Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

Onjit · 2019-05-12 07:44:22

If devle is mafia, then he has a 8/9 chance of guessing that a player is town, and even if he got it wrong it's not like the SK would admit it

of course that's assuming that he wouldn't just claim on one of his teammates anyway

Kirby wrote:

****, game is **** over, anatoly just posted a PM of mafia chat. god damn it.

oof

i guess we should just have a blanket ban for anatoly on all future mafia games then - he's proven again and again that he can't be trusted

mrjawapa, Slabdrill

Kirby · 2019-05-12 07:50:26

nah, disregard my post. sorry about that anatoly - i saw you screenshot a quickchat and instantly assumed it was the maf chat. realized i was being dumb immediately but couldn't delete the post.

Are all of the roles used in this game? because if so, and if people legitimately suspect mutant is lying (i didn't consider how good those odds were tbh onjit) then the real cop should speak up maybe?

Kirby · 2019-05-12 07:53:19

note that i still do trust mutant's claim because it would be too risky of a lie imo but i feel like you guys (norboy and luka) are distrusting it for reasons that are completely unrelated (i still don't even know what "it's too convenient" even means)

Norwee · 2019-05-12 07:54:12

Is that the new mafia tactic now? We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?
Why on earth would that be necessary? Some conclusions can be made by simple logic alone. And there's no guarantee there's even a regular cop. Maybe there's a seer, maybe there's nothing.

Kirby · 2019-05-12 07:55:47

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Is that the new mafia tactic now? We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?
Why on earth would that be necessary? Some conclusions can be made by simple logic alone. And there's no guarantee there's even a regular cop. Maybe there's a seer, maybe there's nothing.

dude what are you on

your "simple logic" is distrusting literally any lead we have

mutantdevle

Onjit · 2019-05-12 07:57:54

Yeah I noticed the Anatoly post wasn't as bad as you said it was after I posted. I still think that posting ANYTHING from the private chats is a big no-no though.

Luka504 · 2019-05-12 07:58:31

What the **** Anatoly. This is precisely why you shouldn't play any more mafia games.

Kirby · 2019-05-12 08:00:30

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

And there's no guarantee there's even a regular cop. Maybe there's a seer, maybe there's nothing.

sorry for posting so much, everyone's gonna wake up to like 3 new pages lmao

I guess this is a possibility, but there are 10 roles and 13 users so i think it's pretty safe to say that all roles were used ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Luka504 · 2019-05-12 08:08:57

So wait, if Anatoly has access to the mafia chat, doesn't that mean he/zumza are mafia?
Or...

Norwee · 2019-05-12 08:10:42

No that's a screenshot from the graveyard chat Luka504. It even says it on the pictures. And it's Taskmanager talking, the guy we know is dead. So the picture actually reveals nothing.

TaskManager

Luka504 · 2019-05-12 08:11:06

Oh.

Kirby · 2019-05-12 08:11:18

ignore the anatoly stuff, he screenshotted the graveyard quickchat, not the mafia quickchat, so i don't think it confirms anything

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 09:54:44

This is honestly ridiculous.

I can understand being cautious of the claim. But instantly deducing it comes from mafia without a second thought or a look at the context surrounding the claim I just don't think comes from town motivation.

If we are to narrow this down to "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", and you're deciding to side with norweiganboy, then what you're saying is that you're siding with someone who blatantly lied about several points in their reads list. Someone who criticises certain players for one thing but gives others a free pass. And who thinks posting in cyan is just as trustworthy as having good points and trying to lynch scum. None of which he's decided to justify.

However, given that my claim was completely independent of my case against norweiganboy, this situation isn't as binary as "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", however, I currently believe that the votes against me are likely motivated by trying to defend norweiganboy rather than any actual criticism of me.

