Hi, I'm Cercul1

SirJosh3917 · 2019-01-26 23:52:10

mutantdevle wrote:

...

i apologize if i come off as hostile

i just wanna know what he's done since i don't (and i'm sure quite a handful of people) don't know who the guy is or what he's done

mikelolsuperman · 2019-01-27 02:35:37

peace wrote:

TaskManager wrote:
peace wrote:
capasha wrote:
Using your old password that got leaked 2015 isn't maybe the best thing?
can we please not make a new drama here wih a password that gotleaked you oculvde better pmed him that he needed ot chnage his pass instead of loggin in his acc
ummm wtf
the post was deleted?
even if it was some people might sitll have the passord

They would still know the password without the post since the post didn't contain the password. If the post contained the password it would be bad but now it's just 'You still use the password that was leaked in 2015 so if anyone still remembers it from 4 years ago they can just get in your account' it wasn't 'Hey look his password got leaked and I remember it it's yourmom123'

XxAtillaxX · 2019-01-27 08:08:47

mikelolsuperman wrote:

yourmom123

hey stop sharing my password

2b55b5g, Pqwerty, coinage, Gabriellfs, cercul1

Zumza · 2019-01-27 09:32:50

@mutantdevle

ByteArray was fairly new, yet they inspired trust quick through what they were doing. Compare ByteArray's / Gosha or even Luke's staff announcements topics to this one and you can clearly see a difference in reactions.

I also do believe that parts of this wave of criticism are based on the assumption that cercul1 is trying to put themselves on a good light, by lying/exaggerating their experience.

The fact that cercul1 is not known has nothing to do with this discontent. It is the fact that they are known quite well, but they are known for negative things.

It is a fair assumption that if they neglect to protect something little as their password, they might neglect other things, that can cause much more trouble. I don't think people are sufficiently aware how much harm capasha would had been capable of doing, if they desired, through cercul1 account to EE and to them personally.

I find pertinent the argument related to trust allows trust in criticism, but there might be a doubt that cercul1's will use that.

Yu · 2019-01-27 10:22:02

Hi Sir Sool 1
Idk i always called u that

Pqwerty, cercul1

peace · 2019-01-27 10:57:50

Yu wrote:

Hi Sir Sool 1
Idk i always called u that

he doesnt get time to show hsi work give him time

Anch

mutantdevle · 2019-01-27 13:45:30

Zumza wrote:

ByteArray was fairly new, yet they inspired trust quick through what they were doing. Compare ByteArray's / Gosha or even Luke's staff announcements topics to this one and you can clearly see a difference in reactions.

I recall the reaction to ByteArray being a little bit "who this?" but no one was outright rejecting his presence. I don't get what point you're trying to make here because the difference in reactions is exactly the problem. Cercul is being rejected on the basis that most people don't know him which is counterproductive in getting to know him.

Zumza wrote:

I also do believe that parts of this wave of criticism are based on the assumption that cercul1 is trying to put themselves on a good light, by lying/exaggerating their experience.

People are assuming he is lying, but on what basis? Because they don't know him? Saying he has 7 years of experience is not lying just because it's not 7 years of professional experience.

Zumza wrote:

The fact that cercul1 is not known has nothing to do with this discontent. It is the fact that they are known quite well, but they are known for negative things.

What you really mean by this is, nobody knew him, but when you decided to look him up on the internet you couldn't find anything (why would you?) and that his previous posts on the forums were quite nooby (something he points out himself).

Zumza wrote:

It is a fair assumption that if they neglect to protect something little as their password, they might neglect other things, that can cause much more trouble. I don't think people are sufficiently aware how much harm capasha would had been capable of doing, if they desired, through cercul1 account to EE and to them personally.

I don't know the details of how their password got exposed, but it happened several years ago so there are several factors at play here. He could have forgotten it happened, maybe he wasn't even around when it did? Maybe he just uses the same password for pretty much everything like most people do. Sure, you could say that neglecting the small things means he is more likely to neglect the bigger more important things. But I could just as easily say that maybe he neglects the small things due to spending all his time on things that are far bigger and more important. Though of course it is optimal that he'd care about both.

Zumza wrote:

I find pertinent the argument related to trust allows trust in criticism, but there might be a doubt that cercul1's will use that.

Yet again you are criticising him on an assumption that has no basis. How could you possibly know if he is willing to provide feedback?

Raphe9000

Zumza · 2019-01-27 14:48:57

There's nothing to be argued, I don't want to develop on what ifs, even thoughts, they might, and they will.

In my previous post I merely pointed some shared objective observations.

