Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

Gosha · 2023-09-18 10:28:09

been saying it for years (and that is a point even in itself), anyone who thinks ee! will come out is delusional. Even if miracle happens and it does come out, there is no community left to play it.

Many devs have underestimated how much time would it take to recreate ee. EE seems so simple, but it's a disguise. EE is a really big game for one programmer, more or less ok for small dev team.

I would say small team that consists of competent developers working like 4-8 hours a day can create html5 canvas / webgl frontend and their own backend in a matter of 6 to 12 months

Current ee team is not competent, does not work 4-8 hours daily on ee, completely shut off communication with community during times where there is no other way to contact them, pulled the plug on ee itself with no alternative to give (ee would still be alive if you just instructed people to download flash and .swf, like EERewritten and EBE does).

We are passed the point of speculation and doubts. The game is not being developed

Tomahawk wrote:

Congrats, you’re part of the problem.

Im glad to be "part of a problem" if that means calling **** a ****

Grilyon2, Beastmode

Abiqi · 2023-09-18 13:19:51

Didn’t Satanya previously mention that she’d rather create a new community than try to satisfy the current one?

rat · 2023-09-19 00:11:44

tomahawk ur a snowflake

Joeyjoey65

N1KF · 2023-09-19 04:54:20

Gosha wrote:

Current ee team is not competent, does not work 4-8 hours daily on ee

And how would you know that?

Calling people delusional and incompetent without backing it up is not helping your case. It really does make 2b55b5g and Tomahawk more agreeable than they already are.

2b55b5g

Cyral · 2023-09-19 13:29:48

Zumza wrote:

IanJanes wrote:
I would be really happy If she could give up ownership of this game and let someone who actually cares about it work on the game.
Hello,
I would be interested in obtaining the domain name if they are willing.
I promise that me and a couple of my friends (who are employed programmers and computer science graduates) can deliver a game in the following months (certainly this year), that is compatible with EE's former maps.
I am serious. 100% this is accomplishable by our team.
Please contact me to discuss this further.

No offense but isn't this what the last 5 EE "owners" have said?

This image from TaskManager says it all:

rat, Grilyon2, BuzzerBee

Zumza · 2023-09-19 14:15:33

I'm not entirely sure who the last 5 owners of EE were.
My proposal is a young team of computer science graduates with working experience that doesn't consist in merely a couple of internships. At their time I don't think neither Xenonetix, John, NVD, or NOU could offer that.
Certainly each owner has / had their own qualities. I do presume Anna to be much more well connected to the gaming industry than us.
This isn't the only topic calling out the lack of visible progress from the current staff. I've decided I could do something constructive about this issue and be willing to discuss being the alternative.
At this point, I suppose the only way someone can rebut the lack of faith is to deliver.
So I will change the order from TaskManager image: we will begin to build a game compatible with EE maps and we will deliver it; if that is enough to be a first step in building trust.

frostflare · 2023-09-20 14:54:59

N1KF wrote:

For anybody who forgot or is unaware of what lead us to this point, reread the five moderator replies in the Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us. thread (from post #9 to post #38). Even now I was a bit shocked reading back through it. You might not like the solution they took, but I'm guessing it's working the best for them.
frostflare wrote:
after taking the time to read through this thread. to me personally, the op's opinion post? is just that. his opinion. anyone wants to agree or disagree with it? that's honestly their choice. but they really should have foreseen these types of threads of being a thing. and will only continue to be a thing, until the game is finally released. and that's because of their choice to go radio silent with any news regarding game progress and updates with the community.

but you know. instead of staff rolling their eyes and calling the guy toxic. they should have instead just linked them this thread.
https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewt … p?id=47883
but hey, i suppose that would require actually engaging with the community to relay that information. so i guess that is out of the question.
Whether or not somebody's lying isn't up to opinion. You can call it an opinion, but it's an accusation. If you accuse somebody poorly, expect to be called out or ignored.
I think Tomahawk's just on the Forum Staff, not representing the development team (which don't usually overlap). I assumed that announcement was easy to find, but yeah, one of us probably should have linked to it at least.

After taking a few days as I was trying to decide whether or not I should even respond to this. What I feel what I am about to say next needs to be said.

To be honest? I still stand by my previous statement. Because whether or not you feel it's wrong. The op is entitled to their opinion. But I said it once and I will say it again. Staff really should have foreseen these types of threads being a thing. And will probably only continue to be a thing even after the game is release since, Kira turn it into a meme.

But since you say, If you accuse somebody poorly, expect to be called out or ignored. I guess I will just leave it with these words below.

