D3 they at first said they found it hard to believe Elijah got a red check on Marshmallow, and then as soon as pressure started to be put on Marshmallow, Gikkle jumped on it as well

I don't understand your points wrt day 2. You realize it was essentially physically impossible for me to form any reads before that wagon formed, right? I subbed in, was reading up, questioned shadow (who just so happened to also be getting sussed by Elijah at the time), and by the time I had read enough to form solid reads, you had already begun pushing Shadows.

As for day 3 - I had made known my suspicion on MM from my very first initial reads list. Who was I sheeping here exactly?

I did say MM was unlikely to be the cop check. That didn't make them not scum in my eyes.

i think we're making a lot of assumptions about how normal this setup really is

all we've seen is vanilla townies die

but considering we have a traitor watcher, neighbors, and a miller, there's gotta be some weird stuff going on. a mafia fruit vendor does not sound very farfetched to me at all

You listed three completely normal things and are acting like the setup has to besomething weird? Idk what mind of setups you guys have here but that's very typical.

What I would expect from the wolf team is two of the following role types:

Invest (role cop/Neapolitan)
Deceptive (Tailor/Godfather)
Manipulative (Bus Driver/Roleblocker)

Unless mafia have two abilities, I highly doubt one of the only 2 mafia is a literal fruit vendor (I also doubt mafia neighborizer but it's more likely than a mafia fruit vendor)
We know mafia probably have an invest bc they got Elijah, who mafia shouldn't have had a great reason to kill (unless it's 2b, who Elijah suspected, but that's unlikely bc she claimed neighborizer)
We can also reason that with an infinite shot cop, and with a miller in the  game (assuming pqwerty is telling the truth), odds are mafia has a tailor/godfather. 

What would line up pretty perfectly with a fruit vendor and an infinite shot cop is a bus driver, though. Fruit vendor being a role meant to counter the bus driver, and bus driver being there to counter the cop.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I think there's a mafia fruit vendor. MM said they got a fruit N1 and Shadow allegedly watched someone target MM. If the fruit vendor was town aligned, then why didn't ShadowsEdge just claim watcher and say who visited MM? I think they might've been protecting a partner. But also Shadow immediately said that the person who visited MM was mafia. Most importantly, though, is that nobody wants to claim vendor when it's basically a named townie. You'd think with a miller, neighborizer, and cop-clear already outed that a fruit vendor would just be one more extra town that has no fear of being killed because there's potentially 3 people ahead of them and only 3 days maximum left in the game.

So, BB and 2B are not vendors because they received fruit. I'm town and so is Mini. That leaves Gikkle, Gandhi, and Oliver as the potential mafia fruit vendor. The only person who was active all 3 nights was Gandhi, but maybe the fruit was given randomly if no person was selected.

This has several issues

If the fruit vendor was town aligned, then why didn't ShadowsEdge just claim watcher and say who visited MM? I think they might've been protecting a partner.

There is absolutely no good reason for Shadows to actually tell the truth about mafia visiting MM *at all*. Two big reasons:

1. I think he was using that claim to signal to his partners (if he was telling the truth mafia might think he was actually town)
2. The possibility of a tracker, however slim, would disincentivize being truthful about this at all.

Most importantly, though, is that nobody wants to claim vendor when it's basically a named townie. You'd think with a miller, neighborizer, and cop-clear already outed that a fruit vendor would just be one more extra town that has no fear of being killed because there's potentially 3 people ahead of them and only 3 days maximum left in the game.

I- what
Not trying to be rude, but I'd like you to think about what you're saying here for a couple of seconds. Read it out to yourself or something.

So, BB and 2B are not vendors because they received fruit. I'm town and so is Mini. That leaves Gikkle, Gandhi, and Oliver as the potential mafia fruit vendor. The only person who was active all 3 nights was Gandhi, but maybe the fruit was given randomly if no person was selected.

If the fruit vendor was determined to lie there's no reason to not sell the lie even further by not giving out a fruit and just claiming to have received one themselves.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I townlean Gikkle but I don't think Oli is even remotely as clear as him, I think it's bizarre he's on the assume list, especially after yesterday

I suppose me having a lot of experience with Oliver would probably make my read on him seem bizarre to others.

