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#26 2019-05-13 20:14:10

mikelolsuperman
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From: North Korea
Joined: 2016-06-26
Posts: 1,399
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Re: custom teams

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Stop bullying colorblinds //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/sad

Ok shape teams when.


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#27 2019-05-13 22:13:12

Raphe9000
Member
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,314

Re: custom teams

I'm all about compromise. I think teams are actually very valuable since nothing in the game acts exactly like them. I wish we had a few more too, but user-friendly restrictions make it hard. Luckily, there is a way to fix this that supports up to 15 unique team colors. I think we would perform much better with 12 mind you, but this format effortlessly supports 15 teams without much confusion.

Like Mikelolsuperman pointed out, shapes work well. The best way to add more teams whilst keeping them all unique is to make teams that change in both shape and color. You could actually make a ton teams with the teams we already have by differentiating by shape separate from color, but this would break team doors and gates whilst causing confusion. I took 15 colors that are normally not confusing to people with normal vision and can be confusing to people with colorblindness, specifically making sure that a color is confusing with no more than 2 other colors in any color blindness and making sure they can all be divided into 3 without different kinds of colorblindness getting a better deal than the other. The shapes I decided on were circle, triangle, and square since they are very simple and can be differentiated at a glance. Anyone who can't tell a team by its color can tell it by its shape. I highly suggest team doors and gates would change icons depending on color and an X for no team since gray can actually be easily confused. I included it in the sample so one would know where to put it. This would still make it harder for color blind people to identify teams compared to non-colorblind individuals, but colors with permanent shapes make it easier than it is now without making it harder for us.

If you want better results, remove the colors I put an asterisk after.

Circle: #56b4e9* #0072b2 #d52000 #cc79a7 #007e5d
Square: #797979* #482400 #990099 #00c4b1 #f0e438
Triangle: #00ff00* #f90791 #e69f00 #000000 #ffffff

Depending on your forum theme, some of these might not look great. Just remember that these would show up in-game with a border. Some may look similar; that's one reason I think 12 colors or less would be better. If you think they will look similar but don't have any proof except for your idea on how colorblind people see, please try to test your hypothesis first before replying.

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#28 2019-05-14 06:45:17

peace
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From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,849

Re: custom teams

^ why not use the same colors for the diffrent shapes to allow more combinations and heck more shapes woudltn be bad aswell

EDIT i just got an idea of 2 new doors that coudl be added let say th enromalteam doors will chec your team AND shape a new door could check only color (not shape) and another will oly check shape (not color) ;ast 2 can be used incase diffrentteams are used wiht diffrent effects for exmaple capeture the flag blue team has diffrent poeple with difffrent effects so they give players diffrent shapes as a team but all soudl be bale to walk through blue doors in the field centrain effects can enter centrain areas so a shape checker will check that fro you

Last edited by peace (2019-05-14 06:47:40)


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#29 2019-05-14 11:46:20

Raphe9000
Member
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,314

Re: custom teams

peace wrote:

^ why not use the same colors for the diffrent shapes to allow more combinations and heck more shapes woudltn be bad aswell

Raphe9000 wrote:

The best way to add more teams whilst keeping them all unique is to make teams that change in both shape and color. You could actually make a ton teams with the teams we already have by differentiating by shape separate from color, but this would break team doors and gates whilst causing confusion.

Raphe9000 wrote:

This would still make it harder for color blind people to identify teams compared to non-colorblind individuals, but colors with permanent shapes make it easier than it is now without making it harder for us.

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#30 2019-05-14 14:25:03

Koya
Fabulous Design Team
From: The island with those Brits
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 6,263

Re: custom teams

I can't remember what game but it had a colour to shape form like this which is neat and really clear expecially as not requiring players to differentiate between a square and a circle

Scvpxrl.png

I couldn't think of 6 distinct shapes - only 6 distinct lines (I, -, X, Z, C, L)


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#31 2019-05-14 15:48:50

Raphe9000
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Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,314

Re: custom teams

Koya wrote:

I can't remember what game but it had a colour to shape form like this which is neat and really clear expecially as not requiring players to differentiate between a square and a circle
I couldn't think of 6 distinct shapes - only 6 distinct lines (I, -, X, Z, C, L)

I chose square, circle, and triangle not just because they're easy to identify but also because they would maintain that whilst fitting into EE well. What you're suggesting would be perfect for EEU with bigger sprites and (I'd assume) an art style that would take advantage of that fact, but these may not look as good or identifiable in EE today. I think we do need a solution before EEU too because adding more teams is one thing, but making the game colorblind friendly should be a top priority. Sure someone with Tritanopia can play the game pretty well, but it becomes harder for someone with the semi-common Deuteranopia. If you have Protanopia, you're just out of luck since many teams and effects are nearly indistinguishable.

