Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-04 20:14:42

ten percent of the world population is still 750,000,000 people btw. which is twice the population of the US

TaskManager · 2018-06-04 20:49:26

Zoey2070 wrote:

ten percent of the world population is still 750,000,000 people btw. which is twice the population of the US

which is half the population of china
>tfw you realize china is 20% of the world

Xfrogman43 · 2018-06-04 21:12:04

LukeM wrote:

Why not just always use 'they', then you never use the wrong pronoun and it's even less effort working of what to say than he and she!

some people hate "they" and want you to be FORCED to call them their preferred pronoun because "they" just offends them

mrjawapa · 2018-06-04 22:21:18

LukeM wrote:

Why not just always use 'they', then you never use the wrong pronoun and it's even less effort working of what to say than he and she!

I woman called me "ma'am" the other day. You know what happened? Nothing. Because **** happens and not every wrong doing needs to be followed up with a riot.

If you're a trans, and I know you as a guy, I'm going to address you as a guy. I admire the fact you would willingly lop off your **** to pursue happiness, but that's not going to make me change the way I address you. At the same time, I'm not going to go out of my way to intentionally address you in a way that would upset you.

If it's someone I've never met before, it's going to be an assumption. If you look like a woman, I'm going to address you as a woman.

If they look like this:

I'm not going to assume woman. Why? Because this looks like a man. Call it stereotypical, or whatever you please, everyone would assume this to be a man.

Xfrogman43 wrote:

some people hate "they" and want you to be FORCED to call them their preferred pronoun because "they" just offends them

The pic of the person above wants to be addressed as, "they/them/their." He made a video on it saying pronouns are not a preference, they are mandatory for interaction with trans people.

Xfrogman43, IanJanes

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-04 22:57:18

in this topic: a bunch of straight people arguing and trying to say pride has no point while also being transphobic

RavaTroll

mrjawapa · 2018-06-04 23:09:04

Zoey2070 wrote:

a bunch of straight people arguing

am I mistaken, or a few people in this topic openly gay/bisexual?

Zoey2070 wrote:

transphobic

Remember, kids, if you don't agree or understand you're a bigot or phobic.

Xfrogman43, TaskManager, IanJanes

Bimps · 2018-06-04 23:20:06

Zoey2070 wrote:

in this topic: a bunch of straight people arguing and trying to say pride has no point while also being transphobic

im saying pride is stupid and so is transphobia

Xfrogman43, TaskManager

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-04 23:54:42

jawapa wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
transphobic
Remember, kids, if you don't agree or understand you're a bigot or phobic.

you don't get to **** "agree" or "disagree" on someone's identity dawg. who made you the **** gender police and the be-all-end-all judge of how valid someone's identity is?

mrjawapa wrote:

that's not going to make me change the way I address you

that's transphobic.

mrjawapa wrote:

The pic of the person above wants to be addressed as, "they/them/their." He

that's transphobic. you're literally stating their preferred pronouns and then not using them.

being stubborn and purposely misgendering people is transphobic. if they want to be called they then call them they, holy crap, it's not hard. stop being an **** to people when it takes like 0 effort and means a lot more than you'd think to them.

if you don't want to be called transphobic, maybe respect trans ppl more and **** change 3 words in your vocabulary for them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphob … _exclusion

https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-is-w … le-so-much

https://www.healthline.com/health/trans … sgendering

here's how you stop being transphobic:

step one) ask "what are your preferred pronouns"
step two) use those pronouns

u did it congrats!! you fixed urself!!

RavaTroll

Enurp · 2018-06-05 00:00:03

Zoey2070 wrote:

that's transphobic. you're literally stating their preferred pronouns and then not using them.

I have trans friends and slip up so easily when I say the wrong pronoun. This is a new thing for society and sometimes it can be awkward to switch. I think stretching the term Transphobia over to "slipping up a pronoun" can soil the fact that there are people who are transphobic and incredibly hateful to trans people.

mrjawapa

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-05 00:02:21

Enurp wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
that's transphobic. you're literally stating their preferred pronouns and then not using them.
I have trans friends and slip up so easily when I say the wrong pronoun. This is a new thing for society and sometimes it can be awkward to switch. I think stretching the term Transphobia over to "slipping up a pronoun" can soil the fact that there are people who are transphobic and incredibly hateful to trans people.

there's a difference between accidentally doing it and purposefully and consciously going out of ur way to not use the right pronouns. slipping up is fine. accidents happen. absolutely refusing to use the right pronoun is transphobia.

hummerz5 · 2018-06-05 00:09:43

not to get terribly meta here, but I'm noticing that a lot of this topic is rather superficial. Someone walks up and says "The world is like this. Screw/love those people." And someone else says "no you're wrong." At some point, we're losing the step where we actually debate points or consider someone else's merit in their argument. Perhaps this issue is just not one that can be debated well without someone just spouting off whatever beliefs they've happened across and come to internalize. Or is that just me?

to continue by example: we're rewriting our bylaws here in a college group and one of our criteria is to swap out "his or her" with "their" -- I'm not complaining, but I find it interesting to note that people take it to this level.

mrjawapa, IanJanes

Enurp · 2018-06-05 00:10:52

hummerz5 wrote:

not to get terribly meta here, but I'm noticing that a lot of this topic is rather superficial. Someone walks up and says "The world is like this. Screw/love those people." And someone else says "no you're wrong." At some point, we're losing the step where we actually debate points or consider someone.

no you're wrong. also ur a stinkbutt

Zoey2070 wrote:

there's a difference between accidentally doing it and purposefully and consciously going out of ur way to not use the right pronouns. slipping up is fine. accidents happen. absolutely refusing to use the right pronoun is transphobia.

