Mafia 48 - Birthday Party Game Thread [MAFIA VICTORY]

Minimania · 2020-06-02 02:51:58

Welcome to Mafia 48 - Birthday Party! For those of you who don't know, today is my birthday (June 2), which is why I invited all of you here! We're having a party and a sleepover! I hope you all enjoy yourselves!

Here are the rules:

▼Game Rules

- One in-game day will last 72 hours. One in-game night will last 24 hours. Both may be ended early.
- Votes that are not made using the Bold or Header tags will not be counted. Self-votes are allowed.
- Do not game-throw, and no pushing and shoving in the bouncy castle!
- Follow the rules of the forums and please be nice. I didn't invite you all here to fight; I invited you all here to have fun!
- Red will be the color I will be using to make posts as the game moderator. Do not use this color or otherwise attempt to impersonate me. It's my birthday!
- Players may be prodded after 48 consecutive hours of inactivity by using the !prod <username> command. Players that are prodded for inactivity and don't become active within the next 48 hours will either be replaced or killed (if there are no replacements). Please don't fall asleep during the festivities!
- Do not discuss this game outside of this thread. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas! Okay, it's my house but you get the point.
- A lynch will not occur when a majority has been reached. A lynch can only occur when the day ends. Players can vote to end the day early by using the !endday command. When a day ends, all lynch votes will be counted, and whatever was voted for the most will be executed. If you do not vote, your vote will not be counted as a NoLynch. Players can vote to not lynch anyone during the day by using the !nolynch command. I love democracy.
- These rules totally weren't plagiarized from Norwegianboy's Werewolf game and anyone who says they are will promptly be licked.
- Talking is allowed during twilight. Players nominated for lynch may talk until the moderator has announced their death. Once you are dead, you are not allowed to talk in the thread until the moderator has ended the game. However you are allowed a single short post if it is unrelated to the game.
- Users not participating are not allowed to post in the game topic. If I didn't invite you, then you're not invited.
- Do not take screenshots or quote anything from your role pm. Do not post your Role Card ID. I made them as party favors for you all!

Here are the roles:

▼Roles

Vanilla Townie - Vanilla Townies have no special abilities. By default, they are aligned with the Town.
Nurse - Once per night, Nurses may choose one player; that player will not be killed tonight if they are targetted for a night kill. Nurses can select themselves, but they cannot choose the same player two nights in a row. By default, they are aligned with the Town.
Cop - Once per night, Cops may choose one player; the cop will learn whether or not the selected player is considered Dangerous. By default, they are aligned with the Town.
Vigilante - Once per game, during the night, Vigilantes may choose one player; that player will die. By default, they are aligned with the Town, but are considered Dangerous until they use their ability.
Mafia Goon - Mafia Goons have no special abilities. Once per night, they can choose to perform a kill on behalf of the Mafia faction by choosing one player; that player will die. By default, they are aligned with the Mafia and are considered Dangerous.
Milk Man - Once per game, during the night, Milk Men may choose one player; that player's faction changes to the Mafia Faction, and they keep their abilities. It must be Night 2 or later for the Milk Man to use this effect. Once per night, they can choose to perform a kill on behalf of the Mafia faction by choosing one player; that player will die. Milk Men can only use one of these effects per night. By default, they are aligned with the Mafia and are considered Dangerous.
Serial Killer - Once per night, Serial Killers may choose one player; that player will die. Serial Killers cannot be killed during the night by any member of the Mafia, and cannot be converted into a Mafia member by the Milk Man, but they can be killed by the Vigilante. By default, they are aligned with themselves, and are considered Dangerous.
There will only be one of each role, except Vanilla Townie. Therefore, there is only one Nurse, one Cop, one Vigilante, one Mafia Goon, one Milk Man, one Serial Killer, and 7 Vanilla Townies. The town wins when all the Mafia die. The Mafia wins if it holds a majority.

