Mafia 31 [Mafia Win]

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 21:55:01

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I chose you because i know from past experience that you could be a potential major threat to the town as a scum player. One could always go the same old route of policy voting Peace or Anatoly, but if they are scum i don't think they would be a danger to the towncore, you however could be. That's why my initial plan was to quickly sort you into a townread by putting you under pressure with the RVS vote and getting the game started with some discussion other than "Hey, come! Let's lynch the annoying!" like Anatoly would put it.

That's not what I'm talking about. I admit the fact that I'm a player that could be a threat. But so could Mutant, so could Task, so could Jawapa. All people who were able to easily pass the radar of the townspeople before. Yet you specifically chose me for a reason. Why you chose me specifically over any of those three is still a mystery. But that's what that was asking about, not why you weren't pushing for a Policy lynch. I could care less about policy lynches because they provide absolutely nothing.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Behaving differently from the last game isn't necessarily a surefire scumtell, and if it is. Then that makes the player in question a bad player since they can be easily read in seconds based on their meta playing style.

You do realize how this contradicts your claims against me right? Your initial claims, and claims that Mutant have made as well is that I'm playing this game differently than last game, and are therefore trying to make people think that I'm playing differently to think I'm town.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

What exactly am i doing wrong here, when you yourself admit that a portion of your posts seem scummy, yet that somehow makes me suspicious because i pick up on it and pressure you based on it?

The point isn't that you're taking things I say that are scummy and using it against me. I've stated before I think my posts are scummy, and I didn't bash Luka in for it because their posts are solely on that fact. The reason my suspicions are on you is solely because you refused to see alternatives.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I hate to repeat this to you again, but you've said yourself that your posts "have a slightly scummy attribute to them." I'm not sure if you're trying to dig your own grave or what. But almost nothing about your behavior in this entire game has seemed logical.

The point is that yes, I made a mistake and now I'm in a situation of my own demise. I admit that. But what I'm saying is that there's alternatives. Just like with Bimps, who everyone believed to be Mafia, because of his scum traits, turned out to be Town. There was no possible way to find out that they were Town, because he himself acted scummy, and as Mafia, I pushed that trait. And knowing you, someone who has already claimed to being better at Mafia than town, and pushing for a lynch against me, disregarding alternatives, it seems like you're trying to pin me as scum, while leaving out the idea of me being Town. So no, I don't have proof of me being town. I've tried helping, and I've tried to have a stance of being town, but each time I do, the fact that I said scummy things, unintentionally mind you, brought me into a position where I can no longer be read as town because of the things I've said. And I'm not blaming that part on you, that part is my own fault. The part that relates directly to you is pushing the idea of me being scum while disregarding alternatives.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

This might be the only point you've made that makes me feel better about your slot. I don't think scum under pressure would avoid an opportunity to paint the accuser as maybe being town rather than claiming the attack on them is 100% scum motivated. I still wouldn't leave it behind me for you to be capable of playing this way as scum. But from the moment i'm writing this, i'll take a moment to reconsider your slot and take a look at the bigger picture.

While I appreciate you starting to look for a possible alternative, I'm not going to disregard my suspicions. I still have suspicions against you that are the only grounds of suspicion that I hold. And the fact that you only start looking for an alternative after me mentioning the fact that you don't look for an alternative adds to that.

I don't want to start a lynch against you. I do feel your posts make you suspicious, but nothing that defines you wholly as scum, which is why I'm not placing it. In any case, it's better to wait for a PR to investigate you to make sure.

Norwee · 2019-09-21 22:03:30

I’ll analyze reads on players and respond to Shadow tommorow. Night.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:26:38

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, as I've said before, I didn't think of any other way to go about it.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I explained before that the reason I specifically reacted that way is because there was no viable way I could have defended myself.

You've made numerous other comments like this that imply you believe you couldn't have done anything differently. So have you changed your mind on that?

You honestly confuse me. In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story. I have different reasons to suspect you than that of Luka and Norwegian and in trying to defend yourself against each of our's points you keep contradicting yourself.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:31:37

Kira wrote:

Friendly reminder that there are 15 players and not 1

Yeah, but we can't investigate all 15 players at once. So personally I've decided to just ignore 5 people for now and 15 take away 5 is 1.

