Time Bubble Paradox

Pingohits · 2016-10-02 16:09:46

Let's say, hypothetically, there was a city within an enormous spherical bubble. The bubble is indestructible and cannot be moved.

However, this is not a normal city. It breaks all known laws of physics, as anything within the bubble is a minute into the future.

For the sake of an example, pretend Billy throws a ball into the bubble. Once the ball enters the bubble, it instantly teleports to the place it will be in a minute. Below is a helpful diagram:

However, this brings up a few points.

As everything in the bubble is a minute into the future, people inside the bubble will see everything outside the bubble is a minute into the past. By this logic, it is possible to walk into the bubble, but impossible to walk out, as once the person is out, he will be in the position a minute before, which was in the bubble.

This is what I call a "Time Bubble Paradox". When exiting the bubble, you will be in the destination a minute in the past. But the destination you were in a minute in the past was in the bubble, so how would you successfully exit the city?

If one within the bubble threw a ball like Billy did, the ball would end up in the place it was a minute before it was thrown.

This also brings up a question:
What would happen to objects that lie on the border, between the city and the outside? What would happen if a person were to extend his hand outside of the bubble, but retain their body within? Will their hand split apart and end up in it's respective place in the past, or does it only work when an object is completely on the outside?

Hypothetically, let's say the second theory works. In that case, it IS possible to escape the bubble, as one simply needs to step as far as they can go to the outside, but have some sort of matter attached to them be within the bubble. Then they wait 1 minute. As such, they can freely walk about to the outside, since a minute before they were on the border.

Questions? Thoughts? Disagreements?

note: there is an inconsistency in regards to "time" itself. This is why I made the city break all known laws of physics. Time inside the bubble acts differently. They both technically act in real time, but are separate when on a timeline.

Sensei1, kubapolish

hummerz5 · 2016-10-02 16:17:55

Well on your hand vs body scenario, you can extend that to all things. Zeno(?)'s paradox about the arrow standing still. If you take a person walking through the barrier, theoretically you could divide down the time to where every atom crosses the barrier at a unique time. So, whatever you conclude about the hand would apply to every subdivision of the person, even if they don't just sit still. They'd become an infinite number of pieces.

Also. You said one direction of travel isn't possible because they'd have two of themselves, right? What about having zero of yourself, going the other direction. How is that OK?

TaskManager · 2016-10-02 20:13:26

Pingohits wrote:

This is what I call a "Time Bubble Paradox". When exiting the bubble, you will be in the destination a minute in the past. But the destination you were in a minute in the past was in the bubble, so how would you successfully exit the city?

the way i look at it, when you enter the bubble, a minute before youre inside, a copy of you appears that is already inside
when you leave the bubble, a minute before you leave a copy of you appears outside of the bubble.
however theres an error, if you can see through the bubble border you can spectate the behavior of your future self and if you dont behave the same in the next minute (when you leave the bubble) there will be an inconsistency which means those two "you"'s weren't exactly same and actually were different objects with different behaviors
but hey that inconsistency error happens with most time travel experiments

Pingohits wrote:

This also brings up a question:
What would happen to objects that lie on the border, between the city and the outside?

isn't the border supposed to be unlimitedly thin? if it actually has thickness you have to specify how the time behaves inside the border

Pingohits wrote:

What would happen if a person were to extend his hand outside of the bubble, but retain their body within?

according to my previous theory the hand would stick outside of the bubble a minute before you would stick it out from the inside
and when you would stick it out (a minute after it's already been sticking out) then the part that you pushed into the border would just kind of disappear
i could make a picture in paint explaining that but im too lazy

Sensei1, Ratburntro44, kubapolish, Pingohits, KyYay

Pingohits · 2016-10-03 00:22:55

@maxi reached my woot count so here is a verbal woot

also your comments:

maxi123 wrote:

the way i look at it, when you enter the bubble, a minute before youre inside, a copy of you appears that is already inside
when you leave the bubble, a minute before you leave a copy of you appears outside of the bubble.

good, good, i like how you think

maxi123 wrote:

pingohits wrote:
This also brings up a question:
What would happen to objects that lie on the border, between the city and the outside?
isn't the border supposed to be unlimitedly thin? if it actually has thickness you have to specify how the time behaves inside the border

that's the point; if the border was unlimitedly thin, what would happen? would the object agree to the physical laws on the outside of the the bubble, or to the inside? or would it somehow agree to both, or agree to neither?

maxi123 wrote:

i could make a picture in paint explaining that but im too lazy

get a good night's sleep and consider making a picture tomorrow

TaskManager · 2016-10-03 15:06:18

Pingohits wrote:

that's the point; if the border was unlimitedly thin, what would happen? would the object agree to the physical laws on the outside of the the bubble, or to the inside? or would it somehow agree to both, or agree to neither?

if the border's unlimitedly thin then there can't be any space in the border itself
there's only inside of the bubble and outside of the bubble

Pingohits wrote:

get a good night's sleep and consider making a picture tomorrow

okay fine, here you go, a picture explaining my previous thoughts:

maxi123 wrote:

according to my previous theory the hand would stick outside of the bubble a minute before you would stick it out from the inside
and when you would stick it out (a minute after it's already been sticking out) then the part that you pushed into the border would just kind of disappear

▼please dont hate for poor hand quality, also the black borders are the borders between the images

EDIT:

Pingohits wrote:

that's the point; if the border was unlimitedly thin, what would happen? would the object agree to the physical laws on the outside of the the bubble, or to the inside? or would it somehow agree to both, or agree to neither?

oh i think i understood now what do you mean
well i think the part of the object that's outside would agree to the outside physical laws and the part that's inside would agree to the inside physical laws

