Mafia 40 - Russian Roulette Mafia Victory!

Kira · 2020-01-21 14:18:42

Welcome to Mafia 40 - Russian Roulette

Host: Kira

Setup:

- 13 players
- 2 Mafia A
- 2 Mafia B
- 9 Vanilla Townie

Information:

- This mafia is Nightless meaning that there is no night phase, thus no night kill for mafia.
- Each In-game Day will last 72 hours.
- You cannot revoke your vote, once you place it, It is absolute.
- There has to be a lynch everyday, nolynch is not allowed.
- #8A5C5C is my color. Impersonating me will get you modkilled.
- You have to post at least once every 24 hours. Failing to do so twice will get you modkilled.
- In case of a tie, both players will be lynched.
- You are forced to vote if majority has not been reached and day is about to end.
- All forum rules apply.
- Vote in h tags.
- You are expected to put a minimum of effort in your posts. (I'm looking at you Peace)
- I may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- If you need to get the mod's attention, either PM me, or bold the text you wish to draw to my attention.
- I reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as I see fit. You will, of course, be notified if that happens, however.

Roles

Welcome to game! You are a Vanilla Townie.
You have no active abilities.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome to game! You are a Mafia Goon A/B
You have no active abilities.
You may communicate with your ally through: [Quicktopiclink]
You win if all threats to the mafia are eliminated and at least one scum-aligned player from your universe (A/B) is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Alive Players

- BuzzerBee
- mrjawapa
- peace (1 warning)
- Different55
- Eleizibeth (1 prod)
- Onjit

Dead Players

-Norwegianboy (Town)
-Processor (Mafia Goon)
-mutantdevle (Town)
-2B55B5G TNG (Town)
-TaskManager (Town)
-ShadowsEdge (Town)
-Crybaby (Town)

Remember have fun! Game will start once every players have confirmed their role.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-22 16:15:35

Yo sorry I kinda went to sleep right as I got home yesterday because I forgot I existed.

Im not gonna say a lot because I have to go school soon, but I don't think Task or Jawapa are scummy just because they random voted, because I was planning on doing the exact same thing.

Anyway, I'm a man made of vanilla Ice Cream and Human Flesh, so do what you want with that.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-23 03:52:22

Ok how come I went to school and we were on Page 3 and now we've doubled that in the 8 hours I was at school?

I don't get what the big deal about Task rando voting Norwegian is. Yeah, it was a stupid move, but someone was bound to do it. It's a game where lynches are permanent, it was going to tempt someone to do a random lynch just to tick off everyone else. Like I said before, I was planning on doing the exact same thing, but since I wasn't on at the time, I didn't do it.

If there's some underlying point to this that I'm missing, can someone explain? I got home late today, and I will backread in depth later on, but for now I just skimmed through everything.

Now I will talk about Norwegian's post:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This isn't a true nightless game until Mutant get's turbolynched because of some crappy push that doesn't really make sense.

Didn't Mutant say he was going to be relatively inactive before the game started? Therefore Mutant is lying. Yada yada, scum indicative, lynch lynch. Obligatory "crappy push that doesn't really make sense."

I actually agree with Processor that Peace is a little suspicious, he's on the wagon to jump onto lynches (aka Task lynch), and he criticized Task for jumping into a lynch so soon, which again, iirc, he placed it before 24 hours of day had even been gone through. Just a little tidbit.

Anyway, I would provide more of my piece, but like I said I just got home not too long ago, and to provide more information would require more in depth backreading than just skimming. I will try to do it today, but just not now, per se.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-24 03:58:51

Here's my take. Norwegian sus, TaskManager townish.

Norwegian has struck me in an odd way for most of this game, and it's not just because he stole my Game Narrator title (definitely not salty). So I backread, and some of the posts just seemed useless to me. Skipping over the **** phase, #16 seems like hessitation right after being voted by TaskManager. Sure, it's an early vote, so it probably caught Norwegian off guard, but still something to note. #30 strikes me in an odd direction, because a majority of the post is integrated on the mechanics of the game. And while that's still an important factor to note, to point out which side the game is favored towards is an odd mention for an early post. On that note, it was the first substantial post they made, and most of the information was mechanic based, which just seems to me like an easy way to gather town points without actually providing information. #67 is combatting to his point, I don't think many people have scumread him, since Taskmanager made an easy scum target for instavoting. So his point that townreading him usually indicates him as scum is a slight notion to be more wary of him. Another thing I would like to point out is that Norwegian this game sort of reminds me of how he targetted me in Universe Mafia, unrelenting suspicions on an easy target. Norwegian also switched to vote for Crybaby over something minute, for simply Crybaby claiming that it would be a mislynch. To me just seems like a way to get off the heat from the mislynch. I also agree with many of the points TaskManager made (specifically about #96), but I wanted to make this more about my own observations.