Idk, the whole thing with him flat out refusing to interact with MM rubs me the wrong way, and his post earlier today sucks

Oliver is always scummy if you don't know him. He acts strangely even as town.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Dumb question, but how does claiming an obvious fake role signal to the mafia that you're the traitor?

Because town wouldn't lie about someone being confirmed town in that situation.

Also I don't understand your point as to why the fruit vendor wouldn't claim if they were town.

What does mafia fruit vendor have to gain from, according to your own words, not becoming a named townie? Any reason for why you think a town fruit vendor should claim in this situation would also be a reason a mafia fruit vendor would claim.

Mafia does not benefit from hiding a fruit vendor claim in a situation like this. There are numerous reasons a townie might hide it, though.

Finally, isn't it a general rule of thumb that if you want to balance a setup you have majority VTs (in this case 7) before putting in any PRs? That leaves 3 mafia and 3 town PRs. We already have Miller, Neighborizer, and Cop as most likely town PRs, so idk if there's room for a 4th town PR. Unless 2B is a mafia Neighborizer or I'm somehow a mafia miller who shows up as mafia when inspected.

I think that sort of depends on the strength of the town PRs and the mafia PRs. Town Miller, Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, and Cop wouldn't be unbalanced to have on a town team (the only strong role there is an infinite shot cop, but I suspect mafia has a way to counter it).

Watcher has more utility for mafia if there is a town fruit vendor, as well. Otherwise they might as well have a tracker.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 95#p795495
Grilyon nka

What?

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

From today.

1. I think he was using that claim to signal to his partners (if he was telling the truth mafia might think he was actually town)

From D2

After sleeping, I sort of feel like Shadows is just being confusing instead of necessarily scum aligned. I've seen too many players like him and rarely do I get the satisfaction of them flipping scum.

Assuming he *is* town, that means mafia visited MM n1. My guess is Roleblocker, Neopolitan, Motion Detector, or some other kind of PR Hunting/Manipulating role. I can’t think of many roles in a lower power role list like this that would visit a fellow mafia? If town had a lot of KP they could have a rolestopper or bus driver. If town had a lot of invests it could be a tailor. I don't think either of those are true though.

Thus MM is likely not mafia (could be the traitor)? If shadows is town. Which I'm beginning to view as the case.

!vote minimania

When did you start believing that Shadow was signaling to his mafia teammates?

After he flipped traitor and I started thinking about how he would be signalling to his partners.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Sorry for not being here. Have been pre-occupied by other things.

Since no one is claiming to have redirected Grilyon, I can only assume that was the intended kill. In the case that it was the intended kill, then I think that a mafia most probably resides between two individuals.

The kill must come from someone who was not concerned about Mini's cop clear (as Grilyon was not a threat by any standards, no offense to Grilyon). This must mean that either Mini themselves is mafia - or mafia believed they could ruin Mini's credibility somehow. The only individual we have seen trying to do the latter is Gandhi, at the start of today. Everyone else - and I have checked - has given Mini credit for being cop checked. Oliver said to protect them, Pqwerty said they were town bc cop check (and they continued to defend this fact today), 2b said they were town bc cop check, and Buzzer said they were town bc cop check. The only person that could think they could take down Mini's credibility (without looking contradictory to their publicly stated reads) is Gandhi.

But then - if Gandhi was just trying to ruin Mini's credibility, why kill Grilyon specifically, someone who I publicly said I would suspect if MM flipped town? Why not Pqwerty, myself, buzzer, or 2b? All would be reasonable candidates. Unless, of course, there's benefit to keeping all of the aforementioned individuals alive. Well, if the intention was to put suspicion on Mini, leaving me alive makes sense - I'm the only one that has demonstrated concern about a Godfather.

But what about the other three? Pqwerty was fairly consensus yesterday. Buzzer and 2b had a fair amount of TRs. All of them are seemingly capable. All of them, as far as I understand, were inclined to go after Gandhi today.

Well, to answer that question, we need to look for Gandhi's team mate.