Do you know what would be helpful though? If people like you would be kind enough to weigh in on the current situation. I'm not necessarily telling people they should be voting for Shadow, but it would be nice to know how others view this situation as right now the town as a whole is eerily silent with the exception of those involved in this drama.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 22:39:09

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, as I've said before, I didn't think of any other way to go about it.
ShadowsEdge wrote:
I explained before that the reason I specifically reacted that way is because there was no viable way I could have defended myself.
You've made numerous other comments like this that imply you believe you couldn't have done anything differently. So have you changed your mind on that?
You honestly confuse me. In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story. I have different reasons to suspect you than that of Luka and Norwegian and in trying to defend yourself against each of our's points you keep contradicting yourself.

Like I said before. At the time, I believed there was nothing I could do. Hindsight is always 20/20. I could have handled it differently, as people have pointed out ways I could have handled it. But the point isn't about how I "could have handled it." The way I handled it was the way I thought was the right way, and I'll stick to that. But the reason I have changed my opinion is because yes, people have provided ways that I could have handled it. I still stick to the story that at the time, I saw no other option, because that's how it appeared to me when I was initially handling it.

You put me on a pedestal. As if last game was some pinnacle to gameplay for how I played it. It was good, but that doesn't mean it's a standard for how my playstyle is. My playstyle will fluctuate, and I have stuck to a singular story, which I have prompted over time. The only "contradicting" element that you provide is the idea that I changed my stance on how I handled the situation. Which I did change because there was options presented for how I could have handled it. But just because I was presented with these options after the matter doesn't change the fact that initally I didn't think of said option. As of now, I do see them and how I could have handled them. But as I've said multiple times, I handled things the way I did because it's the way I saw best fit to handle it.

rat · 2019-09-21 22:41:22

mutantdevle wrote:

In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story.

i think we gotta keep in mind that shadow was mafia last game, so he was probably thinking about his posts a lot more

however, when he was confronted by whoever about getting really upset (this game), it seemed like he had to think of a reason to back up why he was getting upset. once he thought of "oh, i'm getting upset because it's likely i'll be lynched even with one vote, because of the universe thing," it was almost like he realized that this was a good excuse, and so he keeps repeating it hoping that we see it as a valid explanation for getting upset. i do think it's a good reason by itself, but i'm starting to doubt it because of how much he is rambling about it, and how ramb-ly he's getting in general

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:44:16

mrjawapa wrote:

What do you expect to see moving forward into D1, and N1, dev?

Thank you Mr J.

Well things are hotting up on day 1 as there have been some major accusations flying around.

If you think events have been stupid so far then just you wait because a little birdie has told me that there are some exciting twists and turns just around the corner. I've been told there's not going to be just 1 but 2 lynches today. Yes that's a whole 2 ladies and gentlemen! Now the more observant of you may have noticed that only 1 person is currently being accused of being scum - so the results of the lynch may just surprise you.

Heading into the evening and overnight there's going to be a lot of confusion primarily because of the sheer amount of power roles. The mafia teams have gained a tiny bit of juicy information prompting the question, do they make the safe obvious kill or try for something more risky? Well, we know how playing the safe game worked out for the mafia team last game... oh wait no we don't 'the mafia are making safe plays' was a lie created by the real mafia team. I wonder what lies the current mafias are concocting. I guess only time will tell.

rat, mrjawapa

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:48:42

Shadow what are your reads?

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 22:50:52

eleizibeth wrote:

i think we gotta keep in mind that shadow was mafia last game, so he was probably thinking about his posts a lot more

As mafia he'd need to think of a convincing lie to tell. As town, all he has to do is tell the truth. Yet somehow he's seemingly better at lying than telling the truth?? That just doesn't make sense to me.

rat

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 22:51:16

eleizibeth wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story.
i think we gotta keep in mind that shadow was mafia last game, so he was probably thinking about his posts a lot more
however, when he was confronted by whoever about getting really upset (this game), it seemed like he had to think of a reason to back up why he was getting upset. once he thought of "oh, i'm getting upset because it's likely i'll be lynched even with one vote, because of the universe thing," it was almost like he realized that this was a good excuse, and so he keeps repeating it hoping that we see it as a valid explanation for getting upset. i do think it's a good reason by itself, but i'm starting to doubt it because of how much he is rambling about it, and how ramb-ly he's getting in general

I didn't get upset, I just pointed out the fact that Norwegian and Luka didn't give way to any sort of stance to see me as Town. They were certain I was Mafia, from within the time frame people started saying I was getting "paranoid." My opinion that I would be lynched had nothing to do with the universe, it was the fact that plurality lynch takes place, and I was sure that there would be no other point in question for any other claims. I was wrong in assuming there would be no Policy lynches, which is my mistake. And even in that case, the case against me is building up, so in reality, I still hold to that expectation. Just because I saw it as a "Good Excuse" doesn't mean that I pushed the idea for me being "upset." I restate the fact because I've been asked multiple times as to why I've been acting "paranoid" or now "upset." I'm getting "Ramble-y" because I have no other way to push my point. I've tried saying my points and getting people to listen to reason, but it's been met with backlash and more reasonings for why that pins me as Mafia. So yeah, I'm being more Rambley than I was last game, but it's not just for the heck of it.

