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#126 2019-01-11 13:56:15

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: China
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 614

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

When you’re in a campaign world called ‘This is not snow’, idk if you were joking but you sent a broadcast message like *LALA la la la, before that you also sent some broadcast message like *SYSTEM Turewjyg bmbm (I actually forgot what you said but it’s something like that)


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#127 2019-01-11 14:01:44

Gosha
Member
From: Russia
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 5,622

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

When you’re in a campaign world called ‘This is not snow’, idk if you were joking but you sent a broadcast message like *LALA la la la, before that you also sent some broadcast message like *SYSTEM Turewjyg bmbm (I actually forgot what you said but it’s something like that)

The context and the actual messages are important,  I don't recall doing that and how you described it looks like I was just spamming nonsense. Even if I was doing that for some reason, it was /systemsay

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#128 2019-01-11 14:06:14

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: China
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 614

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Yea you were spamming non-sense


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#129 2019-01-11 14:45:52

frostflare
Member
Joined: 2016-05-23
Posts: 29

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

To call out someone over the fact you feel they aren't suitable to do their job, isn't your place. Also it seems like your friend took your cause a bit too literally. This is the problem in general about taking action into your own hands. Not only do your actions effect you, but everyone else around you. But just be careful in the future about who you confide to because obviously they didn't care about the position they put you in.

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#130 2019-01-11 15:06:48

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,178

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

can this drama stop as it already ahppened and cant be chnaged?


cZXKA3f.pngMYaIIs9.png
a.pngty anatoly and nikko99 for a golden sig and blueclued for avatar and daneeko for pixelating my sign //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/cool

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#131 2019-01-11 15:09:01

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: China
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 614

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Says the one who kept argueing https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/images/8/8a/008_wink

peace wrote:

can this drama stop as it already ahppened and cant be chnaged?


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#132 2019-01-11 17:44:52

John
Member
Joined: 2019-01-11
Posts: 1,774

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Hi

I see some fake news here so I wanted to explain stuff from my point of view as I was in the world where the broadcast message was abused.

Gosha wrote:

[...] the raid started and everyone assumed it was me. [...] I kept getting unbanned and somebody was abusing "broadcast" message. I really didn't like it because people were losing the trust to me ( I even pointed out in discord that it may be xenonetix doing this to blame it on me, it would be a smart move since either way they don't have proofs that it was me, but it's probably not true). [...]

That's a boatload of bogus because each time BEFORE you gave everybody admin mode, you said something along the lines of "rise my friends" or "rise up" or something like that. How dare you blatantly lie about something like this. Others in the room can attest that you were doing this.

Gosha wrote:

Then xenonetix broke my account (yes,  broke. Essentially changing email,  password and the name of the playerobject breaks the account without any way to fix it rather than putting everything back together) the information about the account is still there, but the access is blocked and the data itself is hidden. So it is a natural assumption that xenonetix deleted my account. I told that in discord and atilla revealed himself by publicly deleting xenonetix account. Xenonetix's account was backed up and the backup was provided by atills back the staff, so they can easily put everything back together. Meanwhile my account is still broken from xenonetix's actions and seems like no one is trying to change anything about it.

He didn't ""break"" your account, he prevented you from gaining unauthorized access to the game because you kept evading your ban. Even if you claim "oh noes it wasn't me" you still continued to join worlds and give people admin mode. That's your fault. That was good that he changed your email and password, and renamed your PlayerObject because you kept missing with the game, as indicated above.

Gosha wrote:

I want to remind you that I haven't hacked any of ee property. I don't have access to ee servers or any of its databases. And certainly no access to admin commands / admin alts. Also I don't have any idea what exploit in ee atilla uses. [...]

Even if we assume you're telling the truth about not unbanning yourself, you still continued to access EE and join worlds when you weren't supposed to. You had to know you were banned. It's like if someone else leaves a door open to a server room and if you walk in and mess around that means that you were still hacking.

Sorry for reviving this thread but the lies contained in this post kind of **** me off.

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#133 2019-01-11 17:54:09

Raphe9000
Member
From: OGLE-2017-BLG-0560
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,069

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Luka504 wrote:

Is this your new tactic to get Gosha to rat himself out?
"Hey Gosha if you didn't raid the game, you have to pay us a lot of money" That directly incentivizes Gosha to "confess" to raiding just so he doesn't pay the fine. How **** despicable of you Xeno. You're so desperate to pin the blame on Gosha you're practically blackmailing him to confess.

Ya, this is like big no-no #1 of management.

Gosha wrote:

But when the raid that somebody (presumably atilla, but he claims it wasn't him) started, I kept getting unbanned and somebody was abusing "broadcast" message.

To be fair, the first rule of making it look like someone else is doing something is to give them all the visible power whilst you have the real power. Xeno is making it look like it has to be you because you kept being unbanned, but anyone who wanted to remain hidden would use someone like you to put the blame onto.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here, but just pointing this out I feel is fair to do.

