The Sun rises again

N1KF · 2022-07-19 03:13:45

Minimania wrote:

Zumza wrote:
What other possible explanation could there be that at the high time when progress was made, a war starts, and after that we learn that half of the development team happened to be in Ukraine?
If the actual explanation for this war happening is a curse being handed down from Xenonetix to Satanya coming to fruition after two and a half years of Everybody Edits going offline, I will eat my shorts, and then go and buy a lottery ticket.

world politics are just a sham to keep EE from thriving

Satanya, NoNK, ShadowsEdge, mutantdevle, Zumza, Snowester, some woman

NoNK · 2022-07-19 07:40:06

Satanya wrote:

EEU's design doc, if I remember right, was laser focused on monetisation and very little about actual gameplay and features.

Lmoa @ eeu. In hindsight with how sketchy unity is getting lately i'm glad unitEE never caught on.

Era · 2022-07-19 09:04:55

I am a bit confused on the acusations of toxicity. After the ammount of disapointment the EE community has had I expect a certain ammount of reservation.
But this simply isnt beeing toxic or not respectfull.

For my part I had lost faith in EE quite a lobg time ago, with EEU beeing something that, even when released, I could not play because It usef google or facebook of whatever accounts as a gatekeeper.

For my part I started developing my own game about 2 years back (I feel like it was longer but that is what git sais) because of this.

For EE! itself I just don't know, there is simply nothing to go on as a user, so I'm not holding my breath. Regardless I do wish the team all the best. Who knows, maybe I will really be blown away.

edit: but then again, I can play my own game right now and multiplayer is mostly working... maybe I eill have lost interest in the time EE! is released.

I also wanted to add that adding a punctuation mark to a game name is not that nice, nobody will assume it is part of the name when reading it.

Norwee · 2022-07-19 09:39:14

Minimania wrote:

Zumza wrote:
What other possible explanation could there be that at the high time when progress was made, a war starts, and after that we learn that half of the development team happened to be in Ukraine?
If the actual explanation for this war happening is a curse being handed down from Xenonetix to Satanya coming to fruition after two and a half years of Everybody Edits going offline, I will eat my shorts, and then go and buy a lottery ticket.

It's Tutankhamun's curse obviously. Can't believe you sheeple don't see it.

Zumza

Zumza · 2022-07-19 10:44:21

Satanya wrote:

At the end of the day, if you are toxic or a jerk, that doesn't help develop the game. It doesn't achieve anything. Worst thing is, I'll just stay silent about content even more. Because, really, if you're only here to be toxic and you don't want to be patient, we don't want you around.
And those of you that don't want to be patient or prefer to be toxic-- we don't want you around. Your negativity contributes nothing for our morale or development.

It seems that you're alluding to me. A staff member insinuating that I am toxic or a jerk, is an absolute first.

Please don't put at heart my lack of faith. What I did was to describe the clouds I see at the horizon of where the Sun is supposed to rise. I don't suppose that makes me or anyone else toxic.

There's a terrible bad movie but which has similarities with the current situation: Don't look up.

mutantdevle · 2022-07-19 11:33:51

Era wrote:

I am a bit confused on the acusations of toxicity. After the ammount of disapointment the EE community has had I expect a certain ammount of reservation.
But this simply isnt beeing toxic or not respectfull.

Reservation is fully expected. We are actively aware of the reputation that was gained for EE development and we have worked very hard to both show we are not like that and also actually not make the same mistakes. As others have pointed out, our lack of announcements of plans and not showing things off just to build false hype is part of that process.

But the way that people express themselves is what treads the line between toxic and respectful. The way that Norwee has expressed their reservations in this thread is 100% respectful. On the other hand, by Zumza's own admission they've not actually asked any serious questions. So if they are not trying to genuinely understand the situation, it makes me wonder what their motivation is. Because right now it feels to me like it's just to throw sass, spread negativity, and make accusations based on assumptions. I don't think that Zumza has been actively toxic yet, but I'd not describe their conduct as respectful. That's why I have felt the need to address their comments because behaving disrespectfully can easily lead to toxicity.