Parts of the community don't trust them, and they have reasons not to. Invoking years of programming experience, and yet proving the complete opposite is flimsy.

It's not like the noob questions are in a distant past.
Just go now on the Programming section, and within the most recent topics you will find cercul1.

Getting another example, two months ago, cercul1 needed help again with a banal issue, and yet they blame it on their lack of EE-experience, which is clearly not the case. That question could hardly come from a person who understands basics of how network sockets work, knows to debug, or at least has a minimum patience of trying to see what they've done wrong.

mutantdevle · 2019-01-27 16:17:07

They're not the best programmer in the world. They lack knowledge in certain areas. So what? Everything he needs to know in order to do his job he will learn. He's been hired because both he and Xeno think that it's unlikely that there will be any arguments or drama between them. I'd much rather someone with a lot to learn be on the team than someone who is more knowledgable but doesn't get anything done because they don't get on with the person telling them what they need to do. You probably disagree with those reasons to be hired, but actively being unwelcoming and overly critical of someone for that reason is just unnecessary and mean spirited. He knows he's not the best programmer on this forum. He's openly said that. But you don't need to treat him as an outcast just because you don't like Xeno and want to use every decision he makes as a way to criticise him.

I looked at his 2 posts on the first page in the programming section and I don't see what problem you have with them. One issue he figured out himself, and the other is most definitely an EE related thing. And what they both show me is that his attitude is far improved from his posting a few years ago. Would you rather he just not ask for help when he needs it?

Raphe9000

Raphe9000 · 2019-01-27 16:40:11

To me, this whole thing feels like an ego issue.

"There's a chance he won't be a good developer, so I want to tell everyone how bad he is and how I hate the fact he is a developer to give myself a possible chance to say, 'I told you so,' later!"

You don't need or deserve to have your unimportant suspicions answered until it relates to the health of the game, and I'm 99% sure cercul can't really harm the game in anyway no matter how well he programs. It certainly does not warrant unneeded toxicity and constant pressure.

Zumza · 2019-01-27 17:01:40

Raphe9000 wrote:

"give myself a possible chance to say, 'I told you so,' later!"
I'm 99% sure cercul can't really harm the game in anyway no matter how well he programs.

Shouldn't we bring awareness to a potential danger in order to avoid it?

mutantdevle wrote:

Would you rather he just not ask for help when he needs it?

I would rather have them have a minimum patience of trying to see what they've done wrong, before asking others for help.
If time is a priority, which I believe it is, it makes much more sense having someone with experience related to EE. After all they are supposed to work on the EE client.
If they have the same behaviour as they do on the forums, the time would be redirected to having them explained and helped for trifle problems.

mutantdevle wrote:

[than someone who] doesn't get anything done because they don't get on with the person telling them what they need to do

I don't recall having an antecedent on having someone on the staff and refusing to code what they were asked to.

I believe it is regretful that all this is spilled over cercul1, and I am sorry for that. But it is also regretful that people are spending thousands of dollars on series of doubtful decisions.

mutantdevle · 2019-01-27 17:20:20

Zumza wrote:

Shouldn't we bring awareness to a potential danger in order to avoid it?

But there is no danger here? He's not going to go around deleting everyone else's code...

Zumza wrote:

I would rather have them have a minimum patience of trying to see what they've done wrong, before asking others for help.

What makes you think he doesn't try to solve things himself first? I'd say that his most recent thread in the programming forum would suggest that he does. I don't think that many people immediately ask for help before attempting to solve it themselves and when they do it'd usually because they are still in the planning stage and want to get a grasp of how others have addressed an issue that they plan to.

Zumza wrote:

it makes much more sense having someone with experience related to EE.

Of course it does. But the problem is that experience and skill level are not the only factors that make someone right for a role. In this scenario, they also need to be able to work well with and be trusted by Xenon. Besides, this will be EE related experience for Cercul. He's going to learn a lot of things and become a better programmer for the future. Realistically, it doesn't take long to simply address a problem that Cercul may run in to. But then once he's learnt it, he can become just as fluent at writing code as every other person on the team. I'm sure that Cercul is capable of creating an offline version for EE in the time it takes for EEU to be released and the transition period to expire. If anything, him being hired for this specific purpose means that everyone else can get on with what they are doing.

Zumza wrote:

I don't recall having an antecedent on having someone on the staff and refusing to code what they were asked to.

No, but arguments would delay things. It's heavily important to be able to get on well with your colleagues and have similar ideas on what you want the end product to be.

