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Nanosaurus

Member

Joined: 2015-08-24

Posts: 10

Hologram Platforms

A new group of blocks which are spikes, platforms, coins, and other items, but all of them have a similar texture to the hologram smiley. They can only physically be touched, or do anything to the player if they are using the hologram smiley. It would give a great new use to the hologram block.

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"You have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have." - J.R.R. Tolkien

azurepudding

Member

Joined: 2016-11-18

Posts: 726

Re: Hologram Platforms

Could support if hologram was changed into an effect tile with a disable tile with it, AND if they made hologram versions of all smileys- not just basic smiley.

But that sounds like a lot of work when switches linked to platforms and spikes would be much more practical and easier to implement.

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Hologram Platforms

Could support if hologram was changed into an effect tile with a disable tile with it, AND if they made hologram versions of all smileys- not just basic smiley.

But that sounds like a lot of work when switches linked to platforms and spikes would be much more practical and easier to implement.

I think that there shouldn't be a disable option for hologram. I think it should be kept as you have to change your smiley to remove it. That way, this technically has a new function instead of just being like a team effect or switch.

All that's really needed is hologram doors and gates, everything else can simply be behind these blocks.

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azurepudding

Member

Joined: 2016-11-18

Posts: 726

Re: Hologram Platforms

Could support if hologram was changed into an effect tile with a disable tile with it, AND if they made hologram versions of all smileys- not just basic smiley.

But that sounds like a lot of work when switches linked to platforms and spikes would be much more practical and easier to implement.

I think that there shouldn't be a disable option for hologram. I think it should be kept as you have to change your smiley to remove it. That way, this technically has a new function instead of just being like a team effect or switch.

All that's really needed is hologram doors and gates, everything else can simply be behind these blocks.

Well if it was made an actual effect, I'd imagine you couldn't remove it at will anymore.  It just sounds like a hassle having to keep opening the smiley selector every time you need to revert back to non-hologram.  Plus level builders would be limited in map structure in the case someone disables and gets stuck- there would always need to be a spike and check points littered about to accommodate.  I'd rather it just act like a team effect or switch- only differentiating by appearance.  If it's up to the player to disable when needed, why not just use a switch system, to ensure the player will never get stuck?

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Hologram Platforms

Could support if hologram was changed into an effect tile with a disable tile with it, AND if they made hologram versions of all smileys- not just basic smiley.

But that sounds like a lot of work when switches linked to platforms and spikes would be much more practical and easier to implement.

I think that there shouldn't be a disable option for hologram. I think it should be kept as you have to change your smiley to remove it. That way, this technically has a new function instead of just being like a team effect or switch.

All that's really needed is hologram doors and gates, everything else can simply be behind these blocks.

Well if it was made an actual effect, I'd imagine you couldn't remove it at will anymore.  It just sounds like a hassle having to keep opening the smiley selector every time you need to revert back to non-hologram.  Plus level builders would be limited in map structure in the case someone disables and gets stuck- there would always need to be a spike and check points littered about to accommodate.  I'd rather it just act like a team effect or switch- only differentiating by appearance.  If it's up to the player to disable when needed, why not just use a switch system, to ensure the player will never get stuck?

I don't see the point of just adding a reskinned team effect. If this is to be added then it needs a unique function. That unique function should be that it can be disabled manually at any time by the player. Level builders won't be limited in map structure, they can just use a team effect or switches. But besides, getting stuck is the fault of bad map design.

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azurepudding

Member

Joined: 2016-11-18

Posts: 726

Re: Hologram Platforms

Could support if hologram was changed into an effect tile with a disable tile with it, AND if they made hologram versions of all smileys- not just basic smiley.

But that sounds like a lot of work when switches linked to platforms and spikes would be much more practical and easier to implement.

I think that there shouldn't be a disable option for hologram. I think it should be kept as you have to change your smiley to remove it. That way, this technically has a new function instead of just being like a team effect or switch.

All that's really needed is hologram doors and gates, everything else can simply be behind these blocks.

Well if it was made an actual effect, I'd imagine you couldn't remove it at will anymore.  It just sounds like a hassle having to keep opening the smiley selector every time you need to revert back to non-hologram.  Plus level builders would be limited in map structure in the case someone disables and gets stuck- there would always need to be a spike and check points littered about to accommodate.  I'd rather it just act like a team effect or switch- only differentiating by appearance.  If it's up to the player to disable when needed, why not just use a switch system, to ensure the player will never get stuck?

