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#1 2017-05-12 19:46:04

Nebula
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From: Minderia Forum
Joined: 2018-04-25
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Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Here you can read about it: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel … ty-updates

It has just happend 3 days ago...


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#2 2017-05-12 20:11:09, last edited by capasha (2017-05-12 20:12:59)

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,820

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

This doesn't mean your computer will be more insecure. Like me and a lot of other guys we use common sense when using a computer.
I could make a thread how to stay safe with any Windows OS. I still use Windows 7 and I don't see a reason to upgrade it.

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#3 2017-05-12 20:30:03

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

capasha wrote:

This doesn't mean your computer will be more insecure. Like me and a lot of other guys we use common sense when using a computer.

I see this a lot

so much

but I honestly never expected it from you. I really hope I'm misunderstanding you or here. You know about exploits, right? If something isn't getting security updates anymore, especially something is vital as an OS, it's time to get off and run for your life. Common sense can't save you when all it takes for your computer to get owned is for you to glance at a font in some web page. Common sense can't save you from exploits, unless your common sense includes (and it should) security updates. Windows 7 is still getting security updates until 2020, Windows 10 RTM isn't as of 3 days ago.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#4 2017-05-12 21:08:53

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,436

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:

Windows 7 is still getting security updates until 2020,

wow that sounds cool
>tmw i have security updates disabled on my windows 7 completely and its been running fine for quite a long while now


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#5 2017-05-12 21:23:58

Different55
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Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

maxi123 wrote:

its been running fine for quite a long while now

maxi123 wrote:

I haven't noticed that I've been mining bitcoin for the chinese yet

maxi123 wrote:

nobody has used my credit card details that they stole yet

maxi123 wrote:

the timebomb on my computer hasn't hit its detonation date yet

maxi123 wrote:

nobody's got around to checking out all the info that my keylogger has sent them yet

maxi123 wrote:

I joined a botnet because it makes me feel like I'm a part of something greater. and because I haven't noticed it's there yet.

Not every virus and bit of malware is trying to be big and loud and scam dumb people out of money. Some of them do their jobs better silently so that you don't know they're there, because if you do know they're there you might try to remove them.

And who knows, maybe you are completely clean right now. Maybe you went and got it on unprotected with 50 hookers and didn't catch anything. that doesn't make it a good idea to tell others to do the same, and it doesn't mean you should go for number 51. That font exploit I mentioned? It was fixed way back in 2013. But people are still using old exploits out there because they rely on people who don't have security patches installed. They rely on critical, game changing bugs that have been fixed for nearly half a decade because so many people decide that common sense is too much of a hassle. Just, why even leave yourself vulnerable like that?


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#6 2017-05-12 21:32:31, last edited by hummerz5 (2017-05-12 21:46:34)

hummerz5
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From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,795

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:

Just, why even leave yourself vulnerable like that?

for me (back whenever) it was because microsoft was pushing w10 and I didn't want it

edit: I should clarify that's no longer a thing because w10 got me anyway but I digress

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#7 2017-05-12 21:47:56

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

I'd say "You can tell MS to go screw themselves while still getting security patches" but you can't. They crossed about 5 lines back then when they pushed another set of W10 ads as a security patch. All I can say to that is "Maybe don't buy your OS from the people who have shown they have 0 morals and will resort to any means they have to get their way" but that's not a fix.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#8 2017-05-12 21:53:13

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,820

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:
capasha wrote:

This doesn't mean your computer will be more insecure. Like me and a lot of other guys we use common sense when using a computer.

I see this a lot

so much

but I honestly never expected it from you. I really hope I'm misunderstanding you or here. You know about exploits, right? If something isn't getting security updates anymore, especially something is vital as an OS, it's time to get off and run for your life. Common sense can't save you when all it takes for your computer to get owned is for you to glance at a font in some web page. Common sense can't save you from exploits, unless your common sense includes (and it should) security updates. Windows 7 is still getting security updates until 2020, Windows 10 RTM isn't as of 3 days ago.

I have disabled auto updates on Windows 7. I don't use Anti-Virus either and I know I'm not infected.
I use a Virtual Desktop and Sandboxie when I want to do anything. My OS on my Virtual Desktop is Windows 7 with auto updates turned off.
I know some other peoples that have their auto updates for Windows 7 turned off too. Are they infected yet? No.

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#9 2017-05-12 22:32:29

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

capasha wrote:

I know I'm not infected.

capasha wrote:

Are they infected yet? No.

