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#1 2018-08-29 05:42:53

ILikeTofuuJoe
Banned
From: Obvervable Universe
Joined: 2018-06-04
Posts: 1,435
Website

Time for an insane campaign

Hey people, enough with the Extreme campaigns? Well, since they added INSANE difficulty, I think it would be a good idea to make some worlds and group them in to a...... INSANE campaign!!!!!

·*.·<<<750 posts!>>>·.*·

Last edited by ILikeTofuuJoe (2018-08-29 05:44:42)


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#2 2018-08-29 05:47:20

Slabdrill
Formerly 12345678908642
From: canada
Joined: 2015-08-15
Posts: 2,856
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Re: Time for an insane campaign

that's what worst is


suddenly random sig change

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#3 2018-08-29 21:23:39

BuzzerBee
Forum Admin
From: Texas, U.S.A.
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 3,934
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Re: Time for an insane campaign

Moved to campaign suggestions


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#4 2018-08-29 23:44:32

Jet
Wiki Mod (Formerly zyhrllos)
Joined: 2015-11-08
Posts: 1,996

Re: Time for an insane campaign

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#5 2018-08-30 05:43:34

ILikeTofuuJoe
Banned
From: Obvervable Universe
Joined: 2018-06-04
Posts: 1,435
Website

Re: Time for an insane campaign

nobody uses the wiki


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#6 2018-08-30 06:55:50

Joeyc
Member
From: Italy
Joined: 2017-11-05
Posts: 1,303

Re: Time for an insane campaign

says only you

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#7 2018-08-30 07:16:30

2B55B5G TNG
Member
From: I don't know...
Joined: 2016-08-27
Posts: 314

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Time for an insane campaign? There's already an insane campaign.

Last edited by 2B55B5G TNG (2018-08-30 07:16:40)


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#8 2018-08-30 07:17:10

Joeyc
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From: Italy
Joined: 2017-11-05
Posts: 1,303

Re: Time for an insane campaign

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

Time for an insane campaign? There's already a insane campaign.

Slabdrill wrote:

that's what worst is

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#9 2018-08-30 07:56:17

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 674

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Wait there's an Insane difficulty?  But wouldn't extreme not be extreme anymore

Last edited by azurepudding (2018-08-30 08:20:04)

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#10 2018-08-30 14:50:27

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,267

Re: Time for an insane campaign

NO INSANE CAMPAIGNS NO EXTREME CAMPAIGNS ANYMORE THANKS ok for the majority of sakes an hard-extrme campaing could be fine sigh


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#11 2018-09-03 17:41:39

Helvi
Member
Joined: 2015-04-06
Posts: 1,103

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Its not time for an insane campaign.
In fact, we already have two of them when considering the last maps difficulty rating to determine the campaigns overall difficulty level.

Going by the hardest map of each campaign get something like this - not considering the tutorial campaign and the advent calender.
Please correct me when I am wrong.

Half of all campaigns are already hard enough and can act as blocker for most people, including myself. "get gud" does not apply.
Roughly a third is good for the general playerbase.
There are hardly any entry level campaigns for new player.

Please remember that completing campaigns creates a sense of progression to keep people playing EE.
No, what the game really needs is content for new people and casual gamer.


CDveJML.jpg

Source: https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/Campaign

Last edited by Helvi (2018-09-03 17:42:59)


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#12 2018-09-03 17:52:41

mutantdevle
Member
From: Hell
Joined: 2015-03-31
Posts: 2,273
Website

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Yeah, we need more easy campaigns.

Last edited by mutantdevle (2018-09-03 17:52:53)


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#13 2018-09-03 18:05:37

Kirby
Campaign Team
Joined: 2015-04-04
Posts: 4,000

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Helvi wrote:

Its not time for an insane campaign.
In fact, we already have two of them when considering the last maps difficulty rating to determine the campaigns overall difficulty level.

Going by the hardest map of each campaign get something like this - not considering the tutorial campaign and the advent calender.
Please correct me when I am wrong.

Half of all campaigns are already hard enough and can act as blocker for most people, including myself. "get gud" does not apply.
Roughly a third is good for the general playerbase.
There are hardly any entry level campaigns for new player.

Please remember that completing campaigns creates a sense of progression to keep people playing EE.
No, what the game really needs is content for new people and casual gamer.


https://i.imgur.com/CDveJML.jpg

Source: https://wiki.everybodyedits.com/Campaign

going by the hardest map is kinda bull and you used that to skew the statistic, and medium-hard seems pretty good for a casual player anyway

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#14 2018-09-03 18:10:35

ZeldaXD
EE Homeboy
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 1,149
Website

Re: Time for an insane campaign

We need more fun campaigns.

