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RhazzleFrazzle

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Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

So after game 6, I decided I would phase out some mechanics I consider to be a crutch. I already don't use last wills, but starting this game I will remove two things. Night feedback is being removed, meaning you won't be told if you get roleblocked, if an attack against you fails, or any other action is performed on you. Dying and investigative results are the exception. Secondly, I will no longer distinguish how any player dies. I will no longer say killed by the Mafia/Serial Killer/Vigilante, and will just say a player died last night.

To start this out, I will be doing a tried and true setup from Mafiascum.

▼I asked Bobithan to color code the setup and he gave me this

One of the rows or columns will be picked by RNG, and those 3 roles will be used. 5 Citizens and 1 Mafia goon will be added to create a 9 player game.

The following rules are in play, and please don't talk about the game outside of the thread/Mafia chat under any circumstance without my permission. No exceptions.

1. All forum rules apply, however spam and multi-posting rules are more lenient. So long as your posts are relevant to the game it shouldn't be an issue, but don't push it.

2. Do not post in this thread unless you are alive in the game. All posts made by dead players and people not in the game will be deleted. No exceptions.

3. You may not edit or delete your posts. This function will be disabled in this game.

4. Do not quote someone else's post and edit for misleading purposes.

5. You must stay active and contribute to discussion to stay in the game. If you stay inactive too long, you will be prodded for inactivity and replaced if you don't respond to the prod within 24 hours. Earning more than one prod will result in you being replaced or modkilled.

6. Do not quote, copy paste, or screenshot any message sent by the game moderator for any reason. Paraphrasing is allowed, such as saying what your role is or does, but don't copy paste an entire role pm word for word.

7. Do not gamethrow. Gamethrowing is defined as actively working against your role/faction's win condition, and is dealt with on a case by case basis.

8. As soon as a majority is reached, it counts as the day being over. The moderator may not be there to lock the thread immediately so do not post after majority is reached.

9. You may not talk about the game with living players through any means other than the game thread and Mafia night chat. No exceptions.

10. Remember that this is just a game. If I see any form of harassment that may warrant a replacement or modkill.

11. If any player breaks any of these rules please private message me on the forums and I will deal with it. Do not use the forums report feature to report someone breaking one of the game rules unless they are also breaking a forum rule.

12. The moderator's word is final. If I say not to do something it means don't do it. If you have an issue then it's best to save until the end of the game as to not interfere with the game.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Hi everyone. Let's bring back the legend which tells either I or Processor has to die the 1st day.

!vote Processor

AlphaJon

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Posts: 1,297

Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Hi everyone. Let's bring back the legend which tells either I or Processor has to die the 1st day.

!vote Processor

No, no.  We have to die during the night!

Oh, crap.

!unvote

Maxi seems scummy, as usual.

!vote Maxi123

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Can't we all vote everyone at the same time and finish the game instantly? obviously town wins in this case because there are 7 while mafia are only 2.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

oh, right,
!doublevote Bimps
Hopefully he'll get lynched in the mafia he's playing

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

BURN HIM WITH FIRE!!!

*casting fireball* (It takes a while, I'm an Ice Mage, so, err, see ya tomorrow )

Ice Mage: Every night you may create ice cream to give to another player, selaying his night action by 10 minutes. You are immune to the Water Mage's rain, because you live in an Igloo. The Earth Mage is immune to your ice creams, because he only likes to eat dirt.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

AlphaJon are you mafia?

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Yet, criminals like you are still scared of them.

You keep dodging the question, kinda worrisome.

Can I give him an ice cream?

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Calicara vs Kaslai confirmed.
Now, while the mislynch chance is high (7/9), it's our only way to get mafia down, waiting for a possible vig isn't an option. It also means that if we do get 1 mafia, that will reduce their nulber in half, while town loses about 1/7.
Remember that we have to act early before mafia gets to kill half of us, because then it will be even harder to lynch.

Btw my votes are random atm, it doesn't mean that I won't help, unless someone pulls the "lynch in 30mins" again

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

waiting for a possible vig isn't an option.

