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#1 2019-03-29 02:28:15, last edited by Processor (2019-03-29 02:42:44)

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,025

Xenonetix, show us your finances!

EE is funded through the community, through Patreon.
Therefore, we have a right to know where that money goes.

There are five aspects that I think are of particular interest:
- Xenonetix' own income
- Money spent on the flash game
- Money spent developing EEU
- Money saved
- Budget structure

Let's go through them one by one.

Xenonetix' own income
Xenonetix is the owner. Future profits of a successful EEU will go to him, that should provide him with enough incentive to work now for no pay (invest in the game).
How much is he paying himself and what justifies this income? Does he need this extra income from EE to pay his bills? (EE cannot support him full-time anyway)

Money spent on the flash game
This covers costs of hosting PlayerIO servers, paying for the domain, paying for staff, paying developers to fix bugs or add new features to the old game.
Keeping the old game up makes sense, but the amount of investment needs to be regulated and justified. Make an offline client? Absolutely! Add hotkeys to the game? Probably not...
Any developer hour spent on the old flash game is an hour taken from EEU. Developers are paid and have limited time.

The strategy should be to spend as little as possible to keep the old game alive while EEU rolls out.
Any excess money spent on the old game is your money thrown out of the window.

Money spent developing EEU
It's not hard to categorize the split, given that the only major costs of EEU are the developers and designers.
The formula for this could be: developer costs * developer time on EEU / (developer time on EEU + developer time on flash EE)
Is this metric even tracked? It should be! It's why we are supporting you guys on Patreon, right?

Money saved
How much money is saved?
How much of it is reserved for advertising?
How much of it is reserved for going to conventions?

Is spending $12000 on gamescom going to be worth it? How about less riskier options?

Budget structure
The Patreon page shows us unhelpful pie charts (with no numbers) of how the game would hypothetically spend its money if it had $1000/$2000/$3000/$4000 a month.
Xenonetix currently earns $366 per month on Patreon, that's far less than what we're given. Additional revenue streams are: PayPal and flash EE income. (How high are these?)

Let's go through the labels:
- Advertising? Currently not needed.
- Domains? Already paid for till 05/2020.
- Reboot-severs? Currently not needed. 
- Taxes and Patreon fees? Don't consider them part of your income please.
- Staff/Equipment? Are they working on flash EE (mods, devs) or EEU?

These aren't "relatively accurate"...

Does the staff have a plan on how to split the funds with current funding levels (under $1000)? Did the past months' spending individually follow this plan?

So, I asked around
- Xenonetix refused to name any numbers, but said that "the majority of the funding is going into the advertising budget for EEU".
- "Far more than 50% [of income] is going towards EEU" (Has that been true in the past?)
- Joshua Stone is solely working on EEU (What about that time when Josh was working on hotkeys and new lobby for the flash game?)
- Staff members don't seem to have an overview of EE's finances either. (Are they left in the dark just like we are?)
- The numbers in this thread do not answer the questions I am asking.


Lastly, a quick reminder:
Do you remember what happened, last time the EE owner refused to tell anyone about how the money was being managed? NVD was their name, I think!
Public companies publicize their finances every quarter. Why does Xenonetix hide them?


@Xenonetix: I am not asking for a wall of text reply. I want numbers!


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#2 2019-03-29 07:48:39

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,323

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

proc, did you check the patreon page itself or not? because its lieraly writen there fqsR1G.jpg


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#3 2019-03-29 08:38:35

Anatoly
Guest

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Processor wrote:

ublic companies publicize their finances every quarter.

In history we learned that the German Führer in the 1933-1939 (before the war starts) also have been hiding the finances of the German empire. Point is, that if the followers knew how bad the economy of the game state is, then people would stop donating supporting his party. The same goes for the game:

No money from patron -> No EEU.

#4 2019-03-29 10:04:07

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,025

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

@peace: read my post. I explain why I do not believe the pie charts explain how EE's finances are being currently handled.
@Anatoly: It's not about how much EE earns in total, we already know that. It's about how the money is being managed.


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#5 2019-03-29 12:04:03

Anatoly
Guest

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Processor wrote:

@peace: read my post. I explain why I do not believe the pie charts explain how EE's finances are being currently handled.
@Anatoly: It's not about how much EE earns in total, we already know that. It's about how the money is being managed.

Then it's me who misunderstood here. Sorry.

However, I'd like to protect Processor in this Xeno-Proc battle.