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#15 2018-09-03 18:21:35

Helvi
Member
Joined: 2015-04-06
Posts: 1,103

Re: Time for an insane campaign

@Kirby

No, going the hardest map is not "bull". It is valid for various reasons, let alone the fact that some 'average' value does not reflect its actual rating. You can have a medium campaign with a basic+easy map, along with a medium+hard. It won't help anyone when you say its easy-hard or medium-hard. This last level, the hard one, will always be hard and therefore not within the spirit of difficulty rating. It is you to cheese the difficulty curve with misleading descriptions and interpretations, teasing with a seemingly fair to beat map while the opposite is true. The hard part serves as blocker, preventing progression.

I do have huge problems with the hard maps and just stopped even attempting them again.
Like Relativity or Puzzle Pack 1 which caused me alot of headaches until I decided to redo it with a walkthrough.


In winter's cloak we've sheltered long, waiting for spring's sweet song. Though warmth we found beside the hearth, its glow could not break through the dark.

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#16 2018-09-03 18:25:49

Kirby
Campaign Team
Joined: 2015-04-04
Posts: 4,000

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Helvi wrote:

@Kirby

No, going the hardest map is not "bull". It is valid for various reasons, let alone the fact that some 'average' value does not reflect its actual rating. You can have a medium campaign with a basic+easy map, along with a medium+hard. It won't help anyone when you say its easy-hard or medium-hard. This last level, the hard one, will always be hard and therefore not within the spirit of difficulty rating. It is you to cheese the difficulty curve with misleading descriptions and interpretations, teasing with a seemingly fair to beat map while the opposite is true. The hard part serves as blocker, preventing progression.

I do have huge problems with the hard maps and just stopped even attempting them again.
Like Relativity or Puzzle Pack 1 which caused me alot of headaches until I decided to redo it with a walkthrough.

well, if that's the case, you still chose the upper bound of ranged difficulties. The "Hard-Extreme" map at the end of Looks can Deceive doesn't mean the map starts hard and ultimately ends at extreme, it means that it's edging the lower bound of the extreme difficulty but isn't quite there yet. Calling the LCD extreme is just incorrect, and you did this for quite a few of the campaigns on this chart.

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#17 2018-09-03 18:45:27

Helvi
Member
Joined: 2015-04-06
Posts: 1,103

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Please, feel free to re-arrange the pie chart to fit your idea of the difficulty curve. I really look forward to it.
Also allow me to note that in 2018 you released 2 insane, 2 hard and 3 medium ones (or 2 medium + 1 easy).
Half of 2018' added campaign content aims to those few hardcore gamer.

I ask you: what is the reason of my rather uncomfortable opinion and behavior on the chat/game of the recent months?
Why do I feel like being left alone with all the other casual gamer?
What are your plans to equal the content drought for us casual guys and girls?


In winter's cloak we've sheltered long, waiting for spring's sweet song. Though warmth we found beside the hearth, its glow could not break through the dark.

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#18 2018-09-03 18:47:26

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,069

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Helvi wrote:

Going by the hardest map of each campaign get something like this - not considering the tutorial campaign and the advent calender.
Please correct me when I am wrong.

I have a lot of issues with your chart. First of all, if you go only by the hardest level in the campaign, you could make an medium campaign have a hard difficulty because it's last world happened to be a hard one, which leads to false representation.
Secondly, you didn't feature any of the in-between difficulties. This means that a medium-hard campaign would get represented as a hard campaign despite the fact that it's not the intended difficulty for it.
Thirdly, this chart doesn't count the fact that not all extreme campaigns are complete and utter trash. Fractured Fingers and Bittersweet campaigns are hard, but they are clearly high quality campaigns and do not deserve to be lumped together with Perpetual Frustration or Trial & Terror.
Fourthly, most people in the community can beat medium-hard campaigns.
So, I decided to make my own chart by going off by the difficulty showed in the campaign tab, as I feel it's the most accurate representation of the campaigns.

Hidden text

So, let me explain why the chart looks like this.
The slices closest to the center are the campaigns pretty much anyone can beat, if they decide to put in some effort. They make up more than 50% of all campaigns.
Then, the two slices that are slightly moved represent the "Hard, but still fair and fun" category. A good chunk of people can't beat these campaigns, but they are still very well made worlds that shouldn't be placed together with the awful campaigns.
Then we have the trash levels that only the most dedicated players can beat. They only make up about a fifth of all campaigns, instead of the quarter your dinky chart showed, Helvi.

Conclusion: 80% of the campaigns in the game are good campaigns, with more than 50% of the total campaigns are campaigns a majority of people can beat. Stop complaining just because you personally dislike hard campaigns, you're not the only person in EE and it isn't fair that all of the campaigns are catered to your own tastes.


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#19 2018-09-03 19:09:30

Master1
Campaign Team
From: Crait
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 4,397

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Helvi wrote:

Half of 2018' added campaign content aims to those few hardcore gamer.

Helvi wrote:

What are your plans to equal the content drought for us casual guys and girls?

Half isn't equal? :thinking:


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#20 2018-09-03 19:29:31

Helvi
Member
Joined: 2015-04-06
Posts: 1,103

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Sorry Master1, I understand you are picky and rephrase my question accordingly:

"What are your plans to balance the content drought for us casual guys and girls?"