Don't get me wrong. I know first hand what it's liked to be stalked, receive sexual harassment, and death threats. But only I think the situation I went through in compared to theirs was a bit more extreme. As I was told by the people in charge, they weren't going to help me. Grow a thicker skin, avoid engaging with them, learn to ignore them. While they expected me to just shut up and stop talking about it as they tried to frame his insane behavior as my responsibility to do better.

I know some will be surprise I went through all that as they wonder Why I'm not being more sympathetic towards Lunarys's situation as to what they're currently going through. If I'm going to be brutally honest. After what happen with my Sailor Moon thread, where I intended that to be an early birthday present for a certain someone I know. As I was harassed and openly accuse by this community of trying to flame Luanary over this image of all things.

▼Hidden text

Many who couldn't read assumed my intent. Many made baseless accusations without backing their claims that I had made that thread to attack Lunarys. While the same people didn't take into consideration that not everything is about them. My self and the rest of the internet are not part of their tiny ecco chamber! And what is personally offensive to you? May not apply to the rest of the world.

And despite the lies and slander people made about me as they honestly believed that, that thread was some jab against her. As I was even told to chill out more then once as I was trying to defend myself against them. As the people who were involved only revel in their hollow victory as they thought they shut me down. And even after the truth came out in Jan of this year, people double down. Didn't want to believe it. As many still hold on to their opinions that I did all of this to flame her as not a single person even came to be and apologize for what they did. As certain people instead decided to make excuses for their behavior to cover their own horrible actions, as I was expected to do better on my part. So no, if it wasn't already obvious base on what I did with part 3 of my cringe fic thread. I just don't care anymore. I don't have any sympathy left to give in this regards. And you have no one but yourselves to blame.

Supah (Snow), Joeyjoey65, Boba, Snowester

N1KF · 2023-09-21 03:17:43

frostflare wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I know first hand what it's liked to be stalked, receive sexual harassment, and death threats. But only I think the situation I went through in compared to theirs was a bit more extreme. As I was told by the people in charge, they weren't going to help me. Grow a thicker skin, avoid engaging with them, learn to ignore them. While they expected me to just shut up and stop talking about it as they tried to frame his insane behavior as my responsibility to do better.
I know some will be surprise I went through all that as they wonder Why I'm not being more sympathetic towards Lunarys's situation as to what they're currently going through. If I'm going to be brutally honest. After what happen with my Sailor Moon thread, where I intended that to be an early birthday present for a certain someone I know. As I was harassed and openly accuse by this community of trying to flame Luanary over this image of all things.

I don't know much about what happened with the Sailor Moon threads, but it sounds terrible. It's reasonable for somebody to avoid putting themselves in that situation.

Going quiet is an understandable response from a development team that wants to keep its morale, and a genuine care for the work they're doing.

BuzzerBee · 2023-09-21 12:06:32

Abiqi wrote:

Didn’t Satanya previously mention that she’d rather create a new community than try to satisfy the current one?

i hope we get a new community tbh.

silksong community has been waiting patiently

speaking of, what do we think is gonna come out first, EE! or silksong ?

ExFabian · 2023-09-21 12:31:37

BuzzerBee wrote:

Abiqi wrote:
Didn’t Satanya previously mention that she’d rather create a new community than try to satisfy the current one?
i hope we get a new community tbh.
silksong community has been waiting patiently
speaking of, what do we think is gonna come out first, EE! or silksong ?

i'm betting on silksong, EE! (assuming this thread is not true, a man can dream) should be about in the middle of its development, because one of the last things we heard about the game was that the lobby system wasn't fully functional yet, and while silksong has been delayed, a playable from start-to-finish build of the game was probably already made. Unless they shadow drop EE! or something (please don't) silksong has a much higher chance of being released first.

BuzzerBee

Zumza · 2023-09-21 12:45:28

The latest info I know about EE! is from 14.07.2022, when Musearys mentioned that EE! crashes within a minute it begins showing things on screen (https://discordapp.com/channels/7904750 … 3370816632).
Can you please point me to when / where the claim that the game is done and only the lobby system remains has been made?

ExFabian · 2023-09-21 12:58:59

Zumza wrote:

The latest info I know about EE! is from 14.07.2022, when Musearys mentioned that EE! crashes within a minute it begins showing things on screen (https://discordapp.com/channels/7904750 … 3370816632).
Can you please point me to when / where the claim that the game is done and only the lobby system remains has been made?

i didn't say that the lobby system is the only thing remaining to be developed, i said that it is one of the things not made yet, also yeah i completely forgot about the renderer message, but (again assuming the game is being worked on) it should've been fixed until now. there's a high chance ee! is actually playable right now, albeit in an alpha or even prealpha state

Snowester

John · 2023-09-23 16:19:30

Zumza wrote:

My proposal is a young team of computer science graduates with working experience that doesn't consist in merely a couple of internships. At their time I don't think neither Xenonetix, John, NVD, or NOU could offer that.