You know this because the AVs you don't have installed told you so? Or are you with maxi and you just haven't noticed that you, your personal info, and your computer are now belong to the boogeyman? Like I told him, the viruses that aren't trying to extort money out of you have no reason to announce their presence. They're better off laying low. They can slip themselves inside another running process or heck, just naming themselves svchost.exe or chrome.exe would probably do the trick. It's seriously blowing my mind that you're running stuff in sandboxes and virtual machines then neglect to install security patches.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#10 2017-05-12 23:23:10

Saturn
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Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:
capasha wrote:

I know I'm not infected.

capasha wrote:

Are they infected yet? No.

You know this because the AVs you don't have installed told you so? Or are you with maxi and you just haven't noticed that you, your personal info, and your computer are now belong to the boogeyman? Like I told him, the viruses that aren't trying to extort money out of you have no reason to announce their presence. They're better off laying low. They can slip themselves inside another running process or heck, just naming themselves svchost.exe or chrome.exe would probably do the trick. It's seriously blowing my mind that you're running stuff in sandboxes and virtual machines then neglect to install security patches.

Speaking of svchost.exe I got a annoying trojan that runs with that Programm. Can't seem to delete it xD I end the process its running on but it keeps restarting. Hiding the file also doesnt work. The trojan keeps running every time I use my PC. Thank god its on my old W7 and not my New one.

#11 2017-05-12 23:34:08

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,436

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:

I haven't noticed that I've been mining bitcoin for the chinese yet

maybe? but i would notice that since bitcoin mining is very productivity hungry. or i haven't noticed because it barely impacts the productivity, in such case why should i bother at all? does it do any other harm to my laptop?

Different55 wrote:

nobody has used my credit card details that they stole yet

bruh i dont even have credit card details on my laptop

Different55 wrote:

the timebomb on my computer hasn't hit its detonation date yet

ok ill just
that wasnt serious obviously

Different55 wrote:

nobody's got around to checking out all the info that my keylogger has sent them yet

afaik the main purpose of keylogs is to get your passwords? the one and only time an account of mine was "hacked" was like 7 years ago when i literally gave my account data away by using it to log in on a game cheats website (dont criticize a 10 year old's actions) and on that account my password consisted of just 4 digits (again, dont criticize a 10 year old). since then i saw many people lose their accounts in various "magic" ways but never ever had i lost any single account of mine.

Different55 wrote:

I joined a botnet because it makes me feel like I'm a part of something greater. and because I haven't noticed it's there yet.

hmm could you elaborate on that


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#12 2017-05-12 23:48:51

Different55
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Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

maxi123 wrote:

or i haven't noticed because it barely impacts the productivity, in such case why should i bother at all?

are you

are you being serious

that uses a lot of power and makes your battery life tank, even if it didn't why would you ever not mind if a malicious third party is in control of your computer?

maxi123 wrote:

ok ill just
that wasnt serious obviously

It was. Not a literal bomb. There are plenty of viruses and malware that sit tight until a specified date or a specified command, and then they snap out of sleeper agent mode and do bad things.

maxi123 wrote:

afaik the main purpose of keylogs is to get your passwords? the one and only time an account of mine was "hacked" was like 7 years ago when i literally gave my account data away by using it to log in on a game cheats website (dont criticize a 10 year old's actions) and on that account my password consisted of just 4 digits (again, dont criticize a 10 year old). since then i saw many people lose their accounts in various "magic" ways but never ever had i lost any single account of mine.

You think you're the only person they've got on the list? You're just one of thousands of users who have left the door wide open to anyone who wants to come on in. That's a lot of passwords to sift through. Just having a keylogger doesn't mean all your accounts are instantly snatched away. Why would they do that anyway, by laying low for just a little while longer they might get to see a juicier password.

maxi123 wrote:

hmm could you elaborate on that

Most DDoSes you hear about are caused by users that neglect their security updates. Their computers are hijacked and turned into a massive army of mindless zombies, willing to follow any command.

Ultimately, why would you *ever* not want security updates? There is no benefit to not having them unless you count "joined a botnet, got my service shut down by my ISP for it" as a benefit.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#13 2017-05-13 00:57:54

TaskManager
Formerly maxi123
From: i really should update this
Joined: 2015-03-01
Posts: 8,436

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:

that uses a lot of power and makes your battery life tank, even if it didn't why would you ever not mind if a malicious third party is in control of your computer?

if it has close to none impact on the system then it wont use much additional power, otherwise i would actually notice it's presence.
though, are you assuming that i dont care about anything thats happening on my computer at all?