Here are some rulings regarding the game if anyone is confused:

▼Rulings

And finally, here are a list of commands that you can perform during the game:

▼Commands

Here's the player list!

1. TaskManager
2. Onjit
3. Buzzerbee - Vanilla Town
4. andymakeer - Nurse
5. Luka504 - Vanilla Town
6. ShadowsEdge - Mafia Goon
7. Pqwerty
8. gabriellfs
9. 2B55B5G TNG - Vanilla Town
10. Peace - Vanilla Town
11. AllenCaspe9510
12. Norwegianboy - Serial Killer
13. MrJawapa - Cop

Now have fun, or else I'll open your present last!

drunkbnu, 2b55b5g, Andymakeer, Pqwerty, rat, Gabriellfs

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-02 21:36:26

!confirm

Hi sorry I exist.

I don't think everyone claiming cop is a particularly great idea, if anything, it just adds more confusion to the game which is unnecessary by everyone claiming the same role when there can only be one of it. The easier solution is just to make the PR's claim VT, that way the Mafia has no prejudice over who to choose to convert.

Besides, if the Mafia want to convert a Cop that's their loss, because all they can really do with that is find the Vigilante and Serial Killer, it doesn't do anything to help them achieve their wincon other than get rid of threats. Personally, I think we should keep the Vigilante and Nurse safe, because they're the ones that are most likely going to be targetted by the Milkman because of their actions.

TaskManager, Minimania

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-02 21:36:50

I got ninja'd but Norwegian had a similar idea to what I was saying.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-02 21:45:40

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Besides, if the Mafia want to convert a Cop that's their loss, because all they can really do with that is find the Vigilante and Serial Killer, it doesn't do anything to help them achieve their wincon other than get rid of threats. Personally, I think we should keep the Vigilante and Nurse safe, because they're the ones that are most likely going to be targetted by the Milkman because of their actions.
Uhh, you forget the fact that it removes a big threat to them. (Cop might expose them as scum) and that if i read the setup right, they can slyly convert the cop even if they get protected by the nurse. So that could be even better than killing them.

I was mostly saying all of that to try and prevent the Mafia from converting the Cop if possible, but yeah I did forget about that.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 00:25:28

Im gonna agree with Norwegian here, I dont think the cop strategy is a very smart strategy.

Obviously it would confirm their results after they die, but it also brings up a variety of problems: if the Cop finds a dangerous person, it'll automatically out them as cop, since they'll know who a dangerous person is. And the alternative to combat that would just create more chaos, and wouldn't a good plan for that, which the alternative is to have people put dangerous in their "reads" as you put it, which would only create more chaos in terms of 1, who the real cop is, and 2, what people should believe.

Furthermore, I think everyone claiming the exact same role will just cause a lot of confusion in terms of claims and counterclaims, in which the Mafia and Serial Killer can hide behind (As Norwegian pointed out previously) to push for mislynches, and even push for Cop kills or lynches.

Now let me explain why I personally think that everyone claiming VT is a good idea:

You want everyone to appear as cop to hide the cop's cover, but if the "cops" investigate a mafia, and they appear as not dangerous, it'll lower the pool for who the cop is. With the alternative that everyone claims VT, there's no way for the mafia to narrow down who the Cops are, other than simple actions hinting at being a PR.

The only downside to everyone claiming PR is that the Cop cant reveal their investigations without putting themselves at risk. There's a risk to both of them, but I think that everyone claiming VT is a better solution, because it provides less drawbacks for us than would be with everyone claiming cop--For everyone claiming cop, I see two major downsides, being that it gives evils an easy cover and counterclaim if needed, and allows them to narrow down who the cop is by the "investigations" everyone puts out; In the VT situation, there's still a chance for Mafia to find out who the cops are, but it's not exact, and it doesnt allow the cop to claim as easily.

