When do the rules matter?

Zoey2070 · 2016-10-02 08:37:59

I'm really confused about how the rules on EE work, because I've experienced some pretty conflicting stuff. Sorry, this is really long but it needs fully explained.

I was in an EE level on Thursday and had this interaction, which was apparently because of Master1 being demodded:

14:13
(this screenshot, uncensored, was sent with a report)
(also this dude doesn't remember ever speaking to me prior to this, so this was completely out of the blue)

14:36
(this screenshot, uncensored, was sent with a report)

14:45
(this screenshot, uncensored, was sent with a report)

at this point, he gets banned for two days, but of course this is EE so it doesn't end there.

i probably reported him a few more times, several alt accounts, etc.

he insults me a few more times, and then says "soz" because he believed by insulting me, he wouldn't get items transferred to his account.

15:01
ah, weird...

so like ~3 alts, and a lot of shenanigans later, this happens:

17:19

This is weird because I thought it was pretty clear cut and dry flaming? Clearly Nou disagrees.

When I asked Loot, he said he was on l00t, then lo0t, then l0ot, and that he most certainly wasn't unbanned.

Either way, I've compared this name with my ownand zoomed in so you can see the difference. On the userlist, o's and 0's are indistinguishable, but in the chat they're clearly both O's. So he's definitely unbanned after Benje definitely banned him.

So then, Friday happens, I join a level, he's there on his main. He asks Processor to reban him in #eeforums. He ban evades some more (including an account I'm pretty sure I reported for ban evasion before he was unbanned), flames me some more, gets banned longer, and I wake today to the news that he's permabanned by NVD.

This is from Friday:

14:14 <+loot> so you're gonna call out nou?
14:14 <+Zoey2070> yes loot
14:15 <+loot> because he unbanned someone who has supported ee financially for years?

So this kind of implies he was unbanned because of the aforementioned 200 dollars he's spent?

Basically, I'm really confused because I thought the rules applied to everyone no matter where it happened, but given the whole Master1 thing and now this, I'm starting to wonder if the rules are an inside joke that no one's told me about, and maybe I've been in the wrong the entire time? Do the rules not apply if you spend lots of money?? Do they not apply if you beg for an admin to unban you?? Do they not apply if you're friends with moderators?? Do you just have to time your begging right? In which circumstances do they or do they not apply? I'd really like some clarification.

Can I just flame whomever I want as hard as I want, throw cash at EE, and plead for forgiveness to get unbanned?

Is calling someone a **** five times, a ****, an autist, a retard, a ****, a ****, and told telling them to commit suicide not considered flaming, seeing as he got unbanned after being banned for doing those things?

I'm so confused and I think the rules need to be clarified in case I'm misunderstanding something or completely overlooked something, in which case, I'm sorry for being completely oblivious about the rules.

32OrtonEdge32dh, Onjit, Luka504, Gosha, MartenM, Pingohits, mrjawapa, hummerz5, Evilbunny, TaskManager, loot, N1KF, kubapolish

Luka504 · 2016-10-02 09:25:34

100% agreed.
Personally I can tolerate these type of people but the rules exist for a reason. Without law and order there is only chaos left.

loot · 2016-10-02 11:43:12

Pingohits

Anatoly · 2016-10-02 11:53:59

loot wrote:

Does the smiley mean that you stop or continue doubled?

Nou · 2016-10-02 16:46:42

I already explained this on Skype but I'll tell you here as well.

It was at the end of a 15h workday, was tired of the whining, I unbanned him to make it stop. Clearly, this was dumb, it's what sleep deprivation does.

The whole money thing is just silly. I have no idea who buys what, you (both Zoey and loot) are dragging in that argument, not me.

This is weird because I thought it was pretty clear cut and dry flaming? Clearly Nou disagrees.

When did I disagree? He deserves the ban, I explicitly said that too. I was tired as hell and just wanted people to get off my back. I derped, what else do you want?

