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she/her
also known as DevilCharlotte
search 2bisniekitastan if you wanna find my worlds on ArchivEE
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2B55, the problem with your reads is that someone being right or wrong is not really a good indication that they are mafia or town. Anyone can be right and anyone can be wrong. What you need to think about instead is motivation behind what they are saying. Why were they right? Why were the wrong? What were they trying to achieve with X post. Can you see why they think X. Those kinds of things. It's sort of hard to explain exactly what you'd need to look for because there's obviously so much to the game of mafia. But automatically thinking people are town or mafia because they are getting everything right or wrong is a dangerous way of thinking. You forget, the mafia knows the answers. In effect, they choose to be right or wrong. When someone gets something right you have to think 'did they choose to get this right, or did they come to the right conclusion naturally?'. The same applies to getting things wrong. I think a better way of explaining my point is that instead of judging people on what they get right and wrong, judge them on what looks fake and what looks natural.
So even though I think In your post you came to a lot of wrong conclusions (or rather, maybe your conclusions are right but your logic behind them I at least consider to be wrong), your post does look very natural to me. I don't think you've really faked anything in that post and I can see why you'd come to the conclusions that you have using the logic that you've stated. Combine that with the fact that I do think it's unlikely that 3/4 mafia would be on Zoey's wagon I do town read you now.
@peace, I'd like to see you make a similar sort of post to 2B55's. Slabdrill and Taskmanager you two also really need to step up because this game is steering closer and closer to a loss and at the moment both of you are very much in the PoE pool.
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uhh Mutant your iso seems to be broken
i can't go to pages 2+ after isolating you
also i hate making large posts
i dont know how do you manage this
We all got fooled by jawapa too. Surely that means that's not a major scum tell either?
The thing is that in jawapa's case you were the one to bring him up as a candidate
Can I just remind y'all what happened with the jawapa vote. I merely suggested him. My expectation was that he should be dicussed as an option but immediately everyone was like 'yeah let's do this!' and voted. One of those players who had that reaction was Norweiganboy.
You knew you had a strong standing in the town, thus people would trust your judgement
I actually feel like someone mentioned this before
Also what would you have discussed there? Cause considering he was town read by pretty much everyone, I don't think anyone would have anything to discuss
We've established from Onjit's flip that the mafia are prepared to frame people so how can you be so sure they're not framing me too?
Onjit got framed because he hammered the jawapa vote
I don't recall you hammering a vote, so can you explain how is mafia potentially framing you rn
Taskmanager, do you agree that you've had very little impact in this game? Because I certainly think that's true. What gives? Usually, you're seen as one of the most valuable players yet in this game you've just been a semi-lurker. Why have you become less helpful in a game where you don't have to worry about being night killed?
Yeah I haven't been as active
It's mostly because this game has no power roles, no roleclaiming, none of that, just plain ol' discussion. Which I find slightly boring tbh
Also the lack of night kills makes the game even more relaxed, because you don't have to worry you'll just suddenly die one night
To say that they are incapable of defending themselves is just insulting to them to be honest.
Uhh, not entirely
Onjit couldn't defend himself because he acted scummy the entire game and you had a ton of arguments against him, against which he only had "i acted scummy on purpose"
2B55 is generally confused (sorry if this comes off as rude, but considering your wagon hopping and self bashing it's true) and he's barely been trying to defend himself, instead he prefers to vote himself (which is what onjit and trytu did too!)
peace is peace and admit it you can't defend when people will gladly policy lynch you because of your inability to type
also peace replaced a person that was completely useless entire game, which makes it even worse for him
I'm not dismissing either 2B or peace as townies, but I do think that IF they are town, they're a very easy target for the mafia
I don't like how you're brandishing everyone I've been suspicious of as low hanging fruit. So many people in this game fit that description. I'd argue that right now even I fit the description of low hanging fruit so what's your excuse?
I'm not "brandishing everyone", thats hella manipulative lol
There surely are other people that you considered suspicious, but these three are the obvious easy targets
I don't think you do fit into that description because you had a strong position in the town, you are capable of defending yourself better than these people in this particular game, and you are able of writing prolonged walls of text in your debates, which makes people consider you a strong player (even though logically it doesn't make sense, people tend to have more trust towards those who write large posts)
Kira has consistently shown a desire to solve the game. Although I don't agree with all of his conclusions, his logic makes sense on how he came to them and the very fact that he's been able to show his logic is proof that his reads and conclusions are genuine. I have similar reasoning to town read Zelda but their posts are not as strong as Kira's. I also think that Kira's initial lack of hope at the start of the game is quite a townie thing to think - if he was mafia, he would be glad of this advantage and possibly not feel the need to mention.