Norwee, Onjit, 2b55b5g

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 03:05:52

Pqwerty wrote:

Shouldn't the real cop claim anyway if they find a dangerous person? Is the cop supposed to stay hidden and hope they find a second danger AND survive 2 nights in a row against 3 killing roles?

This really depends on the person, and the situation. Some Cops tend to wait until finding multiple evils, that way they don't out themselves, and can out a multitude of evils all at once, thus making mafia killing them mostly mute, since it just confirms that what the Cop said is true. Moreover, Cop investigations aren't "guaranteed" to find an evil at the moment. They only find dangerous people, which the Vigilante counts as until they shoot. If they investigate the Vigilante before they shoot, they could accidentally out them, in which the mafia could convert them or kill them right then and there. I'm aware of the implications of investigating others, but it could be a dangerous game if the Cop ends up outting the Vigilante. Which might make it better to out their results on N3, if applicable, since that would give the Vigilante more time to shoot, and thus make converting or killing them almost useless.

Pqwerty wrote:

Yeah but mafia and SK can hide behind VT claims just the same. Cop is just the new VT in this scenario, and there's more ways to scumhunt than just who claims what.

The point is the amount of confusion and opportunity it brings up for the Mafia and SK. With everyone claiming VT, it's clean and easy to understand, even though evils can hide behind that too. With everyone claiming cop, everyone would be posting night results, claiming people are not dangerous (hopefully, since randomly claiming people as Dangerous would, ironically, be dangerous), and it would create a lot of confusion on whom to believe. It is still easy to disregard the claims, but it would still be a higher level of confusion than just claiming VT. The levels of confusion are what the Mafia and SK can exploit, whether it be trusting the "cop" claims to push themselves and innocent, or hiding behind the guise to push people as dangerous, and even push the Cop to death if applicable.

There's also still the possibility that if people get their reads wrong, it will reveal who isn't truly a cop, and thus will lower the player count of who the Cop is, thus making it more likely that the Cop will be killed.

Pqwerty wrote:

I mean, that's why it's so important that everyone claims Cop. The more cops, the harder it is to narrow it down. Also, if you're worried about bad inspects, just say one of your tr's is town or something. Again, with so many killing roles, scum doesn't have much time to find the cop before it either dies and confirms some people or it survives long enough to where it's just better for everyone to unclaim and just accept the confirms (I really think the former is going to happen).

I think you misunderstood the point of that section. I explained it briefly above, but I'll elaborate. Say one of the fake cops investigates the Goon, and says they appeared as Not Dangerous. Automatically, that person is confirmed to the mafia to not be the Cop. And instantaneously the pool of 10 people (Assuming this happens on D2, where one person dies), lowers to 9. Now imagine this happens more, with people accidentally claiming that the Milk Man is Not Dangerous, or more claiming the Goon is Not Dangerous, the pool would be lowered to a smaller pool in which they would be able to have an easier chance at determining who the Cop is.

With the VT claims, no one is posting fake results, and thus, the only way for the Mafia to find the Cop before they claim is the old fashioned PR reading, which at that isn't accurate.

Pqwerty wrote:

So, if we're looking at this from a pros and cons standpoint, you get guaranteed cop inspects from my strat, which I've said before is vital with all this carnage because the town pool will be small so every townconfirm is super helpful. The cons are: potentially outing the cop (which is okay because we still get the confirms even if the cop is dead, and the cop probably doesn't live long in this setup anyway), scum hiding behind cop claims (but that's the same as them hiding behind a VT claim).

Going off of what Norwegian said, that could be a downfall for us, since the Milkman could simply wait for the cop to die, confirm towns, and convert a confirmed town. The Cop is more so useful if they find dangerous people after the Vigilante has shot, since there's no real way to know if someone has been converted. We have to take everything with a grain of salt, and going off of all the people the Cop gets as Not Dangerous at face value could very well allow the Mafia to win. Personally, I think the Cop should lay low, and not draw attention to themself, similar to how the strat is for many games, in which they reveal when they have sufficient information to out someone as evil. And in the VT scenario, the Nurse could easily add a guise in which they protect the Cop on random nights, in which the Mafia wouldn't know when to protect them. (This plan relies on the Nurse not revealing when they protect the Cop, or faking when they reveal the cop to trick the Mafia). In the Cop scenario, the Nurse cant narrow down who the Cop is to a singular person, so they would only be grabbing at straws to try and keep the real cop safe, while the Mafia and SK can narrow it down to a set of people, and thus kill them off.