I honestly believe it's a mistake, again this is a new thing for society and it's hard to just change how someone speaks

thanksL0L · 2018-06-05 00:25:00

lgbt is debateble everywhere in this forum also hummerz what do you mean by meta?

mrjawapa · 2018-06-05 00:46:10

Zoey2070 wrote:

you don't get to **** "agree" or "disagree" on someone's identity dawg. who made you the **** gender police and the be-all-end-all judge of how valid someone's identity is?

Zoey2070 wrote:

stop being an ****

Zoey2070 wrote:

u did it congrats!! you fixed urself!!

Glad we can have a level headed and civil conversation.

I think you missed what I was getting at. It never fails. If you don't understand something, or can't wrap your mind around it, you're a bigot. If you don't give into an idea you're afraid of it or you hate it, regardless of whether or not you give a ****.

Zoey2070 wrote:

that's transphobic.

Transphobic is often used to describe the hatred or fear of transsexuals. What I said is neither. Saying something you don't like doesn't make me afraid of you, or mean that I hate you. It's inconsiderate at most.

Zoey2070 wrote:

stubborn and purposely misgendering people is transphobic

Zoey2070 wrote:

stop being an **** to people when it takes like 0 effort

Actually, I didn't intentionally call them "he". I tried to keep from accidentally saying "he", because I knew someone would have a stroke. Guess that's what I get for not spell checking. It's not out of hatred, and far from being fear. I think it proves my point, though. If in my mind a person is a man, I will address them as a man; whether intentionally, or accidentally. That's the way we speak, it's almost second-nature. The argument that it takes no effort is a bad one. It's a demand that people change an involuntary action.

How hard is it to correct someone that addresses you inappropriately? As I mentioned earlier, I was called a "ma'am" yesterday (I said the other day, but it was yesterday. my days run together anymore). I was at taco bell, in the drive through, and the lady said, "go ahead with your order whenever you're ready, ma'am." Even though she addressed me incorrectly, I ordered anyway. I didn't go on a rant about how it's cisphobic, and how it's not that hard to ask me what I want to be called.

Master1 · 2018-06-05 01:58:48

Zoey2070 wrote:

here's how you stop being transphobic:
step one) ask "what are your preferred pronouns"
step two) use those pronouns
u did it congrats!! you fixed urself!!

So if you're scared of trans people, all you have to do is ask them a question and then that fear is cured? Does this logic apply to other fears as well??? If I'm arachnophobic do I just have to ask the spider it's preferred pronouns and then im good???? wowee

we found the cure for fear guys

IanJanes

Slabdrill · 2018-06-05 02:39:40

Master1 wrote:

Zoey2070 wrote:
here's how you stop being transphobic:
step one) ask "what are your preferred pronouns"
step two) use those pronouns
u did it congrats!! you fixed urself!!
So if you're scared of trans people, all you have to do is ask them a question and then that fear is cured? Does this logic apply to other fears as well??? If I'm arachnophobic do I just have to ask the spider it's preferred pronouns and then im good???? wowee
we found the cure for fear guys

Unlike the usual use of "phobia", being transphobic doesn't mean you're scared of them. It just means you don't like them. Zoey's solution doesn't exactly work - it just means you pretend to not not like them. Even then, when you pretend something for long enough, it becomes a habit.

...i agree with jawapa's arguments in this thread.

Abelysk · 2018-06-05 03:04:35

I'm pretty sure it's disconcerting to address transexuals by their former sex--not rude, just uncomfortable, given a transexual is trying to be the opposite gender.

mutantdevle

Zoey2070 · 2018-06-05 03:22:40

"i'm not transphobic, i'm just not going to make any attempt to correctly gender someone because **** you" ok

saying you refuse to accept people as their gender is transphobic. full stop.

i'm done here because i can't handle this anymore. can we just close this **** topic and preferably nuke it into orbit and pretend it never happened

Slabdrill · 2018-06-05 03:33:09

If you don't want to argue just don't open this thread?

Most people are passive - if they see someone as a certain gender, they're going to refer to them as that gender. You're saying this is being transphobic - it isn't, it just takes extra effort in having basic conversation because you have to be extra conscious about what you say, as it's not what you'd normally say in a casual conversation if you weren't worrying about it.

I only use "they" because I don't realize when I do, and when I do notice I'm using a pronoun, a reason for me to use "they" is that it **** certain people off.

Also now that the thread in OT is locked are we allowed to have general discussion in this thread or do i have to make my own?

