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#1 Re: Questions and Answers » Could a skilled developer team finish EEU from scratch in 1 year? » 2020-11-13 01:04:54

From personal experience, getting up to a release version with the intention of future updates (eg visual extensions and minor additions such as more magic rewards or quality of life improvements (whether from a playing or building perspective)), I'd say, you'd roughly neeeeed...

  • Proper server with infrastructure. Depending on the scale, infrastructure can remain fairly manual at the start, but you'd likely want to switch over to automatic scaling eventually.

  • Core gameplay (physics, replication (online parts) & movement).

  • Extensions on gameplay for diversity (this is where stuff like portals and gravity boosters come into play).

  • Gameplay artstyle with the minimum required component to cement that (x amount of smileys and block packs).

  • Menuing, both visuals and UX (user experience, aka ease of use).

Now, obviously all of this depends on some other elements, such as if you want to make your own engine, use stuff that's already being used, and if so, what (eg. UE4 has some pretty solid replication in place which is pretty easy to work with, but not that suited for 2D, whilst with Unity replication can be a bit more of a hassle).
Atm assuming you want to go for a semi-custom engine in JS (working based off a framework, but not a full engine), which also means custom replication (which I believe accurately enough shows the current method of development).
Another big assumption: Design is fully done, so it's just implementing featuresets. Normally this also costs a lot of time and can sometimes form a bottleneck (causing delays for other teams). Don't believe this is currently the case for EEU (the design being finished, I mean).
Going to assume all team members haaaave... Let's say 2 years of field experience (so after school, and I'm even going to exclude all internships aside from a potential graduation internship)

(disclaimer, I'm a programmer and designer, so art is based on what I passively gather from the artist at my work)
I'd say, graphics team of 1 person with 1 FTE (ie full-time, 40 hour weeks) should suffice within a month, where pinning down the style will take most of the work (this includes art iterations).
Optionally you could take 1 more person for UI/UX which works closely with the artist, but doubt he'll have 1 FTE worth of work in that month.
Programming... I'd say 4+ FTE with working on the engine, this would entail physics/movement, some form of (custom) replication and the portions that shift the framework into an engine (modularity, ease of adding content, able to stitch everything together seamlessly).
Probably want 1 additional FTE handling infrastructure and tightly working with who-ever is responsible for replication.

Only thing I'm currently highly uncertain off is the engine portion, since I just do not know what frameworks are in place that you would want to build upon and what their pre-existing featureset is (regarding physics and replication).

So, as a crude estimate, I'd say you would need at least 6.5 FTE to make it in a single month, of experienced developers and artists that have a matching profile for the task at hand.


Obviously, as plenty of people have pointed out in this thread and others, the current team doesn't get anywhere near this. Fairly sure they make few hours, not sure how experienced they are, but solely judging off the nature of the project I would assume most are students/hobbyists and I'm not even sure if even then their skillsets 100% align with the tasks they work on.
Poor management and workflow also greatly helps with causing delays, which gets a lot harder to create properly when you have an unstable workforce (not just people leaving/joining, but just in amount of hours in general). No view of what the current state on that is, but I wouldn't blame Xeno if management wasn't perfect. Doesn't mean it should be bad either, of course //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/wink


Those were my two cents. Do with it what you want.

#2 Re: Game Discussion » EEU Engineer - Job Advert » 2020-10-24 00:40:00

>Salary begins at $0k per annum. Non-negotiable.
But what if we can go.
Even lower?

In reality, think it could be a fun thing to work on, although it heavily depends on management, expectations and workflow.

#3 Re: Game Business » Even More Staff Changes & State of Play! » 2020-08-19 22:59:23

Minisaurus wrote:

Searched the video to know how it ended,
If EE was the train then it didn´t ended well for EE lol
I hope the ending is not accurate and the train completes the circuit and keeps running, Choo! Choo!

I mean, it's a graceful recovery without any shards or broken items...

#4 Re: Game Discussion » so THAT's EEU? » 2020-06-16 23:11:45

Tomahawk wrote:

The lobby should have its own little world (next to the room list) which you join automagically whenever you're not in a real room. Maybe forcing players to hang out will keep them logged on longer. ^^

I actually quite like that idea. To kind of continue following that train of thought, a ping setting might help here (so you can lurk and be notified upon somebody joining your world or perhaps even the "lobby"). Pings could either be based on joining, @messages, somebody sending a message at all or a combination of these.
Obviously the decision of what exactly you'd want to do will be up to the devs, although I'd personally suggest a combobox/spinner-esque control... Hides many different settings (3 checkboxes) into a single control points, helps prevent clutter (nobody likes a 2-page settings list).