I don't see the point of just adding a reskinned team effect. If this is to be added then it needs a unique function. That unique function should be that it can be disabled manually at any time by the player. Level builders won't be limited in map structure, they can just use a team effect or switches. But besides, getting stuck is the fault of bad map design.

But the suggested effect could work just as well if it was based on the switch system, minus the risk of someone getting stuck.  A designer can avoid the chance of someone getting stuck, but they'd need to put spikes and check points or holograms in every reachable room.  Having to stop and open what's essentially similar to a pause screen to toggle something off doesn't sound like a fun and exciting mechanic to me.  I can't think of any other game where you have to pause to toggle a switch or disable a power up.. when a switch or means of power up removal can simply be provided.

There's nothing wrong with using the same mechanic with a different appearance- for example, sometimes fire may be more fitting than spikes, even though they behave exactly the same.  Gray basic and Blue basic are also the same mechanically, but different looks can provide better world creation.  More switch-type stuff should be welcomed as it opens the ability to design worlds with different colored blocks- imagine only building a world with gray basic.  Now imagine only having purple blocks for switch stuff..

Anyway, simply adding doors and gates wouldn't be enough I think, as the potential usage is greatly hindered with the need to stuck-proof your levels, and at best.. switches could have been used for less of a hassle.  Converted to an irremovable effect (with cancel panel), you can do the same stuff and more, without needing to stuck-proof everything and without the hassle of needing to essentially pause the game to toggle off.

Maybe if there was a key to press to disable the hologram, as when I play I like not having to switch over to mouse, but you'd still need check points and spikes all over under heavy usage.. when you could have just used switches.  But then, why add a special key for it, because switches again?

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Spetsnaz

Member

Joined: 2018-10-01

Posts: 80

Re: Hologram Platforms

A new group of blocks which are spikes, platforms, coins, and other items, but all of them have a similar texture to the hologram smiley. They can only physically be touched, or do anything to the player if they are using the hologram smiley. It would give a great new use to the hologram block.

u posted in the wrong topic

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mutantdevle

Moderation Team

From: Hell

Joined: 2015-03-31

Posts: 3,848

Website

Re: Hologram Platforms

But the suggested effect could work just as well if it was based on the switch system, minus the risk of someone getting stuck.  A designer can avoid the chance of someone getting stuck, but they'd need to put spikes and check points or holograms in every reachable room.  Having to stop and open what's essentially similar to a pause screen to toggle something off doesn't sound like a fun and exciting mechanic to me.  I can't think of any other game where you have to pause to toggle a switch or disable a power up.. when a switch or means of power up removal can simply be provided.

There's nothing wrong with using the same mechanic with a different appearance- for example, sometimes fire may be more fitting than spikes, even though they behave exactly the same.  Gray basic and Blue basic are also the same mechanically, but different looks can provide better world creation.  More switch-type stuff should be welcomed as it opens the ability to design worlds with different colored blocks- imagine only building a world with gray basic.  Now imagine only having purple blocks for switch stuff..

Anyway, simply adding doors and gates wouldn't be enough I think, as the potential usage is greatly hindered with the need to stuck-proof your levels, and at best.. switches could have been used for less of a hassle.  Converted to an irremovable effect (with cancel panel), you can do the same stuff and more, without needing to stuck-proof everything and without the hassle of needing to essentially pause the game to toggle off.

Maybe if there was a key to press to disable the hologram, as when I play I like not having to switch over to mouse, but you'd still need check points and spikes all over under heavy usage.. when you could have just used switches.  But then, why add a special key for it, because switches again?

A world designer can avoid having people get stuck by simply not being a crappy world designer. Using spikes and checkpoints to solve this isn't the only way of doing so, there are far more creative methods which would make for unique world design.

Sure, this feature isn't the best mechanic in the world. But I'd argue that this difference in that way it works at least adds a little more than a reskin to the game and could inspire some great concepts. I think the primary usage would be to add an element of puzzle to the world. Sure, this exact effect can be replicated with switches that you can only hit once. However, this new mechanic gives more control to the player instead of the world creator having to make specific locations where you press a switch. Further to this, there is actually something completely new that I think this adds. Say for example you disabled the hologram effect whilst inside a hologram door. I'd assume you wouldn't become stuck and instead the doors and gates will just change as soon as you leave the block. A similar thing can happen with team effects except with the hologram method you get the choice of whether or not this happens which could make for some interesting gameplay. Alternatively, a reskinned team effect adds nothing new.

