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LukeM

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From: England

Joined: 2016-06-03

Posts: 3,009

Website

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Just incase you didn't know, since this topic was made, the limit was removed for world owners, so this sort of thing should be possible again. There is still the problem of disconnecting people though (which is exaggerated while joining) so the world wouldn't be available to those with slow internet (unless you really limited the number of blocks)

I think capasha finished their animation thing, but I'm not completely sure.
If not, I guess I could make a simple animation tool, although I cba to make a gui, so it would either be 'programmable' in EE, or in text files

Also, it definatly wouldn't make whoever does it 'developer worthy' because although it could potentially be a good feature, it really isn't that hard to make, even with the old limit, everything that was possible was fairly easy, it was just that a lot wasn't possible

Swarth100

Member

Joined: 2015-07-18

Posts: 305

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Hey fellow EE players,
I don't know if there was a discussion about this a while ago, but i'm curious about what happened to people creating animated-level worlds in EE?

[...] Mage Wars as fourth, because of its advance gameplay territory battle style.

If possible, can I see a well made animated world?! I would love to play it. 

On a sidenote I'm working on making a tool to enable unexperienced users to create custom RPG-like Bots. Expect something over the next month or so.

John

Member

Joined: 2019-01-11

Posts: 2,009

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Delros made a savable animation bot.

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Tomahawk

Forum Mod

From: UK

Joined: 2015-02-18

Posts: 2,847

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

It's still an issue of scale. The more animations that are going on, the more they affect players with less-than-great connections. Large animations can cause bad lag and eventually disconnect some players.

So if you envisioned something like an animated campaign world, it would have to be either small or designed to limit the number of blocks being placed at the same time. It might be a trade-off between impressiveness or map length, and lagginess; you'll have do tests to find the limits.

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One bot to rule them all, one bot to find them. One bot to bring them all... and with this cliché blind them.

den3107

Member

From: Netherlands

Joined: 2015-04-24

Posts: 1,025

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

So if you envisioned something like an animated campaign world

Well, it's impossible to do it for a campaign since well... You can't edit anymore in a campaign.
But I assume You mean a normal platform level, in that case yeah, try and make a good balance, not too fast, not too slow. And don't make it too pixel perfect, since it'd be perfectly possible that a block might miss placing a block the moment it actually had to.

Doodle

Formerly Hacked

From: USA

Joined: 2016-09-04

Posts: 226

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Just incase you didn't know, since this topic was made, the limit was removed for world owners, so this sort of thing should be possible again. There is still the problem of disconnecting people though (which is exaggerated while joining) so the world wouldn't be available to those with slow internet (unless you really limited the number of blocks)

That's great that the limit has been increased, what update was that? Animated mini games don't require extreme fps to crash a world. Now with the limit extended it should be even better.

I think capasha finished their animation thing, but I'm not completely sure.
If not, I guess I could make a simple animation tool, although I cba to make a gui, so it would either be 'programmable' in EE, or in text files

I await Capasha response on that.

Also, it definatly wouldn't make whoever does it 'developer worthy' because although it could potentially be a good feature, it really isn't that hard to make, even with the old limit, everything that was possible was fairly easy, it was just that a lot wasn't possible

That was kind of a gimmick; I'm asking for a simpler version than one that would operate like in the old days with WPE pro.
It's still a special feature that would make whoever programmed the animator effective on EE today worthy of recognition.
And if this is so easy and simple to create, why aren't people creating worlds with animated mini games? What limitations?!

Hey fellow EE players,
I don't know if there was a discussion about this a while ago, but i'm curious about what happened to people creating animated-level worlds in EE?

[...] Mage Wars as fourth, because of its advance gameplay territory battle style.

If possible, can I see a well made animated world?! I would love to play it. 

On a sidenote I'm working on making a tool to enable unexperienced users to create custom RPG-like Bots. Expect something over the next month or so.

I look forward to seeing it.

It's still an issue of scale. The more animations that are going on, the more they affect players with less-than-great connections. Large animations can cause bad lag and eventually disconnect some players.

So if you envisioned something like an animated campaign world, it would have to be either small or designed to limit the number of blocks being placed at the same time. It might be a trade-off between impressiveness or map length, and lagginess; you'll have do tests to find the limits.

I'm not imagining something big like animated moving clouds, rather little moving platforms for mini games across the world. Destroyer123 said the limit was removed from world owners, if so, scale shouldn't affect players anymore right? The fps for animated mini games is not big to lag out players, rather can our server today handle it smoothly.

capasha

Member

Joined: 2015-02-21

Posts: 4,066

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Sorry but I'm too noob in programming.