In a similar way, there has been a contrast in the way that people have given feedback on some of the graphics we shared last year. Sometimes people would express a dislike for something and suggest improvements and we have made some changes to the things we've shown off based on those comments. But on the other hand, there were some users who were negative about absolutely everything we'd show. Without fail, every time, they would have something negative to say. I've even seen them completely ridiculing some of the stuff we'd shown in other EE discord servers. They'd never have something productive to say, just that what we had made was bad and sometimes those comments would even cross the line to make comments about the artist who had made them. The latter approach was completely toxic. Those sorts of players are largely no longer active in the community, either because they got bored and moved on, gotten banned for something they did later, or because they've stopped being toxic.

Era wrote:

I also wanted to add that adding a punctuation mark to a game name is not that nice, nobody will assume it is part of the name when reading it.

The exclamation mark right now is simply an easy way of signalling which version of the game people are talking about. When EE! becomes the dominant form of EE, the exclamation mark will likely no longer be necessary. The exclamation mark has actually always featured in EE's globe logo.

Our efforts to reduce toxicity in the community is exactly why Kiraninja's topic is so nice to see. As they have mentioned, Kiraninja had a reputation for being incredibly negative about previous versions of the game. Lots of people had their reservations but Kiraninja was one of the first to express them and they'd express them very vocally. The previous administration definitely generated toxicity - after all, if the person in charge is not respectful to others then why should there be any expectation that the community itself should be respectful? The endless drama either exhausted you to the point of leaving or you'd stick around long enough to join in with the toxicity. So this thread is really nice to see as reassurance that we are successfully repairing the damage done to the community and creating a more positive culture, as well as being able to see that community members can recover from that state of exhaustion/toxicity.

Zumza wrote:

It seems that you're alluding to me. A staff member insinuating that I am toxic or a jerk, is an absolute first.

I assure you that it is not directed at you specifically. There has been a lot of toxicity in the EE! discord over the past 2 years, which is what Satanya is alluding to. I'd like to think we've done a very good job of eliminating that toxicity because the discord server has since become a nicer place due to people either leaving, getting themselves banned, or changing their ways. But the way those toxic people would speak is very similar to the way you have expressed yourself in this thread - automatically assuming the worst and throwing around accusations based on those assumptions. Given the past administration, it is understandable that people will assume the worst. But that does not give them a free pass on being a jerk. If your questions are not genuine, and you have no real desire to understand the situation, then I do worry that you are headed down that path of being toxic.

Satanya, Minimania, ShadowsEdge, Grilyon2

Satanya · 2022-07-19 12:06:12

mutantdevle wrote:

Sometimes people would express a dislike for something and suggest improvements and we have made some changes to the things we've shown off based on those comments. But on the other hand, there were some users who were negative about absolutely everything we'd show. Without fail, every time, they would have something negative to say.

I'd like to piggyback off that and present an example. The whole vector art to pixel art change was something we'd done after seeing feedback. Speaking personally, I had my own reservations about the style and once I put all graphics together, I insisted to the team we change it, even after we'd put in a good amount of money on graphics by that point.

I think there were some people that disliked the bunny graphic, and we changed that a bit.

Of course, not every change or suggestion is accepted-- too many cooks in the kitchen and all that, as the saying goes.

We do listen-- but sometimes the things we hear are just downright nasty and counterproductive. And to what end to people say them? I have no clue. At worst, they make one of us feel like crap for a minute, at best we ignore it.

mutantdevle wrote:

I've even seen them completely ridiculing some of the stuff we'd shown in other EE discord servers. They'd never have something productive to say, just that what we had made was bad and sometimes those comments would even cross the line to make comments about the artist who had made them. The latter approach was completely toxic.