Pingohits

Pingohits · 2016-10-03 16:09:38

@maxi in response to your hand theory:

wow that's pretty neat, and seems to make the most sense

so what i understood was, a minute before you stick your hand out, you will see a copy of your hand outside the border

and when you get there, a minute has already passed, and you perform the action

TaskManager

TaskManager · 2016-10-03 16:25:37

Pingohits wrote:

so what i understood was, a minute before you stick your hand out, you will see a copy of your hand outside the border
and when you get there, a minute has already passed, and you perform the action

yes, exactly

skullz17 · 2016-10-03 21:54:42

maxi, I feel like your theory is inconsistent in the rules it uses. When entering the bubble, you treat the inside as if it is the future which we are observing from the past, so we see things appear as they would in the future. However, when leaving the bubble, you treat the bubble like a portal that sends us into the past. We are not observing what things look like in the past when we look outside the bubble, and when we put our hands through, we are not observing the hands as they would be in the past. We are throwing them into the past and observing the present.

Into the bubble -> observing the future, and then being transported to the observed position
Out of the bubble -> observing the present, if things that went through the bubble were transported to the past

If we observed the present when going into the bubble, it would be like the paradox in the first post. We wouldn't appear inside the bubble immediately because it doesn't happen until a minute later. If we observed the past when going out of the bubble, again it would be a paradox. This is exactly what pingohits described in the first post. You wouldn't appear outside until a minute later, because outside is in the past and the event of you exiting the bubble hasn't happened yet. It seems like you have taken two different rules, and removed the paradoxical parts.

Pingohits · 2016-10-03 23:30:46

on a completely unrelated note, i was thinking of sharing this post with a larger audience, anyone have some sort of forum or r/something to recommend?

MBlood · 2016-10-03 23:41:29

reddit i guess

Kaslai · 2016-10-04 01:23:30

There are a few ways to approach this. First, I want to point out that the ball appearing to teleport is the only thing which makes this "impossible" (beyond the whole minute in the future thing).

If the ball absolutely must teleport, then there are some crazy 11th dimension shenanigans going on and I don't have enough letters behind my name to even begin to explain such behavior.

If the ball doesn't have to teleport, then the ball could appear to be rolling inside the bubble a minute before it's thrown in. That way, the timeline is relatively preserved, however this would clearly indicate that we have no free will, as everything is predetermined.

However, we should take this one step further. Physical objects aren't the only things which are governed by the flow of time. Radiation is affected equally, so it would stand to reason that when you throw the ball into the bubble, it appears to those in the bubble a minute before it's thrown in from the outside. However, light must bounce off of the ball, which appears outside the bubble a minute before the ball appears inside the bubble. That means an outside observer would see the light from the ball inside the bubble immediately when it gets thrown in (not before or after) at the location you would expect it to be with a normal trajectory. The ball's trajectory would look totally normal to observers on either side of the bubble's wall.

Essentially, every transition one way through the bubble is canceled out by a transition the other way. Physical object goes in, light radiation comes out. Time wouldn't actually appear to be disjointed, either from the inside or the outside, since any changes in the world state have an inverse change in the observation mechanism used to view the change, effectively resulting in nothing appearing to be out of the ordinary. In fact, we could be surrounded by these time bubbles right now!

Ratburntro44, TaskManager, Swarth100, KyYay

Pingohits · 2016-10-04 01:34:27

@kaslai

cool

Muftwin · 2016-10-04 02:05:32

This is a hypothetical city and therefore you can hypothetically make whatever you want to happen happen in that situation there is no inherently correct answer

TaskManager · 2016-10-04 12:54:54

skullz17 wrote:

maxi, I feel like your theory is inconsistent in the rules it uses. When entering the bubble, you treat the inside as if it is the future which we are observing from the past, so we see things appear as they would in the future. However, when leaving the bubble, you treat the bubble like a portal that sends us into the past. We are not observing what things look like in the past when we look outside the bubble, and when we put our hands through, we are not observing the hands as they would be in the past. We are throwing them into the past and observing the present.
Into the bubble -> observing the future, and then being transported to the observed position
Out of the bubble -> observing the present, if things that went through the bubble were transported to the past
If we observed the present when going into the bubble, it would be like the paradox in the first post. We wouldn't appear inside the bubble immediately because it doesn't happen until a minute later. If we observed the past when going out of the bubble, again it would be a paradox. This is exactly what pingohits described in the first post. You wouldn't appear outside until a minute later, because outside is in the past and the event of you exiting the bubble hasn't happened yet. It seems like you have taken two different rules, and removed the paradoxical parts.

I agree, I suspected there to be some inconsistency or error in my theory
I rethought it and made a little change:
Entering the bubble stays the same but when you exit you disappear into the border and appear out of it a minute later

EDIT: Also the hand thing needs a fix too, just swap the inside and outside around on the picture and it should look right

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2016-10-02 16:09:46

Time Bubble Paradox

#2 2016-10-02 16:17:55

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#3 2016-10-02 20:13:26

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#4 2016-10-03 00:22:55

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#5 2016-10-03 15:06:18, last edited by TaskManager (2016-10-03 15:09:32)

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#6 2016-10-03 16:09:38

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#7 2016-10-03 16:25:37

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#8 2016-10-03 21:54:42

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#9 2016-10-03 23:30:46

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#10 2016-10-03 23:41:29

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#11 2016-10-04 01:23:30

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#12 2016-10-04 01:34:27

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#13 2016-10-04 02:05:32

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

#14 2016-10-04 12:54:54, last edited by TaskManager (2016-10-04 12:56:58)

Re: Time Bubble Paradox

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