Koya, Processor, King Kratz, TSF14

hummerz5 · 2016-10-02 17:03:18

Nou wrote:

what else do you want?

What you've said here is great.

A statement for the future would wrap this up IMO: Are there steps you can take to prevent this? Or maybe just tell everyone that it won't? I mean, he can't be the only person to complain at length

Nou · 2016-10-02 17:40:34

hummerz5 wrote:

Nou wrote:
what else do you want?
What you've said here is great.
A statement for the future would wrap this up IMO: Are there steps you can take to prevent this? Or maybe just tell everyone that it won't? I mean, he can't be the only person to complain at length

It's a one-off, not a structural problem. Of course he's not the only one to complain at length, but he has me on Skype, others don't, plus I don't have 15h workdays every time. Preventing it is easy: don't accept people on Skype and don't overrule others.

hummerz5, Koya

Nebula · 2016-10-02 17:46:47

Srna wrote:

petition to make master1 a mod again

he got resigned, he can do it whatever he want.

Freckleface · 2016-10-02 18:04:59

Apparently you already got him banned before? And that is the reason he is mad at you. This is what a friend told me so I dont know if its true.

loot · 2016-10-02 19:09:50

Freckleface wrote:

Apparently you already got him banned before? And that is the reason he is mad at you. This is what a friend told me so I dont know if its true.

what friend gangster gangster

Zoey2070 · 2016-10-02 20:13:51

Freckleface wrote:

Apparently you already got him banned before? And that is the reason he is mad at you. This is what a friend told me so I dont know if its true.

The only time I've seen Loot in ee at all prior to Thursday is when I was playing campaigns with Processor on alts and he kept joining; he doesn't even remember that. He told me the reason he was mad at me was because Master1 got demodded.

Nou wrote:

I already explained this on Skype but I'll tell you here as well.
It was at the end of a 15h workday, was tired of the whining, I unbanned him to make it stop. Clearly, this was dumb, it's what sleep deprivation does.
The whole money thing is just silly. I have no idea who buys what, you (both Zoey and loot) are dragging in that argument, not me.
This is weird because I thought it was pretty clear cut and dry flaming? Clearly Nou disagrees.
When did I disagree? He deserves the ban, I explicitly said that too. I was tired as hell and just wanted people to get off my back. I derped, what else do you want?

You implied a disagreement when you unbanned someone who told me to commit suicide. I'll be really honest: I can't empathize with your situation of being sleep deprived and working 15 hours, because I have no job, but I'd say it's way easier to just say "no" and block someone than to do all this work to unban them. Yes, I realize I'm causing you more stress, and I really don't want that, honestly, but I also would really like dumb stuff like this to stop happening. To me, you have no real excuse. You're the owner of the game, your word is final, you should be what people look up to for staff purposes.

Besides, what kind of example does that set? Really? To me, it says that no matter what people say about how they'll improve moderation, how they'll do better etc, it doesn't matter, because there will always be some other justification for allowing stuff like this to continue, some other excuse. Whether it be you're tired or you're sick or you really don't feel like doing what needs to be done or they're your friend or you want to do something with them or whatever, it's always more excuses. I was told to report things. I was told that that's an okay thing for me to do and I'm not any weaker for it. I report them. They get banned. But only sometimes. And then they get unbanned because they happened to catch you at just the right time. That means that while you say you agree that he should be banned, your actions say something completely different.

What does that say to people who break the rules? That it's acceptable and if you try hard enough, then people will just give in because they don't want to deal with you.

Lictor666 made around 20 different alts over like a week. He was incredibly persistent. We banned every single account. Two teenagers. Maybe three. I put eye gore in someone's signature. I'm not that great of a mod; there was a vote to get me demodded. Yet I've never unbanned someone who should be rightfully banned. All you had to do was not unban someone. You had to take action to mess up. You made a choice to mess up, tired or not.

I can't say you should be demodded or anything because you're the owner of the game and your word is final, but I legitimately expected better from you.