I don't think that the function of this suggestion is too comparable to reskins of blocks and hazards. Blocks are naturally going to have reskins because that's the aesthetics of the game. Fire hazards are useful because of how broadly they could be used. A hologram aesthetic is not something that is going to be commonly used. It fits a specific theme. The least used blocks in EE are the ones that only have a specific theme. Multipurpose simple blocks are used a lot more because they fit more styles. Holograms do not share this trait.

I can also think of a way that will pretty much replicate hologram as a team effect. Simply perform a check to see if the player is a hologram and if they are not then punish them for it (eg. not allowing them to progress). This means that players will be forced to use the hologram effect where you want them to. You'd just need to have something to indicate to the player when they should disable the effect - that's probably an entirely new world concept all on its own.

I don't see the point of this just being a reskinned team effect when we already have a team effect. If you want more team effects we should just add more colours - or use switches! Hologram is too narrow of a theme to have any value as a unique team effect. I've mentioned 3 world concepts that manual deactivation could inspire, albeit concepts that are mostly replicable already. A reskin would add nothing of any real value.

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azurepudding

Member

Joined: 2016-11-18

Posts: 726

Re: Hologram Platforms

A world designer can avoid having people get stuck by simply not being a crappy world designer. Using spikes and checkpoints to solve this isn't the only way of doing so, there are far more creative methods which would make for unique world design.

Sure, this feature isn't the best mechanic in the world. But I'd argue that this difference in that way it works at least adds a little more than a reskin to the game and could inspire some great concepts. I think the primary usage would be to add an element of puzzle to the world. Sure, this exact effect can be replicated with switches that you can only hit once. However, this new mechanic gives more control to the player instead of the world creator having to make specific locations where you press a switch. Further to this, there is actually something completely new that I think this adds. Say for example you disabled the hologram effect whilst inside a hologram door. I'd assume you wouldn't become stuck and instead the doors and gates will just change as soon as you leave the block. A similar thing can happen with team effects except with the hologram method you get the choice of whether or not this happens which could make for some interesting gameplay. Alternatively, a reskinned team effect adds nothing new.

I don't think that the function of this suggestion is too comparable to reskins of blocks and hazards. Blocks are naturally going to have reskins because that's the aesthetics of the game. Fire hazards are useful because of how broadly they could be used. A hologram aesthetic is not something that is going to be commonly used. It fits a specific theme. The least used blocks in EE are the ones that only have a specific theme. Multipurpose simple blocks are used a lot more because they fit more styles. Holograms do not share this trait.

I can also think of a way that will pretty much replicate hologram as a team effect. Simply perform a check to see if the player is a hologram and if they are not then punish them for it (eg. not allowing them to progress). This means that players will be forced to use the hologram effect where you want them to. You'd just need to have something to indicate to the player when they should disable the effect - that's probably an entirely new world concept all on its own.

I don't see the point of this just being a reskinned team effect when we already have a team effect. If you want more team effects we should just add more colours - or use switches! Hologram is too narrow of a theme to have any value as a unique team effect. I've mentioned 3 world concepts that manual deactivation could inspire, albeit concepts that are mostly replicable already. A reskin would add nothing of any real value.

A new use like this can allow some other opportunities, I just don't like the idea of needing to change smileys in order to progress, needing the mouse for this one specific function.  Being able to switch from hologram mode to normal at will also sounds weird, but..

What if it was its own effect, where the toggle was by pressing C (and being in the range of NPCs would prioritize speech over toggle), where the map maker can set how many toggles are allowed- if set to 2, you can toggle to this second state, then back to original state and the effect would expire.  Can be set to -1 like with multijump for infinite toggles.  Maybe some kind of ghost effect with spectral blocks that toggle depending on state.  Could also break from the binary door/gate system and use IDs on these blocks for additional toggles- toggle between state 1, state 2, state 3, then cycle back.

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N1KF

Wiki Mod

From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ From: ဪဪဪဪဪ

Joined: 2015-02-15

Posts: 11,103

Website

Re: Hologram Platforms

What if it was its own effect, where the toggle was by pressing C (and being in the range of NPCs would prioritize speech over toggle)

My first thought: level where you have to avoid NPCs so you can activate the effect.

The rest of your post sounds kinda complex though. Hologram blocks are visually distinct, while numbers are a lot more confusing to play and work with. We already have several blocks that use switches, and another would just make things trickier.

Colors would be simpler, but I'm not sure how to make the order of colors clear. Letters, plus a unique color for each letter could make them stand out pretty well from switches. Your suggestion would allow for instant toggles in gameplay. This is something I've wanted or a while, which is one of the reasons I made my [topic=https://forums.everybodyedits.com/viewtopic.php?id=38130]Phantom Smileys[/topic] suggestion.