Different55 wrote:

It was. Not a literal bomb. There are plenty of viruses and malware that sit tight until a specified date or a specified command, and then they snap out of sleeper agent mode and do bad things.

well i've been running this OS with no updates for 3 years straight now. must be a pretty slow bomb

Different55 wrote:

You think you're the only person they've got on the list? You're just one of thousands of users who have left the door wide open to anyone who wants to come on in. That's a lot of passwords to sift through. Just having a keylogger doesn't mean all your accounts are instantly snatched away. Why would they do that anyway, by laying low for just a little while longer they might get to see a juicier password.

again, 3 to 7 years should be enough for them to get to my accounts

Different55 wrote:

Most DDoSes you hear about are caused by users that neglect their security updates. Their computers are hijacked and turned into a massive army of mindless zombies, willing to follow any command.

i dont think i ever encountered that on my computer, what could be the "symptoms"?

how did we get to this though? you dont think i mindlessly download random **** all the time without giving a crap about viruses, do you?


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#14 2017-05-13 01:12:49, last edited by Different55 (2017-05-13 01:13:27)

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

maxi123 wrote:

what could be the "symptoms"?

nothing. you don't get symptoms from contributing to a massive wave of internet traffic. you're a drop in the ocean, you'll barely notice a thing.

maxi123 wrote:

though, are you assuming that i dont care about anything thats happening on my computer at all?

If you don't get security updates, that's honestly the only conclusion you can come to. Either you don't care, you are actively seeking out bad things, or have no idea what you're walking into.

maxi123 wrote:

how did we get to this though? you dont think i mindlessly download random **** all the time without giving a crap about viruses, do you?

that kind of virus is the kind that shows up loud and proud. The kind of people who mindlessly download crap is the kind of person who essentially passes step one of finding someone stupid enough to scam. First post I made in the topic:

Different55 wrote:
capasha wrote:

This doesn't mean your computer will be more insecure. Like me and a lot of other guys we use common sense when using a computer.

I see this a lot

so much

but I honestly never expected it from you. I really hope I'm misunderstanding you or here. You know about exploits, right? If something isn't getting security updates anymore, especially something is vital as an OS, it's time to get off and run for your life. Common sense can't save you when all it takes for your computer to get owned is for you to glance at a font in some web page. Common sense can't save you from exploits, unless your common sense includes (and it should) security updates. Windows 7 is still getting security updates until 2020, Windows 10 RTM isn't as of 3 days ago.

You don't need to do *anything wrong.* "Common sense" can't save you when all it takes for your computer to be owned by an attacker is for you to accidentally glance at a font. Or misclick and land on a page that takes advantage of an exploit in some obscure javascript api in your browser. Just looking at a text document can screw you over. Not even a big scary one with macros, just a dumb RTF. Sometimes all you need to do to get slammed is be connected to the internet. This isn't "I accidentally invited a vampire into my home" it's "someone noticed that if you tap on the side of the lock two times while pressing in on the door handle, it pops right open." More and more exploits like that are being found, and more and more people are looking for anyone who hasn't fixed their broken locks.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#15 2017-05-13 03:10:27

Evilbunny
Member
From: The bottom of my heart
Joined: 2015-02-25
Posts: 1,276

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

What makes somebody think "hmm security updates, let's disable those," like what why. Diff is right here, it's not worth risking all your stuff, especially because you aren't getting anything in reward for your risk.


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#16 2017-05-13 07:53:04

capasha
Member
Joined: 2015-02-21
Posts: 3,820

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:
capasha wrote:

I know I'm not infected.

capasha wrote:

Are they infected yet? No.

You know this because the AVs you don't have installed told you so? Or are you with maxi and you just haven't noticed that you, your personal info, and your computer are now belong to the boogeyman? Like I told him, the viruses that aren't trying to extort money out of you have no reason to announce their presence. They're better off laying low. They can slip themselves inside another running process or heck, just naming themselves svchost.exe or chrome.exe would probably do the trick. It's seriously blowing my mind that you're running stuff in sandboxes and virtual machines then neglect to install security patches.

Since when can you trust AVs? The most Avs just use definations to detect old viruses. I use a virtual machine and sandbox because of this. I don't use Windows update because they add **** to my computer that I don't need.
And I would find out if there is a process that is suspected. Like I said before, I don't use my own computer for Internet. I know there is exploits for Virtual Box right now so I'm curious.

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#17 2017-05-13 09:31:38

Onjit
Member
Joined: 2015-02-15
Posts: 8,249
Website

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

i havent turned my computer off in 51 days and windows is telling me to restart for an update but i dont want to

am i a bad person


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#18 2017-05-13 12:51:07

Saturn
Guest

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Onjit wrote:

i havent turned my computer off in 51 days and windows is telling me to restart for an update but i dont want to

am i a bad person

No.