#5 Re: Game Discussion » The future of Everybody Edits Offline, and how we can help it. » 2020-04-20 23:06:56

N1KF wrote:

Being usable in a web browser doesn't mean it's online. Your web browser probably supports the ability to load offline HTML pages and other files. And if we're talking more practically, website pages are usable in the browser even if connection to the internet is lost, which can include the games on them. EE always needs online access to play, but EEO wouldn't, making it an offline game. It might not technically be offline in the way people think, but if that's a problem then just rename the game

OP says it'll be less convenient if we can't play it in the browser, but what exactly is the difference between having to double-click a .html file to run the game vs a .exe file?
At most you could use the auto-complete function of your browser to type in "file:" and get the EE html file, but you can just as well setup something similar for your desktop (make a shortcut in an easy to reach place, or make sure it's indexed so you can just press the windows key follow by "everybody edits", which I'd say is much more convenient).

#6 Re: Game Business » I'm just not enjoying this anymore » 2020-04-17 20:31:41

Xenonetix wrote:

<snip>

~ Xenonetix ~

Mostly referring to the chat screenshots here:
I do enjoy how this does not at all reflect the stuff I often see on the forums, because let's be honest, it's pretty negative most of the time.

While I can agree that the way you respond in the conversation with Luke, might not be a method a lot of people find easy to communicate with, the essentials seem fine.


P.S. I'm just dropping my two cents, obviously I'm far from the most-informed community member, since I do believe I'm missing out on some when I skip those huge drama threads.

#7 Re: Game Business » I'm just not enjoying this anymore » 2020-04-17 20:05:21

Falk wrote:

Teens go to school, young people go to university, older people go to work.
There's no escape no matter what age you are. There's always something in real life that will undoubtly take priority over any hobby.

To be honest, university was by far the busiest time of my life. University aims for 40-hour "work weeks" (at least mine did, we always laughed when that question came by during semester reviews...), but even if you're try-harding just a little bit, you're easily at 50 (essentially giving you a 7-day work week).
High school I personally didn't care too much about, so I spent as little time as possible, but the knowledge is probably far too little to actually hire somebody (let alone the legal issues you'd have to double-check).
Now that I have a full-time job, I just work 8 hours a week, 5 days a week, and no more. When I'm at home, I'm at home and I can do whatever I want (aside from cooking and such). So I do, to an extend, agree that a university student might not be your best hire. Not if you're expecting you need to pressure them (since believe it or not, they're already under a ton of pressure).

Btw, for the record, I'm 22 now.


Edit:
Funny thing we have in my job (going to use some terms I'm not going to bother to explain). Obviously it talks about a multi-disciplinary team which you can't realise in a project such as EEU:
As developers (even as a lead developer), you don't get informed about deadlines, budgets or all those shenanigans, because you shouldn't. If we'd get behind schedule, the product owner can really only do 3 things:
• Talk to the client about postponing the deadline (yeah, not going to happen).
• Tell the team's organiser they're behind schedule (still no specifics on exact deadline given), who can then only either given gentle nudges, or re-arrange assignments to try and speed things up (e.g. an intern might lose ownership of an issue because they're excruciatingly slow).
• Drop user stories for this deadline and update your planning for future deadlines accordingly (e.g. shifting user stories one deadline up the chain).

#8 Re: Bots and Programming » [Release] EE Adobe Flash programs » 2020-04-05 23:10:19

Yoshi2018 wrote:

What is EE Executables? Is it a way to access Everybody Edits without using any form of flash?

The executables will still use flash in the background, but you can run it outside of your browser (obviously still required internet connection).

#9 Re: Game Business » ByteArray's weekly development vlogs! » 2020-03-05 23:21:21

mutantdevle wrote:

Fun, I assume. Making things is a whole lot easier when it's a personal project. When it effectively becomes 'work' procrastination is more likely.

Differs from person to person. Never managed to finish a personal project, but having it be work (either paid work or a group project) provided a certain urge to meet demands, aka milestones.

#10 Re: Game Business » ByteArray's weekly development vlogs! » 2020-03-02 19:10:14

PiotrGrochowski wrote:

That only gives me even more reason not to play EEU. How am I supposed to trust a rendering method that I don't even know how it works?

So then most of the playerbase should never play any game because they don't understand how rendering works? And if a person only knows how ray-tracing works it is in no way possible for them to enjoy another game that doesn't have it?
Or is it a case where they should read into how the rendering of every game works? In which case why don't you learn how a modern browser renders SVG?

#11 Re: Game Discussion » Hints and leaks of unannounced content » 2020-02-26 19:24:29

capasha wrote:

I just saw ads on smartphones.. There must be a way to pay to remove ads or else people would quit instantly.

You read a bit too selectively. If you literally read the next few words right after you can see it's for earning jewels, meaning it's an optional thing you can do for currency.