mutantdevle wrote:

Heading into the evening and overnight there's going to be a lot of confusion primarily because of the sheer amount of power roles. The mafia teams have gained a tiny bit of juicy information prompting the question, do they make the safe obvious kill or try for something more risky? Well, we know how playing the safe game worked out for the mafia team last game... oh wait no we don't 'the mafia are making safe plays' was a lie created by the real mafia team. I wonder what lies the current mafias are concocting. I guess only time will tell.

The Mafia can kill anyone and it provides them no harm. There is no Doctor, there is no Veteran, there is no Lookout, and there is no Tracker. They can realistically choose whoever they like, and the only drawback they will be faced with is the matter that if the person they attempt to kill is from a different universe, their kill will fail. But other than that, there's no drawback to choosing whoever they'd like to kill whenever they want. So there's not really a "safe kill" or a "risky kill" because the only sense of risk is the Universe aspect.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 23:01:17

mutantdevle wrote:

Shadow what are your reads?

Norwegian is suspicious. Norwegian chose me specifically while deterring from you, Taskmanager, Jawapa, Crybaby, etc. All people who have been known to play well, and be a strong enemy of the town, if they happen to be Mafia.

I don't have strong suspicions against anyone else though. Luka could be seen as suspicious, but in the case that Norwegian is Mafia, I think it's more likely that Norwegian is trying to frame Luka. Alternatively if Norwegian is Town (Which I'm not completely against the idea of observing), then it's more likely that Luka is Mafia, and hiding behind Norwegian's strong claims in order to put less suspicion onto them.

Again, more forward, if Norwegian is Mafia, I'd consider you, or Task mostly as their teammate. Norwegian's main claim to choosing me specifically as their target could apply to both of you, as well as Crybaby or Jawapa. But Jawapa and Crybaby have been relatively inactive, so i cant say much about them. However, Norwegian has been more passive towards you and Task, which could be to not draw suspicion to either of you (On the case that Norwegian is Mafia). Although, not definite, only a possibility.

As for this:

mutantdevle wrote:

eleizibeth wrote:
i think we gotta keep in mind that shadow was mafia last game, so he was probably thinking about his posts a lot more
As mafia he'd need to think of a convincing lie to tell. As town, all he has to do is tell the truth. Yet somehow he's seemingly better at lying than telling the truth?? That just doesn't make sense to me.

I have been telling the truth. The only reason it seems like Im "better at lying than telling the truth," is because I've tried defending myself, which came off as more scummy, and then eventually led to me just being read as scum. I've said before that it's something of my own demise, but it's seemingly impossible to change the opinion of me, because the stance is already drastically set in one direction that all the posts I make only add to that description of "scum" that I've been pinned with.

The only difference with this game than last game is that my lies were more convincing because I panned them out, and was able to make grounds for my claims. This game, going fully onto the truth, I'm not panning out a story for which I'm to follow, I'm simply restating the events as I experienced them.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 23:01:28

ShadowsEdge wrote:

The Mafia can kill anyone and it provides them no harm. There is no Doctor, there is no Veteran, there is no Lookout, and there is no Tracker. They can realistically choose whoever they like, and the only drawback they will be faced with is the matter that if the person they attempt to kill is from a different universe, their kill will fail. But other than that, there's no drawback to choosing whoever they'd like to kill whenever they want. So there's not really a "safe kill" or a "risky kill" because the only sense of risk is the Universe aspect.

Their kill failing IS harm. Hence the safe kills are the ones that they can be more confident on succeeding. Anatoly revealing he's Omega coupled with the approximately 50% chance that we learn the universal alignment of someone by way of them not being lynched means the mafia goes into the night either both having a small bit of information or 1 having a tiny bit of information whilst the other has a medium. That's enough for 1 or both factions to have a safe option.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 23:03:35

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Norwegian chose me specifically while deterring from you, Taskmanager, Jawapa, Crybaby, etc.

Could it not be possible that he simply made a random choice from among the strongest players?

