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#1 2017-04-22 19:37:59

Jesse
EE Admin
From: Antartica?
Joined: 2015-02-16
Posts: 67
Website

[Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Hey, a quick heads up to everyone.

We've recently become aware of an issue concerning fraud in relation to use of widely distributed client modifications.
We have at the very least so far, received 15 separate instances of reports which undoubtedly include messages emanating from these clients.

Understandably, it's nearly impossible for us to verify in-game fraud claims on an individual basis.
We don't know who committed any actions originating from your account, whether it be your little sister, your cat, or your modified client.

As a reminder, if you are using an unofficial client, you are placing your account at risk of phishing, impersonation, and/or fraud.

As the rules clearly indicate, by allowing access to your account, you accept the risk and take full responsibility for any actions on your account.
In addition, we do not allow the spreading of malicious content, not exclusive to phishing but also to clients which enable fraud.

Thank you, and stay safe!
Everybody Edits Moderation Team


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#2 2017-04-22 20:04:28

Abelysk
Formerly Kefka
From: No
Joined: 2015-02-16
Posts: 2,470
Website

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Hey guys don't download his EEperfect loader u can get hacked i think :^)


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#3 2017-04-22 20:05:55

maxi123
Member
From: code 1234 plz no troll
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 4,295

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?


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#4 2017-04-22 20:12:08

ninjasupeatsninja
Member
From: USA (hooray!)
Joined: 2015-04-05
Posts: 1,480
Website

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.


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#5 2017-04-22 20:32:47

hummerz5
Forum Mod
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 4,677

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

actually there's a rather simple and somewhat reliable method for that. Get the "client" direct from EE.com. Perhaps, if you fear MITM, you can use the secure sitebox swf link*

*disclaimer: I don't know if MITM is at all affected by SSL, but that is still securer

moral of the story: if you're aware that you're going somewhere else, you're taking security in your own hands


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#6 2017-04-23 17:56:35

AnatolyEE
Member
From: Unknown location
Joined: 2015-07-31
Posts: 2,808
Website

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

We could have a password which is hardcoded in the client which is required to move. We will still be able to connect bots and we will prevent the client remakes.

EDIT: Those clients have only the power to move, so it is a good suggestion

EDIT2: OP is only 2 woots farer then 2nd post. Let's bump 2nd post with woots!

Last edited by AnatolyEE (2017-04-23 17:57:52)

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#7 2017-04-23 18:51:35

Gosha
Banned
From: GLORY TO ARSTOTZKA
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 4,320

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

AnatolyEE wrote:
ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

We could have a password which is hardcoded in the client which is required to move. We will still be able to connect bots and we will prevent the client remakes.

EDIT: Those clients have only the power to move, so it is a good suggestion

EDIT2: OP is only 2 woots farer then 2nd post. Let's bump 2nd post with woots!

what is "power to move" i don't get it


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#8 2017-04-28 17:17:55

AnatolyEE
Member
From: Unknown location
Joined: 2015-07-31
Posts: 2,808
Website

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Gosha wrote:
AnatolyEE wrote:
ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

We could have a password which is hardcoded in the client which is required to move. We will still be able to connect bots and we will prevent the client remakes.

EDIT: Those clients have only the power to move, so it is a good suggestion

EDIT2: OP is only 2 woots farer then 2nd post. Let's bump 2nd post with woots!

what is "power to move" i don't get it

When we move on the clientwe use connection; "m". Remove the ability for bots to move with "m". But in the client one hardcoded password will be hidden which gives access to use "m", and with this, bots cannot move, but players on the main client can.

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#9 2017-04-28 17:24:44

HG
New Member
Joined: 2017-08-16
Posts: 1,278

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

AnatolyEE wrote:
Gosha wrote:
AnatolyEE wrote:
ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

We could have a password which is hardcoded in the client which is required to move. We will still be able to connect bots and we will prevent the client remakes.

EDIT: Those clients have only the power to move, so it is a good suggestion

EDIT2: OP is only 2 woots farer then 2nd post. Let's bump 2nd post with woots!

what is "power to move" i don't get it

When we move on the clientwe use connection; "m". Remove the ability for bots to move with "m". But in the client one hardcoded password will be hidden which gives access to use "m", and with this, bots cannot move, but players on the main client can.

What if you want to create a custom client, just like the current one, or even Unity, but you can't move because thanks to your fabulous idea, your client can't send "m".

There is no solid way of detecting a bot, and trying to limit their features is just useless.

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#10 2017-04-28 18:01:13

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

AnatolyEE wrote:

When we move on the clientwe use connection; "m". Remove the ability for bots to move with "m". But in the client one hardcoded password will be hidden which gives access to use "m", and with this, bots cannot move, but players on the main client can.

1. Sometimes it is good to have bots that can move, e.g. boss bots can move to somewhere near the boss so players can see messages without needing to look at chat
2. You cant just hide a password in the client code, people will easily be able to find it, if not in the code, then by monitoring the messages that are sent / recieved be the client

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-04-28 18:02:07)

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#11 2017-06-18 15:58:32

Notcarksss
Member
Joined: 2016-03-06
Posts: 82

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

AnatolyEE wrote:
ninjasupeatsninja wrote:
maxi123 wrote:

is there actually no way to detect whether the client is modified or official?

Nope.
Not easily at least.

We could have a password which is hardcoded in the client which is required to move. We will still be able to connect bots and we will prevent the client remakes.

EDIT: Those clients have only the power to move, so it is a good suggestion

EDIT2: OP is only 2 woots farer then 2nd post. Let's bump 2nd post with woots!