Now onto why I think Taskmanager is Town. For one, we know there are multiple Scum teams, each scum team has two players in it, and in order for them to win they would need to have at least one of their scum partners alive. Their wincon isn't tied to the other team. Hence, Taskmanager's obligation to rather focus on Norwegian rather than prove his own innocence is an odd move to make if he were Mafia. I'm not saying it disproves him as Mafia, since in Nomination Mafia I had reason to believe he was Town for a similar reason, and he ended up being scum. But in this case it's also simply because of aligned intentions. I put Taskmanager as Townish, instead of Town, also because I don't want to say he's fully Town yet in case of a Nomination Mafia play.

Plus, counter wagons are cool.

!vote NorwegianboyEE

We'll see where this goes.

mutantdevle

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-24 14:36:02

Crybaby is null, they're trying to participate in conversation, but instead of participating in the already conversing convo, they chose to go with previous convos and make conversation with that rather than the current conversation. And while that is something they usually do as town, I still don't think it's all that helpful, hence why I'm leaving null. Now onto why I think you switched over something minute. You switched over to Crybaby over him saying "It would be a mislynch." Sure, it's a random statement, but taking that and using it to redirect your lynch is a weird stance. Taskmanager rando voted, and you spent ~6 pages building up evidence against him, until just suddenly changing course onto Crybaby after Crybaby made that slight comment about the lynch, which isn't even as viable of evidence.

The fact that you want to suspect me if my reads don't align with you just make a greater sense of my scumread on you.

And yes, you have shown signs of unrelenting suspicion, up until now. I haven't seen much posts from you where you consider the possibility of Taskmanager being Town, until in response to my post.

TaskManager

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-24 15:28:25

Unrelenting (adj.) - Not yielding in strength, severity, or determination.

Just so were on the same page. Unrelenting doesn't mean that you're being aggressive, it just means that you refused to back down from the suspicion. Up until now where you actually showed signs of believing that he was Townish.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

That's a lie. Why would you lie?
It was a factor in my scumread, but not the entire reason. I don't like Crybaby's play at all in this game, he had the time to make joke posts proving he did at least spend time to read people's posts, but he had nothing substantial to say until now. And then he made excuses about his play. I don't see town him doing something like that when in earlier games as town he has had days where he **** and doesn't ever bother making excuses for it. But here he made a huge block of text boiling down to: "don't lynch me for this guys, i'm town. This is a mislynch you know. I don't have time, i'll prove it. Here's a picture of my assignment."
Yet you boiled down everything i said to me switching my vote because of a single phrase from Crybaby. This is disingenuous and i'm not sure you even believe what you yourself is saying here.

It's not a lie. It's my own opinion. Inactivity alone cannot be the fuel to the fire, and your main reasoning for switching over to Crybaby was ultimately the piece that I mentioned. That's why I named it as the main piece of evidence, because while you did suspect Crybaby before that, it was never anything severe, and only light suspicions. But after that piece by Crybaby, you switched gears from focusing on Taskmanager to focusing on Crybaby. That's why I call it minute. Thereafter you tried presenting reasons to prove why you switched to Crybaby, and took less time to place a vote on Crybaby than you did on Taskmanager, whom you never actually placed a vote on. You're trying to make me doubt my own opinion, because I'm combatting your own, why is that?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

When that is exactly what your play could be constructed as doing. Townreading Task because you know he's most likely town and then pushing suspicion on me so i can be painted as suspicious for tommorow.

A. I considered yours to be redirecting, because you brought up Crybaby out of the blue to mark the waters for their lynch. People have brought up suspicions, but no one went so far as to lynch them, and it again, reminds me of how you played in Universe Mafia. The reason I call it "Redirecting your lynch" isn't because you're pushing for people to lynch Crybaby, it's simply because you spent a majority of the game suspecting Taskmanager to simply throw it away on Crybaby. And B, in that standard, mine isn't structured as such because I will admit to my inactivity. I never made a clear stance, and I voted you to put the pressure on you. Besides, following Taskmanager's opinion is an interesting side that I wanted to explore.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

What evidence? I've been speculating and questioning. There's no way you're sincere about this point. Please point to me where exactly i am "building evidence" and "relentlessly pushing" as opposed to questioning, speculating or making memes.

In case you havent realized, questioning and speculating IS building up evidence. What purpose would you have to speculate and question, to not build up evidence? That's literally the point of doing it. And on the second point, you twisted my words, hence why I made the original statement. I said Relentlessly suspecting, not relentlessly pushing. And I have no need to do so, because you've just stated that you have been speculating and questioning. But if you'd like me to go back and point out some parts for you I'd be happy to do that.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

It's not just about your reads buddy.

"i've got a decent lead on him and if you can't see that then i've got no choice but to suspect you as well."