#19 2017-05-13 13:33:03, last edited by Different55 (2017-05-13 13:34:58)

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Onjit wrote:

i havent turned my computer off in 51 days and windows is telling me to restart for an update but i dont want to

am i a bad person

literally hitler

capasha wrote:

Since when can you trust AVs? The most Avs just use definations to detect old viruses.

You're right, AVs have no use case and obviously do more harm than good.

just

what

capasha wrote:

And I would find out if there is a process that is suspected.

How, you going to scan every process's memory by hand? You know there are tools that could automate that, they know of a larger range of malware than you could hope, they're called AVs, and they're great at detecting threats that should have been long eliminated by ancient security patches. Like seriously take a stroll through the CVEs some time, virtual machines might protect you from what's inside but plenty of exploits come from outside. And like you said VMs aren't perfect. Take a look at this year's Pwn2Own, they went from being inside Microsoft Edge, escaped that sandbox, escalated their way into the kernel, and then escaped VMWare to get complete control over the host. Not really anything you can do about that except keep *everything* up to date, including your AV definitions so that these issues are fixed when they're discovered. Yeah, they need to be discovered first but that's as good as it gets. Tossing out the whole, very very beneficial thing because it's not absolutely perfect is ridiculous. And seriously, turning off Windows updates? Just let it install your security patches, Microsoft for the moment has stopped trying to shove Win10 down your throat. And mainstream support for W7 has ended, there will be no new feature updates ever, just bug fixes. Turn those updates on.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#20 2017-05-13 16:06:13

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,902
Website

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

capasha wrote:

Since when can you trust AVs? The most Avs just use definations to detect old viruses. I use a virtual machine and sandbox because of this. I don't use Windows update because they add **** to my computer that I don't need.
And I would find out if there is a process that is suspected. Like I said before, I don't use my own computer for Internet. I know there is exploits for Virtual Box right now so I'm curious.

I don't know about other AVs but Avast doesn't just let anything through that it doesn't recognise...
Anything that could be a virus is checked, and if it isn't already known then it undergoes some sort of deeper testing where they determine if it is a virus before you run it
I know this from experience as it's tried to check some versions of my bots before I run them (I only let it actually run once because I didn't notice that you could cancel it)

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#21 2017-05-13 17:41:14

Bimps
Member
From: michigan
Joined: 2015-02-08
Posts: 4,940

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Different55 wrote:

Just, why even leave yourself vulnerable like that?

i cant afford a new pc


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#22 2017-05-13 22:17:18, last edited by Different55 (2017-05-13 22:25:33)

Different55
Forum Admin
Joined: 2015-02-07
Posts: 16,082

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Friendly reminder that people who didn't update caused the massive flood of ransomware that managed to knock out hospitals and phone companies and universities and banks yesterday and today. These are just the big targets that you hear about. Don't worry, just as many little people were affected. And the exploits used by this wormy ransomware that enabled it to spread like an uncontrollable wildfire were fixed back in March.

Update your systems.


"Sometimes failing a leap of faith is better than inching forward"
- ShinsukeIto

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#23 2017-05-13 23:04:33

Nameless
Formerly HG
Joined: 2017-08-16
Posts: 2,222

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

That's why I use a free, open-source and considerably safe Linux distribution: Ubuntu.

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#24 2017-05-14 00:19:49, last edited by LukeM (2017-05-14 00:24:50)

LukeM
Dev Team
From: England
Joined: 2016-06-03
Posts: 2,902
Website

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

Bimps wrote:
Different55 wrote:

Just, why even leave yourself vulnerable like that?

i cant afford a new pc

You dont need a new PC, just the latest version of your OS

HG wrote:

That's why I use a free, open-source and considerably safe Linux distribution: Ubuntu.

You still need to keep updated...
If I remember correctly, there was some bug at some point which meant you could press backspace x times to log in to any linux computer, which they obviously fixed within hours of finding it, but if you dont keep updated then you could still have bugs like that

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#25 2017-05-14 00:46:26

hummerz5
Member
From: wait I'm not a secret mod huh
Joined: 2015-08-10
Posts: 5,795

Re: Rest in Peace, Windows 10 RTM (Release to manufacturing)

HG wrote:

That's why I use a free, open-source and considerably safe Linux distribution: Ubuntu.

true, but insecurities are still insecurities. Your "security" is in part through obscurity. Agreed, there are probably considerable intense OS-level security optimizations I don't understand (but I question if anyone here really does) that Ubuntu has over Windows

also yes. But isn't that ransomware simply accidentally infecting all those important things? I mean, not so much accident but more incidentally. ?

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