Raphe9000

SirJosh3917 · 2019-01-27 17:25:28

wew what a fire

i just wanna see the cool stuff he's done, josh doesn't doubt him

mutantdevle, rat

Raphe9000 · 2019-01-27 17:31:00

Zumza wrote:

Shouldn't we bring awareness to a potential danger in order to avoid it?

If he's a potential danger, either everything is or you need to reevaluate what is dangerous. I think you've brought enough 'awareness' already anyway...

Zumza wrote:

If time is a priority, which I believe it is, it makes much more sense having someone with experience related to EE. After all they are supposed to work on the EE client.

Then go find someone. I'm pretty sure most people who do fit under one of the following:
Don't have the time
Don't like Xenonetix or agree with what he's doing
Aren't gonna wanna be a real developer for the game

Stop acting like he's some cancer to the community. The worst that can happen is he's a bit slow or doesn't know 100% of what he's doing. Let him prove himself first before jumping to these conclusions. You're not Xeno, and you're not helping anyone right now.

Zumza wrote:

I believe it is regretful that all this is spilled over cercul1, and I am sorry for that. But it is also regretful that people are spending thousands of dollars on series of doubtful decisions.

Then maybe don't be one of those people. Make your opinion known too. Just don't attack the person who doesn't deserve any of this. Maybe make a topic in debates or something. This is a thread of cercul's introduction into staff, and his attempt to make himself known has just resulted in backlash. It's quite a shame if you ask me. If I were Cercul, I've be very demotivated right now. I know I'm not the a candidate to become staff and therefore I can't necessarily speak for their positions or how professional they should be, even if I've been in similar positions before, but I can say anyone, 'professional' staff or not, would be affected by this. I'm hoping Cercul can see this as a chance to prove you guys wrong and excel, but how can that be easy when everything directed toward anything he does is looked at under a microscope with the sole intention of finding flaws whilst ignoring everything else? Just lighten up a bit, will ya? Doubt is fine. You expressing your opinions is fine and healthy for the community since we get to see more than one viewpoint. This has just gone too far.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

i just wanna see the cool stuff he's done, josh doesn't doubt him

That's fine and not something that makes your wrong in the slightest; just wait a bit. It's at his discretion to share more details about himself, and he probably shouldn't do it right now considering all the backlash he's gotten for practically nothing.

Tomahawk · 2019-01-27 17:35:45

Let's wait and see what happens. Raising those pitchforks too early makes the witchhunt less effective later on.

Also:

Digging up threads from 3 years ago is stupid - people change a lot in that time;
Cercul shouldn't be blamed if Xeno hired a yes-man, and certainly not hated on simply for being a "replacement";
Having a weak EE pass is entirely unrelated to his potential skill as a dev;
We know far too little about Cercul to judge him either way. This community likes to jump to extreme conclusions from tiny pieces of questionable evidence.

Raphe9000, RailMat, SirJosh3917, mutantdevle, Xenonetix, mrjawapa, peace, LukeM, Master1, mikelolsuperman, 2b55b5g, Gabriellfs, PTU, MartenM

Raphe9000 · 2019-01-27 17:38:13

Tomahawk wrote:

We know far too little about Cercul to judge him either way. This community likes to jump to extreme conclusions from tiny pieces of questionable evidence.

This. I don't know if he'll be good, and I'm not gonna say he is when I don't know. That being said, he deserves welcome and encouragement just like everyone else does. That will help ensure the best case scenario.

SirJosh3917

capasha · 2019-01-27 17:47:51

I'm so tired at the people that thinks programming ee bots would be different than programming other things.
All you need is to know how to program and also have a look at the EE protocol which help much better.

I know a bit about programming and yes, I have made bots to others games and other stuff too.

When I want to make bots for other games or whatever I always search through the game or sniffing packets. Then I can from that build my own tool.
This have to do with programming, you need to know how to program to do this. You also need some computer science too.

To be a programmer for a game or anything, you need to show what you have coded and what you can. If not, none would want you as developer for the team or whatever that wants to hire you.
I have been at freelancer so many times. And they want to see your progress before paying you. This is the same for getting hired.

Anyway, he doesn't need to show what he have programmed to the public.

Tomahawk wrote:

Let's wait and see what happens. Raising those pitchforks too early makes the witchhunt less effective later on.
Also:
Having a weak EE pass is entirely unrelated to his potential skill as a dev;

I never said it was a developer skill. This should already bee in computer science.

I'm currently in computer science

And no it wasn't a password only for EE.

Zumza

Zumza · 2019-01-27 18:02:22

mutantdevle, you keep invoking in your arguments that "they will", "they probably had", and possibilities, while I bring concrete things that happened, and actually have an experience of what are the traits of beginner programmers.

