Mafia 31 [Mafia Win]

Anatoly · 2019-09-21 18:41:08

ZeldaXD wrote:

Anatoly wrote:
ZeldaXD wrote:
Anatoly wrote:
I see taskmanager figured out my message and knows what universe I'm in. I hope trusting him was not a mistake. I'm also sure taskmanager is in my universe.
And now you confirm something very obvious to see for anyone who pays a little bit of attention to Task's last post, so you're essentially universe-claiming...
Nope. I'm sure you're not looking close enough.
Acta deos numquam mortalia fallunt

Lingua Anglis dice!

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Anatoly just can't keep anything secret can he?

I can when I feel there's a need of it to be secret.

====

Anybody votes?

[3] Peace: Luka504, mrjawapa, Kira
[1] ShadowsEdge: NorwegianboyEE
[1] Anαtoly: TαskMαnαger

^right now

Anatoly · 2019-09-21 18:43:24

oh **** my internet

Andymakeer · 2019-09-21 18:48:20

!lynch peace

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:49:23

Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.

TaskManager, Minimania, 2b55b5g

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 18:50:15

Anatoly wrote:

That being said my claim of the universe made me victim for night 1 :/

I mean, now that you say this, I doubt you revealing your universe is even a bad thing. I'm pretty sure there is 0 risk that the mafia are going to kill you.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 19:08:36

mutantdevle wrote:

Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.

My whole point is that no one else was going to be lynched. Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place. It didn't matter if people joined a bandwagon on me, because if I was the only one being voted at the end of the day, I would be lynched either way, because of plurality.

I stuck by the stance of "I'm gonna be lynched" because what else was I supposed to believe? It was obvious Norwegian would not change his mind. And at the time I didn't think anyone else would be a target for lynch, because I didn't think Policy lynches would still ensue.

Anatoly · 2019-09-21 19:10:22

ShadowsEdge wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.
My whole point is that no one else was going to be lynched. Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place. It didn't matter if people joined a bandwagon on me, because if I was the only one being voted at the end of the day, I would be lynched either way, because of plurality.
I stuck by the stance of "I'm gonna be lynched" because what else was I supposed to believe? It was obvious Norwegian would not change his mind. And at the time I didn't think anyone else would be a target for lynch, because I didn't think Policy lynches would still ensue.

You're reaction was like me on stack exchange.

*Topic created*

*f*** it, again - 2 downvotes*

*2 hours later*

*13 upvotes*

Just be patient unlike me, and everything will be fine.

mutantdevle · 2019-09-21 19:15:19

ShadowsEdge wrote:

mutantdevle wrote:
Shadow, you came to the conclusion that your lynch was inevitable after 1 vote, 1 **** reason for being suspicious of you, and no alternatives being suggested after only 2 hours of you being voted. I don't see how you can honestly describe that as anything other than an overreaction. The reasons were weak, you knew that. Why on earth would you think that literally everyone else would suddenly join a wagon against you based on blatantly weak reasonings? Why would you think that no one else could possibly be seen as suspicious with over 30 hours still left in the day? The only way you could be that sure that you were 100% gonna die is if you thought the rest of us were immensely thick and were just gonna sheep everything Luka and Norwegian said.
My whole point is that no one else was going to be lynched. Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place. It didn't matter if people joined a bandwagon on me, because if I was the only one being voted at the end of the day, I would be lynched either way, because of plurality.
I stuck by the stance of "I'm gonna be lynched" because what else was I supposed to believe? It was obvious Norwegian would not change his mind. And at the time I didn't think anyone else would be a target for lynch, because I didn't think Policy lynches would still ensue.

It had been 2 hours. Of course there wasn't going to much discussion about other candidates in 2 hours especially when the people active in that time were the people you were arguing with.

TaskManager · 2019-09-21 19:26:10

Anatoly wrote:

On start the probability for this happening is way to high, agreed. Maybe D1 - X || Y, D2 - given on information 2 people, then only one per day?

what does that even mean
this is literally why i ignore most of your posts and why i voted you

ShadowsEdge wrote:

My whole point is that no one else was going to be lynched. Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place. It didn't matter if people joined a bandwagon on me, because if I was the only one being voted at the end of the day, I would be lynched either way, because of plurality.

it was just a few hours into the game holy ****
how did you deduce no one else was going to be lynched

Luka504

Norwee · 2019-09-21 19:27:41

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place.

Or i would have just unvoted...
You really went ahead and made a big deal about my initial RVS vote huh?

Luka504 · 2019-09-21 19:37:37

All right, I'm home.
Okay so, the thing I wanted to talk about most was Shadow's overreaction, but Devin's post covered pretty much everything I wanted to say about that topic, so I'll move onto something else that rubbed be the wrong way.