Posts like this stand out to me as townie. He could have just joined the wagon with a simple vote but instead not only did he make it clear that he agreed with me but more importantly he explained why he agreed with me. Just scroll through Kira's iso and you can see for yourself how consistently he does this kind of thing. He explains his logic and actively tries to solve the game when he has time to.
Consistently? The only thing consistent about him is his hopping between "trying to solve the game" and "campaigning for heaven"
Explaining *why* does one agree with someone seems redundant to me. If you have the same opinion as someone else, what is to explain here?
Also, Kira at one point dismissed Trytu and Norboy, and started going for Zelda instead (end of this post and the next one)
Then, slightly later, he does a 180 and votes Trytu again (post)
That feels really scummy to me
Kira wrote:I am going to make a post concerning everything that happened in a few hours. Stay tuned.
This is from Kira's last post
It was 23 hours ago
:thinking:
Multiple people are trying to waste our time with "gonna do X soon" card at this point
Also this was never addressed
Of course, at the time everyone ignored him because we all town read norweiganboy. But hey, Kira was right about him being scum. Maybe it's about time we listened to him.
Uhh you don't seem to have the same approach to Proc despite him being right about Onjit
Instead you tried to silence him by suggesting sending him to heaven
@TaskManager why did you leave Mutant at L-1?
wdym "leave"
I mean, sure, I did put him there but I have a strong feeling that he's mafia soooo
You can notice that at the end (or start) of every person I stated whether they voted for Zoey. I feel like that Zoey bandwagon was a very important bandwagon.
Considering at least two mafia bussed her, I don't think it is a solid scum/town tell anymore
@peace, I'd like to see you make a similar sort of post to 2B55's.
Isn't he banned tho
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The thing is that in jawapa's case you were the one to bring him up as a candidate
So because I voice my opinions that makes me scum does it?
Also what would you have discussed there? Cause considering he was town read by pretty much everyone, I don't think anyone would have anything to discuss
Getting a consensus of who thought it would be a good idea before then actually going through with the vote would have been better like had been done with every other candidate for all previous phases. You could say it was an oversight on my part to not expect a tone of immediate votes given how towny he was, or that I then didn't step in to cool the votes down, but I don't think it's fair to entirely blame me for the mistake of sending jawapa to heaven and I especially don't agree with the idea that I somehow manipulated the town into sending a mafia member to heaven considering when you actually take a look at the situation I actually did very little. And if you're to think that as mafia I'd be self-aware of how just powerful my opinion could be, then surely I'd use that, knowing that the consequence is then losing that trust, to send a teammate that's less likely to get into heaven otherwise? If jawapa was to continue the way he was then he would have ended up in heaven eventually with or without my support.
so can you explain how is mafia potentially framing you rn
Think about it, if I were to, as town, state an opinion that was wrong and benefitted the mafia, why would the mafia then not back it up? They support the idea, and then, when it goes wrong, I take the **** for it. Which is exactly what happened. When I spoke up about jawapa, norweiganboy instantly voted and mentioned he'd been in support of the idea since the previous phase. Then, when Jawapa flips town, I get the blame for being wrong and nobody thinks any ill of norweiganboy over it. And then with my argument with Processor, norweiganboy was backing me every step of the way. Then, when I'm wrong about Onjit, norweiganboy then gets no **** for it and even gets into heaven - this despite the fact that he actively supported every mistake that I've been considered suspicious for. The mafia has been hiding behind my mistakes. You could say that norweiganboy was backing me up because we're on the same team, but do you really think either of us would be so blatantly obvious about it especially given how subtle norweiganboy was with jawapa?
Onjit couldn't defend himself because he acted scummy the entire game and you had a ton of arguments against him, against which he only had "i acted scummy on purpose"
Onjit had the perfect opportunity to prove himself as town. I stated many times that his argument that he was acting scummy on purpose countered literally every single one of my own points against him. What he then failed to do was prove that he had been trying to solve the game behind the scenes. He didn't fail because he wasn't capable, he failed because he wasn't willing to put the effort in.