Last edited by Raphe9000 (2019-01-11 17:54:35)

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#134 2019-01-11 22:30:27

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,688
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Sorry, there are more walls of text than I have time to read, so I might have missed something, but I should probably respond to some things:

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

Atilla claims it depends on your definition of deletion, but by no definition was Gosha's deleted, and, by every definition, mine was deleted by Atilla. Just because he created a "backup" does not excuse him from deleting the account.

I didn't delete your account by the same definition you used. It is fully recoverable and you have the means to do so. You effectively created a backup, and if creating a backup does not excuse you from 'deleting' Gosha's account, then what does?

Well, no.
I originally understood it as Gosha's PlayerObject being moved to a different ID, but seems he only changed his in-game name.
In this case, nothing was even moved, literally the only thing that happened was Xeno preventing him from logging in.
There is no way anyone in their right mind would call this deleting something... If you're going to call this deleting something then you'd also be calling every account that has ever been banned 'deleted' //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

What atilla did however was similar to converting a word document to a PDF. All the data is recoverable, just it takes a non-trivial amount of work.

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

but not realising that it would break linked accounts.

If you were recommended by many developers to change shared secrets, then why weren't you informed that linked accounts would be affected?

I informed him at the time that its possible that it could affect linked accounts (depending on how the linked account server code worked, which we didn't have access to), and we did investigate it briefly but the evidence seemed to point towards that not being the case (the first two people we asked had very specific conditions that caused their accounts to respond differently to others, one was not linked but was broken and the other linked but not broken), so being short on time due to you basically holding the game hostage >:(, we understandably didn't persue it any further until we had more evidence to suggest linked accounts were the problem.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

The statement that was repeated by Luke was that the exploit had little to do with the reason that the linked accounts were disabled, and he denies that it was intentional. You admitted just now that it was. I suppose Luke was lying.

Please stop misquoting me, this is what I said:

LukeM wrote:

Yes the problems are related to everything thats been happening, no its not because a connection type has been deleted or anything stupid //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

(in response to the claim)

XxAtillaxX wrote:

The issue was caused by the owner being unable to complete a code audit and instead deleting connection types arbitrarily, including the one for linked accounts.

As far as I know, no connection type was ever deleted, and nothing 'stupid' was done, so I stand by everything I said.

An authentication key was changed for perfectly valid reasons (which would have been the correct thing to do even if we did know for certain that it would break linked accounts), which is very different to the "Xeno was haphazardly deleting things from the PlayerIO backend" story you were suggesting.

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

there's no easy way to restore the account other than manually adding the majority of the information

It is very easy to make a tool to do so, but I suppose Luke is lying about that too.

Just to clarify, I'm going to do it programatically over the weekend, its just a non-trivial thing to do and would take more time than I had to spare at the time.

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

Considering it was server-based code (I think), if Gosha revealed that code to anyone, that would be a breach of the Non-Disclosure Agreement he signed

I don't think 10 lines of code is a huge deal, especially considering it's a broadcast message, which anyone could understand and replicate with zero effort, knowledge or skill.

I think it's a weak reason and attempt to attack him, as was the goal from the start.

You're missing the point, nobody would have even known it was there if Gosha didn't release the information, even if the code itself wasn't complex it allowed the raid to happen.
The problem we have isn't "it was difficult code to write, we don't want people stealing our work", its "the information can (and was) used to cause significant disruption to the game"

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Xenonetix wrote:

Gosha is either guilty of the raiding, or guilty of sharing the code (or at least revealing how the code could be used to others). Gosha can continue to make claims that he had nothing to do with the raid until he's blue in the face, but if he hadn't added the code in secret in the first place, the raid would not have happened.

Wrong.

Nobody could have used the broadcast message other than staff members. It is a very clear and explicit condition.

if (!player.IsStaff)
    return;

This code allowed the raid to happen, its a matter of fact.
We're not saying it was the only thing that allowed the raid to happen, it also required whatever was reverting Gosha's ban / staff removal, but without it the raid certainly wouldn't have happened.

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Also, LukeM, why the heck would you blame Gosha when you have no evidence? Are you protecting Xeno or what? I felt so angry that you blamed Gosha when you have no evidence to show that he raided EE. Think before you do any action, blaming Gosha randomly will make me lose some trust to you.

Gosha is 100% guilty, the only debate is what for.
He certainly allowed the raid to happen, whether by telling other people how to do it or by doing it himself.
We have pretty good evidence that Gosha was the one carrying out the raid to (basically what John said, it was pretty obvious he was doing it from what happened in the world), but no, this bit isn't certain.