About that. There's no vig at all in the setup, actually.
Now, in order to help identify the setup we're in, I'm going to make a claim. I'm the bulletproof citizen. Which means that I will need to take 2 shots to die. Which leads to setup being either Column A or row 3. Now the important thing is to know if there is a Consort or not. I will also ask the tracker and the jailkeeper to not claim either. If there happens to be another PR, well, something went wrong
@Everyone: please noone else roleclaim. I did mine because I can't actually die, unless mafia wants to waste a night to pop the shield.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

This has been mentioned before but how does starting with an even amount of players give us a better chance at winning?

Because with 8 players, you need to get 5 out of 6 town to agree on a mafia lynch [and 3 out of 6 for a mislynch if mafia put votes in].
With 9 players, you need 5 out of 7, which is easier to achieve, while still being 3 town votes minimum for a mislynch, if both mafias vote.
This is because votes have to be strictly >50%, otherwise it it was >=50%, even numbers would gain advantage.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Also, lynching helps keep the odd number advantage, because one lynch + one mafia kill = odd stays odd

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Ok, now that everyone has acknowledged my claim, I will say something else.
I'm not actually a bulletproof. I claimed it in order to eliminate the C row and the A column, because it's the only role I could go to without looking dumb.
I repeat, I am not a bulletproof townie.
Unless the actual bulletproof didn't bother counterclaiming, which I doubt, there is no bulletproof, reducing the chance of a Consort to 1/4, and the Consort would come with Sheriff and Doctor, which is to me a winning combo if done right.
Now row B is tricky, because it consists of 2 very valuable roles, and I don't want to mess them up.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

If I was scum, I wouldn't have claimed that in the first place, let alone revert my claim after people had believed me.

What if you didn't give them enough time to counterclaim?

Everyone posted. I consider it fair to assume that the guy would have counterclaimed.

Risking town a mislynch and a hardclaim on a potentially powerful role?

Well, worst case scenario, the mislynch would go to me. And I consider having a confirmed town better than a 1/7 chance of mafia losing a night.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Well, I didn't want it to last long, because if any role from the other rows/columns died, I'd get insta-lynched the following day.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

This still doesn't rule out games A and 3.

Exactly. The actual PRs could just be holding their cards close to their chest and letting you self destruct. For all we know, one of the players might in fact be a bulletproof townie, and simply wasn't dumb enough to counterclaim.

While I agree that the PRs don't want to reveal himself, a counterclaim would have confirmed one hardly-killable town which would as a result stay until the end-game.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

But if the mafia doesn't know who's bulletproof, that's potentially two whole kills that they could spend on one person. So by telling them who is bulletproof, you tell the mafia who to not waste their factional kill on. You're effectively handing them two kills on a silver platter at that point.

So, I'm going to explain it using maths. There was a 1/3 chance of a bulletproof being there. On that bulletproof, mafia has a 1/7 chance of targeting him. That makes it a 1/21 chance, which is ~5%. And a 5% chance of a 1 night delay isn't that much powerful.

I can see a sherrif revealing themselves. Or maybe even the doctor, a 1v1 PR for Scum trade isn't THAT bad.

Pls, no. Having them reveal would have been doom. And the players in here are quite good. I don't see anyone here claiming these 2.

AlphaJon is scum in either A2 or B3 and was trying to confirm whether or not the town has any protective roles by seeing if there is a bulletproof town and using that info to determine who the last PR is.

Row 2: that would be pure suicide. I'd have the sheriff on my back, and a doctor protecting him. I wouldn't gain anything.
Col A: I'd get roleblocked by the jailkeeper and lose my night action and kill ability. GG WP, another useless thing.
B3: It's a goon. I'd have no way of knowing if the goon is B3 or C1. Too many risks for low rewards. I'd get to know there is a tracker. woo!

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

But the maths break down when you take into account the fact that if the bulletproof did a valid counterclaim, the mafia then knows who it is... Which then makes the mafia 100% likely to NOT attack that person.

