I'm just not enjoying this anymore

XxAtillaxX · 2020-04-17 21:55:38

SirJosh wrote:

XxAtillaxX wrote:
does anyone remember when Chris Benjaminsen was about to take the game back but then NVD and Emalton decided to hand it to Xeno instead? does anyone know a way to alter timelines?
i talked to him, and he did say that he was going to rebrand Worlds FRVR under the Everybody Edits name
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ … nknown.png

He did talk about wanting to do a 3D game but that wasn't an established part of the deal. I objected against any sort of 3D Everybody Edits and the conversation migrated more towards game mechanics. He said he wanted to have a system like Factorio and I brought up a revenue model based off of in-game asset collaboration in similarity with Roblox (which has millions of players and a ton of money)

So yes, I think he would want to use the name under his new game, but that wasn't a part of the deal.

SirJosh3917, Andymakeer, Minimania, LukeM

Gosha · 2020-04-17 22:45:51

Xenonetix wrote:

Phinarose wrote:
However, how do you think it feels to be verbally attacked by someone constantly to no end?
I know exactly how it feels. You, Luke and Gosha did it to me regularly, so I'm well aware, thank you.

I specifically talk to you without any hatred, swearing, only telling facts, trying to be not personal as i much as I can. You can see that in our chat in #general in eeu discord. Also i tell users to stop hating you since it doesn't help the situation.

Stop trying to make yourself a victim, please.

edit: sniped

2b55b5g, Andymakeer, Minimania, TaskManager, TundrumMax, KyYay

Andymakeer · 2020-04-18 00:26:15

Thanks for everything Luke, we all appreciate your work and your decision.

!lynch megalame

LukeM

peace · 2020-04-18 10:13:10

welp i do hope xeno finds a good candiate for luke oi im gona miss luke

LukeM

LukeM · 2020-04-18 12:33:39

Thought I should probably clarify some things around the server rework:

I'm not sure when exactly I started researching the project, but if I gave an estimate for it being finished by the end of September (not that I recall doing so) that would have been before I had a good idea of what needed to be done, and I would have made it very clear how uncertain an estimate before you really know what needs doing is. Over the summer almost all my time was taken up by my internship, the hacking incidents, and getting the game to the Closed Beta phase (improvements to hosting, authentication systems, world saving, etc), and by the time all that had been finished I was already back at university.

While I was back at university I put a bit of time into researching what changes we would need to make to support everything we would need in the future, but much of my time was spent elsewhere so this understandably wasn't quick. The goal for the project was for it to be the last full rewrite of the server backend, so it needed to be designed with knowledge of a lot of our future plans in mind, and we didn't want to deal with multithreading problems in the future so it required a lot of knowledge of the .NET threading and concurrency system as by default C# doesn't support this, so we would have to implement it ourselves. I was implementing small parts of the project as I went but we didn't want to rush this as it would likely mean another server rework in the future.

Now a lot of the research had been finished, I estimated that if I had worked solidly on the server rework I would have expected implementation to be finished comfortably by the end of the Christmas holiday. I think what Chris is likely referencing when he says about working on portals since September were the few diagrams I sent describing our options for how they could act, but there wasn't a lot of discussion about that so it took up almost none of my time, and I only started implementation at the start of the Christmas holiday. This along with some changes to the block state system and the Secret Santa ended up taking me up to Christmas with little work being done on the server rework. After this I spent a couple days collecting feedback about portals and trying to find any quick changes we could make that would solve some of the problems they obviously had, as this was the small window we had where we could change them without breaking too many worlds, but these features were never released as Chris told us not to make any changes until he had read through everything, and then went mostly offline for a while. After this I did continue to collect feedback when I noticed it as feedback is very important for these sorts of things, but this was mostly done when I wasn't at my computer from my phone or laptop, and when I was at my computer it was just the occasional glance over at discord once every few minutes while I was doing whatever else I was doing, so it didn't take a significant amount of time away from EEU.

