Intrest poll, mafia

HeyNK · 2017-09-23 20:35:37

This forum seems like a pretty casual spot but I thought I'd ask anyways:

Is there anyone here who has interest in a playing a closed normal game, with much longer (~1 week = 1 day) deadlines to allow for *gasp* ACTUAL SCUMHUNTING? Just curious how many people wouldn't instantly leave the game if they rolled VT and saw the day deadline was 1 week instead of lmao48hours.

Interest in actual scumhuntin/discussion is probably low, so I'd also consider running a 9p clone of [this] game, with a safehouse mechanic best described by this post:

During the day, instead of lynching mafia, the town votes on someone to put into the safe house. If no majority vote is reached during the day, the player with the highest number of votes is picked. If there is a tie, RNG is used. During the night mafia kills as normal. Players sent to the safehouse do not have thier role revealed, and can no longer post in the thread.
The safehouse only holds 3 people. So at the end of Day 3, there are 3 people in the safe house. At the end of the third day, a nuclear warhead kills everyone not in the safehouse. All dead players flip as usual.
If it is 3 town, town wins automatically.
If it is 2 scum and 1 town, scum wins automatically.
If it is 1 scum and 2 town, the three safehouse players come back into the thread and participate in a in 3-man LYLO. Town wins if the scum gets lynched, loses if one of the town get lynched.

However, the reason I think this setup is most interesting for this forum in particular is that if scum lurks, they are pretty much guaranteed to lose. Just want to see if anyone has any interest?

Zumza · 2017-09-23 21:14:37

Different55 · 2017-09-23 21:55:40

Would be interested

Harmonious · 2017-09-23 21:58:20

Different55 wrote:

Would be interested

mutantdevle · 2017-09-23 23:45:02

I’m not entirely sure I like the sound of 1 week long days. That just seems a little boring and I think I’d lose interest easily.

I don’t get how a 1 week scum hunt is any more effective than a 48 hour or a 72 hour day. In fact, I think it would be worse. With a one week day people will have more time to think about thier posts meaning they are less likely to make slips from pressure or rushing. It would also give people an excuse not to post much since they have a full week to do so. Finally, with week long days, you would have to constantly reread everything. I doubt many people are going to remember what was said 5+ days ago so you’d have to constantly re-read everything.

Also it’s kinda ironic how you want a ‘normal’ setup but want the voting system to mean something different...

I would like to see a more simple, generic or ‘normal’ setup like the one in discord mafia 1 (but with different roles) though. After 2 experimental games it would be nice to return to the basic mafia concept next game. Just not with a stupidly long day length...

hummerz5, mrjawapa, TaskManager, Onjit, MartenM, Slabdrill

HeyNK · 2017-09-24 00:25:08

First of all, the OP is 2 different suggestions. Maybe I wasn't clear.

I don’t get how a 1 week scum hunt is any more effective than a 48 hour or a 72 hour day. In fact, I think it would be worse. With a one week day people will have more time to think about thier posts meaning they are less likely to make slips from pressure or rushing. It would also give people an excuse not to post much since they have a full week to do so. Finally, with week long days, you would have to constantly reread everything. I doubt many people are going to remember what was said 5+ days ago so you’d have to constantly re-read everything.

I get that you're new to mafia theory, but as an actual semi-experienced player, the low deadlines are absolutely terrible for town. Consider mafia 14 on the day martenM was lynched. Everyone just quicklynched him... no time to discuss, no time to discern if he was actually town or not. Consider pretty much any day of that game for that matter. Information is good for town. Discussion is information. You can't lurk for entire days at once as scum (music man, 14) and get away with it... people have the time to notice you. More discussion, more back and forth, is good for town. If someone is intentionally not participating in that because "we have an entire week whats even the point of playing", congrats! You just ID'd someone who isn't scumhunting, time to lynch them! And let me confirm that yes... people make slips all the time in games with days MUCH longer then a week. If you still want to fight me over it I'll link you some.

Yes, you would have to re-read. No, you would not have to do it constantly. ISOs exist to mitigate this. Yes, analysing things takes scumhunting skill. What is the problem here again?