Nou wrote:

It's a one-off, not a structural problem... Preventing it is easy: don't accept people on Skype and don't overrule others.

Several one-offs does a structural problem make.

And apparently preventing it is not so easy.

edit: and no one's still answered the actual question

mrjawapa, Napakeun, 32OrtonEdge32dh

Processor · 2016-10-02 21:45:55

Hey Zoey2070,

We're sorry you were insulted and that it took our staff team so long to deal with the issue. To be frank, we admit that we could have done better and are sorry for the distress it has caused you. I can reassure you that loot is now banned for an appropriate duration of time and we have now resumed to moderate with the quality you expect from us. Of course we have undertaken steps to prevent this from happening in the future, such as educating our staff through internal discussions. I hope you will have a peaceful time playing EE in the future and make sure to keep reporting those who give you a hard time.

Best regards,
Processor

Muftwin

Zoey2070 · 2016-10-02 21:54:43

Processor wrote:

Hey Zoey2070,
We're sorry you were insulted and that it took our staff team so long to deal with the issue. To be frank, we admit that we could have done better and are sorry for the distress it has caused you. I can reassure you that loot is now banned for an appropriate duration of time and we have now resumed to moderate with the quality you expect from us. Of course we have undertaken steps to prevent this from happening in the future, such as educating our staff through internal discussions. I hope you will have a peaceful time playing EE in the future and make sure to keep reporting those who give you a hard time.
Best regards,
Processor

"We're sorry you were insulted"

Okay, so you're not sorry that, y'know, someone was unbanned when they shouldn't have been? You're sorry that I got insulted? If you're going to try to apologize, maybe try doing this instead, and not saying "oh, we're sorry you were called a **** and told to commit suicide! But we're not sorry for our OWN actions!"

"sorry for the distress it called you" and still not apologizing for what was actually done.

"we have now resumed to moderate with the quality you expect from us"

Let me make this clear:

I have absolutely no expectations from the moderation team anymore. You've proven time and time again that the rules clearly don't matter; not once has anyone actually responded to my actual question: when do the rules matter?

"make sure to keep reporting those who give you a hard time" right... so they can get unbanned if they plead hard enough. Okay.

pretty cool when u get mr. 19-year-old professional processor to write an apology letter on behalf of 28-year-old let-me-ruin-the-reputation-of-a-17-year-old nou instead of him doing it himself :) :) :)

mrjawapa, 32OrtonEdge32dh

Schlog · 2016-10-02 22:15:01

you unbanned him for something i got permabanned for

good job admins you guys should stop moderating entirely

Zoey2070, mrjawapa, capasha, Slabdrill, MBlood, TSF14

Nou · 2016-10-03 14:41:47

Zoey2070 wrote:

You implied a disagreement when you unbanned someone who told me to commit suicide. I'll be really honest: I can't empathize with your situation of being sleep deprived and working 15 hours, because I have no job, but I'd say it's way easier to just say "no" and block someone than to do all this work to unban them. Yes, I realize I'm causing you more stress, and I really don't want that, honestly, but I also would really like dumb stuff like this to stop happening. To me, you have no real excuse. You're the owner of the game, your word is final, you should be what people look up to for staff purposes.
Besides, what kind of example does that set? Really? To me, it says that no matter what people say about how they'll improve moderation, how they'll do better etc, it doesn't matter, because there will always be some other justification for allowing stuff like this to continue, some other excuse. Whether it be you're tired or you're sick or you really don't feel like doing what needs to be done or they're your friend or you want to do something with them or whatever, it's always more excuses. I was told to report things. I was told that that's an okay thing for me to do and I'm not any weaker for it. I report them. They get banned. But only sometimes. And then they get unbanned because they happened to catch you at just the right time. That means that while you say you agree that he should be banned, your actions say something completely different.
What does that say to people who break the rules? That it's acceptable and if you try hard enough, then people will just give in because they don't want to deal with you.
Lictor666 made around 20 different alts over like a week. He was incredibly persistent. We banned every single account. Two teenagers. Maybe three. I put eye gore in someone's signature. I'm not that great of a mod; there was a vote to get me demodded. Yet I've never unbanned someone who should be rightfully banned. All you had to do was not unban someone. You had to take action to mess up. You made a choice to mess up, tired or not.
I can't say you should be demodded or anything because you're the owner of the game and your word is final, but I legitimately expected better from you.