After this I properly continued work on the server rework (with a bit more time being taken to work on physics changes with Chris), but at this point there wasn't long left of the holiday, and a large chunk of the time that was left was spent with family and friends as it was Christmas after all, finishing holiday work, revising for pre-term exams, and getting packed to move back, and then taking those pre-term exams, (although term technically does start when Chris mentioned, the holiday effectively ends quite a bit earlier). There was also a bit more work that needed doing than I expected, so it was now obvious that it wouldn't be finished before I went back to university. I believe it was around this time that the threat of being fired if I didn't ignore university happened, it probably wasn't that exact wording as I'm not in the discord to check quotes anymore, but it was something along those lines.

There were also discussions about hiring another staff member to help with the rework, but I explained that this wouldn't really make sense, as I had already done most of the research so either I would need to explain everything to new developer which would take more of my time than actually finishing the project, or they would have to redo all that research, which would be a massive setback, along with the fact that at this stage there just aren't many small projects that need doing for new staff members to get used to how things work, and I didn't believe that recruiting a new staff member and instantly throwing them in at the deep end on something like this would be a good idea. I never overruled any decisions about this, I just explained the problems and Chris seemed to begrudgingly accept that this was probably correct.

So that brings things back to this holiday with maybe 2-3 weeks of work left on the project, but with morale lower than ever due to the things he has been saying to me and others, this has been going even slower. Sure, I could probably have it finished a week or so from now and we could have started work on the shop, but he has promised that things will change in the future before, so I'm not inclined to believe this. If someone is going to say these things to me and then say "but it's fine, just finish X and I'll stop" then honestly I don't want to be part of that.

TaskManager, 2b55b5g, Luka504, Raphe9000, Gabriellfs, mrjawapa, Joeyjoey65, St1ckS4m(EE), XxAtillaxX, Andymakeer, Kkay, Phinarose

peace · 2020-04-18 14:01:59

i wish you th ebets luke i ho you will still continue tto play the game in your free time and or make some bots for EEU in free time

LukeM

bunglybongle · 2020-04-18 14:16:32

>when more info comes out showing xeno is more like yanderedev
>pogchamp

Kikikan

Kira · 2020-04-18 14:52:20

Xenonetix, the community gave you:
- The benefit of the doubt
- Moral support
- Patreon money (In total +7000€~)
- Ideas, suggestions

You gave us:
- False promises, lies
- Very poor community management = Banning users permanently, insulting your own community, publicly lashing out on users, denying facts
- Very poor staff management = Lashing out on your own team, firing them, insulting them, refusing to cooperate/being transparent in order to make things go forward
- After roughly 2 years, the EEU closed beta you have released showcases your poor leadership, management and uselessness

You are:
- Mentally sick, stressed out and absolutely unable to be in an ownership's position, despite the community giving you a chance and a blind eye multiple times.

You refuse to acknowledge all these issues and you also refuse to give up on your ownership despite all of that.

Xenonetix, listen man. No one has any personal hatred towards you. Nobody. Not everyone is suited to be in a management's position and that is completely fine. You don't need to be ashamed, you don't need to blame yourself. We get it. We understand you. No one said it was easy to be a leader, no one. You have proven that you aren't suited to be a leader and again, that's fine man just give it up and move on. You don't need to ruin your mental health for the sake of completing EEU.

Health always comes first and clearly you should get your priorities straight. Let it go.

2b55b5g, Onjit, Gosha, mrjawapa, The Party Animal, Yoshi2018, Zumza, St1ckS4m(EE), Andymakeer, Kkay, Phinarose, Gabriellfs, skullz17, Falk, KyYay, Cyral

peace · 2020-04-18 15:13:01

Kira wrote:

- Very poor staff management = Lashing out on your own team, firing them, insulting them, refusing to cooperate/being transparent in order to make things go forward

nto entirely true according to xeno luke wasnt showing anything from teh sever rework which luke worked all alone on

2b55b5g · 2020-04-18 15:29:14

peace wrote:

Kira wrote:
- Very poor staff management = Lashing out on your own team, firing them, insulting them, refusing to cooperate/being transparent in order to make things go forward
nto entirely true according to xeno luke wasnt showing anything from teh sever rework which luke worked all alone on

kira's point still stand
just stop nitpicking

TundrumMax

peace · 2020-04-18 16:42:41

just a question will cercul sotp workign on EEO and wokr on EEU now that luke is gone? andabot that whats the progress of it? form what i iknow cerculs last pos on the forums awas more then a year ago