@Luka,
I appreciate your effort and explaination of your viewpoint which I totally understand. As mentioned earlier do I believe that the hightest difficulty rating determines the overall difficulty representing each campaign. I explained, that you can give someone 3 differently heavy weights and ask to life them. Two can be lifted, while the third is just too heavy and therefore prevent someone from beating your challenge. With your quite trained and strong arms you can life all three of them with ease, yet I cannot and leave it behind in bittersweet, perpetual frustration. Or in other words, your trial is terror to me. Any further attempts to lift those weights will fracture my fingers.

Anyway, your pie chart also shows a quite high count of very hard content in my opinion. The quality of the campaign should not determine its overall difficulty or challenge it poses. The rating was given by the campaign team and in pretty much all cases it is very accurate (thumps up to M1, Kirby and Rava <3 ). Still, it doesn't change my mood when it comes to playability. All I ask for is just some casual content for us casual people who make up the biggest potion of the playerbase.


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#21 2018-09-03 20:02:21

peace
Member
From: admin land
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 3,267

Re: Time for an insane campaign

medium hard an dhard campaings are the ones i call chalanges but fun they take some time pe rmini but not 1K detahs per minigame and endin gup takeing the winbrik at 3657846384 deaths and a total time (considering no breaks) of 2 days


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#22 2018-09-03 20:49:33

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,069

Re: Time for an insane campaign

@Helvi
I understand where you're coming from, in fact I kind of agree with you as I believe EE would benefit from more easy campaigns. But, if you're going to make charts at least make them more precise. You cannot judge a campaign based on it's hardest level and lumping different difficulties together into one is very inaccurate and makes you less credible.

You should also realize that different people have different tastes. Some people love brutally challenging maps, but need a save system to make the worlds more feasible. Should we take away the campaigns they love just because they're in the minority of players? I don't like to use this argument, but maybe you should just not play difficult maps if you don't like them.


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#23 2018-09-03 21:19:28

azurepudding
Member
Joined: 2016-11-18
Posts: 674

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Luka504 wrote:

@Helvi
I understand where you're coming from, in fact I kind of agree with you as I believe EE would benefit from more easy campaigns. But, if you're going to make charts at least make them more precise. You cannot judge a campaign based on it's hardest level and lumping different difficulties together into one is very inaccurate and makes you less credible.

You should also realize that different people have different tastes. Some people love brutally challenging maps, but need a save system to make the worlds more feasible. Should we take away the campaigns they love just because they're in the minority of players? I don't like to use this argument, but maybe you should just not play difficult maps if you don't like them.

I do see why Helvi did this tho, as if you can only beat up to medium and not hard, then you won't be able to beat a campaign that's all medium but with a final hard level.  You can beat most of the campaign, but you can't beat the campaign, effectively making it as if it was a hard campaign.

I don't think any campaigns really do this, do they? I mean when they do it's listed medium-hard, not just medium.

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#24 2018-09-03 22:35:09

Luka504
Member
From: Serbia,probs never heard of it
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 2,069

Re: Time for an insane campaign

azurepudding wrote:

I do see why Helvi did this tho, as if you can only beat up to medium and not hard, then you won't be able to beat a campaign that's all medium but with a final hard level.  You can beat most of the campaign, but you can't beat the campaign, effectively making it as if it was a hard campaign.

I don't think any campaigns really do this, do they? I mean when they do it's listed medium-hard, not just medium.

I see where you're coming from, but there's a fault in that logic. If we judge a campaign's difficulty based solely on one world, then that directly means that none of the other worlds have importance to judge how difficult a campaign is. If we use that logic, a campaign with 4 basic worlds and one medium world would have a medium difficulty rating. But a campaign with 5 medium worlds would also have the same difficulty, and that's just weird and confusing.
It's a lot less frustrating (and in turn, less difficult) to play a campaign comprised mostly out of medium worlds than to play a campaign comprised of only hard maps.

Last edited by Luka504 (2018-09-03 22:35:39)


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#25 2018-09-04 00:25:14

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,526
Website

Re: Time for an insane campaign

Personally, I don't really need to complete a whole campaign to enjoy it, so IMO if you are going to make a chart, you should include each world seperately, although maybe still bumping up easier worlds after harder worlds as you need to beat the hard world to be able to get to it (although almost all the campaigns go from easy to hard, so this doesn't affect much)

If you do it this way, you find that its about 2/3 Basic to Medium-Hard worlds (which are what normal players would be able to beat), and only around 1/3 Hard to Insane (the difficult ones), so it really isn't that unbalanced //forums.everybodyedits.com/img/smilies/tongue
I7c30pM.png
(source: A random bot I made to load the world difficulties, then manually entering them into excel, ignoring seasonals and bumping up easier worlds after harder worlds)

Last edited by LukeM (2018-09-04 00:38:15)

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