Well what do you expect me to believe when this is the statement you made about suspecting me?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Not opposed. Yes, unrelenting? No.
I engage people with pressure, this should be nothing new for you. And i am entirely capable of doing it until i feel like they have spilled their guts and been honest. Besides, i never acted like my Task read was final. If it was i would have voted him today, not Crybaby. I'm not fully townreading Task btw, i can still see it as scummy behaviour. But i believe Crybaby was much more likely to actually flip scum. Hence i vote there.

Again, it is unrelenting, as I made in the first part of this post. I know engaging with pressure is your playstyle, but that's not the point. The point is that you refuse to acknowledge another side, which resembled how you targetted me in Universe Mafia, and why I find you suspicious. I followed the suspicion to look towards other places where that suspicion shone through.

I full well know that voting you likely won't change the wagon, but it generates conversation, and forces you to make acquisitions about yourself.

I would also like to point out that you said before that you considered your vote in spirit on #129. I know that's not the same as putting it in the entire way, but you were believing in your reads there as well.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This "unrelenting" word and further phrasing from you is used not to solve my alignment but purely to paint me as a scummy individual. You haven't shown any signs of engaging me on my behavior until you just vote me out of the blue with your semi-case. It is very scummy and i will most definitely vote you tomorrow if i get the chance.

It is to solve your alignment, as I've said multiple times, it resembles your playstyle on Universe Mafia. Ironically, you find me scummy right after I present a case against you. Not because I havent been active, not because I havent actively participated in conversation, not because I never even set a stance on Taskmanager until yesterday. No, it's because I set a suspicion on you, and I chose to act on it. That's radically different than how you treated Crybaby. Would you care to explain why?

mutantdevle

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-25 17:23:34

So I'm gonna keep this post short and sweet, I got somewhere to go in like an hour and I haven't even started getting ready.

Diff puts me off in a weird way. I know it's been mentioned before, but Diff kept saying "He was acting like he did when he was an innocent child." And even at that, in that game we told Norwegian that if he wasn't the Innocent Child we would have suspected him. His only saving grace was the fact that he was literally confirmed as town.

The fact that Diff compared it to the Innocent Child, specifically, is also a bit odd. Might be looking too much into it, but Norwegian **** on the regular, and Diff specifically chose the game where he was confirmed as town to compare his style to. Adding onto that, Norwegian's main powder keg to the Innocent Child playstyle was that he didn't care if he was observed as scum, because he was confirmed as Town, and ergo acted very scummy on his own account. This game it didn't feel like he was trying to act scummy, just happened to come out that way.

Now I'm going to look into late voters of the Norwegian lynch. Might be blind faith but I'm still putting my trust into Task.

2B is just sheeping opinions. And I don't know exactly what to make of it. In EE Forums Mafia it seems that's consistently what happens with his playstyle. But I know from playing with him in Discord Mafia that he has the ability to scumhunt and form his own reads instead of simply sheep other people's opinions. The fact that soon after Different voted Taskmanager, making 2B's vote essentially void is offputting as well. (They voted within ~20 minutes of each other). Could just be a coincidence.

I'm going to pair Eleizibeth and Mutantdevle because I have a bone to pick with both of them. #230 and #231 are where Eleizibeth and Mutantdevle both independently voted for Norwegian. Their posts were literally within 30 seconds of each other. Ergo, their votes were likely independent of each other. At the time the votes were 3 Norwegian and 4 TaskManager. It's unlikely either of the two could have known the other was voting, unless the votes were not independent of each other. For that reason, both of them were fine with tying the votes, which would ultimately lead in the death of two players, one confirmed Town, and one townlean for me.

Mutantdevle did have suspicions of Norwegian throughout D1, albeit it is weird that in the end Mutantdevle decided to cast his vote onto Norwegian rather than Taskmanager when at one point he did explicitly state his intention was to vote for Taskmanager. Maybe just something I'm missing here. Eleizibeth does not share that same sentiment. Eleizibeth spent the entirety of D1 focusing mostly on Taskmanager, and on their 10th post, quickly switched gears to vote for Norwegian. Having shown no intention of voting for Norwegian before that post previously, it strikes me in an odd way. I also dislike the fact that most of Eleizibeth's posts are sheeping rather than their own personal opinion is also a red flag. But iirc I think that's mostly what Eleizibeths opinions are in previous games.

Although, I would like to elaborate that I think that Mutantdevle is more likely than not town. Unless he's pulling a double bluff by intentionally making himself scummy, then we're all screwed.

Alrighty, won't post for a while, since as I said before, got somewhere to go soon.

Different55, Minimania

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-25 21:50:06

No I don't know the reason why you're sheeping opinions 2B. I haven't paid all that much attention to the server because personal stuff got in the way.