2B55 is most certainly capable of defending himself - as he has just proven. He just lacks faith in himself sometimes. As for peace I do believe he is capable of giving a convincing argument. The only issue he has is that most people are not willing to decipher what he means.
I'm not "brandishing everyone", thats hella manipulative lol
And you cutting off my statement like this is even more manipulative. I said everyone I've been suspicious of, not everyone in general.
Explaining *why* does one agree with someone seems redundant to me. If you have the same opinion as someone else, what is to explain here?
This is exactly why it's hard to sort you. The more you justify your logic and the motivation, the more likely it is that you're town. Why? Because town's words are genuine and mafia's are effectively lies they have to invent. The more you question a lie the more chance you can see a hole in it. So when you freely offer explanations to your opinions, it shows you have nothing to hide (or that you're really good at lying).
Uhh you don't seem to have the same approach to Proc despite him being right about Onjit
Instead you tried to silence him by suggesting sending him to heaven
Proc currently isn't campaigning for anything other than me being scum (which I obviously know he's wrong on). Other than that, his only other significant opinion is that Zelda is scummy. But unlike Kira he hasn't really provided much of a reason to lynch Zelda. I'm perfectly willing to listen to Proc if he actually presents a case on Zelda.
Where did I try to silence Proc? I made it explicitly clear that I didn't want to send proc to heaven. Accusing me of trying to get proc into heaven is the equivalent of cutting someone off mid-sentence to twist what they're trying to say. The statement that I was making is that proc's 'playstyle' is better suited to a judgement day decision than it is trying to convince other living townies to follow him. And no point did I ever say that I wanted him in heaven.
Isn't he banned tho
oh. Well that certainly makes things more difficult.
Can whoever is teamed with peace ask him to respond to my post in your mafia chat and then post his response here on his behalf?
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Alive players: 9
Mafia: 2
Town: 7
The Zoey2070 bandwagon is perhaps the most interesting bandwagon, as half of the mafia (excluding Zoey), 2/4, voted to sent her to hell, and this had all of us fooled. So, how safe is it to assume that AT LEAST one of the other two mafia remaining voted for her?
Zoey2070 [8]: Processor, mutantdevle, TaskManager, Kirby, 2B55B5G TNG, Kira, NorwegianboyEE, mrjawapa
Removing confirmed mafia and confirmed town:
Processor, mutantdevle, TaskManager, 2B55B5G TNG, Kira
Previously in the game, I considered mutantdevle to be certain town because he was the main person to cause the lynch of Zoey. However, MrJawapa was also very aggresive towards Zoey, even before mutantdevle pointed out the discrepancies in her arguments, and he turned out to be mafia. So, the Zoey lynch doesn't ensure us that mutantdevle is townie.
I'll rate people out of 10
10 = more town
0 = more scum
Slabdrill
Processor
Peace
2B55B5G
mutantdevle
Kira
Crybaby & Taskmanager (lumped together because they give me the same vibes)
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1) doesn't care about being sent to hell 2) votes himself to heaven, not caring about it at all
should be:
1) doesn't care about being sent to hell 2) votes himself to hell, not caring about it at all
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peace, Slabdrill, Zelda and TaskManager are the 4 people that I'm not certain of. I find it hard to believe that the final 2 mafia aren't in that group.
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With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to send a smiley to HELL. mutantdevle [2]: Crybaby, TaskManager
2B [1]: Kira
Kira [1]: 2B
Not voting [5]: Everyone else
This phase will enter overtime in 48 hours.
Mod notes:
It's hot as h*ck in here!
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so tbh i wouldn't mind going to hell if it means i dont have to analyze every post again (as going to heaven would probably require). guess i'll do that now though.
i'd give an analysis of each person but iso being broken (...wait its only broken for specific people?? fix your forums diff) makes that incredibly annoying to do, so i'll just wing it:
zelda (+1) - Given town vibes the entire game and never had anything break my opinion of that. Did support sending norboy to heaven (but so did like half of us, which is why i'm not counting it against them).
proc (+0.5) - Very useful, with the objective information provided. Doesn't provide enough explanations for all of his reads, which I think is important instead of focusing on one or two specific ones.
peace (0) - i can't figure anything out about them.