@Xenonetix: You fired Phinarose because she told you "what you should have done" and not "what you should do". We now tell you "what to do". Later it will be the "what you should have done" warning, and this will not be only uncomfortable for you, it will be the last time EE will have an owner, and this is not what we want. Believe me, such economical information should be told, especially in the current state of the game. If people will support you, and you'll leave with the money, it will uncomfortable, illegal and simply bad.

EE had a list of bad owners, and believe me, do you want to be the next one in the list, or will you listen here to the message of the people here and help yourself, the game, and the community?

#6 2019-03-29 12:39:06

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,125

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

>tmw you're xeno and you're like "yay proc closed his data leak topic, finally the drama is over"
>but then he makes another one
oh god oh ****


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#7 2019-03-29 13:17:42

Anatoly
Guest

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

TaskManager wrote:

>tmw you're xeno and you're like "yay proc closed his data leak topic, finally the drama is over"
>but then he makes another one
oh god oh ****

Also true. But still processor discusses things we need to know, not what we want to know.

#8 2019-03-29 13:38:49

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 2,180

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Are the staff of a company - even a tiny one like EE - obliged to disclose their earnings?

Generally no, but given that it’s a mostly crowdfunded enterprise, there’s room for debate.

EE is unusual in that its community is intimately involved in the goings-on behind the scenes. That’s great, but some people decide that this makes them board members with rightly-deserved influence over decision-making. While their intentions may be good, the resulting crusades are very misguided.

I wonder if those people ever stop to consider that maybe - just maybe - staff are in a better position to make good decisions than semi-informed spectators.

My point is that it’s almost inevitable that no matter what the numbers are, people will be outraged, drama will start and - yet again - the end result will be crappy for everyone.

EE is a business, not a charity. People don’t work for free.


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#9 2019-03-29 13:45:36

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,878

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Processor wrote:

EE is funded through the community, through Patreon.
Therefore, we have a right to know where that money goes.

Technically, we don't have a right to know where money goes. It's our (not personally mine) choice to give xenonetix money. It's Xenonetix's choice to do whatever he wants with it.

If you don't trust the owner - don't fund the game. EE is not obliged to disclose it's money flow.

But if xenonetix is fine with it - he might want to do that. If money is spent correctly and the community likes where everything goes, it might increase ee's revenue

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#10 2019-03-29 14:01:43

Processor
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 2,025

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

I want an overview of EE's spending in the past.

- How much did Xenonetix earn?
- How much money went to EEU?
- How much money went to flash EE?
- How much money was saved?

The community should have this information to make decisions on whether or not they want to financially support EE on Patreon.

Additionally, I point out that the budget pie chart on Patreon is unhelpful.

---

While there is no legal penalty if EE does not lay out its finances, it is generally something every investor / donor requests before giving a company their money.
I don't want influence over decision making, I want transparency.


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#11 2019-03-29 14:03:50

Guest.
Guest

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

considering xenonetix admitted that he’s bought like 5 cars and went nearly bankrupt because of it, i’m guessing this is linked to why he won’t share numbers

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#12 2019-03-29 15:34:52

Anatoly
Guest

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Gosha wrote:
Processor wrote:

EE is funded through the community, through Patreon.
Therefore, we have a right to know where that money goes.

Technically, we don't have a right to know where money goes. It's our (not personally mine) choice to give xenonetix money. It's Xenonetix's choice to do whatever he wants with it.

If you don't trust the owner - don't fund the game. EE is not obliged to disclose it's money flow.

But if xenonetix is fine with it - he might want to do that. If money is spent correctly and the community likes where everything goes, it might increase ee's revenue

However when the game will be about to die completely people will want to get their money back.

Jet wrote:

considering xenonetix admitted that he’s bought like 5 cars and went nearly bankrupt because of it, i’m guessing this is linked to why he won’t share numbers

epic. sources?

Processor wrote:

I want an overview of EE's spending in the past.

- How much did Xenonetix earn?
- How much money went to EEU?
- How much money went to flash EE?
- How much money was saved?

The community should have this information to make decisions on whether or not they want to financially support EE on Patreon.

Additionally, I point out that the budget pie chart on Patreon is unhelpful.

---

While there is no legal penalty if EE does not lay out its finances, it is generally something every investor / donor requests before giving a company their money.
I don't want influence over decision making, I want transparency.

"Information only for patrons."

#13 2019-03-29 15:38:35

272
Member
From: Everywhere
Joined: 2015-08-26
Posts: 330

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Tomahawk wrote:

EE is a business, not a charity.

A very poor business.


Despite what people say, Different55 is the best mod.