This post:

ShadowsEdge wrote:

Understandable, but you guys do realize I was helpful to everyone even as Mafia, I might not have seemed like it after the game concluded, but all of you believed me because I was helpful to everyone. I know I'm not mafia so I'm just trying to help genuinely now.

This just... This sounds weirdly manipulative, doesn't it?
We haven't really talked about this post, but it seems pretty important to me.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 19:38:27

TaskManager wrote:

it was just a few hours into the game holy ****
how did you deduce no one else was going to be lynched

I deduced that because I was the target. In hindsight, yes, I could have handled the situation better. But there's not much I could have done even if I did know at the time that I could have simply waited it out.

I would have still been suspected and the whole cycle would have continued. I deduced that no one else would be lynched because if there was suspicion on me, which is something more than just a Policy lynch, what reason would people have to continue with a Policy lynch? They could have done nothing, could have voted for me as well, and in general, I just had the feeling that it was going to be the outcome it of it.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
Plurality lynch takes place, so yes, I jumped to the conclusion. One vote on me, and no votes on anyone else. Just one vote. That makes me be lynched because plurality lynch takes place.
Or i would have just unvoted...
You really went ahead and made a big deal about my initial RVS vote huh?

You've made it clear you have no intentions of unvoting. You said within the first 19 posts of the game that you already had your mind set about me, and that was before anything truly started to go into a snowball effect. So do you really expect me to believe that you would have changed your mind?

TaskManager · 2019-09-21 19:56:17

ShadowsEdge wrote:

there was suspicion on me, which is something more than just a Policy lynch

suspicion?
what for?
from what i understood it was based entirely on previous games and was unreasonable as hell

mutantdevle

Anatoly · 2019-09-21 19:57:57

you realise the more you talk the more you are at suspect?

Anatoly · 2019-09-21 19:58:17

above post is deidcated to shadowsedge

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 20:03:34

TaskManager wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
there was suspicion on me, which is something more than just a Policy lynch
suspicion?
what for?
from what i understood it was based entirely on previous games and was unreasonable as hell

It was unreasonable, yes, but I didn't want to just leave it as is. Especially so early on in the game. Had I just kept talking, ignoring the points that came to me, as I tried doing, I would have been continued to be suspected.

Anatoly wrote:

you realise the more you talk the more you are at suspect?

I have nothing to hide. If I just go silent, then that's just proving them right. I'm open about everything I've done this game thus far, so if I'm gonna be suspected further for saying what I want to say, then so be it.

Norwee · 2019-09-21 20:12:17

ShadowsEdge wrote:

You've made it clear you have no intentions of unvoting. You said within the first 19 posts of the game that you already had your mind set about me, and that was before anything truly started to go into a snowball effect. So do you really expect me to believe that you would have changed your mind?

Good god man, you keep projecting these images of people based on what you think they would do. Is it so hard for you to believe that i was simply testing you? I already said this many posts back, i want to know if you are truly on our side or not. But your recent posts hasn't helped you counteract my suspicions. Ironically, your constant attempts at painting me as a person that would "never take my vote back" is actually having that exact effect and making me want to lynch you more than ever.
It's not like i can say much constructive to your counterarguments when you create your own simplified straw men and attack their flaws like they represent the real thing.

Luka504 · 2019-09-21 20:23:29

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I have nothing to hide. If I just go silent, then that's just proving them right.

Dude, there were many different ways you could have handled the situation that didn't involve staying silent.

For example, if you had just said that my 'I know I am not mafia' arguments were petty and meant nothing, and stuck with that, you'd probably not only have not been suspected, but you could have probably spun it in a way that made me look scummy.

But you were flustered and blurted out a lot of suspcious ****, and the more you talk, the worse your situation gets.

!lynch ShadowsEdge

mutantdevle, 2b55b5g

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 20:37:46

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
You've made it clear you have no intentions of unvoting. You said within the first 19 posts of the game that you already had your mind set about me, and that was before anything truly started to go into a snowball effect. So do you really expect me to believe that you would have changed your mind?
Good god man, you keep projecting these images of people based on what you think they would do. Is it so hard for you to believe that i was simply testing you? I already said this many posts back, i want to know if you are truly on our side or not. But your recent posts hasn't helped you counteract my suspicions. Ironically, your constant attempts at painting me as a person that would "never take my vote back" is actually having that exact effect and making me want to lynch you more than ever.
It's not like i can say much constructive to your counterarguments when you create your own simplified straw men and attack their flaws like they represent the real thing.