#12 Re: Game Business » EE Universe Closed Beta Outstanding Invites & New Staff! » 2019-12-01 23:18:03

Filip2005 is a fiend wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

and get in contact at [email protected] to provide us with a real email to send your invite to:

Can I use a fake e-mail for EE:U?

You won't be able to use "email" at all. You'll have to log in using a Google or Facebook account. While EE gets the bare minimum of info, if you're a real privacy freak you can always make a dummy account for this.

#13 Re: Game Business » ByteArray's weekly development vlogs! » 2019-11-14 23:50:57

peace wrote:

i woudl liek oto be able to use € i mean it used more then the $ right?

I can completely get behind the euro sign, hence why I think a whitelist (only certain characters are allowed) would be much better.

Bry10022 wrote:

I know, right? I'd also like to be able to use the … symbol…

Is just typing three periods really that much effort..?

#14 Re: Game Business » ByteArray's weekly development vlogs! » 2019-11-13 00:43:46

Trytu wrote:

that's why EEU staff should block the ability to chat, there are always a couple of swears you forget, or they manage to make some new censor evadings.

There are plenty of systems out there that do a very good job at this, however.
Besides, communication is a far too important part of EE, better to make it easy and effective to report people (almost a single button press, resulting in the mods receiving some portion of the chat log to make a proper judgement).

#15 Re: Game Business » ByteArray's weekly development vlogs! » 2019-11-12 19:40:19

Bry10022 wrote:

They could add the bad symbols to the blacklist so those wouldn't get sent to chat?

A blacklist is almost always a bad idea, there are always a couple of signs you forget, or they manage to make some new obscure combination.

#16 Re: Game Discussion » Mistakes in transitioning EE to EEU » 2019-11-04 00:05:39

Processor wrote:

And you have completely missed my point. There is no issue with iterating on things. I never complained about that.

If this was directed towards my post, then I think we "miscommunicated", since my post wasn't directed towards yours (I do agree with what you had posted about the UI).

Processor wrote:

Original EE ran physics independently of the graphics.
Which is the industry standard for multiplayer games (to ensure identical results on different machines).

In all honesty, it's an industry standard to always run physics on a fixed time step (that runs "independent" of the normal tick speed). Happens in both Unity and UE4 (although I'm not sure if that's turned on by default in UE4).
Using this does create other issues, such as managing essentially 2 ticks, making sure physics never locks up graphics (through interpolation if needed), and you might need to create additional tick "phases" (such as pre/post/during physics).

#17 Re: Game Discussion » Mistakes in transitioning EE to EEU » 2019-11-03 14:39:09

Kira wrote:

>This is bad
-Good news! We are planning to change it.
>This part is really bad
-You’re in luck! We are changing that in the future //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/smile
>I think this is badly designed
-Worry not, we are planning to change all of it!
>I’m talking about the game, It’s trash
-Of course but hey! It’s just the start of a great premise

There's a method called Agile (Scrum specifically, since I don't know if all Agile methods follow the following concept).
The point of Scrum is to release products ASAP. It might be that some things don't 100% work as intended (such as the UI for chats), but at least it's there. Once it's released, and only then, can it be reviewed by the client (which in this case would kinda be us).
We can then say: Oh yeah, chat works fine, font is readable, I don't need any additional chat features (such as markdown (bold, italics, etc)), but the UI part of it sucks.

Good, they put it on their backlog of stuff to do (or it's perhaps already there).
Most important thing to note here: They don't know 100% yet what UI items they will create (the whole point of an Agile vs waterfall method). While they have a rough idea (player list, chat, minimap, bottom bar, message popup at top), it might turn out they want to add additional stuff. A random example for this would be a crew window (ignoring the fact that crews as we know them won't be there, but just for the sake of argument).

It's just not worth it to already flesh out the whole design of the crew stuff too, since it'd be something they would have to worry about much later. If they wanted the current UI to be (somewhat) final, they would have to flesh out EVERY UI element they might want to add before V1.0, including what information that feature would contain and what would be displayed how.
If you take that development method (waterfall), you generally work on a project (full-time) for one or two years, before suddenly releasing a (pretty much) completed game, making it much harder to receive and process feedback since you're already in such a late state.


And that was the elusive den3107, striking yet again with another 5 cents.

#18 Re: Game Discussion » Mistakes in transitioning EE to EEU » 2019-11-01 15:47:19

Perhaps an extension to what LukeM said above, not sure if this is true (LukeM could confirm this I guess)

Benjaminsen also had a lot more time he could put into the original EE, whilst I'm fairly certain the devs of EEU had EEU, potentially other personal projects, study, work.
While it might've taken a long time, we don't really know how much FTE was actually put into the development (and they really don't have or had any obligation to share that information).

#19 Re: Game Discussion » Mistakes in transitioning EE to EEU » 2019-11-01 03:27:40

While I do mostly agree with what you posted above, I think this wasn't the only issue (even ignoring the fact that early 2019 was an overestimation).