I didn't consider (or knew) the severity of loot's actions at the time. I didn't consider anything. That's unprofessional and yes blocking him would have been better, you're right. It's easy to lose someone's trust, hard to build it. I do hope we can prove ourselves in the end.

Zoey2070 wrote:

edit: and no one's still answered the actual question

To answer your question "When do the rules matter?" obviously the answer is "always", which clearly hasn't been the case. Doesn't mean we'll stop trying though

Zoey2070 wrote:

pretty cool when u get mr. 19-year-old professional processor to write an apology letter on behalf of 28-year-old let-me-ruin-the-reputation-of-a-17-year-old nou instead of him doing it himself :) :) :)

I never asked proc to write that and you know it. I've always faced discussions head-on and admitted mistakes when I made them (previous post, cases in point). No idea why you would bring this up except to stir things up.

Ninja wrote:

you unbanned him for something i got permabanned for
good job admins you guys should stop moderating entirely

I didn't ban you, Processor did. This is just a false comparison. Plus, he got permabanned in the end as well.

---

Double post, but I haven't addressed this on a personal level yet. So far I've just been trying to explain things, thinking about msyself, but haven't actually apologized, and I should.

I'm sorry for unbanning someone who harassed you. I don't want you to feel unwelcome but I didn't consider your feelings in this regard, so for that too, I'm sorry.

I get you have little faith left in the moderation right now, but I do hope you and I can patch things up.

Yes someone had to point this out to me, so don't be surprised of the timing of this post. I just hope that doesn't make my apology less genuine.

Processor

XxAtillaxX · 2016-10-03 18:43:20

Now then, who is going to offer the blood sacrifice Zoey requires in order to feel content with the outcome of this outcry?

Tomahawk

Zoey2070 · 2016-10-03 19:31:27

Nou wrote:

I never asked proc to write that and you know it

i actually didn't.

anyways, thank you for finally actually apologizing for what you did i guess. i dunno, it just always feels like you're hiding behind excuses etc for everything.

either way i still don't really trust the moderation, but thanks.

imma just close this now i guess cuz the discussion can't really go anywhere else

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2016-10-02 08:37:59

When do the rules matter?

#2 2016-10-02 09:25:34

Re: When do the rules matter?

#3 2016-10-02 11:43:12

Re: When do the rules matter?

#4 2016-10-02 11:53:59

Re: When do the rules matter?

#5 2016-10-02 16:46:42

Re: When do the rules matter?

#6 2016-10-02 17:03:18, last edited by hummerz5 (2016-10-02 17:25:33)

Re: When do the rules matter?

#7 2016-10-02 17:40:34

Re: When do the rules matter?

#8 2016-10-02 17:46:47

Re: When do the rules matter?

#9 2016-10-02 18:04:59

Re: When do the rules matter?

#10 2016-10-02 19:09:50

Re: When do the rules matter?

#11 2016-10-02 20:13:51, last edited by Zoey2070 (2016-10-02 20:49:38)

Re: When do the rules matter?

#12 2016-10-02 21:45:55

Re: When do the rules matter?

#13 2016-10-02 21:54:43, last edited by Zoey2070 (2016-10-02 22:04:36)

Re: When do the rules matter?

#14 2016-10-02 22:15:01

Re: When do the rules matter?

#15 2016-10-03 14:41:47, last edited by Processor (2016-10-03 16:46:04)

Re: When do the rules matter?

#16 2016-10-03 18:43:20

Re: When do the rules matter?

#17 2016-10-03 19:31:27

Re: When do the rules matter?

Board footer