A Code of Conduct and The Council

Different55 · 2016-08-22 19:08:26

I mean this is kind of exactly what the council will be. Tards yelling at each other until they agree.

Bobithan · 2016-08-22 19:33:08

Different55 wrote:

I mean this is kind of exactly what the council will be. Tards yelling at each other until they agree.

I'd warn you for flaming but due to our form of government I really can't do anything about it so I'm going to make a snarky post instead.

hummerz5, Pingohits, Koya, sthegreat, TaskManager, Minimania

hummerz5 · 2016-08-22 19:40:57

Different55 wrote:

I mean this is kind of exactly what the council will be. Tards yelling at each other until they agree.

Well I'd like to think that's an exaggeration, but that's basically how any discussion goes, if it requires a decisive outcome.

Dazz · 2016-08-27 13:01:12

This is a great idea.
1-0.
I'm waiting for the community to create their own council now.
1-1.
Any presidential candidates?

Different55 · 2016-08-27 13:26:21

The council is going to fail so hard on another website. Trello is working against discussion while the council is supposed to be nothing but discussion. You guys have no reason to use trello over the forums except, like towel said, "B-BUT I LIKE TRELLO."

Towel, you said you don't exactly see the point of dedicating a whole forum to us arguing. We already have that. Twice. We have two mod subforums. And they're both located at the very bottom of the forum list so it's not like they'll get in the way. Just make the already existing warning discussion visible to the public and there's your council, now with 50% more sanity. Using a third party website just because you like it is an awful idea and it's going to kill the council before it starts. None of our users our going to just pop in on our trello. The point of the council was to make the minds of the mods visible. And you guys for some reason thought the best way to do that was by hiding away on some non-EE-related site that isn't clearly posted anywhere and that isn't advertised in any way. Good job guys.

rgl32, Shadow, Napakeun, TaskManager, Slabdrill, N1KF, hummerz5, AlphaJon, Ratburntro44, skullz17

Bobithan · 2016-09-10 06:05:23

this is a hella late response but whatever I literally just read your comment sorry for not reading the forums like a good little mod

Different55 wrote:

like towel said, "B-BUT I LIKE TRELLO."

Don't misquote me, ok? I gave reason beyond simply liking it, which is still a good reason imo, as I'd like to be comfortable with the medium I'm using, as its organization and general functionality fits the process of the council quite well.

Different55 wrote:

We already have that. Twice. We have two mod subforums.

Yeah, visible to staff. Normal users don't care about such things since most users actually are pretty good at being decent and following the rules. I wasn't talking about my experience with the forums but others. I'm not the idiot you make me out to be here.

Different55 wrote:

None of our users our going to just pop in on our trello.

Similarly, nobody's really going to pop in on an almost entirely dead and quite frankly boring subforum. The only people that are going to be looking at the council for any reason are the people that actually care, and anybody that actually cares, especially in a community like this, is going to know about it.

Different55 wrote:

The point of the council was to make the minds of the mods visible. And you guys for some reason thought the best way to do that was by hiding away on some non-EE-related site that isn't clearly posted anywhere and that isn't advertised in any way.

Don't you like, have access to the rules/warnings pages? Is it impossible to even mention the council in those places, and maybe provide a nice, visible link to it? I mean, everybody is supposed to read the rules, so putting the link there, where it quite frankly should've been from the start, would let everybody know about it. No big deal.

There's just as much of an argument to be made for introducing an entire subforum for other small things like staff contests and introductions. The council by design isn't even used that frequently since controversial decisions that warrant a discussion between the entire team are so few and far between. Having a subforum for something used on average once every other week is... a waste? We'd be sacrificing the convenience of trello for the convenience of having access to the council on the forum index. I don't really think that's important in any right.

ok

EDIT:
<Diff> users can post topics in councilforum
<Diff> BUT
<Diff> they can't reply
<Diff> only bring up new discussion topics for mods
<N1KF> :OO
<towwl> u know what
<towwl> i actually like that
<Zoey2070> sure w/e
<towwl> that's an actual reason to use the forums other than
<towwl> waaa other site

so nvm <3

N1KF · 2016-09-10 06:07:50

Using trello requires me to turn on google javascript and is laggier so I would prefer a subforum.