For those of you saying it's 'stupid' for me to be claiming cop without being under pressure, I only ask that you take a look at a previous game. 2B55B5G TNG expressed a desire to claim some information unprovoked. When he then did claim, a sort of butterfly effect occurred which lead to town winning the game. Furthermore, in a setup like this, if everyone claimed at the start of day 1 it would be almost impossible for town to lose. If everyone claimed, the mafia and SK would have to either claim they are a PR, which would then lead to a 1v1 fight between them and the real PR, or they'd have to claim vanilla townie. Once all the 1v1 fights are resolved, every power role is confirmed and the rest of the game can be spent lynching and shooting vanilla townies. If someone got lucky and claimed a role that's not in the game, that would become more and more obvious when the PRs are killed off at night. Meanwhile, there's potentially 2 investigative roles and a vig helping narrow the pool further whilst a potential doctor and roleblocker work to reduce the number of kills. Although it wouldn't be a guaranteed win, it greatly reduces the lynch pool and hence increases the chance that each lynch ends in a scum's death. This tactic is commonly known as 'massclaim' and has the power to break a lot of setups. Personally, I don't think that breaking setups would be particularly fun on a forum like this as I don't think we should be expecting amazing game-balance skills from anyone that hosts.

Finally, I'd like to ask the people voting me and/or sceptical of my claim what motivation they'd think I have in claiming cop? I told you my motivation. I realised that the mafia had a role cop and hence were incredibly likely to kill me tonight. I set up my crumb that Kirby was town quite nicely so I'm sure you'd have been able to figure out if I did get killed. However, when I claimed, I forgot about the mafia roleblocker. But in writing this right now I've again realised that if the mafia were ever going to keep me alive, of course they were going to roleblock me. So nothing's changed on that front except that now everyone knows my role rather than just the mafia and the chance I survive the night has increased.

What would I gain if I was mafia in this situation? Fake claiming cop is too risky. What if there was a counterclaim? "You'd expose the cop!" Okay, great, but now I'm dead and 2 people are confirmed as town. Perhaps the cop was even hiding a guilty and now 2 members of the mafia are as good as dead. And if this was an attempt to expose a power role, surely I'd claim seer? Y'know, the stronger version of the cop. Trading members of the mafia for a PR is not a tactical thing for the mafia to do. The only time mafia would ever fake claim is if they are being lynched as a last-ditch attempt to either live or expose a PR with their death.

Slabdrill

peace · 2019-05-12 10:04:12

wtf soo much posts i tired to read all also mutant why tf woudl you reveal youre cops and want the doc to protect you every night? isnt tha kinda dumb? alos why are you so imporatnat if there is a seer role aswell whic can invetigate and see the full orle of someone? (asumign all roles are used and left over players are just normal townies..) or are you mafia and want doctors protect? how can you be sure you got checke dlast night by mafia cop?

Norwee

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:21:08

Slabdrill wrote:

@mutantdevle: I'm a bit curious about that 86% figure (which is 6/7) as that post distinctly has SEVEN lines

Lol yeah. I meant 6/7 not 5/6.

mrjawapa wrote:

As scummy as this may sound, I'm a vanilla townie.

Wow Jawapa, you must be scum! It's unlike you to release information like that when you're not really under any pressure...

Onjit wrote:

Just a hunch tbh, but it seems like he's generally been more combative, trying to direct the flow of conversation, rather than actually trying to figure people out. also his claim seems to like up almost too conveniently

Could you provide examples of where I'm being more combative and trying to direct the flow of conversation?

Because I can provide examples of where I've been "actually trying to figure people out":

▼Hidden text

mutantdevle wrote:

So was I a suspect of yours when you voted for me initially? Because you said that it was just a random vote. Why are you trying to hide the reason that you're voting for me? Is it because you don't really have a reason?

Y'know Mr Anatoly, it seems that at the start of this day you decided that you wanted me dead. Did you come to that conclusion after reading your role PM? Why do you want me dead Mr Anatoly? Am I a threat to you? Because I think that you think I am. So is it paranoia that I might be evil? Or is it you who is the evil one? Because do you know what Mr Anatoly? I don't think you are mafia. No, you're nothing like your previous self that I got to know fairly well last game by being aligned with you. No, I don't think you're mafia at all. You seem to have purpose here. The things you have said, it's like you want to help. You're trying to. You have a reason to solve the game, you don't know everyone's alignment. But just because you're not mafia, doesn't mean you're not evil...