Oliver? Killing Grilyon would only back Gandhi and Oliver into a corner, since Grilyon was sort of a blank slate that could very easily be pushed. In this case - keeping me alive is great because I was defending Oliver. Buzzer suspected both of them though, so why not Buzzer? Pqwerty and 2b also could have been killed. The only thing that makes this a potential candidate is that I don't think either Oliver or Gandhi were paying very much attention to the thread, so they may not have noticed that Grilyon was indeed a potential lynch target, and they may have thought he was still pretty much untouchable.
Pqwerty? He had Buzzer as part of his PoE, and he probably wouldn't want to kill his neighborhood partner. So by process of elimination, Grilyon is just the only valid kill option.
2b? Killing Grilyon makes no sense, as I had said there were 2 scum in Grilyon/2b/Gandhi if Marshmallow was town, so killing Grilyon just makes their position worse. The only way this makes sense is if they were betting on this kill creating enough confusion so as to save both of them. But that seems like such a ridiculous play that would rarely ever work, and I find it hard to believe this team would kill Grilyon over literally anyone else.
Buzzer? Pqwerty would be a good kill as he suspected that the final remaining wolves would be 2 of Gandhi/BB/MM, and MM flipping town should have made Pqwerty a now concerning slot - especially since it would be hard to mislynch him. 2b would be a fairly solid kill choice, as well. It makes no sense for Buzzer to kill Grilyon here.

So only Pqwerty and Oliver make sense as Gandhi's partners - but an Oliver team requires him not reading the thread and seeing that Grilyon is suspected by some. Buzzer and 2b would most likely want to kill one of Pqwerty, Buzzer, or 2b.

If Minimania is scum, he clearly killed Grilyon to avoid NKA. By killing Grilyon, he confuses everyone - no one is then able to ask the question "Why is Minimania alive", because *obviously* mafia is just doing weird kills. And he would obviously not kill Oliver and Gandhi, because those are both easier to mislynch than Grilyon.

So - who would Minimania's partner be? Unfortunately, this kill doesn't help us determine who Mini's partner is - every team with Mini would prioritize Mini's town core status, so killing Grilyon could conceivably happen in each and every one.

Well, first thing to consider is the day 1 wagon, where both Pqwerty and Shadows nearly made Minimania the day 1 chop. This eliminates Pqwerty as a partner - I could see maybe one mafia busing, but S!Pqwerty AND Shadows? Highly unlikely. Additionally - Pqwerty and Minimania had an interesting interaction regarding 3p early day 1 that I don't see coming from two scum.

Oliver as Mini's partner is possible.

Gandhi as Mini's partner is something I could also see. Gandhi trying to ruin Mini's credibility today could be interpreted as distancing - Gandhi likely knew it wouldn't work, but it would solidify Mini's deepwolf position after he flips.

2b also voted mini day 1 with Shadows, so for a similar reason to Pqwerty, this is unlikely to be partnered with S!Minimania. Additionally - 2b was willing to try and divert to Minimania with me day 2. Now, the likelihood of that lynch happening was slim, so 2b COULD have seen that as a safe bet, buuut this combined with the fact 2b nearly helped get Mini killed day 1 is probably not partnered.

Buzzer and Mini are possible.

--

Let me just go through every potential team again, and sort them by likelihood as PAIRINGS (NOT individuals. This list does not take into account my individual reads on players. ) (ones higher up are more likely, ones lower are less likely).

PROBABLE -
Gandhi/Pqwerty - Kills Grilyon because Buzzer is someone Pqwerty wants to push, and 2b is in pqwerty's neighborhood. Thus, by process of elimination, Grilyon is the only target which allows Gandhi to frame Minimania.
Minimania/Gandhi - Kills Grilyon because it distracts from NKA. Gandhi attempts to distance from Minimania at the start of the day, knowing it would likely lead nowhere.
Minimania/Oliver - Kills Grilyon because it distracts from NKA.
Minimania/Buzzer  - Kills Grilyon because it distracts from NKA.

PLAUSIBLE -
Buzzer/2b -  One thing about these two that interests me is that Shadows was fairly focused on the idea there was a scum between these two specifically (he mentioned this day 1 AND day 2). I think they - especially Buzzer - are cunning enough, and in a good enough position thread wise (other people may be cunning but not all are in a good enough position to make certain risks), to go for a Grilyon kill purely for the chaotic effect. This is the *only* pair that doesn't include one of Gandhi/Mini that I think would have killed Grilyon.
Oliver/Gandhi - Could kill Grilyon if both of them weren't paying attention to the thread and they thought Grilyon was the most un-lynchable player in the game.

