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jakery

Guest

Obsession with the mini map

I think that players spend way too much time on making sure that the mini map looks good. They'll even make the real world look uglier if it helps the mini map. This is the opposite of what we should be doing.

I'd like to see the community put more emphasis on making the worlds look good, and less worry about what that little 200x200 box looks like.

Thoughts?

treejoe4

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

True

EDJ

Member

Joined: 2015-08-20

Posts: 2,157

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Why does the world look bad if you focus on the minimap?

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Both need to look good. This means that the art should be good and that you should not litter it with black blocks to make challenges. Unfortunately, hardly anyone seems to understand this.

Plus, are you suggesting that a level filled with crappy smileyart appeals as much to you as a beautiful landscape?

A pretty minimap is there as a theme which can be found back in the challenges as well (in good levels) and it shows effort has been put into it.

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No u.

jakery

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Why does the world look bad if you focus on the minimap?

The prettier you try to make your art for the mini map, the uglier it looks on the play screen. Think about all the keys and crowns that litter your world just because they smooth out the edges of your map art. Think about all the large, seemingly random blobs and slopes that the players see just because they make a pretty picture when seen from far away.

An indirect side effect of the map art is arrows. The arrows don't show up on the mini map. However, if you try to make your art a playable part of the world, you usually need lots of arrows to allow the player to make progress. Large fields of arrows are ugly and abrasive, and they stand out like a sore thumb.

I'm desperately trying to stay away from map art, and instead focus on making the actual world look good. I almost never allow anyone to help build my maps anymore because most other players just want to draw art for the mini map.

I'll try to screenshot some examples in 6-12 hours (it's 10 AM EDT and I am at work).

Edit:

Both need to look good. This means that the art should be good and that you should not litter it with black blocks to make challenges. Unfortunately, hardly anyone seems to understand this.

Plus, are you suggesting that a level filled with crappy smileyart appeals as much to you as a beautiful landscape?

A pretty minimap is there as a theme which can be found back in the challenges as well (in good levels) and it shows effort has been put into it.

If you can get both to look good that's great. However, I'm always going to put the play screen first. If it looks beautiful on the play screen, I'm not worried about how it looks on the mini map. If map art looks ugly on the play screen, I don't put it in. If art is taking up map space that could be used to make the world better to play, the art is going to get erased.

The exceptions to this rule are:
-putting art in a part of the map that the players cannot see or access
-art that serves a functional purpose on the map, such as a landmark

I think smiley art is a waste of time, completely worthless, and one of the most notorious examples of map art over play art. Don't get me wrong; If the choice is between smiley art and a landscape, I'll take the landscape every time. However, if a beautiful wooded forest on the mini map looks like giant brown and green blobs with bright red and green keys padding every inch of the playfield, it's not a world that I'm going to enjoy.

Last edited by jakery (Apr 12 2011 8:38:53 am)

ani

Member

Joined: 2015-02-17

Posts: 649

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Yup bro. I find that the factory bricks are just used for another tool on shading in the minimap despite how much detail is in it. To most people.

Last edited by FuzzySocks (Apr 12 2011 8:37:23 am)

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Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,574

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I use them in itteh bitteh rooms sometimes.

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- ShinsukeIto

Jojomanjo

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I know but when noobs look at the minimap they be nobin!

jakery

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I know but when noobs look at the minimap they be nobin!

If you want to impress noobs don't waste your time with pixel art; build stairs!:P

correiajoao

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I know but when noobs look at the minimap they be nobin!

If you want to impress noobs don't waste your time with pixel art; build stairs!:P

I agree!

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Obsession with the mini map

If you can get both to look good that's great. However, I'm always going to put the play screen first. If it looks beautiful on the play screen, I'm not worried about how it looks on the mini map. If map art looks ugly on the play screen, I don't put it in. If art is taking up map space that could be used to make the world better to play, the art is going to get erased.