Anyway, I agree, Eleizibeth needs to be more active in conversation, so I'll start with this: Eleizibeth, what are your reads?

Different55 wrote:

Fair points with Norboy. I just don't think he'd ever act like that as scum. Honestly I don't even think the way he was playing was scummy. Reckless, yeah I that's like the defining characteristic of whatever this is. Idk I just don't see scum there though. And there was no scum there to see, I was 100% right so legitimately why are we questioning why I thought something that was correct?

I got a lot of stuff to say about this. 1, Norwegian is hard to catch as scum, because most of the time he acts super towny as scum, but recently he's acknowledged that and took a more aggressive turn as scum, which was typically his scum playstyle. You have to look deeper than just what's written on the screen to catch the scum, I was wrong about Norwegian, and I will admit that. But the way he was playing was ultimately scummy, he focused on Taskmanager, and switched completely over to Crybaby over a small bit of information. 2, we question something you're correct about because of the fact that scum can do the exact same. Most people were against Norwegian, but scum can easily hop in on the wagon and say "Hey guys, this guy is town don't vote for him!," and as soon as they flip, they get the town points for defending a town. We can't take it at face value that your defense on Norwegian was inherently and completely in the town's favor. And I would know, I used this exact tactic on TFR. 3, why are you adamant on preventing our investigations on your defense of Norwegian?

Different55 wrote:

Because that was my sole basis for believing he was town. Kinda frustrating that he's dead, confirmed town, and you all are still debating whether or not it was a good idea to lynch him when IMO we had a much juicier target available.

I actually think that Norwegian flipping made it all the more juicier. Taskmanager was the optimum lynch for Day 1, everyone assumed that Taskmanager would be lynched. And since I put my trust in that Task is Town, scum could have easily sat back and watched the events unfold before them. Providing the counterwagon threw a hitch in the plans, albeit it still worked out in the end. It threw another concept into play, scum could have either sat back and watched as one of the two were lynched, or could have pushed for both to be lynched. Hence why I find Eleizibeth's actions scummy. It also forced more people to vote, and forced more people to take a stance on either Norwegian or on Taskmanager. Sure, we could have lynched solely Taskmanager, but putting Norwegian into the mix, while still losing a town in the end, I think it made things more interesting, in terms of both gameplay and investigation.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-25 23:30:16

My assumption is that it's similar to Universe Mafia, their win conditions can be tied together if they play their cards right, but if not, it makes it so that if one scum team is eliminated, the other scum team can still survive.

peace

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-26 00:19:17

eleizibeth wrote:

shadow, who was the "confirmed town"?

Norwegian, since they now flipped Town.

rat

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 03:14:29

Oopta I'm gonna say my input because that's all Im good for.

Firstly I'm gonna say my piece about Mutant (I'm well aware a counterlynch isn't possible, bite me). Mutant is acting like Processor's lap dog. For the majority of D2, when Processor's actions have been put under scrutiny, Mutant was the one to rise to the occasion to act as Processor's knight in shining armor. The questions are directed towards Processor. Processor should be the one to answer them. There shouldn't be a filter through Mutant, because then Processor can simply hide behind Mutant's protection instead of defending himself. Your defense is appreciated Mutant, but I genuinely think that Processor should speak for himself on all accounts of the matter.

Now I'm going to direct a question towards Mutant, with a bit of context. Why is the situation between Processor and Taskmanager so different? You said it's because Taskmanager is scummy because of inactivity, and based on previous games, that proved he was likely to do so as scum here as well. But what makes Processor so different for you? Processor can, and has, acted very towny as scum. Heck, I was the only one who actually suspected him that game, and eventually I dropped the suspicion because I trusted him. Why are you so willing to trust Processor? I am well aware this is hypocritical, since I put trust into Taskmanager.

I'm going to nitpick now.

Processor wrote:

a double lynch makes us lose a day of time to scumhunt
please don't

Does this mean you believe Taskmanager is Town? Because if you believed Taskmanager is scum, that would create a net flux of zero, making the amount of days to scum hunt essentially the same as it is today.

Taskmanager is fine with a double lynch. Processor is not fine with a double lynch. Both are candidates of the lynch.

Taskmanager is fine with being lynched, being a participant of the double lynch, Processor called him out for it (Which to me just seems like a way to make people stack votes on Taskmanager). The post above by Processor contradicts with a previous post of him, where he dedicated an entire post to why he found Taskmanager suspicious. Either fence-sitting, or he's BSing his read on Taskmanager.

Now on the occasion of the Double Lynch. I will admit that I am partially fence-sitting on this. I think it's important that both flip, for investigative purposes. But at the same time, on the off chance that the reads are wrong, it'll be devastating for us. I'm slightly leaning for the Double Lynch though, for the reason stated above. Although, I want Processor to flip today regardless, which is fairly likely.

rat, Minimania

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 03:37:36

Whether you disregard affiliation with Mutant or not doesn't matter. Mutant has an affiliation with you and that's what I'm getting at.