IanJanes

mutantdevle · 2018-06-05 03:36:23

mrjawapa wrote:

Even though she addressed me incorrectly, I ordered anyway. I didn't go on a rant about how it's cisphobic, and how it's not that hard to ask me what I want to be called.

Y'know, most trans people don't actually get **** when you use the incorrect pronoun. They'll either correct you politely or ignore it because they've learnt to just deal with that ****.

Trans people don't tend to get angry when you get it wrong, they're just really grateful when you get it right.

They're only annoyed when you intentionally go out of your way to call them the incorrect pronoun and make a deal out of it - I don't believe you're doing that.

I do, however, think it's a bad habit of yours to call someone their birth gender when they're very clearly trans in some way. Obviously, it's not always easy to tell just by looking at a trans person what their preferred pronoun is. In which case it's most respectful to just either ask or use they until you know. After all, the pronoun they has always been used when gender is undefined or unknown.

Pedit:

Slabdrill wrote:

Also now that the thread in OT is locked are we allowed to have general discussion in this thread or do i have to make my own?

Sure, that's what the 'n stuff is for in the title :3

Slabdrill

N1KF · 2018-06-05 03:45:06

I think it's good to show manners and respect other peoples' small requests.

mrjawapa · 2018-06-05 04:01:13

Zoey2070 wrote:

"i'm not transphobic, i'm just not going to make any attempt to correctly gender someone because **** you"

I'm not seeing this anywhere in the topic. I have no idea where you're getting this from.

Zoey2070 wrote:

saying you refuse to accept people as their gender is transphobic. full stop.

ehhhh, I think that would be more bigoted than transphobic. I don't have to hate something to not accept it.

Zoey2070 wrote:

can we just close this **** topic and preferably nuke it into orbit and pretend it never happened

Can we get rid of all the comments I don't like? Some of the things said here bother me, and I don't want to see them.
#EESafeSpace

mutantdevle wrote:

Y'know, most trans people don't actually get **** when you use the incorrect pronoun. They'll either correct you politely or ignore it because they've learnt to just deal with that ****.

I'm aware. However, the few that are very dramatic about it are the ones that standout, and ultimately act as a representation of the rest.

mutantdevle wrote:

They're only annoyed when you intentionally go out of your way to call them the incorrect pronoun and make a deal out of it

Wouldn't expect anything else. If someone's doing that, they're only looking for a rise.

mutantdevle wrote:

very clearly trans in some way

I think we might have a different idea of what "clearly trans" means.

Xfrogman43 · 2018-06-05 04:13:06

hey zoey your other topic was on fire.

to know i'm never going to be accepted or even have a basic amount of respect around here for what i am.

honestly i dont care what people are as long as you dont shove it down my throat. also you're asking a toxic community to give you respect... really not a good idea

TaskManager, Master1, mrjawapa, IanJanes

mutantdevle · 2018-06-05 04:22:50

mrjawapa wrote:

However, the few that are very dramatic about it are the ones that standout, and ultimately act as a representation of the rest.

Yeah, that's always been super annoying. Women have the same issue with certain feminists. I wish people would respond more calmly and not resort to calling people bigoted or anything like that because, just like telling a trans person their gender doesn't exist won't stop them believing they are that gender, telling a homophobe they're a homophobe isn't going to stop them being a homophobe. We're very much a community of love and educating people in a loving and calm way is the best way we can decrease discrimination. Someone's not going to address you by your preferred pronoun if you yell at them for getting it wrong.

Slabdrill, mrjawapa, IanJanes

ILikeTofuuJoe · 2018-06-05 05:03:13

How do I post?

Zoey2070, Enurp, Master1, Bimps, Pyromaniac, RailMat, mutantdevle

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#76 2018-06-04 20:14:42

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#77 2018-06-04 20:49:26

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#78 2018-06-04 21:12:04

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#79 2018-06-04 22:21:18

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#80 2018-06-04 22:57:18

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#81 2018-06-04 23:09:04

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#82 2018-06-04 23:20:06

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#83 2018-06-04 23:54:42, last edited by Zoey2070 (2018-06-04 23:56:27)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#84 2018-06-05 00:00:03

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#85 2018-06-05 00:02:21

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#86 2018-06-05 00:09:43

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#87 2018-06-05 00:10:52, last edited by Enurp (2018-06-05 00:26:17)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#88 2018-06-05 00:25:00

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#89 2018-06-05 00:46:10

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#90 2018-06-05 01:58:48, last edited by Master1 (2018-06-05 02:03:56)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#91 2018-06-05 02:39:40, last edited by Slabdrill (2018-06-05 02:40:47)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#92 2018-06-05 03:04:35

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#93 2018-06-05 03:22:40

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#94 2018-06-05 03:33:09, last edited by Slabdrill (2018-06-05 03:34:39)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#95 2018-06-05 03:36:23, last edited by mutantdevle (2018-06-05 03:38:11)

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#96 2018-06-05 03:45:06

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#97 2018-06-05 04:01:13

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#98 2018-06-05 04:13:06

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#99 2018-06-05 04:22:50

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

#100 2018-06-05 05:03:13

Re: Random LGBT+ debates 'n stuff

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