Meep805 · 2020-04-18 16:50:42

peace wrote:

just a question will cercul sotp workign on EEO and wokr on EEU now that luke is gone? andabot that whats the progress of it? form what i iknow cerculs last pos on the forums awas more then a year ago

the only way he could work on EEO any less at this point is if he just started holding down backspace

mutantdevle, mrjawapa, 2b55b5g, N1KF, SirJosh3917, TundrumMax, Different55, skullz17, rat, Falk, KyYay

Tomahawk · 2020-04-18 17:06:04

This particular drama is interesting since it seems like we have two people unwilling to paint themselves in anything but the best possible light.

That comment may enrage those who time and time again see a tiny snapshot of context and jump straight onto the black-and-white “Xeno evil and staff member blameless and abused” bandwagon, but I’m not defending Xeno.

Consider this:

> Xeno goes on holiday and is replaced by an owner with calmer judgement, some amount of humility and better interpersonal skills.
> Some conflict between them and a staff member inevitably arises because disagreements happen even at the best of times.
> We hear about it, a forum thread or Discord discussion starts, and then...?

The problem with a community that flings handfuls of **** around as quickly and vindictively as this one, is that it creates the conditions in which only people as thick-skinned and stubborn as Xeno are willing to become or remain owner for any decent length of time. Morale is low? Well yes to some extent (and we don’t know how much) because of Xeno but let’s not ignore the hyenas circling outside, waiting for an out-of-context screenshot or one-sided opinion post to appear so they can start howling in fury at the bitter injustice of it all.

At least a couple of staff have left in the past, citing lack of enjoyment and bad atmosphere. My proposition is that some of this is caused by community members who mean well but don’t really think it through. Perhaps the best course of action really is to keep hating on and calling for Xeno to resign and expecting a better owner to magically appear, but we can’t ignore the effects this has on the rest of the team.

Yoshi2018, Zumza, St1ckS4m(EE), TundrumMax, den3107, Snowester, peace, KyYay

Luka504 · 2020-04-18 18:49:39

Tomahawk wrote:

I’m not defending Xeno.

Lmaooo yeah **** right. Dude, if you're going to defend Xeno, then just do that. Stop trying to show everyone how impartial you are in this because all it does is draw attention to how much you're not.

Say what you want about how toxic and bloodthirsty the community is, but a fundamental truth is that Xeno is the one constantly giving us reasons to despise him. If you don't want to get harshly criticized from every angle, here's a revolutionary idea -- don't do scummy **** on a regular basis. The toxic community is the symptom, not the disease. People have every right to be upset and cause noise when Xeno's sinking the EEU ship with his constant angry outbursts and rash decision making.

The amount of sugarcoating you do is ridiculous, Toma. "A couple of staff have left in the past"? Yeah, but when your team consists of like 10 people, "a couple" is a lot.

"Yes, morale is low but to some extent"? Really? By the sound of it, morale is always a downer, constantly crashing into the dirt whenever Xeno does something idiotic, which is pretty damn often. I have no reason to doubt that Luke's recollection of events is the more accurate of the two, especially when his account is corroborated by Phina, Gosha, and even Joshua.

2b55b5g, AllenCaspe9510, Onjit, Falk, KyYay

XxAtillaxX · 2020-04-18 19:40:50

Tomahawk wrote:

This particular drama is interesting since it seems like we have two people unwilling to paint themselves in anything but the best possible light.

So, you're insinuating that LukeM is somehow also in the wrong and deserving of the treatment given to him by Xenonetix, despite LukeM refraining from ad-hominem?

I've heard that after LukeM was wrongly fired (unless you'd like to dispute this also) along with Phinarose and Gosha, he was re-hired for two reasons:
The first being damage control, the second to appeal to Joshua, who wanted him back.

We are well aware that Xenonetix didn't like LukeM after he was rehired, apparently because Xenonetix didn't trust him, in his own words.

Xenonetix wrote:

My trust issues lay with Luke and Luke alone on staff. That trust was never repaired since the moment we rehired him.