I wonder why you so freely told us that you didn't have a role. To make the investigatives not want to investigate you? To make the mafia not want to shoot at you? Tell me Mr Anatoly, are you a townie who is trying too hard to solve the game? The townie that wants to be seen as the hero? I have my doubts. Let me just ask you this, are you the https://i.imgur.com/NuGHuQ3.gif

Investigating Anatoly's motives.

mutantdevle wrote:

@peace, how do you know you were protected?
Were you told that you were attacked, and then saved by a doctor? Or were you just told that a doctor visited you?

Trying to figure out if peace's claim is legit under the suspicion that the real message he got was that he was "immune" to the attack.

mutantdevle wrote:

NorwegianboyEE wrote:
I kind of agree with Luka, we really need to start lynching someone if we hope to get any mafia at all. And we've got nothing to really focus on rather than Peace's weird revelation.
!Lynch Peace
Do you have any reason to lynch peace other than that you'd think it would be easy to do so?

Questioning norwegianboy's motive for wanting to lynch peace.

mutantdevle wrote:

2B55B5G TNG - his behaviour this game seems to contrast heavily against the previous one. He doesn't strike me as having nearly as much enthusiasm or desire to solve the game. In my opinion, he's a lot more cautious here. I don't think that's coming from a burnout. His hesitance makes me suspect that he is scum.

mutantdevle wrote:

2B55B5G TNG wrote:
I become more cautious because when I was town last game, I speak some random things which makes me become very suspicious. I don’t want to do the same mistake again.
I find this to be a weak defence considering you were one of the most trustworthy people last game. I don't think you were ever accused of being mafia by anyone. You were only accused of being loaf by a select few people. Considering that, I don't understand why you'd switch up your playstyle. But thanks for admitting that you have consciously changed your approach to the way you are playing this game. That cements to me that either A) You are mafia (or, less likely, SK) or B) You majorly misinterpreted people's criticisms of you last game.

I'm clearly putting pressure on 2B55 here in an effort to get him to talk with the purpose of trying to figure out how conscious he is of his change of play and whether or not it's motivated by experience or a change in alignment.

I want this one outside the spoiler because I think it's further proof of my cop inno on Kirby:
(In general, I think you should isolate me and do a CTRL+F search for Kirby. I think it's very obvious that I'm a cop with an inno on him).

mutantdevle wrote:

mrjawapa wrote:
Y'know what? Kirby, I'm tired of your negativity.
You are bringing the moral down in this town, and I can't take it.
!vote kirby
What kind of a **** reason is that? lol. I do hope that I'm not ironically missing a **** post here.

This comment was designed to see how jawapa would respond to having his reason for voting Kirby being called ****.

What have you done to try and figure people out Onjit? When I isolate your posts I see you forming opinions but I don't see you asking many questions to try and get them.

I'd also like you to elaborate on why you think my claim is 'convenient'?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:30:51

Different55 wrote:

Uhh no thoughts currently on this bandwagon, want to do some more reading. But as I was reading through, devle, you mentioned the possibility that SK went after peace? I thought the SK was unstoppable at night. They may not kill the intended target but they will kill *someone*, right? Whoever tries to protect the intended target at least.

The doctor can stop a SK I'm pretty sure. Just a role blocker can't.

Luka504 wrote:

This would only be correct if peace was attacked last night, however, he stated numerous times that he hasn't been attacked, only protected by the doctor.

peace said that the message only tells him that he was protected. It doesn't specify one way or another if he was attacked. However, I suspect that he wouldn't be told that the doctor visited him if he wasn't attacked. Either way, we will probably have the answer tomorrow. If there are 2 kills and no one claims being protected by the doctor then we'll know that he 100% was attacked.

Luka504 wrote:

but Devlin is so far suspicious to me. For most of the game, I felt like there was something off with Devlin's behaviour. Sure, he still had his rather prideful mindset of "I'm amazing at mafia" and junk, but I felt like it wasn't the same.
He seems a lot more aggressive, Imo. Especially when he posted a picture of Norwegianboy literally digging his own grave, stating "it's time for you to die"
I would understand if you were a cop and got a guilty result on him, but by your own admission, you haven't. So what's with you this game?

So let me get this straight. You're comparing my behaviour in this game to my behaviour in the previous one and noticing that there is a difference? I mean, you realise I was mafia in the previous game right? If you're noticing a difference, it's because my alignment has changed.