Also, your reads list is missing a lot of names.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 23:07:01

mutantdevle wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
The Mafia can kill anyone and it provides them no harm. There is no Doctor, there is no Veteran, there is no Lookout, and there is no Tracker. They can realistically choose whoever they like, and the only drawback they will be faced with is the matter that if the person they attempt to kill is from a different universe, their kill will fail. But other than that, there's no drawback to choosing whoever they'd like to kill whenever they want. So there's not really a "safe kill" or a "risky kill" because the only sense of risk is the Universe aspect.
Their kill failing IS harm. Hence the safe kills are the ones that they can be more confident on succeeding. Anatoly revealing he's Omega coupled with the approximately 50% chance that we learn the universal alignment of someone by way of them not being lynched means the mafia goes into the night either both having a small bit of information or 1 having a tiny bit of information whilst the other has a medium. That's enough for 1 or both factions to have a safe option.

They can choose anyone they'd like, and yes, they'd have the chance to miskill. But in that sense, it doesn't reveal any of them as Mafia. That's why I said it provided no harm. They'd want to choose someone in their universe, of course, but them choosing to kill a specific person doesn't hurt them in a negative way, it's more in a neutral way, since no kill was done, but none of them are revealed. The second part of that statement I do agree with, but it's not the point I was making.

Also for this:

mutantdevle wrote:

Also, your reads list is missing a lot of names.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I don't have strong suspicions against anyone else though.

I don't strongly suspect anyone else.Everyone else seems neutral to me. There was stuff brought up about Peace, but I don't know Peace all that well, so to me it just seemed pretty neutral in general, and most of the other people I've seen posts from also just gave a neutral feeling. So I just put it as not having strong suspicions.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 23:09:58

mutantdevle wrote:

Could it not be possible that he simply made a random choice from among the strongest players?

It's possible, but highly unlikely. He's focused specifically on me, and while he's stated his reasons for focusing me, has yet to follow through on that claim to any other person other than me.

Luka504 · 2019-09-21 23:29:00

Ugh, with so many long winded posts circling about, I've already gotten tired of this game.

Anyway, I won't be online much tomorrow, if at all. I'll try to read what's happening but I likely won't post anything.

My vote stays on Shadow.

peace

rat · 2019-09-21 23:29:50

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I didn't get upset, I just pointed out the fact that Norwegian and Luka didn't give way to any sort of stance to see me as Town. They were certain I was Mafia, from within the time frame people started saying I was getting "paranoid." My opinion that I would be lynched had nothing to do with the universe, it was the fact that plurality lynch takes place, and I was sure that there would be no other point in question for any other claims. I was wrong in assuming there would be no Policy lynches, which is my mistake. And even in that case, the case against me is building up, so in reality, I still hold to that expectation. Just because I saw it as a "Good Excuse" doesn't mean that I pushed the idea for me being "upset." I restate the fact because I've been asked multiple times as to why I've been acting "paranoid" or now "upset." I'm getting "Ramble-y" because I have no other way to push my point. I've tried saying my points and getting people to listen to reason, but it's been met with backlash and more reasonings for why that pins me as Mafia. So yeah, I'm being more Rambley than I was last game, but it's not just for the heck of it.

first of all, i'm using "upset" as a term for "mildly dissatisfied"
now that i think about it, your ramblings do sound like you just want us to believe you. like you're just frustrated that no one believes you, which i can definitely empathize with. while i do think you're being honest, i thought you were being honest last game, but,, evidentially,, you were not. i think your manipulation skills from last game kinda says that your words can't really be trusted, even if you are town, and that's kinda the only reason i, and many others, think you probably aren't town in this game as well. like, this could all be a lie and we would be proven stupid,, yet again. maybe u shouldn't have played so well last game u_u..
anyway, if i ignore last mafia game, it does seem like you're being targeted, and you can't really do anything to prove your innocence.
(side note: sorry if my posts make no sense and that they're taking so long to write, i literally cannot think or focus at the moment. Thanks for being patient )

TaskManager · 2019-09-22 00:10:47

im unsure on what to make of shadow/norboy/luka drama because of how distinctive are shadow's and norboy's playstyles from past games

last time we had a player pressured and screaming at everyone because they are getting the heat, we didnt believe them, and they turned out to be a doctor (norboy in french revo)
i dont want the same thing to happen again

rat

TaskManager · 2019-09-22 00:13:26

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Norwegian chose me specifically while deterring from you, Taskmanager, Jawapa, Crybaby, etc.

i dont agree with lynching someone because they played well as a mafia in the previous game
however, if we pick by that criteria, you would be indeed the most eligible choice since you pretty much went under the radar in french revo game

Onjit · 2019-09-22 02:59:21

Current votes:

[3] Peace: mrjawapa, Kira, Andymakeer
[2] ShadowsEdge: NorwegianboyEE, Luka504
[1] Anatoly: TaskManager

About 24 hours remain.