So are you suggesting that it's unreasonable for an employee to lack enthusiasm to attend meetings that supposedly his owner didn't even want him to attend due to a lack of trust? Do you think that it's unreasonable for an employee to lack enthusiasm to do their job when their boss segregates them from the rest of their colleagues and berates them behind closed doors (and now in a public forum)?

I suppose that perhaps you aren't aware of why LukeM was fired in the first place. He stood up for Gosha, there's your answer. He stood up for the guy that Xenonetix had an agenda to get rid of because Gosha gave him too much criticism and, any criticism, constructive or not, is not welcome to a man who plans most implementation details himself and releases those details in one lump sum for his employees to work on. I use the term employees very loosely considering they're not legally employees.

Tomahawk wrote:

At least a couple of staff have left in the past, citing lack of enjoyment and bad atmosphere. My proposition is that some of this is caused by community members who mean well but don’t really think it through.

Perhaps, however every staff member now coincidentally cites their boss as a primary reason for their departure. My proposition is that, maybe, just perhaps, the owner indulges in community drama and releases it upon his staff who otherwise would be focused on developing the game.

2b55b5g, Luka504, TaskManager, Gosha, Phinarose, Andymakeer, Joeyjoey65, Onjit, Falk, KyYay

Zumza · 2020-04-18 19:41:09

Luka504 wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:
I’m not defending Xeno.
Lmaooo yeah **** right. Dude, if you're going to defend Xeno, then just do that.

I don't see where Tomahawk defends Xenonetix in that post.

I believe he is just raising awareness on the bigger picture of things.

If a post is not an attack to Xenonetix it doesn't mean that the person behind the post agrees with the current state of things.

I don't believe anyone is happy with how things go. We all wish for a better management. But throwing rocks left and right it's been proved already not to help.

I believe that's what Tomahawk also wants to say, we must also change our ways if we want a better owner.

The community is interconnected, and perhaps the owner is a reflection of the community about just as much as the community is the reflection of its owner.

2b55b5g, TundrumMax

XxAtillaxX · 2020-04-18 19:51:31

Zumza wrote:

I believe that's what Tomahawk also wants to say, we must also change our ways if we want a better owner.

I disagree with the premise of blaming the community for the staff departures when they themselves cite Xenonetix as the primary reason for leaving.
Chris Benjaminsen never had any of his staff quit because of a toxic community, which it was back then as well. I suppose perhaps he didn't flood his entire staff team with it.

The staff will tell you (and have told us) how unproductive it was to argue with Xenonetix. As the adage goes, never argue with a moron because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

2b55b5g, The Party Animal, Luka504, TaskManager, Gosha, Zumza, Kkay, Phinarose, Gabriellfs, AllenCaspe9510, Andymakeer, Joeyjoey65, Onjit, Kira, Falk, KyYay, St1ckS4m(EE)

Luka504 · 2020-04-18 20:19:26

Zumza, Xeno will not listen to reason. It really doesn't matter how obviously you spell it out for him, he will not acknowledge that his destructive behavior is ultimately a detriment to the game and that stepping down would alleviate so much of the tension looming in the air.

I'm not just going to ignore Xeno's obvious problems for the sake of 'being a better person.' **** that.

XxAtillaxX, 2b55b5g, mrjawapa, Falk, KyYay

LukeM · 2020-04-18 20:43:37

Just to be super clear about this, I'm not saying that I don't have any problems myself, I'm just trying to explain things from my point of view and the reasoning behind leaving the staff team so people can make up their own decisions.

Yes I'm generally pretty slow at getting things done, that's partly because I have relatively little time to work on EEU, that’s partly due to low morale, but that's also partly just the way I am. With this sort of thing I guess I just prioritise the quality of what is produced over how quickly it is done, that’s just what I find enjoyable.

What I wanted was a fun hobby where I can spend time doing things I haven't done before, EEU seemed like an excellent opportunity to do that as it was meant to be the time things were done right instead of just fast, and a lot of the things that needed doing were things I found pretty interesting and hadn't done before, so it seemed like my interests aligned with the game's goals.