Different55, Slabdrill

Norwee · 2019-05-12 10:37:15

Mutantdevle wrote:

If we are to narrow this down to "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", and you're deciding to side with norweiganboy, then what you're saying is that you're siding with someone who blatantly lied about several points in their reads list. Someone who criticises certain players for one thing but gives others a free pass. And who thinks posting in cyan is just as trustworthy as having good points and trying to lynch scum. None of which he's decided to justify.
However, given that my claim was completely independent of my case against norweiganboy, this situation isn't as binary as "mutantdevle vs norweiganboy", however, I currently believe that the votes against me are likely motivated by trying to defend norweiganboy rather than any actual criticism of me.

Let me justify the cyan claim. It was a J O K E. I had no real reason to either suspect or promote IlikeTofuuJoe's innocence. Are we done with that silly point now?

I also see you have toned down your language considerably. I suppose your shocking display of aggression didn't work out the way you had hoped? You know, when you said "It's time for you to die"? How can you claim this isn't anything personal when you so desperately wanted to see me die? Why is that? Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 10:42:37

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Who says "it’s time for you to die" with the picture of a gravestone and expects to be seen as the good guy?

Have you never heard of humour?

Also, who blatantly lies in their reads list and expects to be seen as the good guy?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

If i die in the next night, or get lynched. It will only prove my point. In fact, i welcome death at this point.

I'm down for this.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Also in Mutant’s quote pyramid you can see this quote:
[“Your whole reads list here just smells of **** and make it obvious to me that you don’t believe any of this.]
That sounds like some serious attempt at discrediting me.

Dude, you deserve to be discredited. You lied several times. Why aren't you addressing that? Your entire scum read on diff was that he was wooting lots of my posts yet he never even wooted 1.
Furthermore, you criticised people for something that others also did yet seemingly gave those others a free pass on it. Do you have nothing to say about that?
And finally, you haven't justified why you think someone you're "unsure of" and posts in cyan has the same suspicion level as both Luka and Onjit who you described as actively trying to solve the game and trustworthy.

Your reads list doesn't make any sense. Barely anything rings true about it. It honestly seems like you just made half of it up and that could only come from mafia who struggle to feign reads.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Did i hit the bullseye?

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

These are the signs of a mafia member, using intimidation technique to have things go his way. Why did he react so strongly to my sternly worded criticism? I believe it is in fact because he is very afraid that we might lynch him and reveal his accomplices.

I'm not so sure you actually know what the 'signs of a mafia member' are. Aggression is not exclusively a scum trait. Your 'sternly worded criticism' consisted of lies. You've yet to justify them.

And if we are talking about 'signs of a mafia member', do you maybe wanna explain why you are hyperbolic in how you represent things that I have said? Eg. "he's demanding the doctor protects him" when all I did was ask if they could?

Zumza · 2019-05-12 11:00:53

This doesn't seem as a 1 town, 1 scum scenario to me.

Luka504 · 2019-05-12 11:03:12

Devlin dude you write so much that it's extremely difficult to keep track of everything.

mutantdevle, 2b55b5g, Norwee, TaskManager, Onjit, mrjawapa, Slabdrill

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:04:24

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

Let me justify the cyan claim. It was a J O K E. I had no real reason to either suspect or promote IlikeTofuuJoe's innocence. Are we done with that silly point now?

I don't genuinely believe you think posting in cyan makes someone town. My main issue is that you gave him the same suspicion level as 2 people that you had nothing but compliments for when your other point about him was that you're unsure. If you said that you think he's really towny AND he posts in cyan, there'd be no issue. But you put him, a null, on the same level as people you thought were null. Or was his position on your reads list a joke too? Because if so, I don't know why you expect anyone to give any form of credit to your reads.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

I also see you have toned down your language considerably. I suppose your shocking display of aggression didn't work out the way you had hoped? You know, when you said "It's time for you to die"? How can you claim this isn't anything personal when you so desperately wanted to see me die? Why is that? Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?

