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Slabdrill

Formerly 12345678908642

From: canada

Joined: 2015-08-15

Posts: 3,402

Website

An INSANE world

https://everybodyedits.com/games/PWyX095pgvcUI

if you're too lazy to copy the sign in the level, https://prnt.sc/kn7q1e

special thanks to thwink for having better cp placement judgment than i do

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HeyNK

Member

Joined: 2017-04-07

Posts: 1,318

Re: An INSANE world

What?  "Difficulty being harder due to length is a matter of perception"??? That's completely false. It's not that "oh no i've come so far... now I will screw up because of the gambler's fallacy "

First a hypothetical example to explain Cumulative Execution Difficulty.

is a great EE player who is quite possibly the best in the world at hookjumps.

Ask him to do a hook and he'll do it with 90% success rate. So if he had to do 1 hook it would be very easy.
Ask him to do 20 hooks in a row without falling and he'll do it with (0.9)^20 ~= 12% success rate. Plot twist: is a robot with no feelings and can't feel pressure or stress or perception, yet he has a significantly harder time doing the same minigame 20 times in a row then once.

The way XeonghdmeroX talks about minigames in his example is as though each minigame is a toll booth that says WARNING: 300 SKILL REQUIRED TO PASS . If you have 300 skill you instantly win, if you have less then 300 skill you can't win.

In reality, human players fail on minigames that they are good enough to beat. A basic and easy minigame with an obvious solution (jump through the two spikes placed 2 blocks apart) might take 2 or 3 quick tries before speeding on through to the next mini. That's already like a 25%-33% success rate.

Also people get better at minigames they play again and again which increases their success rate, so it's not a static number. This also comes with the caveat that sometimes when you're in like a CTM no checkpoint zone, and you see something new, you say "well i have no idea what to do, there are like 2 things I could try and I don't know which one works."

So your initial success rate for a minigame could be very low until you try it a few times (which requires you to get there a few times) and then it will increase.

tl;dr  CTM is hard because playing several minigames in succession without cp's has a multiplicative effect on difficulty, and has nothing to do with perception or pressure because it affects an imperfect robot the same as a human

Slabdrill

Formerly 12345678908642

From: canada

Joined: 2015-08-15

Posts: 3,402

Website

Re: An INSANE world

i present the sequel, easier than INSANE.

https://everybodyedits.com/games/PWm4saR50vcUI

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Slabdrill

Formerly 12345678908642

From: canada

Joined: 2015-08-15

Posts: 3,402

Website

Re: An INSANE world

Hi so I'm considering making a third world based off what xenonetix said, that the death limit of TEIN:SMC is the only reason why its tier 5. I plan on removing all of the checkpoints, but also removing the death limit - according to xeno checkpoints don't change the difficulty, and as the world will no longer have a death limit, that means it'll actually be easier than the real world.

Or maybe make two, with the second exactly as it is but with 300 changed to 1. That must be harder than the current world, huh?

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Xenonetix

Past Owner

From: Moving on with my life

Joined: 2015-03-07

Posts: 899

Website

Re: An INSANE world

Hi so I'm considering making a third world based off what xenonetix said, that the death limit of TEIN:SMC is the only reason why its tier 5. I plan on removing all of the checkpoints, but also removing the death limit - according to xeno checkpoints don't change the difficulty, and as the world will no longer have a death limit, that means it'll actually be easier than the real world.

Or maybe make two, with the second exactly as it is but with 300 changed to 1. That must be harder than the current world, huh?

I mean, you just summarized my own point, and misconstrued the wording to your own ends.

Saying the world will "no longer have a death limit" is not true, because of course, the death limit is 1 if there are no checkpoints. It just results in a quicker reset rather than having to reset the world, saving time.

The part of my statements that are naturally missing is that it's all a matter of saving time. If there are no checkpoints, it takes a lot longer to achieve the minis, but the technical motor skills required to beat the minis are the same. The perceived difficulty is higher because the emotional level required to complete the minis without checkpoints is higher, so stress levels are increased, and the pressure to succeed is increased because the emotional stakes are higher. The stakes in these cases are that the amount of time you'll have to commit to completing the level will be higher, and as a result, the task seems more difficult.

A good example of this is walking a tightrope - If you walk a tightrope between two tree stumps, and walk a tightrope exactly the same length between the top of two multi-storey buildings, and all the criteria, such as wind speed and direction, are identical, the only difference is that you have a further distance to fall if you fail. As a result, the pressure is higher if you walk the building tightrope, so nerves can get to you, and you're more likely to mess up the walking. People say "Oh that was easy" if they walk the tightrope near the ground, but what they truly mean by "easy" in that sense is that the overall task was easier mentally, but the actual physical task would be identical to crossing the tightrope no matter what height it is.

If a robot were programmed to do the task of walking that tightrope, it would succeed every time no matter the height, because there are no stakes for it to fail, and physically, it would be doing the exact same actions.

It's a matter of perception.

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Lictor666

Guest

Re: An INSANE world

ctm with cp is a very fun adventure
should be campaigned

HeyNK

Member

Joined: 2017-04-07

Posts: 1,318

Re: An INSANE world

How  can you know so little about a game you own

SmittyW

Member

Joined: 2015-03-13

Posts: 2,085

Re: An INSANE world

Imagine this kid if you will. This poor limbless indonesian boy struggling to get up a single set of stairs. He hasn't even gotten up the first step when Xeno with his fedora and cigar comes along. He walks past the boy and onto the set of stairs, and as he's about to reach the flight he stops and turns around. Xeno lightly tips his fedora and whispers "These stairs are easy. It's all a matter of perception. A good example of this is walking a tightrope - If you walk a tightrope between two tree stumps, and walk a tightrope exactly the same length between the top of two multi-storey buildings, and all the criteria, such as wind speed and direction, are identical, the only difference is that you have a further distance to fall if you fail. As a result, the pressure is higher if you walk the building tightrope, so nerves can get to you, and you're more likely to mess up the walking. People say 'Oh that was easy' if they walk the tightrope near the ground, but what they truly mean by 'easy' in that sense is that the overall task was easier mentally, but the actual physical task would be identical to crossing the tightrope no matter what height it is". Xeno takes one last smoke, flicks his finished cigar onto poor lad's face, and leaves him stricken on the bottom steps

Luka504

Member

From: Serbia,probs never heard of it

Joined: 2015-02-19

Posts: 2,934

Re: An INSANE world

A good example of this is walking a tightrope - If you walk a tightrope between two tree stumps, and walk a tightrope exactly the same length between the top of two multi-storey buildings, and all the criteria, such as wind speed and direction, are identical, the only difference is that you have a further distance to fall if you fail. As a result, the pressure is higher if you walk the building tightrope, so nerves can get to you, and you're more likely to mess up the walking. People say "Oh that was easy" if they walk the tightrope near the ground, but what they truly mean by "easy" in that sense is that the overall task was easier mentally, but the actual physical task would be identical to crossing the tightrope no matter what height it is.

I do not think that is a fair example. A better analogy would be that you have a tight-rope, but there are platforms along the way that you can stop on and take a break and enjoy the view, before continuing to walk the tightrope. It's much easier to walk a tight rope if you can stop to catch your breath every minute or so.

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Slabdrill

Formerly 12345678908642

From: canada

Joined: 2015-08-15

Posts: 3,402

Website

Re: An INSANE world

I think I get what xeno doesn't get about my point.

I understand their point about difficulty. The problem is, difficulty isn't the measure that people use to decide how difficult a world is - they use the measure of how time-consuming (and not frustrating) it is.

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