Onjit · 2016-09-10 09:25:58

Bobithan wrote:

... the convenience of trello ...

except trello is the exact opposite of convenient.

Ratburntro44

AlphaJon · 2016-09-10 13:26:16

Now that the Mod discussion subforum is open, I just have a question.
Why is it so that one can make new topics, but can't reply to any existing ones? I'm sure feedback from the community can be useful to find a solution for the discussed issue. Currently one would have to create a topic just to be able to post in that subforum.

Different55 · 2016-09-10 16:05:46

No idea. Before it was strictly mod only. If you wanted the council to ask something you'd have to ask a mod. Now you can ask the council yourself

Bobithan · 2016-09-10 17:00:07

Onjit wrote:

Bobithan wrote:
... the convenience of trello ...
except trello is the exact opposite of convenient.

I disagree. The voting and organization functionality in trello may as well have been made specifically for this purpose. Moving to a forum with none of that functionality is the exact opposite of convenient.

Anyways I'm getting two conflicting commands from both admins now. Let's keep in mind that there's already been a vote that decided to stay on the website, and diff made the decision to open the mod forum with pretty much no debate whatsoever.

Regardless I'm impartial at the moment, I'll just go where everybody else is. It's kinda cool to let users post concerns directly to the forum, but other than that I still don't see the reason for the move.

Processor

Slabdrill · 2016-09-10 17:25:56

Bobithan wrote:

Onjit wrote:
Bobithan wrote:
... the convenience of trello ...
except trello is the exact opposite of convenient.
I disagree. The voting and organization functionality in trello may as well have been made specifically for this purpose. Moving to a forum with none of that functionality is the exact opposite of convenient.
Anyways I'm getting two conflicting commands from both admins now. Let's keep in mind that there's already been a vote that decided to stay on the website, and diff made the decision to open the mod forum with pretty much no debate whatsoever.
Regardless I'm impartial at the moment, I'll just go where everybody else is. It's kinda cool to let users post concerns directly to the forum, but other than that I still don't see the reason for the move.

People don't want to see a vote, we want to see discussion.

Ratburntro44, N1KF

Ratburntro44 · 2016-09-10 18:37:59

the good parts of trello are pretty much available right here while the bad parts of trello are easily avoided by being here

Bobithan · 2016-09-10 20:21:12

12345678908642 wrote:

People don't want to see a vote, we want to see discussion.

Then I guess we should stop discussing decisions on IRC as well as probably a majority of discussion goes down there... The actual important thing is the opinion pieces of the mods which is plain and clear in trello

Ratburntro44 wrote:

the good parts of trello are pretty much available right here while the bad parts of trello are easily avoided by being here

For example..?

Ratburntro44 · 2016-09-10 21:15:52

being able to discuss, having it in view of everyone but used by mods

having to go to another site, annoying javascript, promoting voting over discussion, an interface that's awful for low window width users, less direct for users wishing to suggest something to mods (for an occasion where a user may have useful input) (or to show agreement, such as via woots on forums)

N1KF

skullz17 · 2016-09-10 21:55:11

Advantage of trello over forums: You get to use checkboxes instead of agonisingly writing the words "I vote for ___". Wow, you save so much time! Okay, to be fair, if you posted on the forums then your post would be longer than "I vote for ___", because you would explain your opinion. I guess you would save a lot of time which you would otherwise spend on some boring discussion which is obviously meaningless.

The actual important thing is the opinion pieces of the mods which is plain and clear in trello

You are basically implying that discussion is meaningless when it comes to decision making. That's ridiculous. When discussion takes place, everyone understands the issue better, can look at it from different angles and can make more informed decisions.