2b (0) - why do you think the zoey bandwagon was important? it seems like a really weird thing to judge on when at least two mafias were part of it. every bandwagon should be considered, even if they were on people who were acting really suspicious. I think your reads are legitimate apart from that, and I agree with most of the text (but obviously, i'm not going to use what you said for this list). (ps. +0.5 on my last reads list was essentially neutral leaning town considering how it was the median).
mutant (+1) - i'm edging slightly against town now compared to before due to you not having given as much general mafia strategy that everyone seems to miss. that's probably due to a lack of opportunity, but that was the main reason for me thinking that you're a townie. (it might also be because i disagree with it slightly more, but im not sure).
kira (0) - Feels town-ish, despite the inactivity. i understand not having enough time though and it's a good reason, however if you don't have enough town then what good will you do if we make enough mislynches for a judgment day?
mini (+0.5) - I don't have much to say except that you feel like town because of the invisible text stunt. I know there's a chance it doesn't matter, but I think it does.
maxi (-0.5) - i dont like making big posts either, thats why i dont (these short sentences explaining what i think of everyone is all i ever post in mafia games). anyway i think you should post something like this list, it would help you be less suspicious (and less prone to policy lynches).
tl;dr suspicions go to peace, 2b, kira, maxi
suddenly random sig change
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Mutant voicing your opinions doesn't make you scum and that's an odd way to put it, it's that your opinions turn out to be beneficial to mafia
It's slightly similar to your argument against Onjit saying "you've consistently been on the wrong side of a vote"
You did little in the Jawapa's wagon but that was enough to swing the town's opinion in the necessary way
And losing the trust seemingly had paid off, considering there's 2 mafias in heaven already
Onjit's chances to prove himself as town were slim because eventually he gave you a summary and you still dismissed it since apparently it's not what you wanted from him,
after that I suppose he stopped giving a **** about the game entirely
2B55 finally started defending himself but until now my point stood and you/kira pushed for him prior to that
And you cutting off my statement like this is even more manipulative. I said everyone I've been suspicious of, not everyone in general.
Wow ain't that nitpicking
Literally in the next row I did say "people that you considered suspicious"
It's like you saw that flaw of not including the entire sentence in quotation marks and decided to play the "no u" card. Even though the entire sentence with "I've been suspicious of" is in the quote tags
This is exactly why it's hard to sort you. The more you justify your logic and the motivation, the more likely it is that you're town. Why? Because town's words are genuine and mafia's are effectively lies they have to invent. The more you question a lie the more chance you can see a hole in it. So when you freely offer explanations to your opinions, it shows you have nothing to hide (or that you're really good at lying).
A mafia player could easily grab the statement that they agree with, rephrase it, and post it as their own
Proc currently isn't campaigning for anything other than me being scum (which I obviously know he's wrong on). Other than that, his only other significant opinion is that Zelda is scummy. But unlike Kira he hasn't really provided much of a reason to lynch Zelda. I'm perfectly willing to listen to Proc if he actually presents a case on Zelda.
Presents a case, yeah, yet in Kira's case it was simply "maybe about time we listened to him"
Where did I try to silence Proc? I made it explicitly clear that I didn't want to send proc to heaven. Accusing me of trying to get proc into heaven is the equivalent of cutting someone off mid-sentence to twist what they're trying to say. The statement that I was making is that proc's 'playstyle' is better suited to a judgement day decision than it is trying to convince other living townies to follow him. And no point did I ever say that I wanted him in heaven.
Well, you wouldn't have to explicitly say you want him in heaven, would you?
Writing a paragraph about his playstyle and saying "y'all should definitely strongly consider him for heaven" is a solid enough implication
I also recall you saying at one point how we shouldn't bother with judg day much because it's unlikely to happen, so why suddenly mention it
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it's that your opinions turn out to be beneficial to mafia
Do you not consider it a possibility that I'm simply wrong about these things and that the mafia has been hiding behind me like norweiganboy did?
And losing the trust seemingly had paid off, considering there's 2 mafias in heaven already
My point was never that it wouldn't happen, my point was that losing the trust would be much more worth it if it was used to get a much less town-read teammate into heaven. I think given the way jawapa was playing it was inevitable that he was going to get into heaven at some point.
