Do we have free will?

Bobithan · 2016-05-29 04:55:04

Are you in control of the outcomes of the world around you, or are you simply along for the ride with the illusion of choice?

Unau, Sensei1, kubapolish, jonhvictor2004sonic, sthegreat

Harmonious · 2016-05-29 05:36:35

Nobody can control everything. No matter how prepared you are, somebody else might change your life for you. Ex: Some guy could a red light, straight into you. You can prevent outcomes of similar nature through preparation, however. Ex: Choosing a designated driver as to prevent D&D
So, you control a portion. Not everything.

Bobithan · 2016-05-29 05:55:33

For what I mean by being in control, I guess my main question, more specifically, is whether or not you believe in fate; that whatever happens was destined to happen since the beginning of time, even if you feel that you made a choice that changed the impact of a situation. So whether you choose to buy Chinese or pizza for the night, that choice that you made was actually meant to happen for a long time coming, you just didn't know it.

Anak · 2016-05-29 13:54:17

Imo if we can think of the different choices we can make in a situation, we have the ability to choose between them. Some things are guaranteed outcomes from chain reactions, but lots of things are down to choice or random events. You could say the fate even goes down to your thoughts, but woah, that's deep.

Sensei1 · 2016-05-29 14:18:51

I think we do not have a free will. I have thought about it many times, and I always end up with the same results:

1)If we have free will, it's either based on what we have learned an experienced or then its just completely random (aka we just randomly make the choices without thinking about it)
2)If it's based on what we've learned and experienced, then it kinda isn't free will.
3)If it's completely random it kinda isn't free will either...

I believe in determinism, this just makes the most sense to me

skullz17, kubapolish

mrjawapa · 2016-05-29 15:06:23

Fate isn't real. Life isn't a book.

And free will is close to non-existance. We are all slaves to society and nature.

Pingohits · 2016-05-29 15:13:25

four dimensional beings control us with strings

we are puppets of fabricated spacetime

ASSIMILATE

Sensei1

hummerz5 · 2016-05-29 15:42:48

Interesting you bring this up. I'm surprised no one acknowledges (even though we all realize it) there's no right answer; we can't know.

I lean towards the free will. Obviously, like Sensei's point #2... certain social constructs will lean us away from "true" free will. I'm not going to go kill someone because that'll reflect poorly on other life choices of mine (like dying early). Of course, that's not to say one can't. Less violently, a sociology example: marriages aren't entirely our decision; social classes noticeably limit the pool of choosing.

We don't know if everything has been decided or not. However, "Why should I care about X? Clearly I'm fated to be a lazy bum..." etc. is clearly just using the idea of fate to justify lack of action is bs. And the opposite is true.

Because it's indeterminate, actions based on the existence or lack thereof of fate are illegitimate.

sthegreat

Prodigy · 2016-05-29 16:29:02

The world is an illusion don't believe everything you see. What if this Forum was just an image or a dream. Think about everything before you do. What if the happy face is actually sad. Nobody knows.

Goldy301 · 2016-05-30 14:24:17

I don't think we have free will. If we do have it, does it come from us? Gods? Or does it naturally come? It's not possible to have free will, it's an inplausibility.

Anak · 2016-05-30 16:16:47

Those who believe in fate:
Do you believe that every possible choice and opportunity that could occur is mapped/played out for us? (Something akin to the multiverse theory?)

Yandax · 2016-05-30 16:40:08

I believe we do have a free will, but our choices are greatly effected by society and what is considered the social norm.

Hostage · 2016-05-30 18:33:55

we live in the matricks

we dont have a free will **** pls we're directed about everything if we had free will the world would be gud

git gud world,ur nub delete existence.exe pls

Zumza · 2016-05-30 19:55:56

To post or not to post? This is a free will.

skullz17 · 2016-05-30 21:33:28

Sensei1 wrote:

I think we do not have a free will. I have thought about it many times, and I always end up with the same results:
1)If we have free will, it's either based on what we have learned an experienced or then its just completely random (aka we just randomly make the choices without thinking about it)
2)If it's based on what we've learned and experienced, then it kinda isn't free will.
3)If it's completely random it kinda isn't free will either...
I believe in determinism, this just makes the most sense to me

This is literally my exact thought process. Mainly because that's how my brother explained it to me.