Your assumptions are incorrect - I've had development jobs that were not just internships prior to me being on the staff team. Regardless, I personally preferred the UnitEE project instead of building something from the ground up mostly because of preservation purposes. (ie a new game client)

Either way, I joined the staff team in an effort to prevent the ship from sinking. Not sure if this is widely known or not, but during the gem hackening Xenonetix was going just going to shut the game off entirely then and there. I talked him off the ledge and start reverting everything (even sacrificed a boat ride during all this) and paid for a game servers to be kept online for quite a bit of time. Because of this, we got another quite a few months of playing the game. I had no intentions helping beyond the death of EE unless it was with a new team.

Onjit, MartenM, Beastmode

Zumza · 2023-09-23 17:48:41

As you quoted me, I am discussing about a somehow experienced team (3 other people + myself to be specific), not just a single person.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post. If my assumption is incorrect, that means you had the possibility to offer a team back then, which begs the question: why didn't you?

LukeM · 2023-09-23 18:44:50

Yeah if the goal was to make a 1:1 HTML5 port of EE then yeah that’d be pretty easy and could be done relatively quickly (and is something many people have got pretty close to doing in the past).

The problem is that EE has become a mess, and if you just made a 1:1 copy of it you’d also copy over a lot of the problems it had. You’re left with basically what you had before, just without the one problem of using Flash.

What the larger projects that have yet to succeed have been is attempts to create something more easily maintainable, less buggy, more performant, etc. If you wanted to create a viable EE alternative this is what you should aim for.

John, mutantdevle, MartenM, Gosha

Zumza · 2023-09-23 22:25:46

I am not sure what you mean by a 1:1 HTML5 port of EE.
If by making a 1:1 HTML5 port you mean making a shop that works the same, reimplementing the same crew system, preserving the protocol compatibility, etc. I have no intention in doing that.
We don't plan to translate AS3 code to JS, but to write new code that behaves the same to a user's perspective.
As I said, my idea is to start with a game that is compatible with EE maps, and build on top of that.

What are EE's problems that you're referring to?

Perhaps some of the design choices regarding world building?
For me, what makes a block morphable and what makes it worthy of being a standalone block seems completely arbitrary (for example the spring 2016 flowers are morphable, valentine 2015 hearts are not).
Maybe I'm missing something or maybe there is no consistency. Why have an individual reason about this when we have an entire community of dedicated world builders (many of which are so dedicated they spend months working on a single world!) which can be asked how would they like this to be organized?

EE has 6 different keys, and for each a door & a gate. That' was probably not a good decision. But it was taken.
We can still evolve this system without breaking backwards compatibility. We can assign them ids just like switches, and even allow builders customize their time duration.

Is there any problem in EE that cannot be fixed?

Also, I believe EE 16x16 resolution is anachronistic for today's screen sizes. Designing things so we could support other block sizes is an obvious requirement.

I don't see how a game which is compatible with EE maps is a game which cannot be extended or revised upon, if that's something any of you is implying.

Gosha · 2023-09-24 07:30:27

hardest part of remaking ee is finding time and motivation to do unpaid labor

LukeM · 2023-09-24 09:53:41

▼Zumza wrote:

I mostly meant from an internal programming point of view, though those sorts of inconsistencies contribute to that. Since originally there wasn’t really any planning for what EE would become in the long term (originally it was basically just a demo of what PlayerIO could do, don’t think it was ever planned to become a long running thing) so many things have had to be messily bolted on, barely working. E.g. ice, half blocks, global switches, curse/zombie, boosts, etc. There are also many long-running bugs even with things like portals which have been there since nearly the beginning that you couldn’t fix without breaking any world with precise portal physics.

On top of that even making simple changes to the game had become a huge pain, adding even a cosmetic block required inserting a 16x16 image to some giant 10k wide png, working out the 16x16 tile you added it to, modifying code in 5-10 different places, making two new releases, and doing a full release countdown in game. One of my goals for EEU was to trim this down to 0 code changes, just adding an image and modifying a data file, possibly not even needing to restart the server or kick players out of worlds.

I still think the correct course of action is to build something new from the ground up, taking things slowly rather than rushing so you have time to plan out these sorts of things to prevent them from happening again. Bringing worlds across I don’t have a strong opinion on but at a minimum breaking a significant number of old worlds is probably required to fix EE’s problems.

Onjit

John · 2023-09-24 14:29:31

Zumza wrote:

If my assumption is incorrect, that means you had the possibility to offer a team back then, which begs the question: why didn't you?