Last edited by LukeM (2019-01-11 22:33:41)

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#135 2019-01-11 22:34:54

Raphe9000
Member
From: OGLE-2017-BLG-0560
Joined: 2015-03-16
Posts: 1,069

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

I propose for Diff to splinter off this argument from the main topic and move it to Debates. That's all this is now, and it definitely isn't questions and answers.

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#136 2019-01-11 23:35:41

BEE
Member
Joined: 2015-03-14
Posts: 1,673

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Raphe9000 wrote:

I propose for Diff to splinter off this argument from the main topic and move it to Debates. That's all this is now, and it definitely isn't questions and answers.

Ha, I like you Raphe. You seem to be looking at the situation with a critical eye that is also calm. I agree let's move to debates. "The mystery of the EE drama. Whodunnit" then we can have clue-like responses "Atilla, in the lobby, with the candlestick" or whatnot.

Anywho

@Luka504 I disagree. Xeno wasn't giving an ultimatum but rather saying "These are the only two options I see, both of them you are wrong with so unless you can prove me wrong this is my perspective." He didn't say "Admit it or I'll do xyz" which would be what you are referring to, if I understand your analysis correctly.

@Gosha, thank you for responding but @John Thank you for sharing your thoughts on his response

@LukeM I love the comparison of word to pdf, it really helped me, but then I got lost in the discussion about coding and whatnot so I apologize. It appears it was mostly in response to Atilla anyways.

For those suggesting suing, I might remind you that suing is more of a US thing, and Xeno is not from the US so being sue-happy isn't really something his country is equipped to deal with.

It appears as though people do just want to continue to debate over this rather than come to a resolution so I will stop my calls for reasonable solutions until it is wanted.

Last edited by BEE (2019-01-11 23:36:03)


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Thanks Xen for my Avatar and Smitty for the smiley 47BA5lq.png

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#137 2019-01-11 23:44:34

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,159

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

BEE wrote:

@Luka504 I disagree. Xeno wasn't giving an ultimatum but rather saying "These are the only two options I see, both of them you are wrong with so unless you can prove me wrong this is my perspective." He didn't say "Admit it or I'll do xyz" which would be what you are referring to, if I understand your analysis correctly.

Yeah I agree. Upon re-reading what I've written I realized just how stupid it sounds. I'm sorry.


How long will it take me to get banned again?
Place your bets right here.

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#138 2019-01-12 00:01:43

Tomahawk
Forum Mod
From: BiH
Joined: 2015-02-18
Posts: 1,806

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

BEE wrote:

Anyone else from groups 3 or 4 care to chime in with thoughts about a resolution?

Phina probably deserves to be reinstated as a standard moderator without the additional advisory role - if she wants to.

Gosha's a troll. End of.

Xeno seems to be glossing over most of the criticism directed at him. Perhaps he should make a thread emphasising his regret, admitting his apparent flaws and promising to do better, etc etc, but pressuring him to make a public apology removes the value of that apology. I think it's still best for the game if he remains owner, but he needs to bring on board people whose judgement he trusts, to advise him on the correct courses of action in future and prevent further drama.


One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

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#139 2019-01-12 00:31:48

ILoveYoshi368
Member
Joined: 2017-07-16
Posts: 15

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Quick question.

Seriously, like- SERIOUSLY, can you all shut up? Y'all are rekindling the same fire that burnt down the community.


dead

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#140 2019-01-12 00:32:11

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,880

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

LukeM wrote:

What atilla did however was similar to converting a word document to a PDF. All the data is recoverable, just it takes a non-trivial amount of work. Just to clarify, I'm going to do it programatically over the weekend, its just a non-trivial thing to do and would take more time than I had to spare at the time.

It isn't a non-trivial amount of work, I literally spent ~20 minutes last night writing an example and sent it to you on Discord yesterday. You shouldn't need a weekend to write 100 lines of code, not including the JSON parser.

You have spent several hours at least arguing about the possibility of doing it, and that you don't have very much time... while spending several hours arguing.

LukeM wrote:

This code allowed the raid to happen, its a matter of fact.
We're not saying it was the only thing that allowed the raid to happen, it also required whatever was reverting Gosha's ban / staff removal, but without it the raid certainly wouldn't have happened.

If someone is capable of removing a ban, they can likely do far worse than changing people's smiley faces and giving them moderator mode. I wouldn't be so quick as to suggest the raid wouldn't have happened.

LukeM wrote:

You're missing the point, nobody would have even known it was there if Gosha didn't release the information, even if the code itself wasn't complex it allowed the raid to happen.
The problem we have isn't "it was difficult code to write, we don't want people stealing our work", its "the information can (and was) used to cause significant disruption to the game"

If they had staff member access, then they could've probably banned people or cleared worlds. I'd hardly consider changing smiley faces and giving people moderator mode a "significant disruption" in comparison, but okay.