I'd like to ask people to use the [ h ] tags for votes from now on, because I don't want to accidentally miss any votes. Thanks.

Also @Kirby, if you could make a post some time in this game, that'd be great.

Andymakeer · 2019-09-22 04:55:38

TLDR by far for the voted ones:

ShadowsEdge took the voting personally.
Peace is being the usual Peace.
Anatoly is common lynch in every mafia LOL.

2b55b5g · 2019-09-22 05:28:13

To be honest, Shadow, blame yourself for getting in this situation. If you weren’t so set on that you will be lynched, maybe you would’ve got out of this situation. When Norboy placed his vote on you, it’s still very early in the game, and I think at that time he wasn’t even set about his vote. So your thought about you are 100% getting lynched is very weird.
Also, your ‘oh I’m 100% going to be lynched’ attitude somehow gives me an impression that you want people to vote for you.

One thing I want to mention is that both Norboy and Shadow’s playstyle are very different from the previous game. I can understand Norboy being aggressive, based on his experience on the previous game. But Shadow, I don’t understand it, when Zelda voted for you in the previous game, you weren’t even panicking about it. Now Norboy votes for you, then you have that ‘oh I’m gonna be lynched’ attitude. I don’t understand this sudden change.

But I agree that Norboy was focused on Shadow, he never suggested an alternative or something, only trying to make Shadow more and more suspicious.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-22 06:36:54

TaskManager wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Norwegian chose me specifically while deterring from you, Taskmanager, Jawapa, Crybaby, etc.
i dont agree with lynching someone because they played well as a mafia in the previous game
however, if we pick by that criteria, you would be indeed the most eligible choice since you pretty much went under the radar in french revo game

I suppose that's true. But it still doesn't justify Norwegian solely focusing on me. They could have gone to other options, but stuck firmly onto me for the entirety of the day.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

To be honest, Shadow, blame yourself for getting in this situation.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

So no, I don't have proof of me being town. I've tried helping, and I've tried to have a stance of being town, but each time I do, the fact that I said scummy things, unintentionally mind you, brought me into a position where I can no longer be read as town because of the things I've said. And I'm not blaming that part on you, that part is my own fault.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

If you weren’t so set on that you will be lynched, maybe you would’ve got out of this situation. When Norboy placed his vote on you, it’s still very early in the game, and I think at that time he wasn’t even set about his vote. So your thought about you are 100% getting lynched is very weird.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Like I said before. At the time, I believed there was nothing I could do. Hindsight is always 20/20. I could have handled it differently, as people have pointed out ways I could have handled it. But the point isn't about how I "could have handled it." The way I handled it was the way I thought was the right way, and I'll stick to that. But the reason I have changed my opinion is because yes, people have provided ways that I could have handled it. I still stick to the story that at the time, I saw no other option, because that's how it appeared to me when I was initially handling it.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

One thing I want to mention is that both Norboy and Shadow’s playstyle are very different from the previous game. I can understand Norboy being aggressive, based on his experience on the previous game. But Shadow, I don’t understand it, when Zelda voted for you in the previous game, you weren’t even panicking about it. Now Norboy votes for you, then you have that ‘oh I’m gonna be lynched’ attitude. I don’t understand this sudden change.

mutantdevle wrote:

You honestly confuse me. In the previous game you were phenomenal, yet now you can't even stick to the same story. I have different reasons to suspect you than that of Luka and Norwegian and in trying to defend yourself against each of our's points you keep contradicting yourself.

I'm not sure if you just didn't read the thread or something, but all of the points you've made in that post have been talked about and discussed already.

I've said before that my reaction to Norwegian's vote wasn't me "panicking" or anything. I did exaggerate, because it's how I saw it at the time. I chose to take a different approach this game. Whereas last game, I had no reason to need to defend myself, this game I chose to do so, because defending myself would be the only way I would survive because of the circumstances of last game. Yet, after I did defend myself I'm labeled as "panicking" or "nervous" or some other stupid excuse like that.

Anatoly · 2019-09-22 07:01:08

About 20 hours remain. We don’t have enough information, for i’ll just vote completely random:

https://m.imgur.com/a/58uaxMx

!vote 2b55b5g tng

Anatoly · 2019-09-22 07:09:54

Interestingly to mention: Once mafia of one universe is defeated, knowing who is from which universe makes you town or target for suspect.

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#170 2019-09-22 02:59:21, last edited by Onjit (2019-09-22 04:22:18)

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!vote 2b55b5g tng

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