I think it's also a part where the community overestimated EEU's "release".
They expected everybody to come in in one big wave (instant community transition).
It almost seemed as if everybody expected it to be an actual release, instead of the advertised beta (meaning (nearly) all current EE content would be in there).

If people hadn't made these assumptions (not going to discuss if this was an error in communication in staff, error in our expectations or a mixture), they would've known that EEU would be a beta. Mostly intended for trying out the game and see the development unfold, not to make a full transition per-se.
Keeping that in mind, people would've known there was an even greater "waiting period" before EEU would be truly EEU, whether or not the open beta was released in early 2019.


And that were my 5 cents, than I tend to sprinkle around now and then before going into a week-long hibernation again.

#20 Re: Game Business » HI, I'm Darksaplep » 2019-10-30 01:55:29

peace wrote:

too much exception on grammr rules not fun anymore

As fellow dutchman, I agree with this. Honestly it's more exception on the rules than actual rules.
It's like "Oh yeah, so if it's this type of word, which you can figure out with this 5-step process, then you prefix it with a 'ge-'. ... ... Unless it's one of these 50 words, which all have different ways of writing and pronunciation, have fun at the test tomorrow, no more than 5 mistakes out of 50!"

#21 Re: Bots and Programming » [Release] EEditor 5.1.3 - Offline Editor » 2019-10-24 23:32:06

Quick question: Do you think it's be viable to use parts of EEditor's source when we'd start working on an EEUditor (doesn't have the same ring...), or did it become such spaghetti it's probably best to start from scratch?

#22 Re: Game Discussion » Xenonetix » 2019-10-21 00:14:01

My 5 cents:
Xeno needs a spokesperson. Not somebody who requires admin privileges, but just somebody who can filter his thoughts to create a more civilized discussion, talk and resolution.
I'm fairly certain he can agree has has anger issues (whether big or small), and it would be good for him to at least acknowledge that (I believe he did, during the chats that this topic refers to). Then he can start taking actions to try and mitigate the damage his anger might cause.

It's fine for him to talk to the community like he does currently, but he needs to know when to back off and send in the above-mentioned spokesperson. He can then just only pm that person, which will make sure that, no mater how much he swears or might rant, a calm and structured message comes out which can be understood by both parties.

This is a game mostly aimed for children and that demographic tends to be one of the more annoying ones (no offense). Since it's pretty much inevitable he'll get annoyed again at some point (whether it's towards an adult member or a minor member), I personally think something like this is one of the better solutions... Given he fully agrees with this and they can set up some ground rules that both can agree with (like him backing off when the spokesperson tells him to).


Den3107 out and off to sleep //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool

P.S. I'm sadly not extremely active in the community right now, but far as far as I know, outside of his anger bursts, he's been doing a fine job as an owner. Hence why I'm attempting to find a solution to that, rather than something more extreme such as "he should step down" which gets mentioned now and then (jokingly or not).

#23 Re: Game Discussion » Hints and leaks of unannounced content » 2019-10-20 19:35:21

huk94 wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

Elite Membership - 200 Jewels per month
Platinum Membership - 2000 Jewels per month
Divine Membership - 10000 Jewels per month

Xenonetix wrote:

At their base rate, 40 Jewels = $1, and can be bought in the following packs:
200 Jewels = $5 ($0.025 pJ)
450 Jewels (+12.5%) = $10 ($0.02222 pJ)
1000 Jewels (+25%) = $20 ($0.02 pJ)
2200 Jewels (+37.5%) = $40 ($0.01818 pJ)
4800 Jewels (+50%) = $80 ($0.01667 pJ)

Wtf with those pricings? Omagod, such economy would ruin everything :O
P.S. Of course if players will be able to grind gems for free, someway, than ok, if not, this is bs //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/neutral

Personally find the Elite pricing pretty fair, but the other two tiers really make extremely large jumps in price.
Of course we don't yet know exactly what their perks will be, but right off the bat, they seem a bit excessive.

#24 Re: Game Discussion » the official closed beta sharing topic share your EEU screenshots here » 2019-10-13 23:17:07

peace wrote:

some new mechanic added to minigame building: adding really small edit zones so the players have to decide hwo they need otbeat the minigame by adding blocks

I like the idea, but it would kinda require the zone to limit itself to certain blocks, or a certain amount of blocks.
Probably also local-only edits, since otherwise one person would "solve" the minigame, and everybody else can freely utilize it.

#25 Re: Game Business » EE Universe Closed Beta Information! » 2019-10-12 00:25:18

Charlie59876EE wrote:

well it's becoming the end of 'today' atleast where im from and where you're from probably can't be too far off today either.

I mean it can easy be a 7 hour difference if they're based in a different continent.

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