Im basing the defense on the source because it matters where the source comes from. If you were a journalist, would you want your source to be an official, victim, someone involved in the actual events, or just someone who heard about the event? Mutant doesn't know how you think, he can only assume how you think. By him creating a defense for you, it eliminates the need for you to create your own defense, and for us to judge your defense on your OWN merits. Instead we have to filter it through Mutant, since Mutant chose to be your knight in shining armor, instead of letting you defend yourself.

And in case it wasn't clear, it's not about validity, it's about the facts. Mutant doesn't know all the facts, unless you two are indeed affiliated. In which case, the most accurate account of your defense would come from your own words, not filtered through Mutant.

The fact of the matter is that we're not trying to create a defense for you. Your defense is "Well I've said my piece, just make a reason for yourself to believe why I'm innocent, and that's about right." When we ask you a question, we want you to answer it. Me specifically, I don't want a cryptic answer saying "Well just piece it together from my previous defenses!"

Incorrect. Mutant has chosen you as their confidant, and multiple have chosen you as the optimal lynch over Taskmanager. Being that there are only 4 scum, and at least 5 on your wagon, combined with the fact that they are two scum teams, it's unlikely it's completely motivated by scum. Therefore, that being said, if you do flip town, then we could piece together a possible fraction of the scum from your wagon. Taskmanager would reveal something about me, since I trust him, something about Mutant, and something about you, since the rest of the players have been mostly null towards Taskmanager. Now tell me, how does that make Taskmanager "reveal more information," as you put it?

I would also like to note, I don't suspect you because you refused to answer a question, I suspect you because of your fence sitting, obligation to deter the lynch away from yourself, and onto multiple players, as well as what I originally mentioned in the previous post. It also doesnt help that Mutant is your confidant, and I'm starting to trust Mutant less and less.

The last point does make sense, but it mostly seems like you're trying to save your own skin. But I'm not going to be a broken record and repeat those points.

rat

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 03:53:16

Obviously you didn't read my entire post, because your question was already answered in that post:

ShadowsEdge wrote:

The fact of the matter is that we're not trying to create a defense for you. Your defense is "Well I've said my piece, just make a reason for yourself to believe why I'm innocent, and that's about right." When we ask you a question, we want you to answer it. Me specifically, I don't want a cryptic answer saying "Well just piece it together from my previous defenses!"

To sum it up:

1. That's exactly what I'm doing. But I'm not talking about reads, I'm talking about your defense. I don't want a filtered defense, I want you to say your own defense, instead of having Mutant be your lap dog.

2. My problem is that when you're confronted about your defense now, your only response is "Just look at my old posts, I've already explained it, and get what you want from that," to me that's just a lazy excuse to say "I already have a defense, but if it doesn't make sense to you, just make up whatever you want that proves me innocent."

3. Read above.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 03:53:50

Why the heck did you make multiple posts to respond to my one post?

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 04:03:39

Processor wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
The fact of the matter is that we're not trying to create a defense for you. Your defense is "Well I've said my piece, just make a reason for yourself to believe why I'm innocent, and that's about right." When we ask you a question, we want you to answer it. Me specifically, I don't want a cryptic answer saying "Well just piece it together from my previous defenses!"
I already did, have I not? Are there any open questions? What information is missing here?

Why are you fence-sitting? Why are you reluctant to restate your defense?

Processor wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
The last point does make sense, but it mostly seems like you're trying to save your own skin. But I'm not going to be a broken record and repeat those points.
What the ****
No I said it because you, ele, Crybaby, TaskManager do (did) not understand why a double lynch is bad for town

It feels like nobody is listening to what I'm saying simplying because "its from processor and processor has 5 votes on him" and its really really frustrating
I cannot have make a logical point without being accused of wanting to "saving my own skin"
like what the **** no I dont give a **** I just want you guys to stop acting like idiots thanks
/rant

The point isn't that it came from you. My whole point is that you support a single lynch, while Taskmanager is fine with a Double Lynch. Neither proves either as scum, but Taskmanager is fine with being lynched, while you have openly stated that you want a single lynch, and have made it abundantly clear you want that lynch to be Taskmanager rather than yourself. To add onto this, you say that it's bad for town to have a double lynch, despite believing Taskmanager is scum. Ergo, what's the harm in performing the double lynch if it ultimately provides no effect to the game? (See, it's not hard to repeat points if you need to).

Processor wrote:

Lynching Task reveals info on ele as well, which you would know if you read my post.
Unless you disagree? Then let's have a discussion about it.

The points against Ele are pretty solid, on most accounts. Although I have nitpicks with few of them. I never responded to them because most of it was pretty much said, and felt adding onto it at the time would be redundant.