To be honest I didn't have interest nor time. I pretty much wanted the regular EE to not die sooner than it had to.

NoNK · 2023-10-02 15:34:35

feels like this thread is incomplete without kiraposting

Zumza

Core · 2023-10-03 23:29:07

do not invoke that man's name here. since k*ra isn't here to provide **** opinions nobody asked for, i suppose i'll have to do it myself.

bluntly, most of the people here would probably be happier with an ee 1:1 relaunch than whatever ee! is trying to be. that's not to say ee! would be lesser in quality, it's just what i believe most people here would prefer.

that being said, ebe exists and is playable, unless you're in linux. there are a few issues with world saving and questionable moderation, but i'd argue it's the best we've got at the moment since it has custom campaigns, mix and match smiley creation, is arguably the busiest i've ever seen an ee remake be, and could potentially even see updates that could bring content from mods such as project m or operation k8 being ported over to online. easily trumps eer since 90% of stuff is free. (magic blocks are locked which is stupid i don't want to have to manually farm them all again, music has to be purchased for whatever reason, diamonds are locked behind a paywall that can't be paid for, npcs and worlds must be repurchased)

tl;dr: why are you complaining about ee!, the thing most of you are used to and would probably prefer is live and almost as functional as the original, i highly doubt any of the people here would even be happy with ee! being released, given all the mention of things like ee! staff wanting to build a new community rather than sating the old one. let sleeping dogs die or whatever the expression is.

Zumza, drstereos, Gosha

soniiiety · 2023-10-28 09:46:56

Zumza wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:
Ok well if you’re talking about a direct port of EE with no fancy extras then idk why you proposed it in this thread, which was about Satanya passing development of EE! to someone else. I wrote all that stuff for no reason
As I said, we could build from there. I personally, felt very happy to enter the game and see something new every now and then. I do suppose, not everyone sees eye to eye with that.
I believe that would be a good initial step to give something to the community. That's better than silence, right?

i agree with you zumza, especially at how many times ive been excluded from development and how no one would listen to my ideas, i cant even get in contact on discord

N1KF · 2023-10-28 17:35:20

soniiiety wrote:

i agree with you zumza, especially at how many times ive been excluded from development and how no one would listen to my ideas, i cant even get in contact on discord

It's difficult for all of us. The Staff have mostly gone silent in response to overwhelming harassment from a few people, until they are ready to show a trailer.

mutantdevle and possibly Minimania still check the forums, so if you want you could post your ideas here. On a message board more people lurk than post, so it's very possible people will listen, but not respond.

Norwee · 2023-11-16 13:24:20

I suppose it's an point of contention for many people since most players here just want their nostalgia to come back, hence they want an EE that is exactly like the EE we had.
While others see it more as an opportunity to create an EE that will remove the bugs of the old game and add better features. Aka to make it more as an "vision" of what EE could be if it had been better from the start rather than just remaking it as it was.

Personally i'm an nostalgia kid so i'm leaning more on the exact EE remake, but that's not to say i wouldn't love to play an remake as well assuming it get's developed and looks like it's of decent quality and brings to the table what i liked from old EE.

Norwee · 2023-11-16 13:27:42

Like i'm so nostalgia that i'd even argue for adding features like glitchy 1x1-tile hoverwalking and 1x1 hookjumps for christs sake.

AND WHO EVEN WANTS THAT?

N1KF

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2023-09-18 10:28:09

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#27 2023-09-18 13:19:51

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#28 2023-09-19 00:11:44

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#29 2023-09-19 04:54:20

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#30 2023-09-19 13:29:48, last edited by Cyral (2023-09-19 13:54:29)

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#31 2023-09-19 14:15:33

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#32 2023-09-20 14:54:59

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#33 2023-09-21 03:17:43

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#34 2023-09-21 12:06:32

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#35 2023-09-21 12:31:37

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#36 2023-09-21 12:45:28

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#37 2023-09-21 12:58:59

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#38 2023-09-23 16:19:30

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#39 2023-09-23 17:48:41

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#40 2023-09-23 18:44:50

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#41 2023-09-23 22:25:46

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#42 2023-09-24 07:30:27

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#43 2023-09-24 09:53:41, last edited by LukeM (2023-09-24 10:00:48)

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#44 2023-09-24 14:29:31

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#45 2023-10-02 15:34:35

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#46 2023-10-03 23:29:07

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#47 2023-10-28 09:46:56

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#48 2023-10-28 17:35:20

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#49 2023-11-16 13:24:20

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

#50 2023-11-16 13:27:42

Re: Everybody edits is not being developed by anybody

Board footer