American Dream

hummerz5 · 2016-09-01 19:33:07

Hiya. This somewhat limited question came up and raises some other questions, which I wonder about y'alls experiences. I should point out that, based on the title, this query is rather limited to people in the united states, sorry! Your input is valued as someone from the outside looking in, of course, but you might not care as much as some of the other issues.

1. What is the American Dream? I always interpreted these two words to simply mean that citizens of the United States have every ability to achieve whatever their legal goals, simply through diligent work. There are some logical exceptions like "well you can't just become president" but for intents and purposes, if someone wanted to move up in the world considerably, my interpretation of the American Dream argues that it's entirely possible.

AND NOW, if you agree with my interpretation, or would be so kind as to address my thoughts below,

2. Is my interpretation of the Dream still possible in today's world? Is social mobility, or perhaps monetary (?) mobility as forthcoming as the old belief entails?

I've got no idea as to the answer of #2. I live under a rock, basically, and I don't understand economic struggles of anyone.

Bobithan · 2016-09-01 21:49:03

Your definition is basically correct. Through hard work, anybody can make it, and the American Dream is to make it.

However, "hard work" doesn't mean anything anymore. A poor man, a simple laborer, struggling by on minimum wage just to get by is certainly doing hard work. He's doing 40+ hours a week of hard work to get just enough money pay the bills and put food on the table. In a lot of situations, this work gives him no room to try to better himself and his life to climb out of poverty. If in trying to find another job or to educate himself he loses his job, that screws him and his entire household over. He's in a rut. Hard work isn't going to get him anywhere.

The American Dream is dead. While it's certainly possible to climb the social ladder, it's much harder than many people make it out to be. Somebody born into poverty won't have nearly the same amount of opportunities an upper middle class person would to develop and capitalize on skills.

It's an idea used today by the rich and powerful to convince poor people to vote against their own interests. It's toxic hope.

sthegreat, imgood9

skullz17 · 2016-09-01 21:51:20

I'm not American but I have a decent understanding of the American Dream.
1. Same interpretation as you.
2. Yeah, if you marry someone rich. If we ignore that, it's probably possible but extremely difficult. If your parents aren't very wealthy, you're gonna grow up in a poor area, and you're gonna get a poor education surrounded by other poor people and their poor culture (which likely breeds crime). Perhaps if you do really well in school, it might be possible. But I think it's hard because of the kinds of people you're likely to become friends with and just your environment in general.

hummerz5 · 2016-09-01 22:10:03

Bobithan wrote:

However, "hard work" doesn't mean anything anymore.

So over the years since this ideal was widely distributed, the cost of living vs. the wages of a day's labor grew closer together?

skullz17 wrote:

If your parents aren't very wealthy, you're gonna grow up in a poor area,

I question if people necessarily have to be incredibly wealthy to still be in a well-off position. Interesting you raise crime as an issue. Deviance certainly brings another influence that might pull an individual away from the postulated goal: "American Dream."
Can doing "really well" in school be enough? I feel like that would start with the parents, as an individual might not recognize the correlation between hard work and better life terms until they've already established a personal comfort zone. Say they achieve scholarly success, can they get a good job with a diploma, given they don't have funds to head off to college? Or is that more available than I think?

Swarth100 · 2016-09-01 23:17:23

Social mobility is no longer a thing, and so is the American Dream.
Dead long ago it is now just kept as an unreachable ideal to motivate the younger generations:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc … me/399311/

And to those willing to contraddict: from how many different families have the US Presidents of the past ... 30 years come from? With the exception of Obama it has been the Bush and the Clintons (considering the most likely election of Hillary).

In brief: those who earn more will afford better education for their kids, and, even though there are exceptions, education and success are proportional to eachother.

Bobithan · 2016-09-01 23:59:12

hummerz5 wrote:

So over the years since this ideal was widely distributed, the cost of living vs. the wages of a day's labor grew closer together?

My grandfather was able to raise a family of 3 relatively comfortably with simple factory/janitorial jobs and a stay at home wife. Recently, I had to move out of my home state because of financial issues despite both of my parents working higher skill jobs than he ever did. From personal experience, I would say this is true.

Tomahawk · 2016-09-04 19:54:06

hummerz5 wrote:

Your input is valued as someone from the outside looking in

It always sounded to me like propaganda to encourage (successfully) migration to the USA by exaggerating the opportunities and benefits of working there, and to give the people an ideal they would continue working (literally) towards.

A big fully-detached house with a garage in the suburbs, where you live with your wife, dog and three kids, and everyone's happy - that's the picture that comes to mind.

I think the achievement of that dream was linked to the manufacturing boom in the US, especially around the time of the world wars, and there was no shortage of jobs for men to work in some kind of factory. With China and India now producing everything, it's a little more difficult to get rich by that route.

In my mind, the concept of "The American Dream" is connected with the slogan "Make America great again", and is only an ideal, not a reality or eventuality or definite attainable goal for anyone who works hard enough.

Processor · 2016-09-04 20:06:22

Eh. I don't think the US is any different than any other modern country is terms of people's ability to climb up the social ladder anymore. The term "American Dream" gives me an exclusivity vibe that doesn't really exist.

I feel like the AD mindset is more and more often used to justify one's own or other people's misfortune and makes people ignore what other external factors were into play. It causes people to be less likely to help each other out and disapprove of any socialist idea.

Bobithan wrote:

My grandfather was able to raise a family of 3 relatively comfortably with simple factory/janitorial jobs and a stay at home wife. Recently, I had to move out of my home state because of financial issues despite both of my parents working higher skill jobs than he ever did. From personal experience, I would say this is true.

Welcome to globalization! There's a lot of uneducated people in the world, so the low skilled jobs are going to earn you less and less as more people arrive in the job market.

Official Everybody Edits Forums

#1 2016-09-01 19:33:07

American Dream

#2 2016-09-01 21:49:03

Re: American Dream

#3 2016-09-01 21:51:20

Re: American Dream

#4 2016-09-01 22:10:03

Re: American Dream

#5 2016-09-01 23:17:23

Re: American Dream

#6 2016-09-01 23:59:12

Re: American Dream

#7 2016-09-04 19:54:06, last edited by Tomahawk (2016-09-04 19:55:23)

Re: American Dream

#8 2016-09-04 20:06:22, last edited by Processor (2016-09-04 20:07:29)

Re: American Dream

Board footer