Onjit's chances to prove himself as town were slim because eventually he gave you a summary and you still dismissed it since apparently it's not what you wanted from him,
No, he made his own chances slim by the length of time he was taking to make that first post and then make posts thereafter. I made it clear what I wanted from him BEFORE he made that post and he even stated he knew that the post he made didn't fully meet that. He very clearly intended to make a second post but never did.
Literally in the next row I did say "people that you considered suspicious"
It's like you saw that flaw of not including the entire sentence in quotation marks and decided to play the "no u" card. Even though the entire sentence with "I've been suspicious of" is in the quote tags
I misinterpreted what you were saying, my apologies.
A mafia player could easily grab the statement that they agree with, rephrase it, and post it as their own
And why is this a reason for you to not explain your point of view?
But yeah, mafia can do that, that's why it's not as easy as going "that person is genuine and that person isn't" to solve a game. But here's the thing, the more someone does that the more it becomes obvious. That's why sheeping is considered scummy. But Kira did not simply rephrase what I said, he had his own things to add. Furthermore, throughout the game he has had several unique points of view - the main one of which I pointed out in my post.
Presents a case, yeah, yet in Kira's case it was simply "maybe about time we listened to him"
Did you even read my whole post? I literally highlighted all of Kira's main points that he made about norweiganboy and 2B55. That was worth listening to. Since then, I've disagreed with his conclusion again. But 2B55 was definitely worth investigating especially after half of the statement Kira was making was proven right.
Well, you wouldn't have to explicitly say you want him in heaven, would you?
Writing a paragraph about his playstyle and saying "y'all should definitely strongly consider him for heaven" is a solid enough implication
I also recall you saying at one point how we shouldn't bother with judg day much because it's unlikely to happen, so why suddenly mention it
The main reason I said it, like most of things I say, is to gauge what people think of it (additionally, recording you general thoughts in the game even if they don't amount to anything is a good way of allowing others to read you easier). In this instance, I was looking for 2 reactions in particular based on the fact that no one was really suggesting him. 1: if anyone would then support sending proc to heaven based on what I said. 2: if anyone felt the need to say that although they town read proc, they disagree with my conclusion. Responding with option 1 I would consider scummy whilst option 2 is townie - though this is flexible depending on the justification they'd give behind why. Unfortunately, no one responded with either of these things. I personally blame the lack of response on the fact that over the course of several games we've allowed a culture of not justifying yourself - something you seem to be totally fine with. But just because it didn't give me any new information to work with doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying.
Also, my comments on judgement day being mostly irrelevent were made after this post. Previously to that, my stance was 'we shouldn't hold judgement day as highly as we are' as it seemed like every decision being made was being made with judgement day in mind at the time.
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@Processor, do you intend to go to heaven after my flip?
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I have to take a closer look at your voters before I finalize my vote on you. But yeah, I'll be open to heavening.
I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.
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I don't want you going to heaven. I currently town read you but not nearly enough to ever approve of you going to heaven. If y'all are only going to remember one thing I've said after my death it's that you should not send processor to heaven. Don't send him to hell either. Just listen to his opinions on others.
I hope after my death that you realise being wrong about things isn't a sign someone is mafia. I also hope that the town doesn't turn on you like they turned on me.
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With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to send a smiley to HELL. mutantdevle [3]: Crybaby, TaskManager, Processor
2B [1]: Kira
Kira [1]: 2B
Not voting [4]: Everyone else
This phase will enter overtime in 31 hours.
Mod notes:
when was your birthday? August 25th?
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Remember when I suggested NorwegianboyEE as an alternative to mrjawapa?
https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … 23#p756323
What do you think of the posts that follow (e.g. Zelda and Crybaby unvoting), @mutantdevle?
I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.
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Or this one?
I'm honestly fine with both Norweiganboy OR jawapa being sent to heaven.
I have never thought of programming for reputation and honor. What I have in my heart must come out. That is the reason why I code.
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With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to send a smiley to HELL. mutantdevle [1]: TaskManager
2B [1]: Kira
Kira [1]: 2B
Not voting [6]: Everyone else
This phase will enter overtime in 24 hours.
Mod notes:
Railmat is scheduled to replace peace, since peace is banned. We are waiting on him to confirm, and then he'll be in.
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