Last edited by XxAtillaxX (2019-01-12 00:35:26)


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#141 2019-01-12 00:57:51

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 15,805

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Atilla, just skimming through your post you seem to just be picking at word choices, do you have anything you'd actually like to contribute to the discussion.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#142 2019-01-12 01:32:16

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,688
Website

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:
LukeM wrote:

It isn't a non-trivial amount of work, I literally spent ~20 minutes last night writing an example and sent it to you on Discord yesterday. You shouldn't need a weekend to write 100 lines of code, not including the JSON parser.

You have spent several hours at least arguing about the possibility of doing it, and that you don't have very much time... while spending several hours arguing.

As I've told you several times now, I was not at my computer, so I could not have done it while we were arguing (plus I was already doing other things during that //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue)

XxAtillaxX wrote:
LukeM wrote:

If someone is capable of removing a ban, they can likely do far worse than changing people's smiley faces and giving them moderator mode. I wouldn't be so quick as to suggest the raid wouldn't have happened.

LukeM wrote:

If they had staff member access, then they could've probably banned people or cleared worlds. I'd hardly consider changing smiley faces and giving people moderator mode a "significant disruption" in comparison, but okay.

If they wanted to do more damage then they would have, and as they didn't we can assume they didn't want to, so the raid wouldn't have happened //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue

Last edited by LukeM (2019-01-12 01:36:26)

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#143 2019-01-12 02:39:47

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,880

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Different55 wrote:

Atilla, just skimming through your post you seem to just be picking at word choices, do you have anything you'd actually like to contribute to the discussion.

I have, would you like to contribute?


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#144 2019-01-12 02:42:51

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 15,805

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

I've said everything I care to say at this point, only reason I posted is that you seem to only exist to blindly contradict other people right now which isn't moving us any closer to putting this behind us.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#145 2019-01-12 02:50:45

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,880

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Different55 wrote:

I've said everything I care to say at this point, only reason I posted is that you seem to only exist to blindly contradict other people right now which isn't moving us any closer to putting this behind us.

I didn't blindly contradict him by stating that it wasn't a trivial amount of time. It is a trivial amount of time and I demonstrated that by doing exactly what he stated would be a trivial amount of time, within twenty or so minutes.


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#146 2019-01-12 03:06:51

The Party Animal
Formerly TPA2
From: The Zoo
Joined: 2015-07-10
Posts: 485

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

I see more drama on EE then a "Keeping up with the Kardashian's" episode.


snip                   
                                                                      " I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me"
                                                                                                                                          - Frank Costello

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#147 2019-01-12 03:14:43

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 15,805

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

XxAtillaxX wrote:
Different55 wrote:

I've said everything I care to say at this point, only reason I posted is that you seem to only exist to blindly contradict other people right now which isn't moving us any closer to putting this behind us.

I didn't blindly contradict him by stating that it wasn't a trivial amount of time. It is a trivial amount of time and I demonstrated that by doing exactly what he stated would be a trivial amount of time, within twenty or so minutes.

Picking at words, I said picking at words.

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If they had staff member access, then they could've probably banned people or cleared worlds. I'd hardly consider changing smiley faces and giving people moderator mode a "significant disruption" in comparison, but okay.

And blind contradiction

XxAtillaxX wrote:

If someone is capable of removing a ban, they can likely do far worse than changing people's smiley faces and giving them moderator mode. I wouldn't be so quick as to suggest the raid wouldn't have happened.

This is getting us nowhere, now you're literally nitpicking about how you're not actually nitpicking.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#148 2019-01-12 04:11:37

XxAtillaxX
Member
From: Canada
Joined: 2015-11-28
Posts: 3,880

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Different55 wrote:

Picking at words, I said picking at words.

You said blindly contradict, which I didn't do in that instance, and if that's what you consider not contributing to the topic, that's silly to say the least.

I think you're choosing words out of your **** and shouting them from the rooftop. Picking at words! Blind contradiction! Nitpicking! Nitpicking!

That isn't contributing to the topic, either.


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#149 2019-01-12 05:31:09

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: China
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 614

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

Sure, LukeM said that they have plenty of evidence, why can’t you show them? If you can’t you’re just protecting Xeno because it seems like you have no evidence atm.

At this time we can just wait the devs to find out who is the original raider, after they find out we can discuss more.


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#150 2019-01-12 10:43:28

frostflare
Member
Joined: 2016-05-23
Posts: 29

Re: Security Concerns, & Reasons for Firing Staff in January 2019

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Sure, LukeM said that they have plenty of evidence, why can’t you show them? If you can’t you’re just protecting Xeno because it seems like you have no evidence atm.

At this time we can just wait the devs to find out who is the original raider, after they find out we can discuss more.

I assume this was kind of obvious, but when there is an investigation taking place. One of the worst things you can do when you're trying to build a case is reveal any evidence you have against the other party.

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