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#14 2019-03-29 15:42:49

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,323

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Gosha wrote:
Processor wrote:

EE is funded through the community, through Patreon.
Therefore, we have a right to know where that money goes.

Technically, we don't have a right to know where money goes. It's our (not personally mine) choice to give xenonetix money. It's Xenonetix's choice to do whatever he wants with it.

If you don't trust the owner - don't fund the game. EE is not obliged to disclose it's money flow.

But if xenonetix is fine with it - he might want to do that. If money is spent correctly and the community likes where everything goes, it might increase ee's revenue

i can understand people wan tto know wher emoney goe sbefore suportign a random patreon


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#15 2019-03-29 15:46:06

272
Member
From: Everywhere
Joined: 2015-08-26
Posts: 330

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Processor wrote:

Do you remember what happened, last time the EE owner refused to tell anyone about how the money was being managed? NVD was their name, I think!

I'm a bit out of the loop. What happened with NVD?


Despite what people say, Different55 is the best mod.

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#16 2019-03-29 16:09:14, last edited by Luka504 (2019-03-29 16:11:41)

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,574

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Even though Xeno has no obligation to do something, that doesn't mean he shouldn't do it. Personally, I don't really care too much about the financial state of EE - as long as it works, I'm happy. But it is something that people should know about if they request to.

Plus, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't somewhat curious myself.


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#17 2019-03-29 16:10:20

ILikeTofuuJoe
Member
From: Obvervable Universe
Joined: 2018-06-04
Posts: 1,732
Website

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

I think Xenonetix wants us to think that our money is going to be spent on the games, and not for personal income. The reason of the pie charts' $#/month is so big might just because Xenonetix wants to make the actual finances of the business unpredictable for the comunity. That way Xenonetix can hide the almost bankrupt part. Xenonetix thinks that that would increse the income from patreon. All of this is just my guess and have no clear evidence.


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#18 2019-03-29 16:23:00

Nou
Member
Joined: 2015-02-24
Posts: 2,753

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

272 wrote:
Processor wrote:

Do you remember what happened, last time the EE owner refused to tell anyone about how the money was being managed? NVD was their name, I think!

I'm a bit out of the loop. What happened with NVD?

He spent EE money on buying a new gaming pc for himself and bought games for his girlfriend and lied about it. Some more stuff too


No u.

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#19 2019-03-29 16:28:18

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,878

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Jet wrote:

considering xenonetix admitted that he’s bought like 5 cars and went nearly bankrupt because of it, i’m guessing this is linked to why he won’t share numbers

Also he lost his job right before opening patreon funding :thinking:

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#20 2019-03-29 16:34:55

ILikeTofuuJoe
Member
From: Obvervable Universe
Joined: 2018-06-04
Posts: 1,732
Website

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Gosha wrote:
Jet wrote:

considering xenonetix admitted that he’s bought like 5 cars and went nearly bankrupt because of it, i’m guessing this is linked to why he won’t share numbers

Also he lost his job right before opening patreon funding :thinking:

So he probably uses patreon income as his personal income.


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#21 2019-03-29 18:35:03

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 6,323

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

ILikeTofuuJoe wrote:
Gosha wrote:
Jet wrote:

considering xenonetix admitted that he’s bought like 5 cars and went nearly bankrupt because of it, i’m guessing this is linked to why he won’t share numbers

Also he lost his job right before opening patreon funding :thinking:

So he probably uses patreon income as his personal income.

ofc he uses a part of it as tis still bussiness


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#22 2019-03-31 01:43:34

sxrrealism
Formerly Arizona0117
From: europe
Joined: 2018-06-08
Posts: 394

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Nou wrote:

He spent EE money on buying a new gaming pc for himself and bought games for his girlfriend and lied about it. Some more stuff too

me as an owner


👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

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#23 2019-04-01 16:32:54

Xenonetix
EE Owner (Formerly Mega Lamb)
From: Working on EEU
Joined: 2015-03-07
Posts: 849
Website

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

I think this video should satisfactorily explain everything:

https://youtu.be/lPYwcTDVRAg


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#24 2019-04-01 18:11:01

Zumza
Member
From: root
Joined: 2015-02-17
Posts: 4,496

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Xenonetix wrote:

I think this video should satisfactorily explain everything:

https://youtu.be/lPYwcTDVRAg

I suppose that's exactly what the patrons will receive in the end. Thanks for the demo!


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#25 2019-04-01 19:15:50

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,574

Re: Xenonetix, show us your finances!

Thanks for showing us EEU's progress xeno, I'm so hyped <3


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