Um Dude you do realize that this is about client modifications not bots
if you wanna talk about bots, go to bots and programming smile


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#12 2017-06-18 16:59:37

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Notcarksss wrote:

Um Dude you do realize that this is about client modifications not bots
if you wanna talk about bots, go to bots and programming smile

There isn't much different between modified clients, remakes and bots, just the way that they are made / used, so this sort of applies to them all. A hardcoded password isn't a good way to do it of course, but some server-side movement validation would be good.

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-06-18 19:07:06)

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#13 2017-06-18 17:16:18

Gosha
Banned
From: GLORY TO ARSTOTZKA
Joined: 2015-03-15
Posts: 4,320

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

The only difference between bots and clients is the way of handling data recieved from the server


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#14 2017-06-19 13:02:41

peace
Banned
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 326

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

destroyer123 wrote:
Notcarksss wrote:

Um Dude you do realize that this is about client modifications not bots
if you wanna talk about bots, go to bots and programming smile

There isn't much different between modified clients, remakes and bots, just the way that they are made / used, so this sort of applies to them all. A hardcoded password isn't a good way to do it of course, but some server-side movement validation would be good.

desttroyer the way movements are clientsided is so you dont see a delay, if u press arrow the m packet will then be send to the sever so other users see you move too, if normlqa movements were seversided you would have a delay between pressing a key and moving


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#15 2017-06-19 13:10:42

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

peace men wrote:
destroyer123 wrote:
Notcarksss wrote:

Um Dude you do realize that this is about client modifications not bots
if you wanna talk about bots, go to bots and programming smile

There isn't much different between modified clients, remakes and bots, just the way that they are made / used, so this sort of applies to them all. A hardcoded password isn't a good way to do it of course, but some server-side movement validation would be good.

desttroyer the way movements are clientsided is so you dont see a delay, if u press arrow the m packet will then be send to the sever so other users see you move too, if normlqa movements were seversided you would have a delay between pressing a key and moving

I know that, but im sure there could be some way to check whether the player is where they should be, it might require some timestamps or something, but it should be possible

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#16 2017-07-08 18:00:05

benedani
Member
Joined: 2015-02-19
Posts: 53

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Maybe by simulating EE's physics on serverside?


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#17 2017-07-08 18:41:38

The 135 Guy
Member
From: My own lil' world.
Joined: 2015-08-04
Posts: 20

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

Adding an anti-cheat to the server for every world is a bad idea. Everyone who codes bots would either be forced to give them smart movement or remove their sending "m" completely, which could ruin some bots. And players who have terrible wifi *coughBTcough* might be prevented from sending "m" for a short period of time and would be picked up by the anti-cheat.

tl;dr: dont add anticheat. bad idea.


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#18 2017-07-08 19:57:29

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

The 135 Guy wrote:

Adding an anti-cheat to the server for every world is a bad idea. Everyone who codes bots would either be forced to give them smart movement or remove their sending "m" completely, which could ruin some bots. And players who have terrible wifi *coughBTcough* might be prevented from sending "m" for a short period of time and would be picked up by the anti-cheat.

tl;dr: dont add anticheat. bad idea.

There would be ways to avoid all these things, although it would be a lot of work

To avoid the bots thing you could just turn off the anti-cheat when you have edit, as that would pretty much allow bots in almost any situation you would want to use them, and prevent them in almost any situation you wouldnt.

To fix the bad internet thing, you could timestamp all the messages, so even if they take a while to send, the server still knows when they were sent (and therefore what tick to check). This would mean that all tick speeds would have to be synchronised though, which would definately be a lot of work, but would help massively, as well as removing the need for a lot of other messages (mostly the timed messages, e.g. doors, gates, and effects), reducing the bandwidth the game uses slightly, and helping with timing on switch machines (particularly multiplayer ones)

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-07-08 19:57:44)

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#19 2017-07-09 11:06:38

peace
Banned
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 326

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

also what about godmode?


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#20 2017-07-09 11:20:07

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

peace men wrote:

also what about godmode?

What about god mode?

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#21 2017-07-09 14:46:37

N1KF
Member
From: Yes
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 8,893
Website

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

destroyer123 wrote:
peace men wrote:

also what about godmode?

What about god mode?

thats what peace men just asked


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#22 2017-07-09 14:50:57

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

N1KF wrote:
destroyer123 wrote:
peace men wrote:

also what about godmode?

What about god mode?

thats what peace men just asked

I mean what was he asking about it (just realised this is a tone of voice thing, so wasnt obvious in text)
As in 'what are you asking about god mode'

Last edited by destroyer123 (2017-07-09 14:51:49)

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#23 2017-07-09 16:17:44

peace
Banned
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 326

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

i mean would godmode be cheating?


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#24 2017-07-09 17:04:27

destroyer123
Member
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 920

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

peace men wrote:

i mean would godmode be cheating?

When? Using god mode when you have god mode wouldnt be, it would though if you are using that hacked client 'god mode'.
If there was a hacked client detector that simulated EE physics, it would basically pick up any time people seem to jump around on other peoples screen, e.g. when they have 'fly hacks' on, or have different physics.

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#25 2017-07-10 18:50:39

peace
Banned
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 326

Re: [Notice] A safety reminder concerning client modifications.

destroyer123 wrote:
peace men wrote:

i mean would godmode be cheating?

When? Using god mode when you have god mode wouldnt be, it would though if you are using that hacked client 'god mode'.
If there was a hacked client detector that simulated EE physics, it would basically pick up any time people seem to jump around on other peoples screen, e.g. when they have 'fly hacks' on, or have different physics.

i mean they say the cheat detector wouldnt work if u have edi tbut they diddnt mentioned anything about godmode so i was wondering if that would be cjeating or not


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