If you can repeat the same experiment with the exact same conditions infinite times, you should get the same results every time. If we call moment A the conditions before the experiment, and moment B the conditions after the experiment, as long as moment A stays the same then moment B should stay the same. We can say that moment B is caused by moment A, and is therefore determined and absolute. If we think of life as a collection of moments, then each moment just causes the next moment, and no moment chooses what it wants to be.

I think this rule applies to any variable, including human thoughts. Thoughts are caused by experiences, feelings, etc. meaning they cannot be free; they are dependent on external factors. If they weren't caused by anything, they would be completely random, which still isn't free.

Sensei1, TaskManager

Different55 · 2016-05-31 03:54:08

skullz17 wrote:

Sensei1 wrote:
I think we do not have a free will. I have thought about it many times, and I always end up with the same results:
1)If we have free will, it's either based on what we have learned an experienced or then its just completely random (aka we just randomly make the choices without thinking about it)
2)If it's based on what we've learned and experienced, then it kinda isn't free will.
3)If it's completely random it kinda isn't free will either...
I believe in determinism, this just makes the most sense to me
This is literally my exact thought process. Mainly because that's how my brother explained it to me.
If you can repeat the same experiment with the exact same conditions infinite times, you should get the same results every time. If we call moment A the conditions before the experiment, and moment B the conditions after the experiment, as long as moment A stays the same then moment B should stay the same. We can say that moment B is caused by moment A, and is therefore determined and absolute. If we think of life as a collection of moments, then each moment just causes the next moment, and no moment chooses what it wants to be.
I think this rule applies to any variable, including human thoughts. Thoughts are caused by experiences, feelings, etc. meaning they cannot be free; they are dependent on external factors. If they weren't caused by anything, they would be completely random, which still isn't free.

And what if the universe is probabilistic instead of determinstic? And even if it's still determined, random, or partly random, isn't it still your choice that you made? Sure you might be able to figure out what you would decide beforehand (or what you probably would have decided), but you still made the choice.

skullz17 · 2016-05-31 11:54:07

Different55 wrote:

And what if the universe is probabilistic instead of determinstic? And even if it's still determined, random, or partly random, isn't it still your choice that you made? Sure you might be able to figure out what you would decide beforehand (or what you probably would have decided), but you still made the choice.

I don't think it's a choice if it's determined, because there's only one possible outcome to that specific situation, and I wouldn't call that a choice. If it's random, then I guess you could say it's a choice but it doesn't come from anywhere so it's not really yours. But yeah you're right that the universe could be probabilistic but determinism makes more sense to me.

Pyromaniac · 2016-05-31 13:04:22

Ive been avoiding this thread, because like hummer said-

hummerz5 wrote:

we can't know.

.

I'd say there's no absolute answer. We probably dont have completely 'free' will, and our lives most likely aren't driven completely by fate.

Like other people said, society certainly affects the choices I make. For example- Even though I may want money, I'm not gonna rob a bank (because I've been told its wrong/i'll go to jail).

..And yet, people still do rob banks. People still murder. People still decide to vote for Trump (and I really dont mean this to be offensive/to get political in any way), even though mainstream media (and thereby, society) has been telling them to be P.C, and tolerant of everyone; something Trump is clearly not. However, this could go back to how that person was raised by their parents (who I suppose constitute a miniature society). Like if they were raised in an abusive home, they're more likely to be abusive when they're older (even though that sort of thing is frowned upon by "society").

So obviously society isn't an all controlling force of nature that gives us only an "illusion of choice", because if it was, I think it'd be a more "all or nothing" type of deal.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, a lot of our choices are determined by societies standards, but clearly we still can make our own decisions. I think its easy to use blanket words like "society", "free will", etc. to get our points across, but the reality is its probably a mix of everything, and we really have no way of knowing.