Do you expect me to believe that you would change your mind on you stance of me when your 5th post in the game was saying that you I should be lynched? You had reasons, I can't counteract those reasons. And yes, I turn it back to you because I suspect you. And it's not specifically because of your stance on suspecting me, but it's because you went so quickly into suspecting me. Your first post was a lynch against me (Even if it was a joke, it was still there), 4th post was trying to put me as mafia, 5th post was saying that I would be a good lynch candidate. And by your 9th post, you had made it clear that you were going to keep your vote on me. Not even within 10 posts you had made a definite decision on me, based on claims with no structure, and brushed over points I made. I've brought up points others have made of me, I've brought up my own points about me, and they've been dismissed each time, because you already have an image of me.

You aren't willing to see an alternative, so I took a different route, I started a case against you. Whether that case will hold it's grounds or not is unknown. But the idea that you're so quick to focus on me is what I find to be suspicious.

Luka504 wrote:

Dude, there were many different ways you could have handled the situation that didn't involve staying silent.

Hindsight is 20/20. But at the time, as I've said before, I didn't think of any other way to go about it. So I went about it the way I thought would work for me, which was to ignore the situation. And as I did so, more suspicions came about me (from you and Norwegian), in which it became a situation I couldn't just ignore anymore. So I went about it, again, the way I thought would work for me. I couldn't defend against a case that provided no tangible evidence against me. So yes, in hindsight, I could have handled it better, but just because I "could have" or "should have" doesn't mean I did. I went about things the way I thought I should have. And so providing alternatives for how I "could have handled the situation" doesn't really provide any insight on anything.

Luka504 wrote:

For example, if you had just said that my 'I know I am not mafia' arguments were petty and meant nothing, and stuck with that, you'd probably not only have not been suspected, but you could have probably spun it in a way that made me look scummy.

Why would I purposefully try to make you look scummy? You pointed out an accusation and there's more to it than just saying that because I was Mafia last game, I could definitely be mafia this game.

Luka504 wrote:

But you were flustered and blurted out a lot of suspcious ****, and the more you talk, the worse your situation gets.

I never got nervous about the situation, I just provided an alternative, one that no one is willing to look towards, and tried defending myself.

At this point, my suspicions on me are the least of my worries. I'm more focused on trying to find plausible candidates for mafia. I'm aware me talking makes my situation worse. But why should things being made worse for me be a cause for me to just stop talking altogether? I keep talking despite it making me more suspicious because I have no reason to stop talking. I am town, so if you want to suspect me and lynch me, then so be it. Me just not talking altogether isn't an option, because I'll be putting my input in whether it makes me more suspicious or not.

Norwee · 2019-09-21 20:51:59

ShadowsEdge wrote:

You aren't willing to see an alternative, so I took a different route, I started a case against you. Whether that case will hold it's grounds or not is unknown. But the idea that you're so quick to focus on me is what I find to be suspicious.

What is your "case" exactly?
My impression so far has been more like a: "You vote me, therefore you are scum!" argument.

ShadowsEdge · 2019-09-21 21:02:14

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

ShadowsEdge wrote:
You aren't willing to see an alternative, so I took a different route, I started a case against you. Whether that case will hold it's grounds or not is unknown. But the idea that you're so quick to focus on me is what I find to be suspicious.
What is your "case" exactly?
My impression so far has been more like a: "You vote me, therefore you are scum!" argument.

You still ignore my points. I've said before that I suspect you because you're quick to claim me as scum. You could have chosen anyone, yet you chose me specifically, disregarding the opinions of others, and focusing heavily on me. You disregard every point I make, and focus on the idea of me being Mafia. But for what? Especially on Day 1 you would know not to go so quickly into pushing a lynch on someone. And on the point of something you've made, I've mentioned how you're playing this game differently to last game. You're much more aggressive, whereas last game you put suspicion unto Luka for being aggressive, this game, you're openly being aggressive and taking charge on someone you don't even have definite proof of being Mafia. You went straight into a lynch against me, contrary to last game, where, again, you waited to gather more information before making a stance. Whereas in this game, you quickly jumped onto the idea that I must be mafia because my posts have a slightly scummy attribute to them. I've admitted to having such traits to my post, but what am I supposed to do to fix it? I've been marked from last game, because I'll always be a suspect because of how I played last game. So I went about things the way I thought I should. I find you suspicious because you don't look at an alternative, you hold strictly onto the idea that I have to be mafia, and disregard any opinion of a possibility that I could be town. You did mention it at one point, I'll say that, but mentioning the alternative isn't the same as exploring the alternative, You mention it once, and call it quits there. Thereafter you stick to the idea you've been holding onto the entire day.