LESS POSSIBLE -
Gandhi/Buzzer - No reason to kill Grilyon over 2b or Pqwerty. Pqwerty suspected Gandhi/Buzzer yesterday, so that should have been this teams kill.
Gandhi/2b - No reason to kill Grilyon over Buzzer or Pqwerty. Killing Grilyon puts them in a bad position because both of these are PoE slots and all they are doing is making the PoE smaller.
Minimania/Pqwerty - Tried to get mini killed day 1. Mini had a not S/S interaction with Pqwerty day 1.
Minimania/2b - Tried to get mini killed day 1. Sort of tried to get him killed day 2.

UNLIKELY -
Oliver/Pqwerty - No incentive to kill Grilyon over Minimania.
2b/Pqwerty - No incentive to kill Grilyon over Minimania. Fake Neighborhood claim makes little sense.

VERY UNLIKELY -
Oliver/2b - No incentive to kill Grilyon over Minimania. Shadows listed these two in a list of three - usually, scum do not include more than one scum in a group of three, unless they are in anti-spew.
Buzzer/Pqwerty - No incentive to kill Grilyon over Minimania. Buzzer tried to discredit Pqwerty around the end of day 1 yesterday.
Oliver/Buzzer - No incentive to kill Grilyon over Minimania. Buzzer tried to discredit the "masonry" between me and Oliver. Shadows listed these two in a list of three - usually, scum do not include more than one scum in a group of three, unless they are in anti-spew.

--

This is the result of my night kill analysis. It isn't exactly what I expected when I started doing this, but unless mafia literally did RNG or something, I think the culprit for Grilyon's murder lies within the "plausible" or "probable" sections.

I also sort of TR Minimania? For reasons other than the cop check. I honestly think the likelihood of a tailor/Godfather IS pretty high in this setup, at least if the Miller claim is true, so I'm skeptical of clearing Mini *solely* off the cop check, but Mini was getting pushed by Shadows (to the point where he nearly was the d1 lynch) which is a good look for him. Could be busing, and Minimania has not been very helpful ever since he was cop cleared, but he is lean town rn.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

@Gikkle
Claim your role and all actions.

I'm the Town Nunya.

Gikkle

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Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I’ve been thinking about it today and I think Gikkle’s belief that Shadow was signaling comes from a place of TMI. Here’s why:

The whole point of a mafia signal is to tell a lie or something that only the mafia could figure out. Shadow said “MM is town because the mafia visited them N1”. We know MM was town and we know that the fruit vendor gave them fruit N1, so if this is a signal, the only lie Shadow can make is about the alignment of the fruit vendor. So, the truth should be that the fruit vendor is town.

In this case, it does work as a signal because the mafia know who they are and they know who they visited, so if they didn’t visit MM on N1 then they’d know Shadow is lying for no reason, which signals that they’re the traitor.

The problem is that there’s only 2 kinds of players that would know Shadow was lying in the first place to even know that it was a signal, and those people are the mafia and the fruit vendor. If Gikkle is the town fruit vendor, then he would absolutely have known that Shadow was lying when he said that the mafia visited MM, and as town he could’ve called Shadow out for lying. But instead he suddenly townreads Shadow. It reads to me more like a mafia who realized Shadow was the traitor and made a last ditch effort to save a partner.

I mean, did anyone else think Shadow was using their potentially fake night result to signal the mafia? Was anyone considering that or saw it in the realm of possibility before Gikkle pointed it out?

...what?

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

I’ve been thinking about it today and I think Gikkle’s belief that Shadow was signaling comes from a place of TMI. Here’s why:

The whole point of a mafia signal is to tell a lie or something that only the mafia could figure out. Shadow said “MM is town because the mafia visited them N1”. We know MM was town and we know that the fruit vendor gave them fruit N1, so if this is a signal, the only lie Shadow can make is about the alignment of the fruit vendor. So, the truth should be that the fruit vendor is town.

In this case, it does work as a signal because the mafia know who they are and they know who they visited, so if they didn’t visit MM on N1 then they’d know Shadow is lying for no reason, which signals that they’re the traitor.