Doodle

Formerly Hacked

From: USA

Joined: 2016-09-04

Posts: 226

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Sorry but I'm too noob in programming.

That's cheap sauce. You could probably easily create a simple one attatched to EEditor for everyone to use but your lazy to, or is it not worth it?  .

Destroyer123 if you will, that would be admirable. Much appreciated.

Emalton, is it available or private?

i just want to play or create a animated world. They are fun and unique. Im guessing most people would enjoy it too if the world is created well and easy.

capasha

Member

Joined: 2015-02-21

Posts: 4,066

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Sorry but I'm too noob in programming.

That's cheap sauce. You could probably easily create a simple one attatched to EEditor for everyone to use but your lazy to, or is it not worth it?  .

I quit EE. I don't see a reason to continue when EE is still coding on flash which is going to die anyway.
The most bot makers have already quit and this part on the forum is kinda dead too.

den3107

Member

From: Netherlands

Joined: 2015-04-24

Posts: 1,025

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

That's great that the limit has been increased, what update was that? Animated mini games don't require extreme fps to crash a world. Now with the limit extended it should be even better.

Somewhere in March. Previously the absolute maximum was 100 blocks/second (BPS), now, for as far as I know, it's virtually unlimited, although pretty much everybody will crash if you don't use any delay and place a ton of blocks.

<snip>
And if this is so easy and simple to create, why aren't people creating worlds with animated mini games? What limitations?!

Again, the amount of blocks you place can be rather limitating for fancy stuff.
Otherwise it's the step to start making bots that could prove difficult to people in order to make their own animated worlds.
Finally it's fairly hard (from what I can think of at least) to make a decent public bot that supports animating.
Currently the best bet (to me) looks like it should be an addition to EEditor, but last time I checked, people do not feel very motivated to work on it (at most keep it's current state usable) due to the low player base and interest of EE.

There's also a problem with animations in general: People can get stuck in blocks, need somewhat of a timeframe to respond, while at the same time you want to keep said timeframe as short as possible for added difficulty (at least later on).
Animating things can also become quite confusing quickly when you have several animations which all run on their own "clock" (easy example: one updates every 3 seconds and another every 4).
It can also just be very tiresome and tedious to create an animated world.

I'm not imagining something big like animated moving clouds, rather little moving platforms for mini games across the world. Destroyer123 said the limit was removed from world owners, if so, scale shouldn't affect players anymore right? The fps for animated mini games is not big to lag out players, rather can our server today handle it smoothly.

Scale certainly still affects players.
destroyer123 made a minor test.
Although his test would conclude a rough max BPS of around 1800, I would personally suspect it being around 1400, to support even the worst of PCs (from as far as I can tell, internet speed shouldn't be a real big factor).
After that, you have the amount of blocks per second, likely you want to move blocks around roughly each half and maybe even quarter of a second (let's be generous and say average is half). Leading to 700 bps.

If you want to move platforms up/down (taking a fairly random average of 4 wide platforms), you could animate at most 700/8 = ~87 platforms (8 because you have to remove 4 and place 4).
Moving platforms left and right (assuming they're always 1 "high") you only have to move 2 blocks, resulting in 700/2 = ~350 platforms (horizontal movement only).

Now these are just the most basic of animated "features", I can imagine there are more complex ones which would likely require more blocks to be placed.

Since I doubt a huge world full of only the 2 aforementioned "simple" animations would be fun, I think you'll be off with a safe maximum of around 150 (again, just an estimation) moving elements.

Do mind that this is totally just based of rough estimations and is not at all tested (aside form destroyer123's data).

John

Member

Joined: 2019-01-11

Posts: 2,009

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Emalton, is it available or private?

It's being worked on, I'll let you know when he's finished. He is almost done though.

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Doodle

Formerly Hacked

From: USA

Joined: 2016-09-04

Posts: 226

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Sorry but I'm too noob in programming.

That's cheap sauce. You could probably easily create a simple one attatched to EEditor for everyone to use but your lazy to, or is it not worth it?  .

I quit EE. I don't see a reason to continue when EE is still coding on flash which is going to die anyway.
The most bot makers have already quit and this part on the forum is kinda dead too.

Yeah, i understand. If only EE went 3.0-Unity. The game is still great, perhaps you can enjoy the game with remaining friends while it still lasts.