Long days ( tbh it's actually half days since standard day length is 2 weeks in a true normal game ) put MORE pressure on scum then anything, becuase you can't lurk or you stick out 7 times as hard. You've got to maintain your reputation for longer, and it forces every player to play their best.

It takes some theory to understand this, I get that most on this forum probably don't have that. I get it, I don't belong here. Mostly just putting out there that yes, the core game of mafia outside of follow the cop PR diarrhea and the like.

Harmonious · 2017-09-24 01:12:45

I believe Marten would have been lynched regardless of a longer dayspan. And, there's the matter of IRL happenings that might interfere with a person's ability to post.

Tbh though it seems to me a number of people here interested in mafia are a bit antsy, wanting results sooner rather than later. I feel like week-long days won't change the meta too hard to warrant ruling it out. The day ends when someone gets lynched anyways, after all.

As for the safehouse thing, maybe do that as another experimental game. That one sounds like it's going to take far fewer days/nights than the standard vote system. Plus, we're a bunch of filthy casuals that are still trying to properly meta the standard stuff.

Also, HeyNK, are you implying you want to try a setup with one of these 2 things right after Onjit's game? I don't think you are, but that seems to be the impression Dev is getting.

AlphaJon · 2017-09-24 01:13:32

i think the safehouse concept kinda contradicts the scumhunting part of mafia games. Because you are voting for other townies instead, and in the end wouldn't even need to hunt the mafia down to win.

HeyNK wrote:

If there is a tie, RNG is used.

Hell no. You can't have RNG potentially deciding who wins the game.

And I agree with 1 week per day being way too long, even for a forum-hosted mafia game.

HeyNK · 2017-09-24 03:19:03

Hey, at the end of the day I'm not the one playing it, so if you guys like short deadlines, it's not my problem.

Jon, thank you for demonstrating your lack of understanding of mafia theory.

And yes, it is indeed up to the town to prevent RNG from being used. Last resort and all.

HeyNK · 2017-09-24 03:22:33

NEW QUESTION THAT WARRANTS A NEW POST SINCE IT IS UNIVERSAL AND NOT ADDRESSED TO A SINGLE PERSON::::::::;;;

What is the best day length in a game where not everyone is a pr and it is optimal for town to lynch every day (for this forum)? There are no wrong answers :^)

Harmonious · 2017-09-24 03:24:11

HeyNK wrote:

NEW QUESTION THAT WARRANTS A NEW POST SINCE IT IS UNIVERSAL AND NOT ADDRESSED TO A SINGLE PERSON::::::::;;;
What is the best day length in a game where not everyone is a pr and it is optimal for town to lynch every day (for this forum)? There are no wrong answers :^)

hey uh
this sounds like you're prodding us and that's condescending
please don't

Slabdrill · 2017-09-24 03:30:40

24 hours, since no one has any information to lynch by any means other than RNG

actually if a lynch every day is optimal just dont set a time limit lol

mutantdevle · 2017-09-24 10:29:01

HeyNK wrote:

I get that you're new to mafia theory,

You say that as though it invalidates my opinion. Again you made a similar defence against AlphaJon in claiming that he has no understanding of mafia theory. We don't need to understand mafia theory. We have our own opinions and can pick apart what we find fun and what sounds fun.

HeyNK wrote:

but as an actual semi-experienced player, the low deadlines are absolutely terrible for town. Consider mafia 14 on the day martenM was lynched. Everyone just quicklynched him... no time to discuss, no time to discern if he was actually town or not. Consider pretty much any day of that game for that matter.

The quick lynch on marten was the town's own doing. No amount of time would have prevented that. They still had plenty of time, having even more potential time wouldn't have changed that. And do town really need to be buffed? Town statistically wins more games. It is easier for the town to win than it is for scum. The town does not need to be inherently stronger. There were many reasons why town lost game 14 but a lack of time was not one of them. The only instances that I've seen the time limit affect the game is how 24 hour first days often lead to a no lynch. Hence why in my game I had day 1 as just as long as the rest of the days; which still lead to a no lynch. I think that day one will often result in a no lynch purely because there isn't enough information to go on. If we had a week, then sure, someone might be lynched. But they'd still be lynched without much information. I'd rather get to day 2 where the town has more knowledge than pointless waste a week squabbling. If I'm honest here, it really does sound like you are salty over the result of game 14. Not just in this post but in previous things you have said since the game ended.