Indeed, it's quite draining mentally to read some of the stuff there, which is often toxic for the sake of just being toxic, and negative for the sake of being negative. But that line-- insulting the artist-- was something I had 0 tolerance over and made sure to get rid of the person who did it. I know the artist well, and some people went way too far with what they said to her, to the point that I am appalled at just how nasty people can get. And again, to what end? Why bully someone who already has a very low self-esteem, or someone that's such an easy target? It seems childish to me.

mutantdevle wrote:

There has been a lot of toxicity in the EE! discord over the past 2 years, which is what Satanya is alluding to.

Mutant got that perfectly right. I was alluding to the people on Discord, who occasionally hop on with nothing kind to say. I have to wonder what they stand to gain from it, when usually that all goes ignored.

And it all goes back to this (I have to preface that "you" is general, to the reader, not specifically Zumza or Era):

If you have no desire or interest in the game, don't be a jerk. Leave, move on with your life, and do something else. If you do stay, we just ask that you be a little respectful and nice. That doesn't mean supporting us blindly-- trust me, we're open to constructive criticism. But, keyword: constructive. We have so much to deal with as it is, and signing on just to see endless negativity for the mistakes the previous administrations have made just isn't nice or motivating, and does nothing for morale.

At the end of the day, previous owners acquired an actual functioning game. We didn't. We have to work from scratch and bring the game to a comparable state as EE was towards the end of its life, and at its peak. That is no easy feat. If we wanted, we could have a version of it done in a month. Will it be good? Hell no. But the more time we spend on it and perfect what we can, the better the experience and the game will be. And that's our main focus. We want to make a game that will blow everyone away. Something to continue EE's legacy but also steer it in a new direction and era. But that takes time. All I ask for is patience and a bit of kindness if you stay.

Minimania, ShadowsEdge, Grilyon2

Zumza · 2022-07-19 13:12:09

Mutant, here's a serious question designed to clarify a statement that was made:

When the administration mentions that 40k USD dollars were put in EE!, do you mean that 40k USD dollars were payed or invested?

And to better clarify what I mean by payed and invested I will describe an example: Let's say Luke is an employee at a startup. Luke's market value is at $15 an hour.
However, as Luke and their "employer" are in a form of partnership, that money is not actually paid.
Luke is remunerated with $0.1 an hour. At the end of the month, Luke's employer, would actually pay $16 (provided that he worked full-time), but from a business accountant point of view, $2.400 were invested.

So to reiterate: these 40000 USD represent the amount of money payed or just the amount of money invested?

Thank you!

mutantdevle

Satanya · 2022-07-19 13:23:35

I can clarify that for you, as I am in charge of the team.

It's the money that's been paid so far. We pay the devs and artist in advance before they begin work, and we agree on what work must be done within what timeframe. Promising money after the fact is just something that doesn't really fly in this business when everyone working does it for a job and not as a hobby. (Basically, why would someone spend a year of dev time, to "maybe" get money in the future, when, with their experience, they can get any other job now and get money as they work?)
So they definitely make hourly rate.

$40k (this is a rough number, the true number is maybe around $35k, at the moment-- but remember, it keeps going up as time goes on) is what has been paid total for programmers (I believe they make up about $25k of that? I'll need to ask Fixel, that may be a way outdated number) and the rest for art, music, and other things (UI design, website). Essentially, they are paid to work, not to communicate with the community.

The number is likely to reach $45k soon, given that I've put together finalised budget estimates for the creative side of the game (the one I am in charge of).

Minimania, Zumza, Grilyon2

2022-07-19 15:46:45

Tomahawk wrote:

Here's an idea for the doomers; if EE! isn't successful, sunk cost fallacy dictates we get a couple years of gameplay out of it anyway.
Most of the current "community" are in their twenties. Likelihood is we'll have moved on before EE! dies, and probably before it peaks.

At this point the entire community is a bunch of twenty-somethings feeling nostalgic for a game they played when they were kids. Curious about plans to bring new players.