Again, the amount of blocks you place can be rather limitating for fancy stuff.
Otherwise it's the step to start making bots that could prove difficult to people in order to make their own animated worlds.
Finally it's fairly hard (from what I can think of at least) to make a decent public bot that supports animating.
Currently the best bet (to me) looks like it should be an addition to EEditor, but last time I checked, people do not feel very motivated to work on it (at most keep it's current state usable) due to the low player base and interest of EE.

There's also a problem with animations in general: People can get stuck in blocks, need somewhat of a timeframe to respond, while at the same time you want to keep said timeframe as short as possible for added difficulty (at least later on).
Animating things can also become quite confusing quickly when you have several animations which all run on their own "clock" (easy example: one updates every 3 seconds and another every 4).
It can also just be very tiresome and tedious to create an animated world.

Everything you just stated there, Delros's bot has surpassed. I recently tested it. Simply by creating commands to control those things. "tiresome and tedious" is what sometimes good creations take. Motivation and inspiration keeps the fire ignited to share and create awesome worlds, and remember moments of joy. Seems like you despise hard work. And yeah, if everything was easy, things would lean towards the boring side.

Scale certainly still affects players.
destroyer123 made a minor test.
Although his test would conclude a rough max BPS of around 1800, I would personally suspect it being around 1400, to support even the worst of PCs (from as far as I can tell, internet speed shouldn't be a real big factor).
After that, you have the amount of blocks per second, likely you want to move blocks around roughly each half and maybe even quarter of a second (let's be generous and say average is half). Leading to 700 bps.

If you want to move platforms up/down (taking a fairly random average of 4 wide platforms), you could animate at most 700/8 = ~87 platforms (8 because you have to remove 4 and place 4).
Moving platforms left and right (assuming they're always 1 "high") you only have to move 2 blocks, resulting in 700/2 = ~350 platforms (horizontal movement only).

Now these are just the most basic of animated "features", I can imagine there are more complex ones which would likely require more blocks to be placed.

Since I doubt a huge world full of only the 2 aforementioned "simple" animations would be fun, I think you'll be off with a safe maximum of around 150 (again, just an estimation) moving elements.

Do mind that this is totally just based of rough estimations and is not at all tested (aside form destroyer123's data).

Okay, your getting too technical. Relating bps with block amounts, oh my, i don't want to imagine that.
I will just hope it doesn't have any effect to players computers.

Emalton, is it available or private?

It's being worked on, I'll let you know when he's finished. He is almost done though.

Thank you.

den3107

Member

From: Netherlands

Joined: 2015-04-24

Posts: 1,025

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Motivation and inspiration keeps the fire ignited to share and create awesome worlds, and remember moments of joy. Seems like you despise hard work. And yeah, if everything was easy, things would lean towards the boring side.

There is a clear difference between hard work and tedious work (while work can be both hard and tedious at the same time), and that's what I mean. From what I can see, it would likely be very boring rather quickly, but that's my point of view.

Okay, your getting too technical. Relating bps with block amounts, oh my, i don't want to imagine that.
I will just hope it doesn't have any effect to players computers.

The more blocks you place and the faster you place them, the more chance you have to lag other players and potentially crash their game (resulting in their client automatically disconnecting from your room).
So yes, animations do have an effect on players.

Doodle

Formerly Hacked

From: USA

Joined: 2016-09-04

Posts: 226

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Motivation and inspiration keeps the fire ignited to share and create awesome worlds, and remember moments of joy. Seems like you despise hard work. And yeah, if everything was easy, things would lean towards the boring side.

There is a clear difference between hard work and tedious work (while work can be both hard and tedious at the same time), and that's what I mean.

Yeah, your right.

From what I can see, it would likely be very boring rather quickly, but that's my point of view.

Its worth the effort for a outstanding fun world. For me, creating animated mini-games is too fun to be boring.

The more blocks you place and the faster you place them, the more chance you have to lag other players and potentially crash their game (resulting in their client automatically disconnecting from your room).
So yes, animations do have an effect on players.

Oh i see.
This shouldn't be a problem as long as the owner adjusts.

John

Member

Joined: 2019-01-11

Posts: 2,009

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Emalton, is it available or private?

It's being worked on, I'll let you know when he's finished. He is almost done though.

Thank you.

He plans to release it on the 24th. (Two days from now.)

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Doodle

Formerly Hacked

From: USA

Joined: 2016-09-04

Posts: 226

Re: EE Animation (Revisited)

Thanks for your guys informative responses. Hopefully a animator bot will be released.
Peace