Mainly being, Ele is not a new player, and your evidence against Ele isn't solely against Taskmanager, there are 3 points in relation to Taskmanager, while the rest are in relation to yourself or in generality. While I think the points against Ele are solid, I don't think the amount of points directly from Taskmanager consolidate it to prove Ele's alliance on Taskmanager's flip.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 04:18:35

Processor wrote:

Let me give you a personalized defence, I need some clarification first tho.
ShadowsEdge wrote:
I would also like to note, I don't suspect you because you refused to answer a question, I suspect you because of your fence sitting, obligation to deter the lynch away from yourself, and onto multiple players, as well as what I originally mentioned in the previous post.
1: "fence sitting" [citation needed]
2: obligation to deter the lynch away from yourself, and onto multiple players [citation needed]
3: "as well as what I originally mentioned in the previous post" [what specifically?]

1.

Hard to quote a lot of this. But, you questioned Jawapa for a few posts, then never made a full conclusion about him, only said "Not 100% sure of they're scum," then moved back onto Taskmanager.

But I mainly derived it from this:

Processor wrote:

a double lynch makes us lose a day of time to scumhunt

To explain, you previously stated of having a scum tell on Taskmanager. Yet this post clearly shows that you have doubts about his alliance. Naturally, but I still don't agree with it, seeing as you want to lynch Taskmanager over yourself.

(There's not a lot on this point, but still something I did want to bring up).

2.

Processor wrote:

Lynching me because of inactivity is pretty lame.
Additionally, a Yonom lynch does not yield much additional info unlike how a Task lynch would.
Why is ele suspicious?
Let me explain, since you guys are so oblivious.
As I've said, my scumread on ele heavily depends on Task's flip.
In other words, it's due to how she has interacted with TaskManager on D1.
Still unclear? Let me show you.
Isolate ele.
Here's a summary:
Yesterday:
- ele says Task is scummy
- ele says she is 100% ok with lynching task but hints that she is reluctant to actually place her vote
- ele votes for Norboy the moment the wagon starts, she never explains why she thinks Norboy is scummy, she does not show reluctance this time
Today:
- ele is put on my scum list
- ele says I am scum because of a "general vibe" she is getting
- ele puts task in the middle of her read list (neutrals) - commonly, new mafia players put their peers in the middle of their read list, they avoid extreme positions
- ele votes for me the moment a wagon (she still hasn't explained why she thinks I am scum)
In general:
- she has gotten much more active since I started suspecting her (motivation to not get lynched > motivation to find scum)
- ele has a rather safe play style
-- she only gives her opinion on the currently active subject
-- she does not go out of her way to find suspects
-- she gives vague explanations for suspecting people
-- lots of her posts early in the game have no content and are made to avoid getting prodded (1 2 3 4 5)

Processor wrote:

Why vote Task?
Task is suspicious because of his general lack of interest in solving the game (his initial vote on Norwegianboy, having a rather safe playstyle (defensive / neutral / meme posts)), and the way he has interacted with me.
I explained my reasons in my first post the posts that Task has made since have been similarly defensive and unhelpful to town.
The whole ele situation does not help his case either.
All in all, I think the lynching Task would provide us with much valuable information necessary to solve the game.
I wanted to lynch Task D1 and I want to lynch him D2 since no better candidate has been found.
Why Task over ele?
While I have a scum read on both ele and Task, I choose to vote for Task:
- I know Task's playstyle much better than ele's and am far more confident in Task being scum
- my case on Ele is mostly based on the assumption that Task is scum. That means:
-- ele flipping town does not negate my suspicions on Task, but
-- Task flipping town does make me drop my case on ele
A few more things I want to highlight:
TaskManager wrote:
I'm not confident in a Proc lynch but if he doesn't respond to everything that was asked before then I see no other choice but to vote him
> Task asks me a question 4am my time
> 12 hours later, he says he will have to lynch me if I do not respond to that question
You're citing my inactivity as your reason to lynch me, yet, I have contributed more than quite a few people in this game.
The only difference is that I am scum reading you and they are not.
eleizibeth wrote:
ill probably vote for proc within the next hour unless he actually answers the questions
> ele says she will vote for me if I do not answer the above questions
> ele votes for me, citing that I have not answered the said questions
The thing is, I was not online to answer your questions.
Ele has effectively voted for me but has avoided taking responsibility for it.
She has not given a rational explanation as to why I should be lynched.
- None of you two have answered the questions I have asked yet you expect the opposite
- The whole claim that processor is avoiding questions is pretty baseless because I had answered the questions you've asked me since my last post (and I cannot do any better than that)

Processor wrote:

Why jawapa is suspicious
All jawapa has been doing this game is calling out mafia pairs lol.
mrjawapa wrote:
Peace/crybaby mafia team?
mrjawapa wrote:
task/crybaby/peace scum team?
mrjawapa wrote:
Onjit/task/crybaby/peace scum team?
mrjawapa wrote:
I'm betting norboy and task are a scum team.
mrjawapa wrote:
I'm gonna scum lean norboy and guess his partner is diff
mrjawapa wrote:
Mutant/processor scum team confirmed?
mrjawapa wrote:
I first thought task/norboy could be a mafia team.
mrjawapa wrote:
Peace, are you and processor a mafia team?
mrjawapa wrote:
2B are you and processor mafia partners

3.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Processor is not fine with a double lynch. Both are candidates of the lynch.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Processor called him out for it (Which to me just seems like a way to make people stack votes on Taskmanager). The post above by Processor contradicts with a previous post of him, where he dedicated an entire post to why he found Taskmanager suspicious.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 04:26:02

Processor wrote:

ShadowsEdge: I refuse to spend half an hour to answer the generic and broad question that you took 1 minute to type and you did not even include any references
If that's scummy to you, feel free to vote on me

Now you see why we don't want you to just say "Look back at my old defenses!"

And to add onto that, I looked through your iso, I didn't see much pertaining to a defense from you. The largest defense I saw was where you called out Ele, which basically summed up to: "Wow, your accusations are stupid."

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 04:43:06

Processor wrote:

1. That is a misunderstanding. I am 100% commited on my TaskManager read.
A double lynch is worse than lynching either one of us, because it denys town discussion time.
To be explicit:
I still would rather have you only lynch me than double lynch me and task if given the choice.
You can always democratically lynch Task tomorrow if you still feel like it
2. OH MY GOD YOURE BEING REALLY UNFAIR HERE
I WAS LITERALLY ASKED TO EXPLAIN MY SUS READ ON TASK, ELE AND JAWAPA AND I DID.
NOW YOU ARE SAYING IM DETERRING THE LYNCH AWAY FROM MYSELF?
Ahem.
This point is invalid because those posts were all in response to muliple people asking me to explain my reads.
I did not want to deter attention away from myself, you could say I was "forced" to make those posts explaining my reads on those people in details (although I am proud of them and glad I did it)
I called Task, ele and jawapa suspicious BEFORE anyone putting pressure on me. I have been following a task lynch since D1 and ele and jawapa sus reads since early D2. Long before anyone started a lynch proc wagon. I have created a lot of enemies with those scum reads and have effectively caused all those people to vote on me.

3. See point 1. A double lynch is 100% worse than lynching either one of us, because it denys town discussion time.
----
See? It's easy for me to defend myself when I know what you're talking about.

1. My gripe is that you called it "denying town discussion time." So I'll go over a few scenarios. We have 12 players, and 4 mafia. 8 town, 4 Mafia: this leaves us with 4 chances.. With a double lynch, we have 3 options, both town, both scum, or one town-one scum. You let's go over the both town scenario. In this scenario we would lost a day of discussion time, an overall loss of two days, since it would be 6 town to 4 mafia, leaving us with 2 chances. With the one town, one scum option, which is what I assume you present, it's a net flux of zero, since with the loss of one town and one scum, it reduces the players to 12, making 7 town, 3 mafia, this leaves us with 4 chances. And in this scenario, it actually favors the town rather than the scum, given that the town is greater than double the amount of scum, as opposed to as it is now, where it's double. And for the double scum scenario, which I actually find unlikely, makes it 8 town, 2 Mafia, giving us 6 chances at finding the scum.

The likely lynch for today is you, and since you claim to be town, no matter the scenario, we're going to lose one day of discussion time. My issue is that you explain that double lynching (Adding Taskmanager onto the lynch), would cause the town to lose ANOTHER day. And this would feed off the double town scenario, which before you've always supported it being one town, one scum, since you have explained that you find Taskmanager scummy more than towny. The only alternative for this is if you considered Taskmanager the optimal lynch for today, and considered yourself the additional lynch, which has it's own issues on that regard.

2. Sorry, that's my bad.

3. See 1.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 04:48:52

Frick I made grammatical errors in there that I just realized:

ShadowsEdge wrote:

You let's go over the both town scenario.

*Let's go over the both town scenario.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

In this scenario we would lost a day of discussion time

*lose

Also I would like to point out, I am well aware that in the one town-one scum scenario, its still always 4 more town than scum, but the ratio is different which is what I was getting at.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-27 05:12:34

Firstly, I never intended to vote for you, the votes for you are already the highest, and two higher than Taskmanager, I was weighing the options of tying the votes.