Era · 2022-07-20 14:26:58

Satanya: regarding the "vector to pixel art" thing, I seem to have missed this (also because I don't use discord probably)
Is this an art style thing or a technical thing?
I am asking since for poppy (the game I am developing) I doubled down on pixels, removing the block grid entirely as a hard limit and let players draw exactly where they want. I am curious if the new ee version will retain the grid, even if in higher resolution.

Edit: regarding toxicity, I did not really perceive uz^wzumzas conduct in this thread as disrespectfull. I can understand jumping the gun a bit if the norm on the discord is as bad as you say however. Though I have not heard anything good about that platform in generall.

NoNK · 2022-07-22 06:16:07

0176 wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:
Here's an idea for the doomers; if EE! isn't successful, sunk cost fallacy dictates we get a couple years of gameplay out of it anyway.
Most of the current "community" are in their twenties. Likelihood is we'll have moved on before EE! dies, and probably before it peaks.
At this point the entire community is a bunch of twenty-somethings feeling nostalgic for a game they played when they were kids. Curious about plans to bring new players.

only if you hang out in the EEO discord. eeo and forums are for retired everybody edits boomers. ee! discord has a significant underage population which is why it is the way it is.

Grilyon2, Snowester

Kiraninja · 2022-10-09 17:20:51

lol at the people believing this was a real post

Satanya wrote:

I can clarify that for you, as I am in charge of the team.
It's the money that's been paid so far. We pay the devs and artist in advance before they begin work, and we agree on what work must be done within what timeframe. Promising money after the fact is just something that doesn't really fly in this business when everyone working does it for a job and not as a hobby. (Basically, why would someone spend a year of dev time, to "maybe" get money in the future, when, with their experience, they can get any other job now and get money as they work?)
So they definitely make hourly rate.
$40k (this is a rough number, the true number is maybe around $35k, at the moment-- but remember, it keeps going up as time goes on) is what has been paid total for programmers (I believe they make up about $25k of that? I'll need to ask Fixel, that may be a way outdated number) and the rest for art, music, and other things (UI design, website). Essentially, they are paid to work, not to communicate with the community.
The number is likely to reach $45k soon, given that I've put together finalised budget estimates for the creative side of the game (the one I am in charge of).

18 y/o teen hero we all needed! no1 believes u bro and no1 cares either except ur little minions trust brah

Norwee · 2022-10-09 18:17:20

"Jokes on you guys, i'm actually an ****. GOTEM"

Satanya, Kirby, Snowester, Edilights

Onjit · 2022-10-10 00:36:05

Norwee wrote:

"Jokes on you guys, i'm actually an ****. GOTEM"

thing is we already knew this, so it wasnt much of a prank really

(love you kira x)

GreenyMix

Kiraninja · 2022-10-23 12:40:22

Onjit wrote:

Norwee wrote:
"Jokes on you guys, i'm actually an ****. GOTEM"
thing is we already knew this, so it wasnt much of a prank really
(love you kira x)

Core

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2022-07-19 03:13:45

Re: The Sun rises again

#27 2022-07-19 07:40:06

Re: The Sun rises again

#28 2022-07-19 09:04:55, last edited by Era (2022-07-19 09:06:31)

Re: The Sun rises again

#29 2022-07-19 09:39:14

Re: The Sun rises again

#30 2022-07-19 10:44:21

Re: The Sun rises again

#31 2022-07-19 11:33:51

Re: The Sun rises again

#32 2022-07-19 12:06:12

Re: The Sun rises again

#33 2022-07-19 13:12:09

Re: The Sun rises again

#34 2022-07-19 13:23:35

Re: The Sun rises again

#35 2022-07-19 15:46:45

Re: The Sun rises again

#36 2022-07-20 14:26:58, last edited by Era (2022-07-20 14:31:06)

Re: The Sun rises again

#37 2022-07-22 06:16:07

Re: The Sun rises again

#38 2022-10-09 17:20:51

Re: The Sun rises again

#39 2022-10-09 18:17:20

Re: The Sun rises again

#40 2022-10-10 00:36:05

Re: The Sun rises again

#41 2022-10-23 12:40:22

Re: The Sun rises again

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