I can definitely see reasoning behind Chris's viewpoint, even if I don’t agree with it. It seems to me like he believes that I'm being unreasonably slow, so he wants to make me speed up. He seems to feel like he doesn’t have any other leverage, so tries to do this by limiting what I’m physically able to do, and removing the enjoyment that I get from working on things slowly, so that what he wants me to do gets done faster, but this does just end up making me enjoy working on the game less and I end up spending less time on it and things end up getting done even slower than before.

I do legitimately believe that throughout all this Chris still wants the best for the game whether or not he does it, to be honest there’s no other logical reason for him to still be here. Although we’re very thankful for the money from the Patreon, it is enough to pay for the servers and little more, if he wanted money he’d be better off getting a weekend job at McDonalds or something, and, well, the ‘fame’ is obviously not going too well. I was just no longer enjoying working under him so I’ve stopped. This is a mix of me trying to give my own perspective so people can see both sides of the things he has been saying about me, and I guess just wanting to make my reasoning clear.

So yeah…
Does he have good intentions? I believe so.
Does he have good ideas for the direction of the game? I also believe so.
Do I like working with him? No.
Am I part of the problem there? Probably.
Am I the one in the wrong? I don’t believe so, but that’s not for me to judge.
Is he a good owner overall? Maybe not, but again, I’m a bit biased here so I can’t say for sure.

2b55b5g, Different55, Yoshi2018, Andymakeer, KyYay, St1ckS4m(EE), Atikyne

Different55 · 2020-04-18 21:55:43

Xenonetix wrote:

This is untrue. I have been encouraging and supportive of Luke's university and learning just as I have been encouraging and supportive of Josh's other development projects for Light Wolf Studios. We all have lives to lead, and I'm fully aware that we have to work around them to get things done. At no point did I say he had to "ignore university". It would be crazy for anyone to suggest his university learning should not have come first.

Just so you're aware of your own behavior, you'd be better off with the search term "important uni" to find the message he's talking about. It seems like you're aware that's a big and ridiculous ask so I'm not sure what else to say here.

Kira, 2b55b5g, LukeM, Andymakeer, mrjawapa, Phinarose, Luka504, Kkay, Joeyjoey65, XxAtillaxX, rat, Falk, KyYay, St1ckS4m(EE)

mrjawapa · 2020-04-18 23:22:54

Kkay · 2020-04-18 23:32:08

Proud of you luke

Onjit · 2020-04-19 04:15:56

So who's actually left on the dev team now? Just wondering

N1KF · 2020-04-19 04:34:31

Onjit wrote:

So who's actually left on the dev team now? Just wondering

Let's see...

According to the forum user category, ByteArray and cercul1 are the only ones left. (Maybe Xeno does some development, but I don't know.) Cercul1 is missing in action which just leaves ByteArray to work on EEU, and no staff members left to program EEO.

Luka504, TundrumMax

peace · 2020-04-19 10:33:08

need to agree wih toma here w eonly se a few picturees of the staf discord for exmaple yet jump in so fast

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2020-04-17 21:55:38, last edited by XxAtillaxX (2020-04-17 21:57:41)

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#27 2020-04-17 22:45:51, last edited by Gosha (2020-04-18 08:47:11)

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#28 2020-04-18 00:26:15

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

!lynch megalame

#29 2020-04-18 10:13:10

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#30 2020-04-18 12:33:39

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#31 2020-04-18 14:01:59

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

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Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

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#34 2020-04-18 15:13:01

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#35 2020-04-18 15:29:14

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#36 2020-04-18 16:42:41

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#37 2020-04-18 16:50:42, last edited by Meep805 (2020-04-18 20:23:35)

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#38 2020-04-18 17:06:04

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#39 2020-04-18 18:49:39

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#40 2020-04-18 19:40:50, last edited by XxAtillaxX (2020-04-18 19:45:06)

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#41 2020-04-18 19:41:09

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#42 2020-04-18 19:51:31

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#43 2020-04-18 20:19:26

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#44 2020-04-18 20:43:37

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#45 2020-04-18 21:55:43

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#46 2020-04-18 23:22:54, last edited by mrjawapa (2020-04-18 23:23:09)

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#47 2020-04-18 23:32:08

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#48 2020-04-19 04:15:56

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#49 2020-04-19 04:34:31

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

#50 2020-04-19 10:33:08

Re: I'm just not enjoying this anymore

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