I dont think the pros outweigh the cons here, there's a lot of drawbacks to the plan, which only benefit the evils, and I think that pushing for everyone to claim cop could end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 03:07:47

ShadowsEdge wrote:

in which the Mafia wouldn't know when to protect them.

My bad, I meant this as "The Mafia wouldn't know when the Nurse would protect them" and thus they wouldn't know when a safe night to attack them is, unless they risk two nights to kill said cop.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 22:48:47

I dont have a full reads list so dont ask me for one

At the moment I think Norboy is townleaning. The plan to town block is god awful, and it does make me thing it has some scum motivation, but I don't think that alone is enough to push for Norwegian to be pushed yet. Because even though it benefits mostly scum, or at least from what I see, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are, inherently, scum. (I'll get back to this later). I think #74 is the post I like the most from him, I dont necessarily agree with the form , but I do agree with the content, that in this game we need to focus more on scumhunting rather than simply letting the cop find them for us. Because Not Dangerous people wont help us, since they can simply be converted and bring more havoc to us. And, as Pqwerty pointed out, Scum will typically end up killing confirmed people, just to make the game more chaotic. #154 is a post I somewhat like too. I feel like a majority of the players at the moment are trying to just follow what people are saying, rather than make their own reasons for why they find someone suspicious. Since at the moment, the only major contributors to conversation I see are Onjit, Pqwerty, Norboy, and Luka.

tl;dr I have gripes with Norboy's plan, as well, but most of those have already been stated. And I feel that the only really incriminating part of Norboy's iso is asking to townblock with people. It is a horrible strategy early game, but not necessarily incriminating.

@Gabriellfs, do you have anything to contribute to the conversation?

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 22:50:39

Also @Jawapa, no that's not how every game works. How most games work is that when a majority is reached day ends shortly after, and then is flipped. So say Day 1 lasted 40 hours and someone was voted up, the flip would probably come somewhere from there to 48 hours, depending on the host. In this game, if we end it at 40 with 72 hour days. The flip would come at 72 hours, regardless of when the majority is reached. So the amount of Day + Twilight will always be 72 hours.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 22:57:39

ShadowsEdge wrote:

(I'll get back to this later)

Actually ignore this part, I had that when I was going to talk about how that relates to Pqwerty, but then the whole section became very repetitive of things I had already said, and things others have said, so I just scrapped it. But it was mostly just saying that at the moment I slightly-townread pqwerty, mostly because he did introduce the idea with the intention of it being used to help the town, even though there were flaws with it I don't think he realized.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-03 23:12:40

Crybaby wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
These lynching rules are pretty weird. From what i gathered, getting a majority to vote a player doesn't actually lynch them until the time limit runs out?
ShadowsEdge wrote:
In this game, if we end it at 40 with 72 hour days. The flip would come at 72 hours, regardless of when the majority is reached. So the amount of Day + Twilight will always be 72 hours.
The day ends when the time runs out, OR when a majority of players opt to end it manually with !endday.
The flip will not always come at exactly 72 hours; it will come when I'm online and realize someone died. You don't get an 'extended twilight'. I apologize for any confusion I might have given you with the rules.

Ah, my bad

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 04:57:29

RV means Random Vote

mrjawapa

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 19:22:26

I don't think Gabriel is necessarily a throwaway. Voting for Gabriel goes along the same lines of why Luka isn't voting for Andymakeer:

Andymakeer and Luka, while both having scummy attributes, are still contributing to the conversation. Gabriel didn't just say nothing, and that's why we're voting for him. Gabriel explicitly refused to contribute to the conversation until D2.

