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#1 2017-08-29 22:51:03

ninjasupeatsninja
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When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

Is it possible to optimize EE to not send as much network data as it needs when only 1 person is in the world? For example, remove the sending of "god" and "m", but keep "b" because if we wanted to save, we'd need to know the blocks in the world.

This could reduce network usage if only one person is afk in a world, and assist in users with low network.


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#2 2017-08-29 22:52:14

MartenM
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

Is it possible to optimize EE to not send as much network data as it needs when only 1 person is in the world? For example, remove the sending of "god" and "m", but keep "b" because if we wanted to save, we'd need to know the blocks in the world.

This could reduce network usage if only one person is afk in a world, and assist in users with low network.

Are we aiming for 4th world internet that has 1kb/h?
Those messages are almost no data.


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#3 2017-08-29 23:51:23

ninjasupeatsninja
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

MartenM wrote:

Are we aiming for 4th world internet that has 1kb/h?
Those messages are almost no data.

Why have a wasteful mindset?


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#4 2017-08-30 00:02:21

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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:

Why have a wasteful mindset?

I think just about any argument you can make debates what is technically "more wasteful" depending on context and morality... so your question begs the question "why waste energy coding something unnecessary?"

edit: eleven second ninja

edit: all aboard the "wastefulness is relative" train

Last edited by hummerz5 (2017-08-30 00:05:32)


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#5 2017-08-30 00:02:32

destroyer123
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
MartenM wrote:

Are we aiming for 4th world internet that has 1kb/h?
Those messages are almost no data.

Why have a wasteful mindset?

I havent done any calculations, but I think it would probably take more data having a load of extra code handling worlds differently needing to be downloaded when you play than it would save having a few fewer messages a small fraction of the time.

Also theres the general buggyness of EE, some of which caused by server latency. If this happened, then a lot of things some worlds rely on would just not work when playing with only one player in the world, and a lot of things you could do with just one player in the world would break as soon as another person connected and it went into online mode or whatever.

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-08-30 00:03:09)

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#6 2017-08-30 00:04:27

MartenM
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
MartenM wrote:

Are we aiming for 4th world internet that has 1kb/h?
Those messages are almost no data.

Why have a wasteful mindset?

Making such a system would be a waste of time and resources for minimal improvements (if any at all).


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#7 2017-08-30 00:49:06

Emalton
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

Well, the client sends the messages like "god" and "b" to basically check to see if it's allowed to do so.

The server send "god" / "b" back if it was successful. If EE really did that god thing, people would be able to fly.

The movement thing isn't a bad idea but the server needs to know where you are when others join.

tl;dr good intention, bad idea


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#8 2017-08-30 01:44:41

ninjasupeatsninja
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

Emalton wrote:

Well, the client sends the messages like "god" and "b" to basically check to see if it's allowed to do so.

The server send "god" / "b" back if it was successful. If EE really did that god thing, people would be able to fly.

The movement thing isn't a bad idea but the server needs to know where you are when others join.

tl;dr good intention, bad idea

The client would store if you're able to god mode or not. And if the client is edited? So be it! Hacked clients can already fly around, so why not?
The client would also store if you're able to edit. And if the client is edited? It might cause a little trouble based on how it's setup, but it should be handled, and if cannot be handled in a timely manner, perhaps a kick would be a viable solution? Though that does bring up the "if a player constantly joins at 1-2 players" dilemma, and it already exists even without any kicks due to the very nature of how it could be setup.

MartenM wrote:

Making such a system would be a waste of time and resources for minimal improvements (if any at all).

Think about a power company powering 10 neighborhoods.
If each house could save 1 kw per light bulb, assuming there's 20 light bulbs in each house, every house could save the power company 20 kw.
If there are 40 houses to a neighborhood, that's 800kw that could be saved.
If theres 10 neighborhoods, that's 8,000kw that could've been saved.

Then the power company wouldn't have to burn as much coal/fossil fuels/whatever else it burns for all those houses!

While this is an exaggerated example, many houses contain other devices that could be using up valuable electrical resources.


As you can see, the total net waste would go down if we saved. Vice versa for this.

Less packets = less bytes sent = less giga/megabytes net worth saved = less cost for the server ( if pio works like that ) = more uptime = good stuffs
It'd also reduce costs on the home user, as well as reducing their ISP costs, which would also save net worth for the ISP.
While it doesn't affect everyone in GREAT amounts because 7 billion people aren't playing EE, it still saves some costs and could help UnityEE (if it comes).

Also; not to say to optimize everything furiously untill 7 hours of work saves 1 bit per 100 packets; that's ridiculous but EE could then be regarded as a nice optimized game, but it's not a nice savings/work ratio.

destroyer123 wrote:

I havent done any calculations, but I think it would probably take more data having a load of extra code handling worlds differently needing to be downloaded when you play than it would save having a few fewer messages a small fraction of the time.

Also theres the general buggyness of EE, some of which caused by server latency. If this happened, then a lot of things some worlds rely on would just not work when playing with only one player in the world, and a lot of things you could do with just one player in the world would break as soon as another person connected and it went into online mode or whatever.

Look above for my "speech".

Could you give an example of what would break when one person connects and the world turns into "online" mode, per say?

Last edited by ninjasupeatsninja (2017-08-30 01:45:59)


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#9 2017-08-30 02:16:53

destroyer123
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

(Can't quote, on my phone)
Global switches, team doors, timed doors, timed effects (I think), keys, etc. have some randomish delays, which some systems may need, or 'offline' systems may not tolerate (e.g. the team but where you get stuck in team doors)

Also, depending on how much code is needed, there might not even be any data saved, as the flash file could increase more than messages decrease. Also, in most places, charging per gigabyte is a thing of the past, and as sending / receiving data takes very little power compared to your graphics card or whatever, for most people it would make next to no difference in 'cost' of playing EE. As for server side, yes it might make a small difference to server speed, but I think PlayerIO just has a standard price for each set of services, and how much data you use doesn't change that, so the more limited resource is probably staff time / effort.

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-08-30 02:18:29)

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#10 2017-08-30 02:26:17

Slabdrill
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

destroyer123 wrote:

Global switches, team doors, timed doors, timed effects (I think), keys, etc. have some randomish delays, which some systems may need, or 'offline' systems may not tolerate (e.g. the team but where you get stuck in team doors)

I believe that lag-based delays are a big reason people want offline mode in the first place.


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#11 2017-08-30 11:26:51

destroyer123
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From: England
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

Slabdrill wrote:
destroyer123 wrote:

Global switches, team doors, timed doors, timed effects (I think), keys, etc. have some randomish delays, which some systems may need, or 'offline' systems may not tolerate (e.g. the team but where you get stuck in team doors)

I believe that lag-based delays are a big reason people want offline mode in the first place.

Well yes, but then people may make worlds that only work in offline mode, which would mean (if this was implemented) you could only play them when you're the only one on (or if you're in a different offline mode)

IMO it would be better to first fix the latency problems (which I don't think would be that hard), then it would be possible to add an offline setting, and then once that was done, you could maybe add this as it wouldn't require writing any new code.

tl;dr; Fix latency problems first!!! Only do this idea if they also make an offline setting.

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#12 2017-09-04 13:30:21

HG
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Re: When a single user is in a world, submit minimal network data.

Slabdrill wrote:
destroyer123 wrote:

Global switches, team doors, timed doors, timed effects (I think), keys, etc. have some randomish delays, which some systems may need, or 'offline' systems may not tolerate (e.g. the team but where you get stuck in team doors)

I believe that lag-based delays are a big reason people want offline mode in the first place.

I have a suggestion that could fix that. Right here.


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