I realize that we lose that day of discussion time by doing so. But at the same time, if we plan it out to be "Lynch Processor today, lynch Taskmanager tomorrow" or whatever order you planned it out, then we're still wasting that day since our entire focus will be cemented onto that one player. Sure, we can make a reaction, but will the suspicion against Taskmanager ever go away? Will the suspicion against you ever go away? To both, I think that's a hard no. There's no way to cement either of you as town. We can speculate all we want, but it likely wont change anything.

On the point of if you're town, I was actually going to assume that Mutant was scum. Counterintuitive, but Mutant knows well enough not to draw attention to his own teammates, let alone hard defend his teammate. Ergo, if you were town, it would give me reason to suspect that he was actually scum.

I'm not going to vote for you, and I'm not going to vote for Taskmanager. Not yet at least. I still want you to flip, it'll validate your claims, or invalidate them if need be. And since you don't want me to tie the votes, I'll follow your logic and not do such. I alone can't change the vote over to Taskmanager, so for the time being I'll let it just sort itself out. Since you're adamant on there being a singular lynch.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-28 02:54:21

Whoop de doo, I'm here. Sorry I didn't vote for Day 2, Kira told me to vote, but I was getting ready for school at the time, and when I got to school I completely forgot to do it.

Thank you for sparing me Kira.

Anyway, don't be so hasty to lynch Mutant, I agree Mutant is very scummy for defending Processor, but you have to take into account the fact that Mutant could just be a Townie who defended the wrong person.

Onjit, rat, 2b55b5g, mutantdevle

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-28 03:31:52

I think that should be obvious. I did favor voting Processor over Taskmanager, as I said before I'm putting trust into Taskmanager being town, even if it might be blind faith.

The reason I didn't vote Processor is because I was hoping that Processor would cave in when he realized I used his own tactics against him to ensure his demise. (That was the whole point behind, "Well, since you don't want there to be a double lynch, I won't be voting for Taskmanager, etc. etc.). Eventually he did cave in and turns out my intuition was right. Plus, Processor was doomed to the fate of the hammer as soon as you voted for him, since the only other alternative would be to tie the votes.

Onjit, rat, 2b55b5g

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-29 15:13:03

So this post is going to be mostly rushed, and also kinda sheepish, because I got onto my computer late, and I got school in 10 minutes.

Processor was null a lot to Crybaby. I went through his iso, and Processor barely ever confronted Crybaby. Off the top of my head, I don't recall him referring to Diff a lot. Considering Processor knows how to distance himself from his teammates, I would likely consider one of them two to be a possible candidate as Processors Teammate.

I agree with the points that Jawapa made about Mutant being scum, and I also think it's likely that Mutant is on the opposing team. Crybaby said at one point that it's likely that Mutant is on the other team, and presented reasonings for it, but it could also be possible that Crybaby knows Mutant is from the other team (By being Mafia on either team). But I also have my points to think it's Diff, because of the whole D1 fiasco, and to add to the previous point, I dont see the benefit for Crybaby to reveal which team Mutant is on. Nevertheless, this is just my PSA to be wary of both of them, and to say that I agree that Mutant can be scum.

Anyway, sorry for the short post, gotta go to school now.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-30 04:40:35

Mutant the fact that you defended Processor isn't the main reason you're being scum-read, at least for me it isn't. It's the situation in and of itself. Scum can easily come up and defending townies to gain the town credit, and since most of Processor's actions were generally read as scummy, your radical decision to defend them instead of letting them conceive their own defense to all the backlash is what is worth taking note of.

Because there are two scum teams, the idea that you defended a Scum, which makes you more likely to be a Unknowing Townie rather than a Defending Scum, can't be taken at that. As Crybaby has suggested, it is completely possible you're from the other scum team, and defended Processor to boost your own standings.

Also can I just mention how people say they're suspicious of me, but no one has actually questioned me on their suspicions?

Anyway, I'll probably do some research on Crybaby and Different in the morning. Gonna go to sleep soon, and would rather not stay up late creating a post.

ShadowsEdge · 2020-01-31 02:38:43

This is 10% a post just to keep me from being modkilled. Sorry Kira, love you.

I'm not home right now, out with my family doing stuff so I've only skimmed the thread up from my last post. Diff still sticks me in the wrong direction, best I can describe Diff as is the Boy who cried wolf, as in, warns about the danger but doesn't really do much about it other than say it with some sort of crappy reasonings, then attacking people when their opinion turns out to be right.

I will say though, I did intend to vote yesterday, because I thought Mutant was scummy for reasons I suspect Diff for, but I was at school at the time that Kira messaged me, so I didn't get it (School WiFi is crap man). But anyway, thank you for saving me Elei.

Also, I know I said I'd look into Crybaby and Diff this morning, but woke up late today, so I'll do it when I get home, which should be in around an hour or two.

Anyway, sorry for the random post, but as I said, mostly don't want to get modkilled.

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#1 2020-01-21 14:18:42, last edited by Kira (2020-02-07 16:07:40)