The problem is that there’s only 2 kinds of players that would know Shadow was lying in the first place to even know that it was a signal, and those people are the mafia and the fruit vendor. If Gikkle is the town fruit vendor, then he would absolutely have known that Shadow was lying when he said that the mafia visited MM, and as town he could’ve called Shadow out for lying. But instead he suddenly townreads Shadow. It reads to me more like a mafia who realized Shadow was the traitor and made a last ditch effort to save a partner.

I mean, did anyone else think Shadow was using their potentially fake night result to signal the mafia? Was anyone considering that or saw it in the realm of possibility before Gikkle pointed it out?

...what?

I could give a proper response to this, but the logic is just so flabbergasting that idk what to say

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Ok uh, where does the logic fall apart here?

so if this is a signal, the only lie Shadow can make is about the alignment of the fruit vendor. So, the truth should be that the fruit vendor is town.

Shadow's lie likely had nothing to do with the fruit vendor. His lie would have achieved the same purpose - signalling mafia - if the fruit vendor hadn't visited MM at all. Though you are correct in that it has the side effect of implying the Fruit Vendor is town, because Shadows wouldn't be telling the truth there.

The problem is that there’s only 2 kinds of players that would know Shadow was lying in the first place to even know that it was a signal, and those people are the mafia and the fruit vendor. If Gikkle is the town fruit vendor, then he would absolutely have known that Shadow was lying when he said that the mafia visited MM, and as town he could’ve called Shadow out for lying. But instead he suddenly townreads Shadow. It reads to me more like a mafia who realized Shadow was the traitor and made a last ditch effort to save a partner.

This has two major issues

1. You assume, for whatever reason, that a normal townie couldn't come to the very simple conclusion that the flipped traitor was lying about his actions to signal to his partners.
2. You assume, for whatever reason, that the fruit vendor would have any clue that Shadows was lying. Assuming this is a traditional Fruit Vendor, they would have no idea what other players visited their target - so from the Fruit Vendor's PoV, Shadow's role could have just picked up any ol' mafia that visited Marshmallow.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

!vote Gikkle

I'm leaving this here for now

I find it hard to believe that you think I'm the *most likely scum* out of everyone in the game right now.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

[1] 2b55b5g: Nuclear Gandhi
[1] BuzzerBee: Oliwaz144
[1] Oliwaz144: Minimania

[4] Not voting: Gikkle, 2b55b5g, Pqwerty, BuzzerBee

4 majority votes to lock in the choice of elimination.

(Pqwerty is now voting me)

Our votes should not be this split
and is no one voting Gandhi?

!Vote Gandhi

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Nuclear Gandhi is polarized

And just in his town meta. Like, literal shield this slot all the way until F3 town meta. EZ read

...
frick

Gikkle

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Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Gikkle, if you had to consolidate the wagons down to two people, which to people would you put?

Gandhi and 2b I suppose.

Gikkle

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Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Idk I thought Shadow was just frantically trying to cover up their slip, so I don't think it's obvious or noticeable that Shadow was signaling.

Well I mean, it wasn't... But after he flipped traitor I looked back to see if he signaled at all, and that was one of my theories as to how he went about it.

Also I think it's odd that you changed your read after being so suspicious of Shadow

You don't think townies can change their reads? I explained my thought process at the time.

I will say - if I had figured out he was a traitor (in a S!me world), I would never have said ANYTHING to begin with. Me and 2b were the only ones online - had I not shown up at all, Shadows would never have been voted out at all.

and how Shadow had a firm townread on the person you subbed in for even though they were completely MIA.

And I feel like that should be a blatant TMI clear for me but I guess people can't see the obvious. I had this conversation with MM - look at the context of him defending my slot. My slot was NOT under enough pressure to justify S!Shadows defending S!Me that hard. If you think what Shadows did indicates S/S, you're kidding yourself.

Gikkle

Member

Joined: 2022-09-05

Posts: 126

Re: Mafia 52 Game Thread (GAME OVER)

Isn't neighborizer usually supposed to be a town role? Or was the game hoping that the mafia would recruit the traitor or cop or something?

I could actually see the use of a scum neighborizer with a traitor in the game.

What night did 2b target you? Did they ever explain why they targeted you?