The other thing about trello is that it's on another site. That just sucks. It's not convenient at all. I have this crew in EE called Horizon, and we have a trello. No one uses it. It's just troublesome to stay active on an extra site. We also have a slack chat. I used to make sure slack opened on startup, and as a result I joined the chat every day, because I use my computer a lot. Similarly, having the council on the forums would mean mods would visit everyday, because they (hopefully) use the forums everyday. Of course you would expect them to treat trello the same as it's part of their job, but it's simply inconvenient. I really don't see how it has any advantage over the forums in terms of convenience.

I've seen "organisation functionality" mentioned as an advantage of using trello, but if I remember correctly, it's just categories and labels. Why would you need to categorise council cases? 1. They're not even gonna be that common, 2. Every mod should be offering their opinion in every case indiscriminately so there's no need to categorise them.

EDIT: @proc's compromise in the other topic,
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but how exactly is that a compromise? To me it just sounds like an additional feature that is compatible with both trello and the forums. Like the best option would be to have proc's idea + mod discussion for council cases.

EDIT2: Okay sorry I understand now. You don't want normal users to waste time with cases that aren't worth hearing. Well that change can easily be made to the forums anyway, I don't see why we need trello to do that for us.

Ratburntro44, Different55, Bobithan, N1KF, Yandax, Onjit, Napakeun, rgl32

Bobithan · 2016-09-10 23:12:20

Ratburntro44 wrote:

such as via woots on forums

I mean skullz's post was pretty good and I can't really argue with it but this actually seals the deal for me; I actually forgot entirely about woots.

I hate this idea that having voting discourages discussion though -- I really hope that none of you get angry when the council is largely just us writing opinion pieces along with our vote because most discussion regarding decisions is done in IRC anyways.

Ratburntro44 · 2016-09-11 00:05:46

honestly, when the point of it is transparency, the actual discussion being done on irc really is just another downside to the whole thing that reduces the transparency aspect

Bobithan · 2016-09-11 00:07:50

Ratburntro44 wrote:

honestly, when the point of it is transparency, the actual discussion being done on irc really is just another downside to the whole thing that reduces the transparency aspect

its a convenience thing. Regardless, its hard to avoid somebody at least mentioning an issue in IRC, and that usually just leads to a long discussion on it. we can't exaclt y ban discussion about the forum because... well... its the forum irc. but yes i do agree it kinda sucks but i still do think the ends are a lot more valuable than the means of these decisions.

Ratburntro44 · 2016-09-11 00:09:48

if logs of any significant IRC discussion were posted that would probably be a good thing too

Bobithan, Different55, Onjit, skullz17

Ratburntro44 · 2016-09-11 17:06:19

The council really isn't something the players need to check every day.

This is also more reason not to put it on another site. It's reasonable that users should be able to see when there is something new there without them having to be checking it every day. If it's on a different website, only users who do check it every day will actually see much of what is happening. Unless the goal is to not actually have anyone see the transparency.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#26 2016-08-22 19:08:26

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#27 2016-08-22 19:33:08

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#28 2016-08-22 19:40:57

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#29 2016-08-27 13:01:12

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#30 2016-08-27 13:26:21

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#31 2016-09-10 06:05:23, last edited by Bobithan (2016-09-10 06:22:48)

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#32 2016-09-10 06:07:50

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#33 2016-09-10 09:25:58

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#34 2016-09-10 13:26:16

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#35 2016-09-10 16:05:46

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#36 2016-09-10 17:00:07

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#37 2016-09-10 17:25:56

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#38 2016-09-10 18:37:59

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#39 2016-09-10 20:21:12

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#40 2016-09-10 21:15:52, last edited by Ratburntro44 (2016-09-10 21:27:14)

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#41 2016-09-10 21:55:11, last edited by skullz17 (2016-09-10 22:16:37)

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#42 2016-09-10 23:12:20

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#43 2016-09-11 00:05:46

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#44 2016-09-11 00:07:50

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#45 2016-09-11 00:09:48

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

#46 2016-09-11 17:06:19

Re: A Code of Conduct and The Council

Board footer