The exceptions to this rule are:
-putting art in a part of the map that the players cannot see or access
-art that serves a functional purpose on the map, such as a landmark

I think smiley art is a waste of time, completely worthless, and one of the most notorious examples of map art over play art. Don't get me wrong; If the choice is between smiley art and a landscape, I'll take the landscape every time. However, if a beautiful wooded forest on the mini map looks like giant brown and green blobs with bright red and green keys padding every inch of the playfield, it's not a world that I'm going to enjoy.

I suppose we also make levels in a different way. For the most part we draw the art first and integrate the levels in them, using the shapes we have for challenges. This is how original challenges come to existence rather quickly. The only time we do it in reverse is for the extremely hard maps ( see: Are You a God / Rainbow Roadrage ). For the rest, random boxes usually end up being rather boring.

An intricate relationship between the art and the challenges is what defines a good map imo.

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No u.

Jojomanjo

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Invested with noobs. Its a dam noob invasion I swear.

Different55

Forum Admin

Joined: 2015-02-07

Posts: 16,574

Re: Obsession with the mini map

you mean infested? Yes, it is.

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"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

BEE

Member

Joined: 2015-03-14

Posts: 1,679

Re: Obsession with the mini map

EE goes through phases of "what is important"

Rava and I might be blamed for the artistic turn recently though, as our art was, from what I understand, something new to EE, and people tried to emulate.

Honestly, it depends on why you play. I play only for the minimap. I can't do many challenges because of my carpal tunnel so of course I focus on the minimap.

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Krazyman50

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

From the blog:

Sorry for double post, But does the stage have to be playable?

Yes, both art and gameplay are huge factors.

This is why we focus on the minimap.

Last edited by Krazyman50 (Apr 12 2011 5:55:44 pm)

Chimi

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

We [they] aren't talking exclusively about the easter thing.

Krazyman50

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

We [they] aren't talking exclusively about the easter thing.

Well I see that now. But still we do it for a reason: it's called "art" lol. We do this to impress people. And to make shapes for us to put minigames on.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Obsession with the mini map

They'll even make the real world look uglier if it helps the mini map.

Why does it matter? To me, as long as it's fun and has good art it's a great level.

In the long run, does it really matter what blocks you're playing on?

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

supadorf24

Member

Joined: 2015-02-26

Posts: 2,675

Re: Obsession with the mini map

Think about all the large, seemingly random blobs and slopes that the players see just because they make a pretty picture when seen from far away.

Ever heard of Monet? Impressionism? Impressionism is a really cool genre of art. Pixel art is similar in the sense that it looks better from afar. I'm all for both kinds of art: minimap and in-game.

jakery

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

They'll even make the real world look uglier if it helps the mini map.

Why does it matter? To me, as long as it's fun and has good art it's a great level.

In the long run, does it really matter what blocks you're playing on?

Sure, it matters. Otherwise we'd only have one color of block.

Chimi

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

which would be no fun.

Tako

Member

From: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Joined: 2015-08-10

Posts: 6,663

Website

Re: Obsession with the mini map

-.-

You're saying that you'd hate a level if it had amazing minigames but black blocks?

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Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.

Nou

Member

Joined: 2015-02-24

Posts: 2,762

Re: Obsession with the mini map

-.-

You're saying that you'd hate a level if it had amazing minigames but black blocks?

I have yet to see them go hand in hand

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No u.

Echo!

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I agree with jakery

jakery

Guest

Re: Obsession with the mini map

I decided against screenshotting other players' levels because I don't want to single out or antagonize anyone. (Except for Bee, for making her art tutorial. ) Perhaps, if I have lots of free time, I'll build and screenshot my own map art world for the sake of argument.

My original opinion remains: Zealous use of keys and crowns and shaping the play screen to benefit the mini map serves to hurt the world's aesthetics.

I know that the limited selection of tiles makes map art even more appealing for those who want to create something unique. We would all like to see a wider selection of tiles (the suggestion board is filled with new tile requests), and to this end I hope that the developers provide more variety in the future. I do believe that the explosion of map art popularity is because of our small tile set.

Side note:

Forgive me if I am out of line, but if the Easter Contest is partially judged on map art, then the Easter Contest is contributing to the problem.

Last edited by jakery (Apr 13 2011 10:58:25 am)