As far as I'm concerned, I haven't 'toned down' anything. There's nothing personal to this at all. I think you're mafia because your reads look fake and I want you dead for it. It's as simple as that. I gave you the opportunity to justify your reads or correct any mistakes you may have made when writing it, but instead, as soon as you saw my cop claim you decided to go full lynch mode on me and ever since then you've gone full out against me. Nothing I can say to you will ever be right because your only purpose now is to fight me. And to be fair, I also think you're irredeemable at this stage. You could surprise me, but I doubt it.

Also, what do you mean by "Are you trying to manipulate the conversation so you can regain the initiative?"? It just looks like you've thrown words together to essentially just say "I think you're bad".

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:05:10

Luka504 wrote:

Devlin dude you write so much that it's extremely difficult to keep track of everything.

I just have a lot to say :/

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:07:27

Oops, I forgot to include like half my post with post #372:

Onjit wrote:

If devle is mafia, then he has a 8/9 chance of guessing that a player is town, and even if he got it wrong it's not like the SK would admit it

Also a high chance that I would be counterclaimed, one of the cops is then lynched revealing the identity of the other. If the mafia is lynched, they gain nothing. If the town is lynched, congrats you've killed the cop. But now we know who the mafia is so the mafia dies too. And in the process, the real cop has either exposed a 2nd mafia or had someone confirmed as town. Trading a mafia life for the death of a PR is not worth the trade unless the mafia member was already likely going to die.

NorwegianboyEE wrote:

We realize we messed up so we want the cop to reveal himself so we can kill him later?

In what way did I 'mess' up? There was no threat to me whatsoever when I claimed. And again, fake claiming cop to get the real cop to expose themself is trading a mafia life for a PR which is stupid and not worth it.

And why the hell, if my motivation was to expose a PR, would I not instead fake claim as the seer? Your arguments fall apart way too easily.

peace wrote:

wtf soo much posts i tired to read all also mutant why tf woudl you reveal youre cops and want the doc to protect you every night? isnt tha kinda dumb?

It's not dumb. The cop claiming and having a doctor protect them the entire time is an effective strategy. This is known as 'follow the cop': https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti … ow_the_Cop

"The Cop claims immediately, and the Town votes No Lynch while the Doctor stays hidden. The Cop will get a result overnight, the hidden Doctor will protect the Cop, and the Mafia is powerless to stop it without first finding and killing the Doctor at Night. The Town will continue to No Lynch unless the Cop comes forward with a guilty result, which will then be lynched. However, by the time the Doctor is killed by the Mafia the Town should have enough reads from the Cop to finish the rest of the game via process of elimination."

I'm not expecting us to do that fully, but the premise of the doctor protecting exclusively the cop (or seer since they are stronger than the cop) is far from stupid.

peace wrote:

alos why are you so imporatnat if there is a seer role aswell whic can invetigate and see the full orle of someone? (asumign all roles are used and left over players are just normal townies..) or are you mafia and want doctors protect? how can you be sure you got checke dlast night by mafia cop?

Theoretically, I'm not more important than anyone else. In fact, from a mechanical point of view, the seer is definitely more important than I am and if they ever claim then I'd fully expect the doctor to be protecting them instead of me. I suspect that I was checked last night because, since I'm quite experienced in playing mafia and tend to be incredibly vocal, a lot of people want me dead. If the mafia didn't try to kill me, I think it's because they assumed I'd be protected. They also didn't roleblock me and I find it unlikely that they wouldn't target me with anything.

Sorry for all the walls of text, I just like to answer every point or question directed towards me.

2b55b5g · 2019-05-12 11:16:58

What’s the difference between a classic cop and a seer? There are no roles in this game that can ‘fool’ the classic cop.” when a classic cop check a person’s alignment.

Different55

mutantdevle · 2019-05-12 11:18:50

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

What’s the difference between a classic cop and a seer? There are no roles in this game that can ‘fool’ the classic cop.” when a classic cop check a person’s alignment.

Seer is just a role cop. They get the role card of a player which includes their role and alignment.

This is all the roles that could be in this game: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jVA … th9uQ/edit

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#351 2019-05-12 07:44:22

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

#352 2019-05-12 07:50:26

Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

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Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

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Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

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Re: Mafia 24 [Crybaby wins]

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