I'd rather have a confirmed town than a small chance to gain a night.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Also, a doctor claiming bulletproof would have been epic, but sadly I believe (s)he didn't think of it

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

If I wanted to force out roles, I would have claimed Sheriff pretending to look for doctor heals while I look for people. But I went for bulletproof because it's fundamentally the only PR who doesn't risk death by claiming.
You all need to think carefully. I'll explain here my complete reasoning.

I am in mafia 7 game.
There is a Bulletproof(33%), or there isn't(67%).

I claim Bulletproof

If there is one:
- Someone counterclaims(that's the one I expected to almost surely happen in this case), making him confirmed town -> one less person to look for, plus has passive immunity. Also we can exclude 2 rows and 2 columns, and keep column A and row 3.
OR
- He doesn't counterclaim, making the overall thing useless. (This one has a <5% chance to happen if you ask me, because why would the legit one not counterclaim?)

If there is none:
- Obviously noone counterclaims. I retract my claim ,which I could easily have kept until the Sheriff finds a mafia and claims in doing so (or a doctor but that would be dumb of him), or indefinitely if there was none. I didn't.
-- Result: there is no column A or row 3. Sheriff and doctor each get a 50% chance of being there, including 25% chance to be together. My current guess is on row 1, though, which is basically a heal+ anti-mafia kill (Jailkeeper isn't grouped with any other town PR, so the only thing he can block are mafia kills by targeting the mafia or the target) ---> We are in this case, I'm 95% sure of it(about half-sure for row 1).

Misc: I actually tried to make something good out of D1, which is usually just funchat and a random vote. Obviously, it wouldn't suddenly make mafia appear, but it helps reduce the possibilities. It's still better than any pure random solution.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

I'm curious as to what would have happened if there was a bulletproof. I don't envision that would have ended well for you, AlphaJon.

I actually believe this setup to have good enough players to understand that I wouldn't blindy claim a role just so I become "towny". The only non-counterable claim would have been Tracker, and that's only if there is one Consort, since a 2-goon setup basically spans the whole grid except consort.
There's no way I would have done the same in a mafia6-like player setup.

There are major flaws with the mafia point of view, also.
- This is risking one mafia for one less immediate target.
- The mafia cannot know in any way which roles may be ot not be there, except tracker if there is a consort.
- I doubt the 2 mafias would agree to such a plan (they have daychat).
- In case of a sheriff being there, it would almost force him to check the guy who claimed -> gg wp one less mafia
- Even after all that, keeping the claim is way less risky than reverting it, because there are 3 setups where this makes sense for everyone (row 1 included because the only PR is column-crossed with bulletproof)

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

I have to admit that I shouldn't have revert-claimed that early. Waiting D2 would have given better results, but at this point having someone else find out (eg a Sheriff found mafia and claimed) would have doomed me.
Now, if I was a sheriff or doctor, I'd make the claim too, in order to have mafia not target me, while I investigate/heal safely. And at the same time, noone would counterclaim because the only one who could is doctor. I'd keep the claim in that case.

I'll be as open as possible. Ask me any question I can answer, and I'll do so. Except hardclaiming my actual role, I keep that as a last resort.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

Are you mafia?

No, and obviously, everyone here is going to answer the same

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

did you actually think that the real bulletproof would counterclaim considering that would be just stupid as mafia would avoid killing him + you told everyone to not hardclaim?

Honestly, I really considered the bullerproof to counter me. I specifically asked for the other roles to not claim, because I don't want to have them die to the mafia.

@Everyone: why do you consider a real bulletproof claim a bad thing? That's one confirmed town, and by confirming people you get mafia.

AlphaJon

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Re: Mafia 7 game thread:Matrix 6 (Mafia wins!!!)

The conversation has hit an awkward silence...

I'm willing to just call AlphaJon the Village Idiot, and I'm still standing by my nolynch.

I may be a village idiot, but in the meantime, if you pay attention, you will get reads on other people than myself from this (at least for the ones who posted enough)