HeyNK wrote:

Information is good for town. Discussion is information. You can't lurk for entire days at once as scum (music man, 14) and get away with it... people have the time to notice you. More discussion, more back and forth, is good for town. If someone is intentionally not participating in that because "we have an entire week whats even the point of playing", congrats! You just ID'd someone who isn't scumhunting, time to lynch them!

You make it sound like you want the tactic of lurking to be illegal. Guess what? Not everyone has to be vocal and staying quiet has its advantages. It is a valid tactic and people should have the freedom to do it. The fact that Music Man got away with lurking for quite a while just proves how effective the tactic can be. He was only lynched out of the process of elimination. Music Man was also the MVP of discord game 1 and basically won the game for us at the end. I doubt he would have achieved the same result if he was vocal about his thoughts. Whilst I do not like to lurk myself, I understand it as a very effective tactic in certain situations and for some people it's just their playstyle. You also forget that EE mafia is casual. Some people who play the game will naturally not be as engaged as others.

HeyNK wrote:

And let me confirm that yes... people make slips all the time in games with days MUCH longer then a week. If you still want to fight me over it I'll link you some.

Your examples will have no impact here. Your examples will probably come from games where almost every player plays competitively. Here at EE, whilst some of us take the game more seriously than others, you have to remember that they are basically casual games. Week long games won't make the not so active players engage more but rather I'd think it would drive them further away.

HeyNK wrote:

What is the problem here again?

The probelm is that people arn't going to re-read. There are already some players who don't actually read everything, you now expect them to also re-read what things as well? It just wouldn't work in this casual setting.

HeyNK wrote:

since standard day length is 2 weeks in a true normal game

Sorry what? I fail to see how 2 week long days would be fun. Unlike mafiascum, EE doesn't have constantly starting games. If all days lasted 2 weeks then we'd probably only have 3 or 4 games a year; and that's being optimistic.

HeyNK wrote:

becuase you can't lurk or you stick out 7 times as hard. You've got to maintain your reputation for longer, and it forces every player to play their best.

Again, you forget this is a casual environment. Not everyone plays the game like their life depends on it. Forcing players to play "at their best" will probably put many of the casual players here off the game.

HeyNK wrote:

I get it, I don't belong here.

It's not that you don't belong here, it's just that you shouldn't try to force competitive game styles onto casual players. EE mafia has room for those of us who wish to play more competatively, it's just that we shouldn't expect everyone to.

HeyNK wrote:

What is the best day length in a game where not everyone is a pr and it is optimal for town to lynch every day (for this forum)?

As far as I know, most games on EE have typically been 48 or 72 hour days; with the exception of day 1 which is often 24 hours for some reason (I undertsand if there is no day 1 lynch but if there is then I think the time should be normal). This is the time frame that most people are used to and comfortable with so I think it should remain that way.

Slabdrill wrote:

actually if a lynch every day is optimal just dont set a time limit lol

"Why are we lynching this early in the day? We still have our whole lives to find a better target"

Harmonious, Slabdrill

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2017-09-23 20:35:37

Intrest poll, mafia

#2 2017-09-23 21:14:37

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#3 2017-09-23 21:55:40

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#4 2017-09-23 21:58:20

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#5 2017-09-23 23:45:02

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#6 2017-09-24 00:25:08

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#7 2017-09-24 01:12:45, last edited by Harmonious (2017-09-24 01:13:45)

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#8 2017-09-24 01:13:32, last edited by AlphaJon (2017-09-24 01:14:08)

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#9 2017-09-24 03:19:03, last edited by HeyNK (2017-09-24 03:19:32)

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#10 2017-09-24 03:22:33

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#11 2017-09-24 03:24:11

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#12 2017-09-24 03:30:40, last edited by Slabdrill (2017-09-24 03:39:11)

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

#13 2017-09-24 10:29:01

Re: Intrest poll, mafia

Board footer