It also depends on whether or not you believe in a higher power. Even then, I'd still say (depending on the entity you believe in, I guess) that we have some semblance of free will. Take the God of the Judaic-derived faiths, for example. You might ask "Well why did he make man if he knew Eve was gonna eat that damn apple!?". Because in the story, He wanted them to make the right choice. He gave them a choice. Just because he (or any higher power) knows the outcome, doesn't mean that the choice isn't present.

Different55, N1KF

sthegreat · 2016-05-31 13:50:43

Different55 wrote:

skullz17 wrote:
Sensei1 wrote:
I think we do not have a free will. I have thought about it many times, and I always end up with the same results:
1)If we have free will, it's either based on what we have learned an experienced or then its just completely random (aka we just randomly make the choices without thinking about it)
2)If it's based on what we've learned and experienced, then it kinda isn't free will.
3)If it's completely random it kinda isn't free will either...
I believe in determinism, this just makes the most sense to me
This is literally my exact thought process. Mainly because that's how my brother explained it to me.
If you can repeat the same experiment with the exact same conditions infinite times, you should get the same results every time. If we call moment A the conditions before the experiment, and moment B the conditions after the experiment, as long as moment A stays the same then moment B should stay the same. We can say that moment B is caused by moment A, and is therefore determined and absolute. If we think of life as a collection of moments, then each moment just causes the next moment, and no moment chooses what it wants to be.
I think this rule applies to any variable, including human thoughts. Thoughts are caused by experiences, feelings, etc. meaning they cannot be free; they are dependent on external factors. If they weren't caused by anything, they would be completely random, which still isn't free.
And what if the universe is probabilistic instead of determinstic? And even if it's still determined, random, or partly random, isn't it still your choice that you made? Sure you might be able to figure out what you would decide beforehand (or what you probably would have decided), but you still made the choice.

iirc the universe is not deterministic on a quantum level, but I'm not a physicist so please don't quote me on that. Also, I don't know whether that would affect anything on a larger scale.

Anyways, if the universe is deterministic, we don't have free will because our thoughts are dependent on outside factors. If it is random, the choice is not "yours" so its not really free will. The only way to have free will is if it is non-deterministic and there is some kind of meta-physical "soul". Since that cannot be proven or disproven (probably), the best position (imo) is that we cannot know, so we should act as though there is free will, so people cannot hide behind excuses like "i murdered him cuz fate, itz not my falt". Also, I am not really comfortable believing there is no free will...

Swarth100

Gamemonger · 2016-06-06 01:07:38

If you give me some cash sure.

jbbill · 2016-06-16 17:17:42

In my opinion we dont have free will in some matters like when youre born how youre born if youre an orphan or if you have 3 tentacles etc
We cant decide who our siblings are or who our relatives are
What we have free will for is our actions our way of life how we treat each other how we make impacts on other people how we start a chain reaction which may strike the world from the surface to its core.
(Hey this might be a pretty good paragraph for a lecture no?)

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#1 2016-05-29 04:55:04

Do we have free will?

#2 2016-05-29 05:36:35

Re: Do we have free will?

#3 2016-05-29 05:55:33

Re: Do we have free will?

#4 2016-05-29 13:54:17

Re: Do we have free will?

#5 2016-05-29 14:18:51

Re: Do we have free will?

#6 2016-05-29 15:06:23

Re: Do we have free will?

#7 2016-05-29 15:13:25

Re: Do we have free will?

ASSIMILATE

#8 2016-05-29 15:42:48

Re: Do we have free will?

#9 2016-05-29 16:29:02

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#10 2016-05-30 14:24:17

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#11 2016-05-30 16:16:47

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#12 2016-05-30 16:40:08, last edited by Yandax (2016-05-30 16:40:24)

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#13 2016-05-30 18:33:55

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#14 2016-05-30 19:55:56

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#15 2016-05-30 21:33:28

Re: Do we have free will?

#16 2016-05-31 03:54:08, last edited by Different55 (2016-05-31 03:58:07)

Re: Do we have free will?

#17 2016-05-31 11:54:07, last edited by skullz17 (2016-05-31 11:55:00)

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#18 2016-05-31 13:04:22

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#19 2016-05-31 13:50:43

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#20 2016-06-06 01:07:38

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#21 2016-06-16 17:17:42

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