So yes, I have suspicions on you. While they aren't any definite scum tells, I'll admit, at least I'm admitting the idea that there's a possibility you could be town. I don't hold strictly onto the idea that you're Mafia, I proposed the idea, but I'm not heavily enforcing it. So take with it what you will.

Kira · 2019-09-21 21:16:28

Friendly reminder that there are 15 players and not 1

ZeldaXD · 2019-09-21 21:33:41

I made an activity table

USERNAME		POSTS
----------------------------------------------------
ShadowsEdge		27
NorwegianboyEE		24
Anatoly			23
mutantdevle		12
Luka504			12
TaskManager		10
peace			10
2B55B5G TNG		7
Crybaby			5
ZeldaXD			5 (I'm counting this one)
mrjawapa		4
Kira			4
Andymakeer		1
Kirby			0
eleizibeth		0

Note: More/less activity doesn't mean scum, it's just an informative table.

mrjawapa · 2019-09-21 21:34:38

Welcome to mafia 31, staring Anatoly and Shadowsedge.

I'll be the commentator for this evening's events. Along side me, tonight, is professional game analyzer, devle.

If you're just tuning in, there is only one way to describe the action so far: utterly stupid.

What do you expect to see moving forward into D1, and N1, dev?

Norwee · 2019-09-21 21:41:18

ShadowsEdge wrote:

I've said before that I suspect you because you're quick to claim me as scum. You could have chosen anyone, yet you chose me specifically, disregarding the opinions of others, and focusing heavily on me.

I chose you because i know from past experience that you could be a potential major threat to the town as a scum player. One could always go the same old route of policy voting Peace or Anatoly, but if they are scum i don't think they would be a danger to the towncore, you however could be. That's why my initial plan was to quickly sort you into a townread by putting you under pressure with the RVS vote and getting the game started with some discussion other than "Hey, come! Let's lynch the annoying!" like Anatoly would put it.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

You disregard every point I make, and focus on the idea of me being Mafia. But for what? Especially on Day 1 you would know not to go so quickly into pushing a lynch on someone. And on the point of something you've made, I've mentioned how you're playing this game differently to last game. You're much more aggressive, whereas last game you put suspicion unto Luka for being aggressive, this game, you're openly being aggressive and taking charge on someone you don't even have definite proof of being Mafia. You went straight into a lynch against me, contrary to last game, where, again, you waited to gather more information before making a stance. Whereas in this game, you quickly jumped onto the idea that I must be mafia because my posts have a slightly scummy attribute to them.

Aggressiveness is a vital tool in making sure scum-hunting yields results, I've played many mafia games off-site and have since solidified the lesson i learned in the last EE mafia game of what happens when one fails to properly push one's scumreads and the town loses the game as a result. Behaving differently from the last game isn't necessarily a surefire scumtell, and if it is. Then that makes the player in question a bad player since they can be easily read in seconds based on their meta playing style. Might i also remind you that "waiting for information" in the last EE mafia game is what put me off the initial trail i had on Luka504 and consequently 2B55B5G TNG? Players whom were later revealed to be scum? What exactly am i doing wrong here, when you yourself admit that a portion of your posts seem scummy, yet that somehow makes me suspicious because i pick up on it and pressure you based on it?

Shadowsedge wrote:

I've admitted to having such traits to my post, but what am I supposed to do to fix it? I've been marked from last game, because I'll always be a suspect because of how I played last game. So I went about things the way I thought I should. I find you suspicious because you don't look at an alternative, you hold strictly onto the idea that I have to be mafia, and disregard any opinion of a possibility that I could be town. You did mention it at one point, I'll say that, but mentioning the alternative isn't the same as exploring the alternative, You mention it once, and call it quits there. Thereafter you stick to the idea you've been holding onto the entire day.

What about your behavior has been townie so far? I'm trying to pick up on it, but i can't see it. I hate to repeat this to you again, but you've said yourself that your posts "have a slightly scummy attribute to them." I'm not sure if you're trying to dig your own grave or what. But almost nothing about your behavior in this entire game has seemed logical.

ShadowsEdge wrote:

So yes, I have suspicions on you. While they aren't any definite scum tells, I'll admit, at least I'm admitting the idea that there's a possibility you could be town. I don't hold strictly onto the idea that you're Mafia, I proposed the idea, but I'm not heavily enforcing it. So take with it what you will.

This might be the only point you've made that makes me feel better about your slot. I don't think scum under pressure would avoid an opportunity to paint the accuser as maybe being town rather than claiming the attack on them is 100% scum motivated. I still wouldn't leave it behind me for you to be capable of playing this way as scum. But from the moment i'm writing this, i'll take a moment to reconsider your slot and take a look at the bigger picture.

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