Gabriellfs wrote:

One of the reasons that I don't post before is because d1 seems pretty boring and dull with just people fighting each other , I would rather !endday like Allen said than seeing some dudes fighting because of mafia strategies

But, between Andy and Luka, I think Andy should be flipped. Luka is mostly suspicious for supporting the cop wagon, which is fair, but could lead either way (Correct me if I'm wrong, I did a run through of the thread and this is all I could find). Andy has been batting down conversation from the beginning. Basically calling all the conversation we had useless, and claiming that he's trying to help town move forward.

!vote Gabriellfs

Personally, I'd rather have Gabriell flip over Andy. Or at the very least, pressure Gabriell to say something more than just refusing to talk D1, just for the hell of it. But in terms of a more substantial lynch, I'd much prefer an Andy lynch, since I think his scummy actions are longer lasting, and are more contradictory than Luka's.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 19:23:23

peace wrote:

why gabriel?
becuase hes inactive? i think weve said in earlie rgame inactivety issnt necresary scummotivated

We asked Gabriel to speak, and he basically responded with a post saying "I don't talk D1, because that's stupid" that's why he's being voted. Since it seems like a reason to just not talk and avoid being scumread.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 19:34:00

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I’d rather vote a scummy player than an inactive player. Lynches on inactives are bad and if it flips town basically gives us nothing to work with the next day. While i agree with voting for pressure on principle, we really don’t have enough time for that anymore and that is why i think we should rather be voting Andymakeer right now.

Makes sense, but I still want Gabriell to say something more than just refusing to speak. Once I get that I'll probably vote for Andy.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 22:27:08

mrjawapa wrote:

If your goal is to help the cop, lynching Gabe will not accomplish that. Lynching Luka could give us more info into Shadow and 2B. As mentioned earlier, there was a subtle connection between Luka and 2B. Shadow seemingly defended Luka without being obvious about it. He pointed in a different direction, then doubled back to belittle the suspicion directed to Luka.

Because I don't think that Luka is all that suspicious. People are throwing suspicion onto Luka, but all Luka really did to gain that suspicion was agree with a stratagem that Pqwerty had suggested. There were other people in agreement with the strategy, whom I find to be more suspicious, but not necessarily a target for D1. Most notably, 2B, which other people have already mentioned, so I don't really need to explain why I find them suspicious. If there is some grander notion to why Luka is suspicious, please tell me, because to me, it just seems like Luka is being targetted for wanting to attempt a strategy.

I personally think an Andy lynch is better (Referring to Jawapa's comment that the Luka lynch is better), because even though he might be playing like a new player, he's been acting anti-town the entire time. We've tried to tell him to do various things to *help* the town. But instead he refuses:

> He was asked for reads, and he just said he doesn't want to out his reads. And why, as Town, would you not want to call out your reads?.
> He's completely disregarded discussion, at basically everything we've done, he's said that it's solved nothing, and that the whole argument was pointless.
> Every time he is accused, he seems to just disregard everyone's claims as something along the lines of "You're just creating suspicion on me"

Andy also heavily supports a no lynch, which is a common new player strategy, but doesn't listen to reason when we try to explain how lynches are vital to the Town, and keeps pushing the no lynch ideal. Sure, we could end up lynching Town, but as previously stated, Lynch Wagons are how the town gets information outside of a cop. Who voted for who, why did they vote for them, what connections did they have with them, who were they defending, how confident were they that someone was town or scum. Furthermore, Outside of a one-shot vigilante, lynches are the only way that Town can make plays against evils in terms of killing. That's why lynching is so important, especially on D1, since we need to get as much information as quickly as possible.

Since Gabriel still refuses to talk, I'm gonna vote for Andy. I'm going to push on Gabriel to talk tomorrow, because I still don't like their behavior going into today.