On implementing your design into EEU, I think it 100% should be added. It also is Dyslexic friendly since the shapes you showed that are rotated forms of another have colors that will not be confused by any form of colorblindness (except maybe monochromacy though the chance of a monochromatic dyslexic person playing Everybody Edits is like a 0.0000000000003% chance, and the colors you chose seem to be different enough in luminosity that someone with monochromacy would probably be able to tell the difference since they have only been able to tell things different in color apart by luminosity their whole life). I also recommend to anyone who wants things to have different colors and the same shapes to either implement colorblind-friendly graphic modes or to use something similar to this palette.

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#32 2019-05-14 15:49:00

peace
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From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,849

Re: custom teams

cickles and squeres are easy to tellapart unless really small


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#33 2019-05-14 15:59:36

Raphe9000
Member
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,314

Re: custom teams

peace wrote:

cickles and squeres are easy to tellapart unless really small

You shouldn't have to tell them apart at all. It's not good game design. It makes things more complicated, causes different things to be more similar, and makes it where you need to put more thought into basic things. Someone who is colorblind will be naturally trained to tell things apart by subtler shades and shapes better than someone who doesn't need to rely on those facets of sight to tell something apart, so a good compromise is to change shapes of things that share the colorblind unfriendly colors to make it easier for everyone to tell what something is. If shape and color for something like teams change independently, the game would be harder for everyone. For people with bad eyesight, color is a big thing that helps them differentiate things. For someone who is colorblind, shape helps them differentiate things. For someone who has good eyesight and is not colorblind, they can rely on either or both to increase skill and speed (like speedrunning where players rely on their very fast detection and execution for random events).

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#34 2019-05-15 17:10:28

Koya
Fabulous Design Team
From: The island with those Brits
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 6,263

Re: custom teams

Raphe9000 wrote:
peace wrote:

cickles and squeres are easy to tellapart unless really small

You shouldn't have to tell them apart at all. It's not good game design. It makes things more complicated, causes different things to be more similar, and makes it where you need to put more thought into basic things. Someone who is colorblind will be naturally trained to tell things apart by subtler shades and shapes better than someone who doesn't need to rely on those facets of sight to tell something apart, so a good compromise is to change shapes of things that share the colorblind unfriendly colors to make it easier for everyone to tell what something is. If shape and color for something like teams change independently, the game would be harder for everyone. For people with bad eyesight, color is a big thing that helps them differentiate things. For someone who is colorblind, shape helps them differentiate things. For someone who has good eyesight and is not colorblind, they can rely on either or both to increase skill and speed (like speedrunning where players rely on their very fast detection and execution for random events).

• Normal mode - colours and circles
• Colourblind mode - modified colours and shapes
It wouldn't even affect normal mode it'd just be a setting which would change block and icon textures

Last edited by Koya (2019-05-15 17:11:00)


Po9cnQh.png

PLNQVL8.png
Thank you eleizibeth ^

1SYOldu.png

I stack my signatures rather than delete them so I don't lose them
giphy.gif

WfSi4mm.png

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#35 2019-05-15 20:36:44

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,849

Re: custom teams

Koya wrote:
Raphe9000 wrote:
peace wrote:

cickles and squeres are easy to tellapart unless really small

You shouldn't have to tell them apart at all. It's not good game design. It makes things more complicated, causes different things to be more similar, and makes it where you need to put more thought into basic things. Someone who is colorblind will be naturally trained to tell things apart by subtler shades and shapes better than someone who doesn't need to rely on those facets of sight to tell something apart, so a good compromise is to change shapes of things that share the colorblind unfriendly colors to make it easier for everyone to tell what something is. If shape and color for something like teams change independently, the game would be harder for everyone. For people with bad eyesight, color is a big thing that helps them differentiate things. For someone who is colorblind, shape helps them differentiate things. For someone who has good eyesight and is not colorblind, they can rely on either or both to increase skill and speed (like speedrunning where players rely on their very fast detection and execution for random events).

• Normal mode - colours and circles
• Colourblind mode - modified colours and shapes
It wouldn't even affect normal mode it'd just be a setting which would change block and icon textures

colorblidn mode is definelty somethign i would love to see if it doesnt mess wiht your coloring system


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a.pngty anatoly and nikko99 for a golden sig and blueclued for avatar and daneeko for pixelating my sign //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool3bluekeys.png

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