Also who expressed divergences with how the end product should be? You keep mixing up different things. Xeno's vision towards the future of the game and Xeno's vision on management are two separate things.

mrjawapa · 2019-01-27 18:53:54

jesus christ, y'all are ridiculous.

Gosha, rat, pwnzor

mutantdevle · 2019-01-27 19:08:20

Zumza wrote:

mutantdevle, you keep invoking in your arguments that "they will", "they probably had", and possibilities, while I bring concrete things that happened, and actually have an experience of what are the traits of beginner programmers.
Also who expressed divergences with how the end product should be? You keep mixing up different things. Xeno's vision towards the future of the game and Xeno's vision on management are two separate things.

At least half of your criticisms of him have been assumptions so this is very hypocritical of you to say.

The 'probably hads' I've mentioned were me countering your own assumptions with mine to prove how assumptions are not reliable in judgement. As for the 'they wills', is it not logical to conclude that Cercul will be learning things and then using that to expand his knowledge? Like you can't seriously be suggesting his skill level is going to remain static. As for you 'actually having experience', you think I don't? I'm currently studying games development in college. I'd consider myself a beginner programmer. Your skill level in programming is certainly more advanced than mine but I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to the process of learning it. Every single time I sit down and create something in C# I learn something new. And you know what, sometimes I do have to just ask others how to do something because I was unable to do it myself. But once you've achieved your goal and your code works, you've learnt something in the process and you become much more fluent in it. So sorry, but your attempts to devalue my point of view have failed and I find it kinda scummy that you tried to do so.

And I'm not mixing anything up. Trust works both ways. Just as Xeno trusts in Cercul to deliver a common vision for the game Cercul trusts Xeno's methods of doing so. You can label that as another 'probably' if you want, but I think it's very clear from what both Curcul and Xeno have said that this is the case and a major factor in why he was hired.

Zumza · 2019-01-27 20:16:10

It is simply feeble to discuss this. I only shared my point of view, and I am honestly sorry I discredited circle1 to the point I did. I intended to prove the decision was a weakness, and the reasons to sustain it are mostly illegitimately from a professional point of view. It is Xeno's ultimate decision if they decide to put personal peacefulness above all, which isn't something condemnable considering the all in all situation. I hope however, they will overcome themselves at some point in this journey.

Circle1 please don't put to the heart the drama.

mutantdevle, skullz17

Kira · 2019-01-27 21:25:53

Why does every single ee drama topics turn into an infection of nonsense.

Let the guy prove his worth and move on.

RailMat, Master1, peace, mikelolsuperman, rat, 2b55b5g, PTU, pwnzor

peace · 2019-01-28 07:45:09

^ this i mean ceno adds 2 staff a second (im not liyng) later drama start before they even can proove his worth in an ee update or in an report handling orso

Security-Drone · 2019-01-28 08:01:14

Don't worry cercul1 you already introduced yourself

No one'll forget.

Zumza, pwnzor

IanJanes · 2019-01-28 17:49:51

As much as I enjoy having new devs, and people who want to help; why the hell are new staff always people no one knows? Why can't we have trusted community members people actually know, not just best friends of the current staff. I think someone once said it's just cool power for friends, it feels good having control over other people doesn't it? This seems so be an annoying loop with each new wave of staff, just friends of the current circle.
-Thanks, Ian

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#51 2019-01-26 23:52:10

Re: Hi, I'm Cercul1

#52 2019-01-27 02:35:37

Re: Hi, I'm Cercul1

#53 2019-01-27 08:08:47

Re: Hi, I'm Cercul1

#54 2019-01-27 09:32:50, last edited by Zumza (2019-01-27 09:34:46)

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#56 2019-01-27 10:57:50

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#57 2019-01-27 13:45:30

Re: Hi, I'm Cercul1

#58 2019-01-27 14:48:57, last edited by Zumza (2019-01-27 14:54:55)

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#59 2019-01-27 16:17:07

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#60 2019-01-27 16:40:11, last edited by Raphe9000 (2019-01-27 16:40:50)

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#61 2019-01-27 17:01:40, last edited by Zumza (2019-01-27 17:02:48)

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#68 2019-01-27 18:02:22

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#69 2019-01-27 18:53:54

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#71 2019-01-27 20:16:10

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#72 2019-01-27 21:25:53

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#73 2019-01-28 07:45:09

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#74 2019-01-28 08:01:14

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#75 2019-01-28 17:49:51, last edited by IanJanes (2019-01-28 17:55:31)

Re: Hi, I'm Cercul1

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