!vote Andymakeer

Also, I just need to reply to this.

peace wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
But, between Andy and Luka, I think Andy should be flipped. Luka is mostly suspicious for supporting the cop wagon, which is fair, but could lead either way (Correct me if I'm wrong, I did a run through of the thread and this is all I could find). Andy has been batting down conversation from the beginning. Basically calling all the conversation we had useless, and claiming that he's trying to help town move forward.
!vote Gabriellfs
Personally, I'd rather have Gabriell flip over Andy. Or at the very least, pressure Gabriell to say something more than just refusing to talk D1, just for the hell of it. But in terms of a more substantial lynch, I'd much prefer an Andy lynch, since I think his scummy actions are longer lasting, and are more contradictory than Luka's.
explian?
also
!vote andy

Peace can you just read. Literally all my reasoning for those were explained the sentence after the one you underlined. But since you want me to, I'll sum it up:

> In terms of order, I think Gabriel should be lynched, because while Andy is more suspicious, at least he's contributing. Gabriel is just refusing to talk in general. It might not reveal a lot of connections like an Andy lynch would, but I don't like their approach to D1 at all. I'm fine with an Andy lynch, because I find him suspicious too, but I'm against a Luka lynch.

That's what that post was meant to say.

peace

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 22:28:06

Imagine having friends, unlike me who's been home for 3 months.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa dying inside

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 22:29:58

Bro

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 22:50:50

Luka504 wrote:

That actually is not a bad idea. If everyone writes fake reads, then if the real cop dies, we can use what they've said while they were alive.
All right, I'm game. I am a cop.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

well ok then
im cop

AllenCaspe9510 wrote:

I claim cop, I went out early in the morning and found out that I got no results

Allen agreed with it as well. I'm saying I don't think Luka is necessarily the most suspicious of all of them, These 3 are the ones that explicitly stated that they think the cop method is the way to go. 2B is more suspicious for doing a 180 in two posts, and in general for not really posting anything new to the conversation afaik, and Allen is in a similar wagon to Andy, where they're trying to avoid a lynch, and moreso just avoid discussion.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-04 22:51:28

^ Pqwerty, as the suggester of it, agreed with it as well, but I already explained my thoughts on them previously.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-06 05:47:26

Allen, did you have a scumread on Andy?

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-06 23:18:35

Well this was not how I was expecting things to go.

I'm the Vigilante, I know how suspicious that looks right after being called out, but that's really all I got.

I defended Luka because I think he's town. You push the idea that Andy was less suspicious, but Andy was quite literally refusing to give us anything to work with, and while that can be a new player trait, Andy isn't exactly a new player.

Luka was only suspicious because they opted for the Hypo strategy, while I don't agree with the strategy, it's not necessarily scum-indicative, and I think that pushing a lynch on them would have been worse than pushing on Andy.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-06 23:22:51

I don't believe in random shooting N1. I don't have enough evidence to go on to get a particularly good scumread on anyone. And if I end up being wrong, that'll just push the evils closer to winning.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-06 23:26:00

I personally would like someone to counterclaim Vig, it would give me insight on who I should shoot.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-06-06 23:35:13

From my standpoint, they'll attempt to counterclaim me to mislynch me, in which all they'll have to worry about is the Cop, which they can easily convert tomorrow.

I wanted Gabe to be lynched D1, because I didn't like their attitude into the day. But the Andy wagon was farther along, as you said, and 1, I believed that Andy could be scum, and 2, I believed that a flip should occur to give us information on anyone if possible.

If my defense of Luka was suspicious, then so be it. Luka was being tunnelled by everyone, and I find that when people begin to tunnel on someone is when they make misplays and end up lynching someone. Andy was being tunnelled on too, but I found them ultimately more suspicious than Luka.

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#1 2020-06-02 02:51:58, last edited by Minimania (2021-03-22 05:04:29)